Guest guest Posted February 1, 1999 Report Share Posted February 1, 1999 >We are exploring the benefits vs. the repercussions of employing a massage >therapist. If anyone now employs a massage therapist, please inform us of >your billing practices (i.e., Medicare, BC/BS, Workers Comp, etc. ). > >Also, does a PT have to sign off on all services performed by the massage >therapist, and what regulation mandates this polocy? > >Thanks in advance for your comments. > > Apts, PT, OCS Dear - You need to contact your state PT board to see if it is legal to use and bill for a massage therapist to provide PT services. It would not, for example, be legal in NY. They should also be able to tell you what supervisory and documentation requirements exist, if it is allowed. Beyond that, individual payers may or may not reimburse for it depending on their own policies, even if it is legal. Laurie Walsh, PT, Esq Daemen College > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 1999 Report Share Posted February 2, 1999 We have a massage therapist who treats OP with " nonmedical massage " on a strictly cash basis. She also treats a few IP on our psych unit as part of the PT program and is billed as Connective Tissue Technique under the direct supervision of a PT. I don't know what our reimbursement is for this. Deering Rush North Shore MC Skokie, IL ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 1999 Report Share Posted February 2, 1999 I utilize Massage therapists as PT aides where they work under the direct supervision of the PT. Reimbursement for massage has been limited, and in many cases (no-fault and WC) denied altogether. Some massage therapists are now trained in myofascial release and other soft tissue techniques most commonly used in PT (which brings up a practice act issue-- a topic for another conversation), and the clinics bill 97140 Manual Therapy. Other clinics lease space to a massage therapist and the therapist offers their services for cash. This reduces overhead expenses for the clinic, they avoid paying the MT a salary, and the therapist keeps all the revenue. I have not found this to be a big money maker, but rather a service offered to the patient. Massage Therapist We are exploring the benefits vs. the repercussions of employing a massage therapist. If anyone now employs a massage therapist, please inform us of your billing practices (i.e., Medicare, BC/BS, Workers Comp, etc. ). Also, does a PT have to sign off on all services performed by the massage therapist, and what regulation mandates this polocy? Thanks in advance for your comments. Apts, PT, OCS ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 1999 Report Share Posted February 2, 1999 Is there a code for Connective Tissue Technique, and / or is reimbursment better than simply billing for Massage? >>> 02/02 9:43 AM >>> We have a massage therapist who treats OP with " nonmedical massage " on a strictly cash basis. She also treats a few IP on our psych unit as part of the PT program and is billed as Connective Tissue Technique under the direct supervision of a PT. I don't know what our reimbursement is for this. Deering Rush North Shore MC Skokie, IL ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 1999 Report Share Posted February 2, 1999 We use code 97140 (manual therapy techniques) to specify that it is part of the PT plan of care, not " just massage " . ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 1999 Report Share Posted February 3, 1999 Hmm - you may be tight... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 1999 Report Share Posted February 13, 1999 I think that 's, Don's and everyone else's message regarding the use of massage therapists is right on target. It should be physical therapists and assistants that consumers should be seeing first for musculoskeletal pain related problems first and not massage therapists. These people probably have muscular aches and pains due to muscle imbalances, leg length differences, muscle weakness or postural problems. None of which a massage therapist is capable of observing. But, let's not stop at massage therapists but at the continued overutilization of PT techs. I have a real problem when a clinic has more techs than licensed personnel. What kind of message do we send to consumers when we allow techs do the majority of the treatments instead of the PT, PTA, OT or COTA? Why do we continue to graduate such highly trained professionals if we are just going to allow techs to handle the treatments? I have written messages in the past which have received very little response. I hope to receive a better response this time around. Kim Longoria, PT Warm Springs Rehab San , Texas ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 1999 Report Share Posted February 13, 1999 Mr. Zylks offers a typical response that certainly deserves some attention and discussion. Does everyone out there agree with his interpretation? I agree that revenue streams are important, but I think there is a much bigger professional issue here. As an academic chair, I am faced with an almost certainty that our new graduates will need to function in " nontraditional " settings. Health and wellness centered care mostly deal with clients who are without referrals from physicians. How do we even consider role modeling to students a physical therapist's function in such vital areas of our health care environment when virtually all settings would necessitate us practicing in violation of our respective state practice acts? If Mr. Zylk's comments are accurate, then the MD referral situation with which many of us are dealing prohibits us from applying our skills and knowledge in such environments. Yet we know that others with much less training than PT's have unimpeded access to these clients. What do physical therapists have to do to have access to these clients in states where the MD referral is required? As those of us wait for what seems an eternity for states to change the referral laws, does anyone out there know of a clever way of getting around this restriction? Has anyone even questioned Mr. Zylk's interpretation? Send reply to: ptmanageregroups Date sent: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:38:42 -0600 Organization: South Texas Sports Medicine To: ptmanageregroups Subject: Re: Massage Therapist > > --------------7B7DEF61553296C1ACC8263C > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset= " us-ascii " > content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > It seems to me the purpose of offering the service of a massage > therapist would be to provide a service for individuals without a > medical diagnosis nor doctor referral. These individuals just want the > relaxing benefits of a massage in a reputable setting. It also seems to > me that in Texas in particular, the the P.T. or P.T.A. would have to > have a referral or become certified as a massage therapist to provide > that type of service. Otherwise, they would be performing " physical > therapy " without a referral. If you are not trying to create another > revenue center and just want someone to do massage for patients, then I > agree you need to do that with existing or new professional staff. > > Thanks > > Don Zylks, Ph.D. > > Kovacek wrote: > > > At 03:50 PM 2/11/99 , you wrote: > > > > > >> , I think the current job market for PTs and PTAs is poor > >> enough in most areas of the country that you could fairly easily > >> find a PTA (if not a new grad PT) who would like to fill that " slot " > >> you have or are thinking about creating for a " massage therapist " . > >> We need to stop shooting ourselves (the PT profession) in the foot. > >> When we hire ATCs, exercise physiologists and massage therapists in > >> our clinics to do " physical therapy " , we are promoting their > >> professions at the expense of our own. I know of some recent PTA > >> graduates who do a FINE job with massage who would like to have a > >> shot at a position in a PT/Rehab department/clinic, even if at a > >> salary that would be considerably less than the salaries we have > >> seen PTAs earn in recent years. Then think of the greater > >> versatility and usefulness of the licensed PTA! The very question > >> you ask would be mute if you hired a PTA to fill that position > >> instead of a " massage therapist " , as we are all more familiar with > >> our supervisory responsibilities with respect to a PTA, or should > >> be. Just consider this possibility. Contact your nearest PTA school > >> to see if the faculty doesn't have the names of several individuals > >> who would be interested in filling this " reduced salary, massage " > >> position. Tom Hester, PT, Tupelo, Mississippi > >> <l03010d04b2dbb9be444-@[205.232.33.138]> wrote: Original Article: > >> /list/ptmanager/?start=3139 > >We are > >> exploring the benefits vs. the repercussions of employing a massage > >> > >therapist. If anyone now employs a massage therapist, please > >> inform us of > >your billing practices (i.e., Medicare, BC/BS, > >> Workers Comp, etc. ). > > > >Also, does a PT have to sign off on all > >> services performed by the massage > >therapist, and what regulation > >> mandates this polocy? > > > >Thanks in advance for your comments. > > >> > > > Apts, PT, OCS > > Dear - > You need to contact > >> your state PT board to see if it is legal to > use and bill for a > >> massage therapist to provide PT services. It would not, > for > >> example, be legal in NY. They should also be able to tell you what > > >> supervisory and documentation requirements exist, if it is allowed. > >> Beyond > that, individual payers may or may not reimburse for it > >> depending on their > own policies, even if it is legal. > > Laurie > >> Walsh, PT, Esq > Daemen College > > > > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 1999 Report Share Posted February 13, 1999 In a message dated 2/13/99 3:37:50 PM Central Standard Time, Kimpt101@... writes: << What kind of message do we send to consumers when we allow techs do the majority of the treatments instead of the PT, PTA, OT or COTA? Why do we continue to graduate such highly trained professionals if we are just going to allow techs to handle the treatments? >> This is a GREAT point. It is one that Managed Care has been driving with for years. A Therapy clinic waters down the treatment for a reduced rate and the Whole Industry suffers the consequences. Now entire groups of Therapists are seeing their jobs dissappear and the industry is changing. Much like Real Estate (Location, Location and Location), Physical Therapist's are going to have to market their practices on the three most important concepts (Education, Education, Education). Like Dick Hillyer says, just my 2c. Jim Hall, CPA General Manager Rehab Management Services, LLC 222 3rd Street SE, Suite 306 Cedar Rapids, IA 52401 319/365-6384 jhall49629@... Note: Watch for my WEB page to be coming soon to a computer near you!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 1999 Report Share Posted February 13, 1999 I agree with you. In our inpt. dept. we have a staff of 18 PT's, 14 PTA's, and 7 techs. (One of our PTA's will complete a certified massage therapy program in May.) I applaud his desire to enhance his clinical skills and utilize them to benefit our patients. As someone else pointed out earlier, the majority of us have no strong desire to " do massage " . Given that, unless our perspectives change, and we are allowed the 1:1 time needed, I don't have an issue with someone already a part of our profession, with an interest, being given permission to use those skills. Our department feels safe in the assumption that we promote a strong professional mix as well as a variety of skills and different clinical interests within that mix, which ultimately benefits our patients. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 1999 Report Share Posted February 13, 1999 Its time we did something to protect our profession instead of running scared, becoming passive, and blaming foreign trained therapists or other disciplines. We have participated in the degradation of our profession in various ways. We need to hold our ground with managed care and with all payors. For example, when we know a payor will only authorize 3 or 6 visits and we know that our patient will need more than that, we should still document the need for more, request more, and fight for more from the outset rather than when the patient may be stuck awaiting additional authorizations in the midst of their care. In my opinion, it seems that these payors create policies based on their prior experiences (data in databases). So if we've broken down and gotten used to just asking for 3 because that's all we'll get, next time their actuaries create averages, they'll be basing those decisions on false information. By the same token, we've all learned that some people TRULY only need a few visits, and we should act accordingly in these situations. I just learned this week from a pharmacist friend that local managed care companies have had to raise their pharmacy reimbursement by 150% because the pharmacies were refusing to contract for the ridiculously low rates the payors have been dictating for the past few years. Maybe its time some of us did the same thing! Francie Behar PT Behar Physical Therapy Services Inc francie@... Re: Massage Therapist >In a message dated 2/13/99 3:37:50 PM Central Standard Time, Kimpt101@... >writes: > ><< What kind of message do we send to consumers when we allow techs do the > majority of the treatments instead of the PT, PTA, OT or COTA? > Why do we continue to graduate such highly trained professionals if we are > just going to allow techs to handle the treatments? >> > >This is a GREAT point. It is one that Managed Care has been driving with for >years. A Therapy clinic waters down the treatment for a reduced rate and the >Whole Industry suffers the consequences. Now entire groups of Therapists are >seeing their jobs dissappear and the industry is changing. Much like Real >Estate (Location, Location and Location), Physical Therapist's are going to >have to market their practices on the three most important concepts >(Education, Education, Education). > >Like Dick Hillyer says, just my 2c. > >Jim Hall, CPA >General Manager >Rehab Management Services, LLC >222 3rd Street SE, Suite 306 >Cedar Rapids, IA 52401 >319/365-6384 >jhall49629@... >Note: Watch for my WEB page to be coming soon to a computer near you!!! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 1999 Report Share Posted February 14, 1999 In a message dated 2/13/99 6:44:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, sfern@... writes: << I would like to see PT w/ direct access; I prefer working direct pay anyway. Is this a niche? >> There have been some interesting beginnings of discussion here on the boards these last few days; I'd like to add my .02 to the discussion. I do not believe that PT with direct access and direct pay should be a niche; I believe that physical therapists should be considered experts in management of functional impairment and disability, including prevention and wellness (as described in " The Guide to PT Practice " ) We should be able to demonstrate that expertise to consumers and as a profession, I believe we need to do whatever it takes to position ourselves this way. I believe that this must be done through involvement in our professional association, which I see as the ONLY resource we have that represents our interests as PTs. We will never resolve issues such as encroachment if we as PTs cannot demonstrate our value due to constraints on our practice ( such as referral requirements). Yet our most recent effort at Direct Access here in New Jersey was met by the attitude of " Why bother? " by many of our own members ( and the response we received nationally was that Direct Access has not had a significant impact in states that do have it). I believe that, in order to move the profession forward, we need a coordinated national effort to achieve Direct Access in EVERY state. This would be as beneficial to the states that already have Direct Access as those that haven't yet achieved it because it would level the playing field on a national level. This topic is expected to be discussed this year at APTA House of Delegates, and I expect it will generate much discussion. Personally, I am concerned about the survival of this profession without thoughtful, dynamic action on issues such as these. We cannot afford to continue to exist in isolation! Kathy Mairella VP, APTA of New Jersey ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 1999 Report Share Posted February 14, 1999 The key to Nation wide direct access involves not only a change in the State Practice Act but also negotiation with the third party payers. The client or patient can get direct access in many states but unless the third party payer is willing to pay for the services rendered by the physical therapist without physician signature, there will not be a substantial change in practice pattern. The states that have negotiated with the third party payers are ahead of the game. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 1999 Report Share Posted February 14, 1999 I think we as a profession may be trying to solve the wrong problem when we are faced with encroachment. There are plenty of shortcomings with our techniques and methods (in physical therapy) which SHOULD be where we focus our attention and efforts. We should be trying to upgrade our skills with a vengeance so that there won't be any question what professional should be the one of choice. We need to take frequent hard looks at what we do every day in the name of therapy and see how we can make it better! Carol McFarland MS PT OCS ---------- To: ptmanageregroups Subject: Re: Massage Therapist Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 2:38 PM Absolutely! And you wonder why we are in the straits we are in. Too many of our profession have thought that selling out to physician's services, hiring aides to do our work, extending our licences to all sort of " professional " personel would never hurt us. Those who have done so have weakened our profession. It's too bad that the current situation affects us all. nobody@... wrote: > , > > I think the current job market for PTs and PTAs is poor enough in most areas of the country that you could fairly easily find a PTA (if not a new grad PT) who would like to fill that " slot " you have or are thinking about creating for a " massage therapist " . We need to stop shooting ourselves (the PT profession) in the foot. When we hire ATCs, exercise physiologists and massage therapists in our clinics to do " physical therapy " , we are promoting their professions at the expense of our own. I know of some recent PTA graduates who do a FINE job with massage who would like to have a shot at a position in a PT/Rehab department/clinic, even if at a salary that would be considerably less than the salaries we have seen PTAs earn in recent years. Then think of the greater versatility and usefulness of the licensed PTA! The very question you ask would be mute if you hired a PTA to fill that position instead of a " massage therapist " , as we are all more familiar with our supervisory re! > sponsibilities with respect to a PTA, or should be. Just consider this possibility. Contact your nearest PTA school to see if the faculty doesn't have the names of several individuals who would be interested in filling this " reduced salary, massage " position. > > Tom Hester, PT, Tupelo, Mississippi > > <l03010d04b2dbb9be444-@[205.232.33.138]> wrote: > Original Article: /list/ptmanager/?start=3139 > > >We are exploring the benefits vs. the repercussions of employing a massage > > >therapist. If anyone now employs a massage therapist, please inform us of > > >your billing practices (i.e., Medicare, BC/BS, Workers Comp, etc. ). > > > > > >Also, does a PT have to sign off on all services performed by the massage > > >therapist, and what regulation mandates this polocy? > > > > > >Thanks in advance for your comments. > > > > > > Apts, PT, OCS > > > > Dear - > > You need to contact your state PT board to see if it is legal to > > use and bill for a massage therapist to provide PT services. It would not, > > for example, be legal in NY. They should also be able to tell you what > > supervisory and documentation requirements exist, if it is allowed. Beyond > > that, individual payers may or may not reimburse for it depending on their > > own policies, even if it is legal. > > > > Laurie Walsh, PT, Esq > > Daemen College > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 1999 Report Share Posted February 14, 1999 I agree that a long term goal is direct access with third party payers on board. That's an additional battle for another day. Right now I would settle for access to clients who wish to pay out of pocket for services such as fitness, wellness, exercise, etc., something that many physical therapists are presumably not allowed to do without MD referral while others, with arguably less training (e.g., personal trainers, massage therapists, etc.) are allowed free access. There are personal trainers that I know who charge $60-90 per hour, cash. There's a growing market out there for such services, and if we as physical therapists wait until we have cut some deal with 3rd party payers, it will continue to slip away. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 1999 Report Share Posted February 14, 1999 I know this sounds naive and idealistic, but what about also creating a demand for our services WITHIN the medical profession? Many people will still go by what is " recommended by doctors " . And I still believe even though there are passing fads which can shake our confidence (such as the personal trainers and massage therapists), we still have our foundation in the medical profession which can be our base of support which they don't have. ---------- > > To: ptmanageregroups > Subject: Re: Massage Therapist > Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 1:31 PM > > I agree that a long term goal is direct access with third party payers on > board. That's an additional battle for another day. Right now I would settle > for access to clients who wish to pay out of pocket for services such as > fitness, wellness, exercise, etc., something that many physical therapists > are presumably not allowed to do without MD referral while others, with > arguably less training (e.g., personal trainers, massage therapists, etc.) > are allowed free access. > > There are personal trainers that I know who charge $60-90 per hour, cash. > There's a growing market out there for such services, and if we as physical > therapists wait until we have cut some deal with 3rd party payers, it will > continue to slip away. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 1999 Report Share Posted February 14, 1999 Why not both? Why have an either or attitude? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 1999 Report Share Posted February 14, 1999 If you're replying to my post, I think both is a great idea, but maybe now you are sounding a little idealistic? I can't think of another professional group that is both autonomous and an integral part of a team. Can you give me an example? ---------- > > To: ptmanageregroups > Subject: Re: Massage Therapist > Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 3:06 PM > > Why not both? Why have an either or attitude? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 1999 Report Share Posted February 15, 1999 As reimbursement continues to get driven down, one trend I have seen here is a REDUCTION in the use of techs. After all, when you are capitated and the capitated amount only covers 1-3 visits, you don't want a technician doing the care, you need a competent and aggressive PT or OT. In one clinic near here that was 50% capitated last year, they had NO techs and only PT's (no PTA's either). I have also reduced drastically the number of techs in my inpatient departments. We used to have 10 for PT and OT, now we have two and sometimes only one. Mark Dwyer, MHA, PT Kansas City, Kansas mdwyer1@... Re: Massage Therapist >I think that 's, Don's and everyone else's message regarding the use of >massage therapists is right on target. It should be physical therapists and >assistants that consumers should be seeing first for musculoskeletal pain >related problems first and not massage therapists. These people probably have >muscular aches and pains due to muscle imbalances, leg length differences, >muscle weakness or postural problems. None of which a massage therapist is >capable of observing. >But, let's not stop at massage therapists but at the continued overutilization >of PT techs. I have a real problem when a clinic has more techs than licensed >personnel. >What kind of message do we send to consumers when we allow techs do the >majority of the treatments instead of the PT, PTA, OT or COTA? >Why do we continue to graduate such highly trained professionals if we are >just going to allow techs to handle the treatments? >I have written messages in the past which have received very little response. >I hope to receive a better response this time around. >Kim Longoria, PT >Warm Springs Rehab >San , Texas > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 1999 Report Share Posted February 15, 1999 Esther, In relation to your pharmacy news below, I can see why that happens for two reasons: 1. Patients cannot go elsewhere to get pharmaceuticals. The pharmacies know that if they band together, they can get some market power and present a stronger negotiating force to MCO's. 2. Don't send lightning bolts my way for saying this, but patients can to multiple providers to get " physical therapy " --> PT's, massage therapists, ex. physiologists, chiropractors, physicians, etc. It is harder for us to negotiate if there are so many who can claim to provide some form of physical therapy. Also, we are still fractured in our negotiations with MCO's. If each clinic negotiates contracts without being in some type of collective bargaining group, then the MCO's will continue to play us off against each other. Clinics that are part of large groups (i.e., alliances, mergers, etc.) will have a stronger position at the table. We should not compare ourselves to pharmacists, but we can learn from their success. We need to promote ourselves as the preeminent providers of PT services, and we should work together more to secure the payment we deserve. If we don't do the latter, we are essentially giving the MCO's the ammunition to shoot us with. APTA needs to keep up the heat on HCFA and the Congress/White House to keep those payment rates sane (while not everyone agrees with everything APTA does, it is our only representative and lobbying body). And if reimbursement continues to decline, the freedom with which we treat our patients will be severely hampered since we have to make at least enough money to stay in business. Mark Dwyer, MHA, PT Kansas City, KS mdwyer1@... Re: Massage Therapist > > >>In a message dated 2/13/99 3:37:50 PM Central Standard Time, >Kimpt101@... >>writes: >> >><< What kind of message do we send to consumers when we allow techs do the >> majority of the treatments instead of the PT, PTA, OT or COTA? >> Why do we continue to graduate such highly trained professionals if we are >> just going to allow techs to handle the treatments? >> >> >>This is a GREAT point. It is one that Managed Care has been driving with >for >>years. A Therapy clinic waters down the treatment for a reduced rate and >the >>Whole Industry suffers the consequences. Now entire groups of Therapists >are >>seeing their jobs dissappear and the industry is changing. Much like Real >>Estate (Location, Location and Location), Physical Therapist's are going to >>have to market their practices on the three most important concepts >>(Education, Education, Education). >> >>Like Dick Hillyer says, just my 2c. >> >>Jim Hall, CPA >>General Manager >>Rehab Management Services, LLC >>222 3rd Street SE, Suite 306 >>Cedar Rapids, IA 52401 >>319/365-6384 >>jhall49629@... >>Note: Watch for my WEB page to be coming soon to a computer near you!!! >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 1999 Report Share Posted February 15, 1999 , I agree with you totally. There is a huge untapped market out there, and it will likely grow as insurance plans continue to be more restricted. We need direct access nationwide in order to at least access this private market. Until then, those that do not have it (direct access) will continue to watch as the Ex. Physiologists, massage therapists, etc. run past us and win the race. This is not to say we should not keep up our efforts in working with private insurers in securing realistic reimbursement rates and in educating them on the benefits of PT. Mark Dwyer, MHA, PT Kansas City, KS mdwyer1@... Re: Massage Therapist >I agree that a long term goal is direct access with third party payers on >board. That's an additional battle for another day. Right now I would settle >for access to clients who wish to pay out of pocket for services such as >fitness, wellness, exercise, etc., something that many physical therapists >are presumably not allowed to do without MD referral while others, with >arguably less training (e.g., personal trainers, massage therapists, etc.) >are allowed free access. > >There are personal trainers that I know who charge $60-90 per hour, cash. >There's a growing market out there for such services, and if we as physical >therapists wait until we have cut some deal with 3rd party payers, it will >continue to slip away. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 1999 Report Share Posted February 16, 1999 In a message dated 2/13/99 10:40:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, rachet@... writes: << I DEMAND HANDS ON CARE FROM ALL OF MY EMPLOYEES AS WELL AS AFTER 5:00 PM >> You demand? Employees are adult professionals, not children. Reasoning, discussing, compromising....are adult choices. Secondly, " SHOUTING " online (all caps, if you are unfamiliar with this) is considered bad form. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 1999 Report Share Posted February 16, 1999 Mark - I appreciate your comments, and i promise i won't send lightning bolts in your direction. In fact, i was involved in multidisciplinary MCO negotiations several years back, and that was exactly what was happening. Providers accepted rates lower than their " bottom lines " rather than " lose " (isn't *that* an oxymoron?) the contract with the payor. I guess my point, though obviously not clear was exactly yours....we're all in this together (or out, eventually). There are still those in the therapy communities who are not willing to band together. Whether it be APTA, provider networks, etc., cooperation is the new name of the game. Our only true competition is inadequate knowledge of the marketplace, and poor public awareness. PS....i think this listserve is an excellent starting point. Thanks ! Francie Behar francie@... Re: Massage Therapist >> >> >>>In a message dated 2/13/99 3:37:50 PM Central Standard Time, >>Kimpt101@... >>>writes: >>> >>><< What kind of message do we send to consumers when we allow techs do the >>> majority of the treatments instead of the PT, PTA, OT or COTA? >>> Why do we continue to graduate such highly trained professionals if we >are >>> just going to allow techs to handle the treatments? >> >>> >>>This is a GREAT point. It is one that Managed Care has been driving with >>for >>>years. A Therapy clinic waters down the treatment for a reduced rate and >>the >>>Whole Industry suffers the consequences. Now entire groups of Therapists >>are >>>seeing their jobs dissappear and the industry is changing. Much like Real >>>Estate (Location, Location and Location), Physical Therapist's are going >to >>>have to market their practices on the three most important concepts >>>(Education, Education, Education). >>> >>>Like Dick Hillyer says, just my 2c. >>> >>>Jim Hall, CPA >>>General Manager >>>Rehab Management Services, LLC >>>222 3rd Street SE, Suite 306 >>>Cedar Rapids, IA 52401 >>>319/365-6384 >>>jhall49629@... >>>Note: Watch for my WEB page to be coming soon to a computer near you!!! >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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