Re: Plants have feelings too !!

[Guest guest]

Almost all the animals humans eat are either herbivores/insectivores...

Dogs and cats are relished by few cultures...

Here is interesting episode; I would like to share it with you...

My schoolmates decided on a short trip to Bandhavgarh National Park in 1979

summer. My friend Naidu had a " Willis " jeep (actually it was his uncle's)

that carried all 11 of us to the park. If anyone has seen the roads in MP

(one of the reasons for the Congress wipeout in the current Assembly

elections) you wouldn't be surprised if I tell you we had 3 punctures

(thankfully Naidu carried 2 spare wheels) and it took us 8 hours to cover

the distance (167 kms)!

We reached Bandhavgarh in the evening at about 6 p.m. - too tired and

dehydrated... time for beer... lots of beer...

At that time Bandhavargh was not a fully developed tourist place (now it's

an international tourist destination along with Kanha) and there was only

one lodge - which to our luck was empty. This lodge had 4 rooms on the first

floor - we booked them all.

There were only 2 eating joints there then... we decided on eating in the

one just under our lodge...

A-la-carte? Ha ha!

Veg or non-veg dinner...

And the non-veg dinner would contain mutton...

Since there were no goats in the jungle we were hoping it would be

venison...

And the meat was excellent... juicy and well done...

So good was the meat that we decided we would repeat the same next day

(lunch)...

Lunch time (next day) we returned from the park... but were disappointed to

note that there was no non-veg option... so we decided to try out the other

" dhaba " across the street...

A-la-carte? Ha ha!

Only veg sir!

And that too Bottle-gourd!

Why?

Sir we don't get too much variety of vegetables (forget mutton, chicken,

fish) here!

But that fellow across the street served us good meat yester-night!!!

Ha ha! That was not meat - that was wild-dog!

Phhhhhhhth! But relished and digested... however - never again!

Ravin '82

[Guest guest]

Dear Ashok,

Here is NOT my rebuttal, because basically you have agreed with me on

all points.

Like I said, what you eat is decided by your tradition and upbringing.

You have repeated the same in a Hindu context.

<So a practising Hindu cannot (should not ) eat cow - that is a

nobrainer.>

<- there is way more illness linked to nonveg than veg - we all

know - red meat in particular- >

Yes. There may be more illnesses with non-veg diet exclusively. But is

there any study about the mixed diet we Indians usually have, i.e..

non-veg every week or so? Or are some vitamins and vital elements

easier to get with a mixed diet? I remember being taught in school,

and later EVEN in MGIMS that a mixed diet was the best diet!!! Also

remember that there are some illnesses which are exclusively linked

with Vegetarianism. As you live in a land where eating meat is a norm,

it is but natural that you see more meat related illnesses.

<- I think vegetarianism in Hinduism came with our evolution and

sophistication with increasing understanding of GOD and spirituality.

<- Exceptions for the warriors and the laborers were made/ or they

were not expected to turn vegetarian>

There you go contradicting yourself. It also demonstrates the Hindu

concept of Caste, where a certain class of people are considered

different from others on the basis of their work! That is considered

politically incorrect nowadays!

<- As a Hindu I understand vegetarianism as one of the ladders to

purification !!>

Here again you are repeating what I said about tradition and

upbringing.

<Second can you equate the agony of an animal being killed to a plant

being uprooted or plucking a fruit - Give me a break.>

This is a matter of perception and tradition. In Lincoln's time even

slaves were considered animals and treated as such. (American simile

used here so that Ashok can understand this better ) Times can

change, perceptions too!

<So it probably is not possible for all of us not to do any himsa at

all.....but shouldn't we start with doing the minimum possible ??>

Like for example, lets start doing surgery without killing the

microbes! After all they have a life too! Prabha will back me up on

this, if not on non-vegetarianism! How about banning all

antibiotics so that all the germs may live? (Please note that this is

a Joke! Otherwise some person who is intellectually challenged may

challenge me here!)

The fact is Ashok, that all species have been created by nature with

an inherent code fitted in their brain, and that code is SURVIVAL AT

ALL COSTS! So if tomorrow, Lions and Tigers multiply and threaten the

human population, (not a likely scenario), you will see all the PETA

activists demanding that the government do something about this menace

quickly!

So let me repeat what I said in my earlier mail. Religion and diet are

private things and best left as personal choices. Do not use religion

to prove points, please Ashok. Religion is the opiate of the masses

(Karl Marx) and asses (Kishore Shah). A Christian may counter your

argument that Jesus fed his followers fish and loaves. Abraham

sacrificed a lamb at the Lord's altar at the orders of the

angel (also mentioned in the Quran and Bible).

I am sure that I have ruffled a lot of feathers now. So lets start

with non-violence in emails first!

Kishore Shah

[Guest guest]

Dear Ashok,

There you go again, writing first and thinking later.

<What is this modern malady of ALLERGY to religion ?? ( I am

generalizing Kishore...nothing personal ) To talk about religion seems

to be taboo in many circles - it has become a 'touch me not topic' for

many , " private " as you say..>

Ashok, I am not allergic to discussing religion. What I am saying is

this. Religion can be used to prove anything! The problem with

religion is that it provides statements which cannot be challenged.

For example, in your mail, you say that when we say Cow is Gau mata,

we cannot eat it. I cannot challenge this statement, because if I ask

you why should you call Cow Gau mata, you will feel offended and

angry. Someone might write angry mails against me and even call me a

traitor! That is why I am against using religion in any argument. Ours

is a secular group, so if we use Hindu religion to prop up our views,

how can a non-Hindu respond?

<you got to be kidding if you tell me that religion itself is a

private thing.>

Religion may be a public thing, but its field is in the spiritual and

emotional realm. I thought we were discussing Non-veg on a scientific

platform. In science, Religion can have no place to prove points. Then

we would go back to the dark ages when Coppernicus was imprisoned

because he went against the Christian beliefs of that time that the

Earth was at the centre of things. So, if you say that you are a

vegetarian because you are a Hindu, I have absolutely nothing to say

to you. But when you say that you are veg because you do not like

hurting animals, then I ask you if you ever considered plant feelings

also, which you never seem to have heard of.

<I am a little offended by this Kishore...Just like we quote this guy

and that guy...whats wrong in quoting the holy scriptures etc etc...as

long as I don't criticize other people's religions..

After all who are we ? We are a product our environment, culture and

religious beliefs !!>

There we go again! Do not mix science with religion.

<And for Christ's sake...this is an MGIMS website...and if we don't

discuss the basis of vegetarianism here ...then where else would we

???>

I did not say anything about NOT discussing Vegetarianism. I just said

don't make it a religious issue.

<Religion is the opiate of the masses

(Karl Marx) and asses (Kishore Shah)>

Sorry to say....but that is why Karl Marx's communism went to

dogs...And I am sure that Russians are reviving their orthodox church

system after the collapse of communism...mark my words...China will

have to follow...Already it is practising what is called "

Capitalistic Communism " Even a liberal and secular country like USA

proclaims on every dollar bill that " In GOD we trust >

This is very interesting, Ashok! You think that Communism failed

because it did not believe in God? Do you seriously think that the

reasons were not economic and the policy of state interference? By

your line of thinking, the Islamic extremist states should be doing

even more wonderfully than all the world countries put together. They

even sacrifice their lives for their God! Or is there only one God,

and that is the American God, who protects Bush and makes the US

prosperous? Then lets all shed our Hinduism, Islamism Sikhism, etc and

say Jai Bush every morning, as a sure shot short cut to success!

<I would like a clarification - As long as there are no personal

attacks - isn't this a free and free for all forum - that is what I

gathered when I first started in this group - from things like 'fly in

the skirt' mails...!!>

Of course, dear Ashok. It is a free for all forum. And yet, sad to

say, only a handful are participating!

<If this site is restricted for humor only then no problem ....I would

love to be a silent reader..>

I am sure that you can never be a silent reader!

Here is a small story that I made up.

How the Grinch can never stop MGIMS egroup!

Lines of frown crowded over the forehead of Ashok. It was not due to

the polluted air of Chicago, though the air was getting worse

everyday. Today his worry was, how would his beloved egroup survive.

He loved a few simple things in life. One was his family. The second

was his beloved adopted country, the good ol' US of A. People

frequently criticised him about this love, but how could they be so

blind? It was a country which had welcomed him so open armed without

any reservations. He loved India, naturally, but the US was also up

there with it. But the third thing he loved was his good old MGIMS.

And now the egroup of his college was in trouble. No! The trouble was

not that someone was writing terrible things in it. Rather the

opposite! The trouble was that hardly anyone was writing at all! A

strange lethargy had griped his MGIMS egroup. No one bothered to

answer discussions. No one even welcomed new members, who wrote so

excitedly, expecting to be deluged by sweet welcoming messages.

Furiously, Ashok pounded the keyboard. Coils of bytes of data started

streaming out of his computer into the cyberspace. Ashok was as if a

man obsessed. He typed and typed tirelessly, so that his beloved

egroup would remain alive.

Coincidentally, at that same time, at exactly the opposite side of the

globe, there was a guy in Pune with exactly the same thoughts. In

fact, if a line were drawn from Ashok to this guy, it would have

passed exactly through the centre of the earth.

The Pune guy wiped sweat from his brow and returned with a vengeance

to his keyboard. Soon kilometres of coils of data started streaming

out of that computer in Pune. He wondered if his puny efforts would

help keep the group alive, or would it all be in vain? But like the

charge of the Light Brigade, he did not question why. He just did the

job.

The coils of data from Chicago, meanwhile, were snaking their way

across the globe, just as the coils of data from Pune were streaming

from the opposite direction. Suddenly, the two data streams came face

to face and banged against each other.

Now a wonderful thing happened. Instead of both stopping in their

tracks, these two coils started twining around each other and rose up

as a giant double helix, surging up and even further. Ashok looked up

and stared in amazement at this wonderful sight. The guy in Pune was

also stunned by the beauty of the two coils snaking around each other

in a double helix.

Then, almost artistically, the double helix split vertically and grew

off shoots to form two double helices. These again split and formed

four, and so on and so forth.

Tears of joy crowded in two pairs of eyes as they saw this beautiful

splitting and recombining and new synthesis. Their egroup was saved.

Thank the Lord. Now they need not worry. The whole thing had become

self sustaining!

Kishore Shah 1974

[Guest guest]

Dear Kishore,

(The Grinch(?)) " Instead of both stopping in their tracks, these two coils

started twining around each other and rose up

as a giant double helix, surging up and even further " ...

Have you ever seen Cobras mating? Absolutely the same as above...

Ravin '82