Re: Going out alone on Christmas

[Guest guest]

Norah,

I think you're assuming people to be more critical and judgemental than they

actually are. I doubt most people would care if you were dining alone. And if

they did, so what? If I had the money right now, I'd put on my best outfit and

head on over to the Paper Valley Hotel here in Appleton for the meal of my life.

Alone. What's more, I'd love every moment.

One thing you should learn, Norah, is that if you're doing no one any harm, you

don't have to justify your actions to anyone. Go out to a restaurant, alone, get

the best meal you can afford, and for crying out loud, enjoy yourself. And be

sure to let us know how it went.

Going out alone on Christmas

Normally if I don't have anywhere to go on Christmas day, I stay in and hide

so no one will ask me questions! (I know, I should volunteer at a shelter.)

Today I want to get outside. I even want to go to a restaurant that I know

is open, and I'd be going alone.

But I'm afraid of inviting stares or even pitying comments. I'm not feeling

sorry for myself, and hopefully no one will notice me, but I remember

another time I did this I got some sort of sad-eyed stares from people

waiting on me, and even questions about whether I was going somewhere later.

Even though I don't feel bad about not going somewhere right now, if someone

makes these comments I might start to feel bad. Would it be weird to ask

the waiter as they were seating me to please not ask any questions, or might

that might them act even more solicitous? Or maybe I should just stay in?

I'm also worried that if a neighbor is out going somewhere, they might ask

me. I guess I can just lie to them, but I get so tired of having to do

that, and having to hide in general if I'm not doing something on the

holdiay!

Does anyone here experience this?

Norah

[Guest guest]

<<<Today I want to get outside. I even want to go to a restaurant that I know

is open, and I'd be going alone.>>>

Lucky you! Everything here closed down yesterday and won't open until tomorrow.

I'd jump at the chance to go someplace -- there's nothing on TV but " Miracle on

34th Street " and " Pollyanna " and yours is the first e-mail to come my way in

hours upon hours.

<<<Would it be weird to ask the waiter as they were seating me to please not ask

any questions, or might that might them act even more solicitous?>>>

It would probably be viewed as wierd and it would call more attention to

yourself and to the fact that you're alone and to the fact that you're

self-conscious or otherwise uncomfortable about being alone.

<<<Or maybe I should just stay in?>>>

Don't you dare! You *must* go out and enjoy yourself. Think of the starving

children in Ethiopia...no, wait, that's the wrong one...um... think of those

less fortunate than you... no... oh! I've got it! Think of me sitting here

wishing Taco Bell were open! Go out and have fun and enjoy yourself doubly --

once for you and once by proxy for me, stuck here with Pollyanna and no Taco

Bell.

<<<I'm also worried that if a neighbor is out going somewhere, they might ask

me. I guess I can just lie to them, but I get so tired of having to do that,

and having to hide in general if I'm not doing something on the holdiay!>>>

Tell them you have plans. It's not a lie. You *do* have plans. You have plans to

go out and treat yourself to dinner! That's not a lie. You aren't required to

tell people *what* your plans are, just put on your best approximation of a

charming NT smile and say, " thank you for thinking of me, but I'm sorry I can't

go with you. I have other plans today. " If they get pushy about it, *they're*

the ones being rude.

<<<Does anyone here experience this?>>>

I'm afraid I don't really pay enough attention to wait staff to have any idea

what they're feeling or thinking. When it comes down to it, *you* could just as

easily feel sorry for *them* since they have to work on Christmas Day while you

get to enjoy a lovely dinner cooked for you, brought to you and cleaned up after

for you.

As for neighbors, family, etc. I don't have a lot of experience with them being

socially pushy since I keep so much to myself and live so far from my blood

relatives, but on the rare occasions when soemone does get pushy (like a woman

last week who kept insisting I *had* to drive three hours into the middle of

nowhere to stand outside in the snow and admire her labyrinth for the Solstice.

I told her that I have my own religious observances on the Solstice and she

insisted that I could do them at her house. I said that I always observe the

holy day with the members of my order. She said, " you're wiccan! There will be

plenty of Wiccans, come on out. " I said, " I'm not Wiccan. " She kept insisting

that my order would be fine without me and I said, " you find them an initiated

and ordained gnostic priestess to take my place. " She said, " what do you have to

do to be that? " I said, " It takes at least five years of study and intiations. "

Her face fell and she finally gave up when she realized that she couldn't very

well insist that a member of the clergy leave their church in order to look at

her labyrinth. (Never mind that my " flock " consists of me and one other person

and I'm not actually ordained. She was being so rudely pushy that my options

were to grow angry with her or give her an air-tight lie. She runs the only drum

circle in town so I chose the latter.))

Anyway, when someone gets pushy with me like that, I push back in one way or

another. I put in back in their lap or I get stubborn or even angry with them or

I flat-out tell them how rude they're being. Or, if it's a person I have to deal

with in the future, like the drum circle leader or a boss, I come up with an

air-tight alibi that may or may not be 100% true but I stick with it as if it

were. This is the hardest choice because you have to pick one that won't fall

through later. In my example, I *did* have religious Solstice plans, they *did*

involve other people, the other people (person) *are* initiated member(s) of my

order and I *was* in charge of some of the ritual. I inflated the number of

participants so she wouldn't insist that we could do our (very very very

private) ritual at her labyrinth (at the last minute, no less!) and I knew that

she wasn't likely to catch me in it because I was going to be home all day and

it was only a half-lie (and one of those cleverly evil NT sort of lies that my

partner has been teaching me about -- the ones where you never say an untruth

but you lead the other person to believe something that you haven't said.)

In the case of you going out to dinner, no lies are required. Anyone else with

an unwanted invitation can be honestly told that you have plans (and this would

be true even if your plans were to watch television and eat microwave popcorn!)

and the wait staff are there doing a job and don't merit your consideration

beyond being a polite customer. Don't let their attitudes ruin your holiday

dinner! For all you know, they're not feeling sorry for you having dinner alone,

they're feeling sorry for themselves having to work while you relax.

Have a lovely dinner!

[Guest guest]

Norah wrote:

><<<Today I want to get outside. I even want to go to a restaurant that I

>know is open, and I'd be going alone.>>>

and Sparrow responded:

>Lucky you! Everything here closed down yesterday and won't open until

>tomorrow. I'd jump at the chance to go someplace -- there's nothing on TV

>but " Miracle on 34th Street " and " Pollyanna " and yours is the first e-mail

>to come my way in hours upon hours.

I bought myself a take-out burrito on Monday specifically to enjoy

this evening. Even though I don't celebrate Christmas, it does

feel weird to have the " whole world " (in experiential terms)

doing so, all the stores/restaurants closed, etc., etc., and me

have nothing special about the day. That's why (in order to

prevent that minor weirdness from leading to any feeling of

depression) I planned ahead to have something special of my

own tonight.

Norah, I think it's fine to go out on your own. I would rather

get food to eat at home, but that's just my preference. I'm sure

there's nothing amiss about a single person eating in a

restaurant. It seems pretty elegant to me, in fact.

I had hoped to take a walk (on my own) today, but the weather

has been lousy. Not only rainy but very windy. Gusts up to 40

mph, which does not make for pleasant walking. The radio is

warning that we may have a major wind storm on Friday, with

sustained winds of 40 mph and gusts up to 60. Well, it may

never happen, so I won't worry about it now.

Jane Meyerding

[Guest guest]

>

> Does anyone here experience this?

There are actually places in my city that serve Christmas dinner to people

who don't have anyone to be with or anywhere to go at Christmas. I've been

going to such a place the last few years. I don't tell them " I'm not

welcome at my family's Christmas gathering " or anything. I just show up,

and I get fed.

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

Proud to be Canuckistanian

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

Norah and ,

I have often faced this dilemma myself. As a student living in London I once

felt so depressed about spending another night alone in a room I rented, I

decided to hit the town and wandered into one of the trendiest bars of

infamous Brixton and ordered myself a pint of beer (that's 20 fl. oz. or

568ml over here), but had nowhere to sit, so I just sat on the end of a

bench and claimed the corner of a table. No-body noticed or approached me

until a female student on my course (international studies with economics,

poliitics and modern European history) caught a glimpse of me. She was

accompanied by a stylish group of guys and gals dressed to dance the night

away. Attractive and self-assertive, she would be probably the last person

in the world I would expect to get intimate with (we had hardly spoken

before), but I plucked up the courage, carried my empty glass to the bar and

expressed my surprise at seeing her. " Is this your usual haunt? " she

replied. I said I stayed just a few minutes' walk away (which was true), but

was expecting to meet a friend who never turned up. So I just exited the

drinking establishment and worried about wasting my meagre resources on

booze. In hindsight, she probably just thought I was weirdo and small-time

drug dealer.

As a rule I would not feel at ease eating in a restaurant alone in a

neighbourhood where people know me or expect patrons to socialise. However,

I positively love frequenting street cafés in many foreign countries. In

Italy I got into the habit of reading the papers at the local bar (as a

capuccino was around the same price as most newspapers). Sometimes I'd take

a book, just in case someone else was reading the paper, but on other

occasions the incessant rumble of traffic and loud music would turn me away.

In Cologne, Germany, I would just go to the students' canteen and sooner or

later someone try to pick a conversation with me (in this period I would

keep switching national identities - probably because my accent sounded

either Dutch or Polish to most Germans). Little did they know that I would

bore them with a deep analysis of linguistics, politics or imminent

environmental catastrophes.

Now I have a family, but feel lonier than ever. Blisss I guess would be an

open air café in an idyllic island where no-one spoke my language or knew

anything of my culture. I could just observe human interaction and my

behaviour would be considered perfectly normal for an alien.

BTW why not get a take-out meal?

Neil

Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

> <<<Today I want to get outside. I even want to go to a restaurant that I

know is open, and I'd be going alone.>>>

>

> Lucky you! Everything here closed down yesterday and won't open until

tomorrow. I'd jump at the chance to go someplace -- there's nothing on TV

but " Miracle on 34th Street " and " Pollyanna " and yours is the first e-mail

to come my way in hours upon hours.

>

> <<<Would it be weird to ask the waiter as they were seating me to please

not ask any questions, or might that might them act even more solicitous?>>>

>

> It would probably be viewed as wierd and it would call more attention to

yourself and to the fact that you're alone and to the fact that you're

self-conscious or otherwise uncomfortable about being alone.

>

> <<<Or maybe I should just stay in?>>>

>

> Don't you dare! You *must* go out and enjoy yourself. Think of the

starving children in Ethiopia...no, wait, that's the wrong one...um... think

of those less fortunate than you... no... oh! I've got it! Think of me

sitting here wishing Taco Bell were open! Go out and have fun and enjoy

yourself doubly -- once for you and once by proxy for me, stuck here with

Pollyanna and no Taco Bell.

>

> <<<I'm also worried that if a neighbor is out going somewhere, they might

ask me. I guess I can just lie to them, but I get so tired of having to do

that, and having to hide in general if I'm not doing something on the

holdiay!>>>

>

> Tell them you have plans. It's not a lie. You *do* have plans. You have

plans to go out and treat yourself to dinner! That's not a lie. You aren't

required to tell people *what* your plans are, just put on your best

approximation of a charming NT smile and say, " thank you for thinking of me,

but I'm sorry I can't go with you. I have other plans today. " If they get

pushy about it, *they're* the ones being rude.

>

> <<<Does anyone here experience this?>>>

>

> I'm afraid I don't really pay enough attention to wait staff to have any

idea what they're feeling or thinking. When it comes down to it, *you* could

just as easily feel sorry for *them* since they have to work on Christmas

Day while you get to enjoy a lovely dinner cooked for you, brought to you

and cleaned up after for you.

>

> As for neighbors, family, etc. I don't have a lot of experience with them

being socially pushy since I keep so much to myself and live so far from my

blood relatives, but on the rare occasions when soemone does get pushy (like

a woman last week who kept insisting I *had* to drive three hours into the

middle of nowhere to stand outside in the snow and admire her labyrinth for

the Solstice. I told her that I have my own religious observances on the

Solstice and she insisted that I could do them at her house. I said that I

always observe the holy day with the members of my order. She said, " you're

wiccan! There will be plenty of Wiccans, come on out. " I said, " I'm not

Wiccan. " She kept insisting that my order would be fine without me and I

said, " you find them an initiated and ordained gnostic priestess to take my

place. " She said, " what do you have to do to be that? " I said, " It takes at

least five years of study and intiations. " Her face fell and she finally

gave up when she realized that she couldn't very well insist that a member

of the clergy leave their church in order to look at her labyrinth. (Never

mind that my " flock " consists of me and one other person and I'm not

actually ordained. She was being so rudely pushy that my options were to

grow angry with her or give her an air-tight lie. She runs the only drum

circle in town so I chose the latter.))

>

> Anyway, when someone gets pushy with me like that, I push back in one way

or another. I put in back in their lap or I get stubborn or even angry with

them or I flat-out tell them how rude they're being. Or, if it's a person I

have to deal with in the future, like the drum circle leader or a boss, I

come up with an air-tight alibi that may or may not be 100% true but I stick

with it as if it were. This is the hardest choice because you have to pick

one that won't fall through later. In my example, I *did* have religious

Solstice plans, they *did* involve other people, the other people (person)

*are* initiated member(s) of my order and I *was* in charge of some of the

ritual. I inflated the number of participants so she wouldn't insist that we

could do our (very very very private) ritual at her labyrinth (at the last

minute, no less!) and I knew that she wasn't likely to catch me in it

because I was going to be home all day and it was only a half-lie (and one

of those cleverly evil NT sort of lies that my partner has been teaching me

about -- the ones where you never say an untruth but you lead the other

person to believe something that you haven't said.)

>

> In the case of you going out to dinner, no lies are required. Anyone else

with an unwanted invitation can be honestly told that you have plans (and

this would be true even if your plans were to watch television and eat

microwave popcorn!) and the wait staff are there doing a job and don't merit

your consideration beyond being a polite customer. Don't let their attitudes

ruin your holiday dinner! For all you know, they're not feeling sorry for

you having dinner alone, they're feeling sorry for themselves having to work

while you relax.

>

> Have a lovely dinner!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>I planned ahead to have something special of my

> own tonight.

We planned ahead because we have to (we usually go to the store every day or

every other day so we had to stock up. As it was, we missed something -- my club

soda -- so I get to drink tap water today.)

Rob's cooking chicken breasts right now and he's going to make stuffing and I'm

opening a can of cranberry sauce and I made a sweet potato and apple scallop

thingy that's cooling off right now.

> Norah, I think it's fine to go out on your own. I would rather

> get food to eat at home, but that's just my preference. I'm sure

> there's nothing amiss about a single person eating in a

> restaurant. It seems pretty elegant to me, in fact.

I'd rather go to a restaurant where I can have someone else do the dishes. I

haven't been feeling well since November and I don't have a lot of spare energy

to exert. Making the scallop and washing up after dinner will just about take

all the energy I have available for today.

[Guest guest]

> "

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 22:31:01 -0000

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

>

> <<<Today I want to get outside. I even want to go to a restaurant that I know

> is open, and I'd be going alone.>>>

>

> Lucky you! Everything here closed down yesterday and won't open until

> tomorrow. I'd jump at the chance to go someplace -- there's nothing on TV but

> " Miracle on 34th Street " and " Pollyanna " and yours is the first e-mail to come

> my way in hours upon hours.

Almost everything is closed here except one Subway and a couple Chinese

restaurants and the 7-11's and gas station stores.

>

> <<<Would it be weird to ask the waiter as they were seating me to please not

> ask any questions, or might that might them act even more solicitous?>>>

>

> It would probably be viewed as wierd and it would call more attention to

> yourself and to the fact that you're alone and to the fact that you're

> self-conscious or otherwise uncomfortable about being alone.

I agree now that I think about it.

>

> <<<Or maybe I should just stay in?>>>

>

> Don't you dare! You *must* go out and enjoy yourself. Think of the starving

> children in Ethiopia...no, wait, that's the wrong one...um... think of those

> less fortunate than you... no... oh! I've got it! Think of me sitting here

> wishing Taco Bell were open! Go out and have fun and enjoy yourself doubly --

> once for you and once by proxy for me, stuck here with Pollyanna and no Taco

> Bell.

I did and it was fun!!!

>

> <<<I'm also worried that if a neighbor is out going somewhere, they might ask

> me. I guess I can just lie to them, but I get so tired of having to do that,

> and having to hide in general if I'm not doing something on the holdiay!>>>

>

> Tell them you have plans. It's not a lie. You *do* have plans. You have plans

> to go out and treat yourself to dinner! That's not a lie. You aren't required

> to tell people *what* your plans are, just put on your best approximation of a

> charming NT smile and say, " thank you for thinking of me, but I'm sorry I

> can't go with you. I have other plans today. " If they get pushy about it,

> *they're* the ones being rude.

The thing is, they wouldn't invite me. I might even hvae gone if someone

had invited me ahead of time, so it didn't look like they just felt sorry

for me or something! I just meant they might ask questions as to where I

was spending Christmas.

>

> <<<Does anyone here experience this?>>>

>

> I'm afraid I don't really pay enough attention to wait staff to have any idea

> what they're feeling or thinking. When it comes down to it, *you* could just

> as easily feel sorry for *them* since they have to work on Christmas Day while

> you get to enjoy a lovely dinner cooked for you, brought to you and cleaned up

> after for you.

That's a good point!!!

>

> As for neighbors, family, etc. I don't have a lot of experience with them

> being socially pushy since I keep so much to myself and live so far from my

> blood relatives, but on the rare occasions when soemone does get pushy (like a

> woman last week who kept insisting I *had* to drive three hours into the

> middle of nowhere to stand outside in the snow and admire her labyrinth for

> the Solstice. I told her that I have my own religious observances on the

> Solstice and she insisted that I could do them at her house. I said that I

> always observe the holy day with the members of my order. She said, " you're

> wiccan! There will be plenty of Wiccans, come on out. " I said, " I'm not

> Wiccan. " She kept insisting that my order would be fine without me and I said,

> " you find them an initiated and ordained gnostic priestess to take my place. "

> She said, " what do you have to do to be that? " I said, " It takes at least five

> years of study and intiations. " Her face fell and she finally gave up when she

> realized that she couldn't very well insist that a member of the clergy leave

> their church in order to look at her labyrinth. (Never mind that my " flock "

> consists of me and one other person and I'm not actually ordained. She was

> being so rudely pushy that my options were to grow angry with her or give her

> an air-tight lie. She runs the only drum circle in town so I chose the

> latter.))

That would be very frustrating to have someone as insistent as that!!!!

>

> Anyway, when someone gets pushy with me like that, I push back in one way or

> another. I put in back in their lap or I get stubborn or even angry with them

> or I flat-out tell them how rude they're being. Or, if it's a person I have to

> deal with in the future, like the drum circle leader or a boss, I come up with

> an air-tight alibi that may or may not be 100% true but I stick with it as if

> it were. This is the hardest choice because you have to pick one that won't

> fall through later. In my example, I *did* have religious Solstice plans, they

> *did* involve other people, the other people (person) *are* initiated

> member(s) of my order and I *was* in charge of some of the ritual. I inflated

> the number of participants so she wouldn't insist that we could do our (very

> very very private) ritual at her labyrinth (at the last minute, no less!) and

> I knew that she wasn't likely to catch me in it because I was going to be home

> all day and it was only a half-lie (and one of those cleverly evil NT sort of

> lies that my partner has been teaching me about -- the ones where you never

> say an untruth but you lead the other person to believe something that you

> haven't said.)

Yes, those are a good idea. I hardly ever get invited anywhere though, and

usually I would want to go. I just wanted to avoid having someone ask me

where I was going!

>

> In the case of you going out to dinner, no lies are required. Anyone else with

> an unwanted invitation can be honestly told that you have plans (and this

> would be true even if your plans were to watch television and eat microwave

> popcorn!) and the wait staff are there doing a job and don't merit your

> consideration beyond being a polite customer. Don't let their attitudes ruin

> your holiday dinner! For all you know, they're not feeling sorry for you

> having dinner alone, they're feeling sorry for themselves having to work while

> you relax.

Yes, that's probably true!!

I wasn't afraid of unwanted invitations though, just unwanted questions. I

hardly ever get invited anywhere! I wish I could get invited more.

>

> Have a lovely dinner!

Thanks--I did!!

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You're right, I really shouldn't worry about that. I did end up going out

to a Chinese restaurant that was open & is quite inexpensive, and had a good

time, although I did try to get out of there as quickly as possible. I did

see one other person alone, but most of them were in groups. But no one

said anything and I didn't see any neighbors out at all.

Norah

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 15:58:59 -0600

> To: <AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse >

> Subject: Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

> Norah,

>

> I think you're assuming people to be more critical and judgemental than they

> actually are. I doubt most people would care if you were dining alone. And if

> they did, so what? If I had the money right now, I'd put on my best outfit and

> head on over to the Paper Valley Hotel here in Appleton for the meal of my

> life. Alone. What's more, I'd love every moment.

>

> One thing you should learn, Norah, is that if you're doing no one any harm,

> you don't have to justify your actions to anyone. Go out to a restaurant,

> alone, get the best meal you can afford, and for crying out loud, enjoy

> yourself. And be sure to let us know how it went.

>

>

> Going out alone on Christmas

>

>

> Normally if I don't have anywhere to go on Christmas day, I stay in and hide

> so no one will ask me questions! (I know, I should volunteer at a shelter.)

> Today I want to get outside. I even want to go to a restaurant that I know

> is open, and I'd be going alone.

>

> But I'm afraid of inviting stares or even pitying comments. I'm not feeling

> sorry for myself, and hopefully no one will notice me, but I remember

> another time I did this I got some sort of sad-eyed stares from people

> waiting on me, and even questions about whether I was going somewhere later.

> Even though I don't feel bad about not going somewhere right now, if someone

> makes these comments I might start to feel bad. Would it be weird to ask

> the waiter as they were seating me to please not ask any questions, or might

> that might them act even more solicitous? Or maybe I should just stay in?

>

> I'm also worried that if a neighbor is out going somewhere, they might ask

> me. I guess I can just lie to them, but I get so tired of having to do

> that, and having to hide in general if I'm not doing something on the

> holdiay!

>

> Does anyone here experience this?

>

> Norah

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Cool!!! It's none of their business anyway, but it's nice not to feel out

of place.

It seems like most people here have someplace to go, or stay home, and only

a very few restaurants are open, and then you usually see groups there.

Norah

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 15:34:51 -0800 (PST)

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreehouse <AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse >

> Subject: Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

> There are actually places in my city that serve Christmas dinner to people

> who don't have anyone to be with or anywhere to go at Christmas. I've been

> going to such a place the last few years. I don't tell them " I'm not

> welcome at my family's Christmas gathering " or anything. I just show up,

> and I get fed.

>

> Iris

[Guest guest]

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 15:32:20 -0800

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

> Norah wrote:

>> <<<Today I want to get outside. I even want to go to a restaurant that I

>> know is open, and I'd be going alone.>>>

>

> and Sparrow responded:

>> Lucky you! Everything here closed down yesterday and won't open until

>> tomorrow. I'd jump at the chance to go someplace -- there's nothing on TV

>> but " Miracle on 34th Street " and " Pollyanna " and yours is the first e-mail

>> to come my way in hours upon hours.

>

> I bought myself a take-out burrito on Monday specifically to enjoy

> this evening. Even though I don't celebrate Christmas, it does

> feel weird to have the " whole world " (in experiential terms)

> doing so, all the stores/restaurants closed, etc., etc., and me

> have nothing special about the day. That's why (in order to

> prevent that minor weirdness from leading to any feeling of

> depression) I planned ahead to have something special of my

> own tonight.

That was a good idea. Often I do that but for some reason I didn't this

time.

>

> Norah, I think it's fine to go out on your own. I would rather

> get food to eat at home, but that's just my preference. I'm sure

> there's nothing amiss about a single person eating in a

> restaurant. It seems pretty elegant to me, in fact.

No one seemed to look at me funny or anything, so I think it was OK. I went

to a Chinese restaurant, and there actually was one other person in there

that was alone.

>

> I had hoped to take a walk (on my own) today, but the weather

> has been lousy. Not only rainy but very windy. Gusts up to 40

> mph, which does not make for pleasant walking. The radio is

> warning that we may have a major wind storm on Friday, with

> sustained winds of 40 mph and gusts up to 60. Well, it may

> never happen, so I won't worry about it now.

It was really windy when I first started, and rainy of course, but the wind

seemed to die down a little and it wasn't as cold as it is sometimes! I

have a nice parka or anorak or whatever it's called, with a hood and made

out of water-resistant nylon, so it was OK even though I had to wait for

buses.

Norah

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 00:18:06 -0000

> To: <AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse >

> Subject: Re: Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

> Norah and ,

>

> I have often faced this dilemma myself. As a student living in London I once

> felt so depressed about spending another night alone in a room I rented, I

> decided to hit the town and wandered into one of the trendiest bars of

> infamous Brixton and ordered myself a pint of beer (that's 20 fl. oz. or

> 568ml over here), but had nowhere to sit, so I just sat on the end of a

> bench and claimed the corner of a table. No-body noticed or approached me

> until a female student on my course (international studies with economics,

> poliitics and modern European history) caught a glimpse of me. She was

> accompanied by a stylish group of guys and gals dressed to dance the night

> away. Attractive and self-assertive, she would be probably the last person

> in the world I would expect to get intimate with (we had hardly spoken

> before), but I plucked up the courage, carried my empty glass to the bar and

> expressed my surprise at seeing her. " Is this your usual haunt? " she

> replied. I said I stayed just a few minutes' walk away (which was true), but

> was expecting to meet a friend who never turned up. So I just exited the

> drinking establishment and worried about wasting my meagre resources on

> booze. In hindsight, she probably just thought I was weirdo and small-time

> drug dealer.

Or she might have taken what you said at face value. I can understand about

feeling lonely and wanting to get out.

> As a rule I would not feel at ease eating in a restaurant alone in a

> neighbourhood where people know me or expect patrons to socialise. However,

> I positively love frequenting street cafés in many foreign countries. In

> Italy I got into the habit of reading the papers at the local bar (as a

> capuccino was around the same price as most newspapers). Sometimes I'd take

> a book, just in case someone else was reading the paper, but on other

> occasions the incessant rumble of traffic and loud music would turn me away.

It seems you hardly ever see people alone in restaurants here, except me,

and as I go out to eat most of the time I'm sure if they notice they feel

sorry for me or probalby just think I'm a weirdo that no one wants to be

around, but this is the first time in over 10 years when I've actually gone

to a restaurant alone on Christmas and I thought that would be the ultimate

weird-looking thing. Even the other day a waiter asked me if I was going

anywhere on Christmas, so I thought someone would really get on my case if I

was alone today.

> In Cologne, Germany, I would just go to the students' canteen and sooner or

> later someone try to pick a conversation with me (in this period I would

> keep switching national identities - probably because my accent sounded

> either Dutch or Polish to most Germans). Little did they know that I would

> bore them with a deep analysis of linguistics, politics or imminent

> environmental catastrophes.

LOL!

> Now I have a family, but feel lonier than ever. Blisss I guess would be an

> open air café in an idyllic island where no-one spoke my language or knew

> anything of my culture. I could just observe human interaction and my

> behaviour would be considered perfectly normal for an alien.

> BTW why not get a take-out meal?

I don't have a car and it'd be a pain in the neck to get take-out,

especially since nothing is open near where I live! But i did go to a

restaurant and no one said anything or made any comments!!!!!

>

> Neil

>

>

>

> Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

>

>>

>> <<<Today I want to get outside. I even want to go to a restaurant that I

> know is open, and I'd be going alone.>>>

>>

>> Lucky you! Everything here closed down yesterday and won't open until

> tomorrow. I'd jump at the chance to go someplace -- there's nothing on TV

> but " Miracle on 34th Street " and " Pollyanna " and yours is the first e-mail

> to come my way in hours upon hours.

>>

>> <<<Would it be weird to ask the waiter as they were seating me to please

> not ask any questions, or might that might them act even more solicitous?>>>

>>

>> It would probably be viewed as wierd and it would call more attention to

> yourself and to the fact that you're alone and to the fact that you're

> self-conscious or otherwise uncomfortable about being alone.

>>

>> <<<Or maybe I should just stay in?>>>

>>

>> Don't you dare! You *must* go out and enjoy yourself. Think of the

> starving children in Ethiopia...no, wait, that's the wrong one...um... think

> of those less fortunate than you... no... oh! I've got it! Think of me

> sitting here wishing Taco Bell were open! Go out and have fun and enjoy

> yourself doubly -- once for you and once by proxy for me, stuck here with

> Pollyanna and no Taco Bell.

>>

>> <<<I'm also worried that if a neighbor is out going somewhere, they might

> ask me. I guess I can just lie to them, but I get so tired of having to do

> that, and having to hide in general if I'm not doing something on the

> holdiay!>>>

>>

>> Tell them you have plans. It's not a lie. You *do* have plans. You have

> plans to go out and treat yourself to dinner! That's not a lie. You aren't

> required to tell people *what* your plans are, just put on your best

> approximation of a charming NT smile and say, " thank you for thinking of me,

> but I'm sorry I can't go with you. I have other plans today. " If they get

> pushy about it, *they're* the ones being rude.

>>

>> <<<Does anyone here experience this?>>>

>>

>> I'm afraid I don't really pay enough attention to wait staff to have any

> idea what they're feeling or thinking. When it comes down to it, *you* could

> just as easily feel sorry for *them* since they have to work on Christmas

> Day while you get to enjoy a lovely dinner cooked for you, brought to you

> and cleaned up after for you.

>>

>> As for neighbors, family, etc. I don't have a lot of experience with them

> being socially pushy since I keep so much to myself and live so far from my

> blood relatives, but on the rare occasions when soemone does get pushy (like

> a woman last week who kept insisting I *had* to drive three hours into the

> middle of nowhere to stand outside in the snow and admire her labyrinth for

> the Solstice. I told her that I have my own religious observances on the

> Solstice and she insisted that I could do them at her house. I said that I

> always observe the holy day with the members of my order. She said, " you're

> wiccan! There will be plenty of Wiccans, come on out. " I said, " I'm not

> Wiccan. " She kept insisting that my order would be fine without me and I

> said, " you find them an initiated and ordained gnostic priestess to take my

> place. " She said, " what do you have to do to be that? " I said, " It takes at

> least five years of study and intiations. " Her face fell and she finally

> gave up when she realized that she couldn't very well insist that a member

> of the clergy leave their church in order to look at her labyrinth. (Never

> mind that my " flock " consists of me and one other person and I'm not

> actually ordained. She was being so rudely pushy that my options were to

> grow angry with her or give her an air-tight lie. She runs the only drum

> circle in town so I chose the latter.))

>>

>> Anyway, when someone gets pushy with me like that, I push back in one way

> or another. I put in back in their lap or I get stubborn or even angry with

> them or I flat-out tell them how rude they're being. Or, if it's a person I

> have to deal with in the future, like the drum circle leader or a boss, I

> come up with an air-tight alibi that may or may not be 100% true but I stick

> with it as if it were. This is the hardest choice because you have to pick

> one that won't fall through later. In my example, I *did* have religious

> Solstice plans, they *did* involve other people, the other people (person)

> *are* initiated member(s) of my order and I *was* in charge of some of the

> ritual. I inflated the number of participants so she wouldn't insist that we

> could do our (very very very private) ritual at her labyrinth (at the last

> minute, no less!) and I knew that she wasn't likely to catch me in it

> because I was going to be home all day and it was only a half-lie (and one

> of those cleverly evil NT sort of lies that my partner has been teaching me

> about -- the ones where you never say an untruth but you lead the other

> person to believe something that you haven't said.)

>>

>> In the case of you going out to dinner, no lies are required. Anyone else

> with an unwanted invitation can be honestly told that you have plans (and

> this would be true even if your plans were to watch television and eat

> microwave popcorn!) and the wait staff are there doing a job and don't merit

> your consideration beyond being a polite customer. Don't let their attitudes

> ruin your holiday dinner! For all you know, they're not feeling sorry for

> you having dinner alone, they're feeling sorry for themselves having to work

> while you relax.

>>

>> Have a lovely dinner!

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

> "

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 00:51:05 -0000

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

>

>> I planned ahead to have something special of my

>> own tonight.

>

> We planned ahead because we have to (we usually go to the store every day or

> every other day so we had to stock up. As it was, we missed something -- my

> club soda -- so I get to drink tap water today.)

>

> Rob's cooking chicken breasts right now and he's going to make stuffing and

> I'm opening a can of cranberry sauce and I made a sweet potato and apple

> scallop thingy that's cooling off right now.

Mmmmmm, sounds yummy!!!!!!!!! It sounds like Rob is a good cook?

>

>> Norah, I think it's fine to go out on your own. I would rather

>> get food to eat at home, but that's just my preference. I'm sure

>> there's nothing amiss about a single person eating in a

>> restaurant. It seems pretty elegant to me, in fact.

>

> I'd rather go to a restaurant where I can have someone else do the dishes. I

> haven't been feeling well since November and I don't have a lot of spare

> energy to exert. Making the scallop and washing up after dinner will just

> about take all the energy I have available for today.

I'm sorry to hear you aren't feeling well!!!

Norah

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

<<<Almost everything is closed here except one Subway and a couple Chinese

restaurants and the 7-11's and gas station stores.>>>

There are two gas stations open and one convenience store. I've lived in other

places this small that had Chinese restaurants open on Christmas, but there

isn't a big enough Jewish population here for that. (Chinese food on Christmas

is a Jewish tradition where I come from (and probably many other places) since

it's usually kosher food and Jewish people don't do the Christmas thing but like

to go out anyway.)

<<<I did and it was fun!!!>>>

Glad to hear!

<<<I just meant they might ask questions as to where I was spending

Christmas.>>>

It's a shame that you feel embarassed (correct me if I'm wrong) about doing

something small for Christmas. There are a lot of people who don't celebrate by

choice and other people who prefer something small and quiet. Don't feel bad if

someone asks where you're going or what you're doing for Christmas and you

respond with something like, " I'm just having a quiet dinner. " Say it with pride

and pleasure and they'll just assume that it's by choice whether it is or not.

[snipped description of the pushy labyrinth lady]

<<<That would be very frustrating to have someone as insistent as that!!!!>>>

Half of me was angry that she wouldn't listen, wouldn't take no for an answer

and wasn't respecting my own religious choices. Half of me felt sorry for her

because being so pushy like that made her sound desperate for someone to come to

her labyrinth thing. Later in the evening she said something about feeling like

no one was going to come to her party so I figure that second half of me had

good instincts there! (and the first half that was getting angry also felt like

it had good instincts because she was doing the " NT fib " thing too by telling me

that " lots of wiccan women " would be at her labyrinth. She wouldn't be thinking

that no one would show up if " lots of wiccan women " were *really* going to be

there!) (one difference between my fib and hers is that I wasn't inviting her to

my religious service so she would never know how many or few people came to mine

but she *was* inviting me to her religious service and I would have figured out

immediately that she hadn't been honest with me if it turned out that I was the

only person who showed up. I don't like lying and only do it when I feel like

I'm being forced into it, but at least I'm not dumb enough to make lies about

things that will be obviously false later!)

<<<Yes, those are a good idea. I hardly ever get invited anywhere though, and

usually I would want to go.>>>

It's too bad the list is so scattered or else we could have all had a late lunch

or early supper or something together.

[Guest guest]

> Mmmmmm, sounds yummy!!!!!!!!! It sounds like Rob is a good cook?

He's pretty good but our choices are limited because he and I mostly like

totally different foods so there's a narrow cross-over of what we are both

willing to eat (and I started eating things I'd never eaten before so that we'd

have enough things to eat.) The Sweet potato and apple scallop was all mine and

so was the cranberry sauce -- he hates both those things. Part of why I eat

things I didn't eat before is because Rob likes to cook and I like to but don't

always want to so it's easier to eat chicken and hot dogs and cheeseburgers than

to have to cook my own food every day. LOL!

> I'm sorry to hear you aren't feeling well!!!

Thanks. I'm going to see a specialist on January 9th. Keep your fingers crossed

for me that it's something minor. :-)

[Guest guest]

> Cool!!! It's none of their business anyway, but it's nice not to feel out

> of place.

>

> It seems like most people here have someplace to go, or stay home, and only

> a very few restaurants are open, and then you usually see groups there.

Almost all of my friends have family to spend the day with. I only have my

brother, and I already knew I would not be welcome at his house because he

invites his wife's family for Christmas. I didn't want to spend the

holiday with them anyway.

I found that in my city there were quite a few restaurants open. Maybe

more people are going out for dinner instead of cooking. Also there was

one drugstore open (which was good, because I needed to buy some bandages

after I scraped my knee) and several small, corner grocery stores.

We are also having wind and rain here!

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

Proud to be Canuckistanian

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

Norah wrote:

>...this is the first time in over 10 years when I've actually gone

>to a restaurant alone on Christmas and I thought that would be the ultimate

>weird-looking thing. Even the other day a waiter asked me if I was going

>anywhere on Christmas, so I thought someone would really get on my case if I

>was alone today.

I think " Are you doing anything special over the holiday? " or

some variation thereof is a standard question NTs ask each

other (and us, because they assume everyone is like them),

just as a matter of course. It's like " How are you? " They

don't really care about what you respond, it's just a way

of enabling two NTs to make the appropriate sounds at each

other to indicate good will and mutual non-aggression.

People at work routinely ask me what I'm doing (or if I'm

doing " anything special " ) before every holiday. I've told

them all that I " don't do holidays, " and when anyone asks

why, I've told them that I have no sense of holiday-ness,

that I appreciate having a day off work but that's all it

is to me. Yet they continue to ask the " do you have plans

for the holiday? " question (and, after we're back at work,

" Did you do anything special for the holiday? " ) anyway.

In short: I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever

how you respond to questions like that. How you spend your

time is your own business, and nobody in the world actually

cares about it other than you yourself. They're just acting

out NT social conventions when they enquire into your

activities.

That's how it looks to me in my own experience, at least.

Jane

[Guest guest]

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 21:45:48 -0800

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

> I think " Are you doing anything special over the holiday? " or

> some variation thereof is a standard question NTs ask each

> other (and us, because they assume everyone is like them),

> just as a matter of course. It's like " How are you? " They

> don't really care about what you respond, it's just a way

> of enabling two NTs to make the appropriate sounds at each

> other to indicate good will and mutual non-aggression.

YEs, I think that's it. I mean, I do the same thing so I guess I can't say

anything about them. I probably might feel bad or funny or something if I

was going somewhere and someone told me they weren't going anywhere, and it

seemed like they really wanted to. Also they usually assume that everyone

wants to and can't quite process that some people don't.

>

> People at work routinely ask me what I'm doing (or if I'm

> doing " anything special " ) before every holiday. I've told

> them all that I " don't do holidays, " and when anyone asks

> why, I've told them that I have no sense of holiday-ness,

> that I appreciate having a day off work but that's all it

> is to me. Yet they continue to ask the " do you have plans

> for the holiday? " question (and, after we're back at work,

> " Did you do anything special for the holiday? " ) anyway.

Oh geez. I think NT's have theory-of-mind issues too sometimes....

>

> In short: I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever

> how you respond to questions like that. How you spend your

> time is your own business, and nobody in the world actually

> cares about it other than you yourself. They're just acting

> out NT social conventions when they enquire into your

> activities.

>

> That's how it looks to me in my own experience, at least.

I think you're right!

>

> Jane

[Guest guest]

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:42:00 -0800 (PST)

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

> Almost all of my friends have family to spend the day with. I only have my

> brother, and I already knew I would not be welcome at his house because he

> invites his wife's family for Christmas. I didn't want to spend the

> holiday with them anyway.

Well, it's just as well then anyway!

>

> I found that in my city there were quite a few restaurants open. Maybe

> more people are going out for dinner instead of cooking. Also there was

> one drugstore open (which was good, because I needed to buy some bandages

> after I scraped my knee) and several small, corner grocery stores.

That's good.

>

> We are also having wind and rain here!

Are you in British Columbia? I'm in Seattle--it's probably the same storm!

>

> Iris

[Guest guest]

> "

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 03:29:14 -0000

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

>

> <<<Almost everything is closed here except one Subway and a couple Chinese

> restaurants and the 7-11's and gas station stores.>>>

>

> There are two gas stations open and one convenience store. I've lived in other

> places this small that had Chinese restaurants open on Christmas, but there

> isn't a big enough Jewish population here for that. (Chinese food on Christmas

> is a Jewish tradition where I come from (and probably many other places) since

> it's usually kosher food and Jewish people don't do the Christmas thing but

> like to go out anyway.)

Wow, I never knew that! Cool!

>

> It's a shame that you feel embarassed (correct me if I'm wrong) about doing

> something small for Christmas. There are a lot of people who don't celebrate

> by choice and other people who prefer something small and quiet. Don't feel

> bad if someone asks where you're going or what you're doing for Christmas and

> you respond with something like, " I'm just having a quiet dinner. " Say it with

> pride and pleasure and they'll just assume that it's by choice whether it is

> or not.

I'm just embarrassed about not having a friend or family member's house to

go to for Christmas! Even if I had a spouse or partner and said we were

having Christmas by ourselves, I don't think I " d get the same kind of looks

that I'd get if they heard I was all by myself! I mean, I'm 45 and some

45-year-olds have grandkids and here I don't even have kids!! But if I said

I was having a quiet dinner, they wouldn't have to know it was by myself, so

that's a great idea!

>

> [snipped description of the pushy labyrinth lady]

> <<<That would be very frustrating to have someone as insistent as that!!!!>>>

>

> Half of me was angry that she wouldn't listen, wouldn't take no for an answer

> and wasn't respecting my own religious choices. Half of me felt sorry for her

> because being so pushy like that made her sound desperate for someone to come

> to her labyrinth thing. Later in the evening she said something about feeling

> like no one was going to come to her party so I figure that second half of me

> had good instincts there! (and the first half that was getting angry also felt

> like it had good instincts because she was doing the " NT fib " thing too by

> telling me that " lots of wiccan women " would be at her labyrinth. She wouldn't

> be thinking that no one would show up if " lots of wiccan women " were *really*

> going to be there!) (one difference between my fib and hers is that I wasn't

> inviting her to my religious service so she would never know how many or few

> people came to mine but she *was* inviting me to her religious service and I

> would have figured out immediately that she hadn't been honest with me if it

> turned out that I was the only person who showed up. I don't like lying and

> only do it when I feel like I'm being forced into it, but at least I'm not

> dumb enough to make lies about things that will be obviously false later!)

I agree! I think she was afraid no one would be there. That was really

dumb of her to say that about " lots of wiccan women " .

>

> <<<Yes, those are a good idea. I hardly ever get invited anywhere though, and

> usually I would want to go.>>>

>

> It's too bad the list is so scattered or else we could have all had a late

> lunch or early supper or something together.

That would be fun! Oh well.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I hope it will be!! Let us know how it goes.

Norah

> "

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 03:35:16 -0000

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

> Thanks. I'm going to see a specialist on January 9th. Keep your fingers

> crossed for me that it's something minor. :-)

[Guest guest]

<<<I found that in my city there were quite a few restaurants open. Maybe more

people are going out for dinner instead of cooking. Also there was one drugstore

open (which was good, because I needed to buy some bandages after I scraped my

knee) and several small, corner grocery stores.>>>

Part of why everything closes up here is that this is largely a religious

community. It is my understanding that the church puts pressure on members who

keep their businesses open on Sundays, let alone Holy Days.

(I do like this community, though, because there is very little crime and as one

of the " unconverted, " I mainly get ignored and left alone.)

[Guest guest]

>

> Are you in British Columbia? I'm in Seattle--it's probably the same

> storm!

Yes, I'm in , B.C. I think it probably is the same storm, and it's

caused quite a few power failures on the mainland.

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

Proud to be Canuckistanian

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

> In short: I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever

> how you respond to questions like that. How you spend your

> time is your own business, and nobody in the world actually

> cares about it other than you yourself. They're just acting

> out NT social conventions when they enquire into your

> activities.

>

> That's how it looks to me in my own experience, at least.

I think you're spot on there, Jane.

The version I'm used to hearing is, " are you ready for ____? " which assumes that

everyone purchases, cooks, decorates, etc. for the various " standard " holidays.

I usually just nod, but when I'm feeling in the right mood I'll answer something

like, " I'm ready for it to be over " which gets a chuckle and a nod (I assume

they're assuming that I'm frazzled from all that shopping, cooking, etc.) or

" no, but I'm ready for my own religion's holiday " which gets various responses

(and I think most people then assume I'm Jewish.)

Most of the time people don't really care what you answer when they ask " how are

you? " or " are you excited about Christmas? " or " Are you looking forward to the

Summer? " or any of the various social questions they ask. I've mentioned before

that I tend to answer " how are you? " with " hello " and most people never even

notice that I didn't answer their question. (I usually don't like to answer " how

are you? " because it always seems to get asked when I'm definitely *not* fine

but how I *actually* am is no one's business but my own.)

[Guest guest]

Yes, that would be a good benefit of living in a religious area, as long as

they don't try to convert you.

Norah

> "

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 06:56:49 -0000

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

> Part of why everything closes up here is that this is largely a religious

> community. It is my understanding that the church puts pressure on members who

> keep their businesses open on Sundays, let alone Holy Days.

>

> (I do like this community, though, because there is very little crime and as

> one of the " unconverted, " I mainly get ignored and left alone.)

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder if my landlords are having one--they live in Lions Bay. Everything

seems to be OK around here so far.

Norah

>

> Reply-To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 22:59:13 -0800 (PST)

> To: AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse

> Subject: Re: Going out alone on Christmas

>

>

>

>>

>> Are you in British Columbia? I'm in Seattle--it's probably the same

>> storm!

>

> Yes, I'm in , B.C. I think it probably is the same storm, and it's

> caused quite a few power failures on the mainland.

>

> Iris

>

> Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

> Proud to be Canuckistanian

> Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

> Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

>

>

>