6. distillation - a long response

[Guest guest]

Kombucha Tea does not conform to the normal term logy used

in herbal products.

Kombucha " Extract " is not an extract but refers to the

simple pressing (extraction) of the kombucha mushroom into

what is commonly referred to as Kombucha " Drops " .

The reference to " drops " has been taken largely from

Guenther s book and the procedure described (IMO

:incorrectly) used by Dr Rudolph Sklenar in what Dr Sklenar

described as " D1 Drops " . D1 is ascribed to a homeopathic

preparation of a tincture at the first level of potenization

and has been precisely formalized by Dr Hahnemann in the

system of medicine he termed " homeopathy " .

A 1927 German Patent describes the process of creating a

wonderful remedy " Kombuchal " ( Full version online at

http://www.happyherbalist.com/german_kombucha_patent.htm)

.... prepare kombucha tea until a certain (unspecified pH)

acidity is reached and then by means of distillation (a

simple evaporation) the tea is reduced at which point

calcium is / or may be added. IMO, Sklenar used the

" Kombuchal " to create his D1 Drops and not the simple

pressed kombucha mushroom liquid.

The Kombucha House in Australia uses the " concentration "

created by the " Kombuchal " process quite successfully in

several of their personal kombucha products and achieve

quite good results. Bev, (and others) have noted success

with her Kombucha Manna Drops which follow (IMO) the process

described in Guenther s book. Pronatura sells both

kombucha extract and kombucha capsules that " follow the

original Dr Sklenar recipe " and is endorsed by Dr Sklenar

niece. So we have here several different process creating

significantly different products all with amazing beneficial

results.

Distillation, hydrosol, extraction and tincture are all more

narrowly defined terms. However with kombucha which is

already a liquid tea, (rather than a harder substance which

the above processes attempt to turn into a more useable

liquid) those terms are somewhat ambiguous IMO, more

applicable precise terms may be in the realm of alchemy -

which would be too far out for most people.

In my practice I begin with already fermented kombucha tea

and then distill - more accurately hydrosol, extract the

components. In the German Patent most of the acids are

extracted from the kombucha tea at that point. Here the

German Patent discards those acids as they seem to desire

only the concentrated remains. Which may then be used in

preparing D1 Drops or calcium added and used as a kombucha

" concentration " .

note: there is a kombucha company " BudhaTree " which sells a

concentrated KT that they claim is still biologically

active. Simple concentrations done at high temperatures

(over 103F) will be largely inactive.

A concentrated extract - or kombucha tea with the acids

removed in the distillation process and eliminated as noted

in the German Paten and claimed to be a powerful medicinal

remedy, seems IMO, to contain a contradiction. In Guenther

s research/opinion it is the acids which make kombucha

so wonderful. Guenther goes on to say that adding alcohol to

the pressed extract of the mushroom - which will kill the

biologically active kombucha - is worthwhile since it is

_only the acids_ that are important. Therefore one could

take the hydrosol (that which is evaporated) from the German

patent process and throw away the concentrated portion.

In my lab I use low heat vacuum distillation to extract

kombucha tea. Kombucha is truly wonderful and seems to work

in a great many ways as well as to offer an excellent medium

for herbal extractions as well.

Presently I am trying to determine how best to relate the

different end products of kombucha doing a lab analysis. My

biggest problem has been in trying to identify what to

identify.

The 3 major " remedies " (after KT)

1. the pure pressed extract. The mushrooms simply hugged and

squeezed. (100% biologically active)

2. the hydrosol/ a crystal clear distillation of the

kombucha tea (not active greatest concentration of acids and

water soluble KT)

3. the concentrated residue (Kombuchal) Biological activity

unknown.

I appreciate any suggestions and ideas.

What should I test for?

NOTE: it is only my opinion does not constitute anything in

regards to the process involved with such notables as

Guenther , Bev (Kombucha Manna Drops) Australian House,

Pronatura, or anyone else. It is only my intent to show the

differences that are in kombucha and my search for

understanding this miracle fungus - and I know, its not a

fungus )

Ed Kasper LAc. Licensed Acupuncturist & Herbalist

Acupuncture is a jab well done

www.HappyHerbalist.com Santa Cruz, CA.

original

message................................................

6. distillation

Posted by: " Adam " ada_smi@... ada_smi

Date: Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:59 am (PDT)

how do you distill kombucha?

make tincture?

[Guest guest]

Hi Bev. Your Kombucha Manna Drops as well as your devotion

to kombucha is a true gift. Thank you.

However, in Guenther's Book, my copy is the 8 th Edition

(1995) on page 78 (second paragraph) Guenther writes " ... I

suspect that the glucuronic acid contained in the

mucilaginous matter, viz. the jelly-like part of the

kombucha culture, is the significant substance. " earlier

(p.77) he states that one should press " nice young kombucha

cultures " . but does not elaborate. That is what lead me to

believe it is the acids in the kombucha that may be the

benefit. It may very well be the _Polysaccharides_ as you

respond but that is not the thrust of that particular

Guenther citations. One obtains more acids in a hydrosol

portion of a distillation.

Guenther reference to _Polysaccharides_ is in the next

paragraph and from that paragraph your statement is correct.

Except here Guenther refers to kombucha as " japonicum "

note: japonicum - without further elaboration - may be a

plant, bacteria or parasite. Further it commonly refers to

it as fungus. Ganordema/ Reshi/Ling Shi an actual fungus

which is a _Polysaccharides_and possibly the connection of

kombucha to " fungus " and " mushroom " and both demonstrating

incredible health benefits. The reference to kombucha as

japonicum are latter correct by Guenther yet many writers

already copied the information and passed it on and

contributing to kombucha " miracle fungus " and kombucha

" mushroom "

I would venture that the _Polysaccharides_ were what the

German Patent (1928) Kombuchal, were after. In their

distillation method, acids, that are water soluble and

water, were eliminated leaving more of the

_Polysaccharides_ behind. Creating (IMO) a kombucha

tincture and from that onto the homeopathic preparation.

[D1].

I have questioned the use of alcohol - as a preservative.

Kombucha tea or extract or tincture needs no preservatives.

There is a low risk of cross contamination while loss of

pro-biotic values. The benefit of alcohol may be more on its

ability to extract the Polysaccharides (which are not water

soluble) than any necessary preservative action.

It is also here that Günther reference to _glucuronic acid_

as the " key " and has lead many on more wondrous tasks.

>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Polysaccharides (sometimes called glycans) are relatively

complex carbohydrates.

They are polymers made up of many monosaccharides joined

together by glycosidic linkages. They are therefore very

large, often branched, molecules. They tend to be amorphous,

insoluble in water, and have no sweet taste.

Examples include storage polysaccharides such as starch and

glycogen and structural polysaccharides such as cellulose

and chitin.

Polysaccharides have a general formula of Cn(H2O)n-1 where n

is usually a large number between 200 and 2500.

Glycogen is the storage form of glucose in animals. It is a

branched polymer of glucose. Glycogen can be broken down to

form substrates for respiration, through the process of

glycogenolysis. This involves the breaking of most of the

C-O-C bonds between the glucose molecules by the addition of

a phosphate, rather than a water as in hydrolysis. This

process yields phosphorylated glucose molecules, which can

be metabolized with a saving of one ATP molecule.

The structural components of plants are formed primarily

from cellulose. Wood is largely cellulose and lignin, while

paper and cotton are nearly pure cellulose. Cellulose is a

polymer made with repeated glucose units bonded together by

beta-linkages. Humans and many other animals lack an enzyme

to break the beta-linkages, so they do not digest cellulose.

Certain animals can digest cellulose, because bacteria

possessing the enzyme are present in their gut. The classic

example is the termite.

Acidic polysaccharides are polysaccharides that contain

carboxyl groups, phosphate groups and/or sulfuric ester

groups.

Bacterial Capsule Polysaccharides

Pathogenic bacteria commonly produce a thick, mucous-like,

layer of polysaccharide. This " capsule " cloaks antigenic

proteins on the bacterial surface that would otherwise

provoke an immune response and thereby lead to the

destruction of the bacteria. Capsular polysaccharides are

water soluble, commonly acidic, and have molecular weights

on the order of 100-1000 kDa. They are linear and consist of

regularly repeating subunits of one ~ six monosaccharides.

There is enormous structural diversity; nearly two hundred

different polysaccharides are produced by E. coli alone.

Mixtures of capsular polysaccharides, either conjugated or

native are used as vaccines.

Bacteria and many other microbes, including fungi and algae,

often secrete polysaccharides as an evolutionary adaptation

to help them adhere to surfaces and to prevent them from

drying out. Humans have developed some of these

polysaccharides into useful products, including xanthan gum,

dextran, gellan gum, and pullulan.

In summary, thank you, my mind has opened new possibilities.

Ed Kasper LAc. Licensed Acupuncturist & Herbalist

Acupuncture is a jab well done

www.HappyHerbalist.com Santa Cruz, CA.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Re: 6. distillation - a long response

Posted by: " yoganandaom " OM@... yoganandaom

Date: Sun Jul 2, 2006 11:44 am (PDT)

Hi Ed,

Thank you for the information about distilling Kombucha tea

Hydrosols.

In his description of Kombucha Drops in his book, Guenther

stated that it may be the _Polysaccharides_ that persist

that may

account for the phenomenol success of using Kombucha Drops

pressed

from the Kombucha Colony, (not the tea), and preserved from

contamination with alcohol similar to what Dr. Sklenar used

and just

the way Kombucha Manna Drops are made.

Kombucha Drops, made that way, seem to have the same

benefits as

drinking Kombucha tea, with the exception of being a

probiotic aid to

the digestive system. Indeed there has been a lot of

research lately

that various Polysaccharides are useful for healing.

You might want to considere the Polysaccharide content in

your various

formulas.

Peace, Love and Harmony,

Bev