Re: Exciting news! Cohort trying the simplified GD-MCB treatment growing fast

[Guest guest]

Oh- an I meant the bacteria's will to live - not ours.

Barb

> > >>

> > >> > Rich

> > >> > Can you stop using the words genetic problems,

> because I'm

> > >> ready to

> > >> > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > >> > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not

> > >> comfortanble that

> > >> > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a

> thousand fold

> > >> to give

> > >> > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > >> > cheers tony

> > >> >

> > >>

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It is inherent in every species to hid or shun (or kill) the sickly.

There's plenty of hiding and denial right now- it's just done a

little differently than the last century.

Compare the leper colonies and what people though of them (they were

damned that way because of something they did that was dirty) and

what the AIDS epidemic brough out in people this century (they were

damned by god because the were unclean ).

Things are different but the same...

It was HYGIENE (more than abx) that did more to stem the tide of

infections than anything else-

Barb

>

>

> > It used to be that some people were " sickly " their whole lives,

but

> it didn't seem as common as it does now, but then again we didn't

have

> the kind of communication back then that we do now.

>

> I think people from the days might not have been too impressed if

you

> were grouchy and lay around a lot. That might be why CFS is not so

> much represented in the culture - though it's still not much

> represented in the culture even today.

>

> At the fin de siecle or however you spell that (1890s), ~10% of the

> people in Western Europe had syphilis. Most of those weren't

> half-paralyzed screaming madmen throwing feces around, but some

were.

> People also died of TB by the busload - like 1% of the entire

> population per annum or something. These people would have

apoplexies

> of coughing blood for hours, then die - or survive and wait for it

to

> happen again. Pretty much everyone would have known TB patients

> personally and it would have been much more common than severe CFS

was

> or is.

>

> Also, many sick people back then were mighty ugly. Boy, I'm not

> kidding. Syphilis and skin TB commonly caused melting and scabbing

of

> the face, such that your nose falls off leaving two big holes... or

> worse. I've seen the pics. About the most disturbing thing I've

seen.

> Some people's heads looked like a spoiled side of meat with eyes. Of

> course this went on right up thru the 1940s. And it can still happen

> in leprosy when it isn't treated.

>

> Of course, it's true the serious stuff tended to be hid away in

> institutions to an extent, but that was probably much less complete

> back then with the weaker economy. We have a ton more money and a

ton

> bigger government now. Even today you can meet plenty of

> highly-disabled schizophrenics on the street here in the USA

> (homeless), but they're usually pretty mild. The screaming raving

> people are all institutionalized. In Berlin there's virtually no

> street people of any kind.

>

[Guest guest]

Pure, true science requires an opposite mindset, but the realities of

how tenure and research funding works means that not rocking the boat

and maintaining the status quo and sheltering vested interests are all

too often necessary career survival skills for researchers, and that

creates an intellectually lazy, risk-adverse atmosphere that will never

get us anywhere.

I will never forget the late, unlamented Strauss complaining

about "those goddamned patients" who did not validate his early

theories about CFS being a straightforward cortisol deficiency. He

became ever after pretty near a one-man crusade within the NIH to

psychologize and marginalize CFS and plunder its meager research funds

for other purposes considered more worthy. Here also is an emblematic

problem: the overly simplistic allopathic idea that every problem has a

simple isolated cause and a pill waiting to be discovered to fix it.

And the enraged, blame-the-victim response when reality does not oblige.

Well ... it feels slightly better to get that off my chest, I know I'm

mostly preaching to the choir here [sigh].

--Bob

wrote:

While

everyone who makes an unmodified statement that CFS literally "is" a

somatization disorder is implying this lie, some people actually

elaborate it explicitly. Blows my mind. Read it all the time in the NY

Times and nobody in the world bats an eyelash. Science requires the

opposite mindset from these people's.

[Guest guest]

Lepers were forced to live outside of cities in ancient Israel

because they were contagious and there was no cure. If one of them

ever recovered they could be examined by the priest and restored to

their life within the city.

Many sicknesses were considered by the community to be a punishment

from God, but in the time of Jesus, who was, of course, Jewish, he

corrected them on this, saying, in one instance, that a man was born

blind not because he or his parents sinned, but rather because there

would be a PURPOSE TO HIS ILLNESS - a public healing. If you have

ever seen " Jesus Christ Superstar " there is an amazing scene in there

where he is " socializing " with the lepers as they almost attack him

in a frenzy to be healed. If he considered their leprosy was a

punishment they deserved he would not have been in their neighborhood

outside the city walls.

Leprosy was used as an illustration of what sin does to a person, but

the public then made an erroneous conclusion that leprosy meant the

victim was a horrible sinner who must have deserved God's judgement.

If you want to look at it that way we all deserve leprosy. Some of us

get mercy and cures.

a Carnes

theology major in a former life before leprosy set in

>

> It is inherent in every species to hid or shun (or kill) the sickly.

>

> There's plenty of hiding and denial right now- it's just done a

> little differently than the last century.

>

> Compare the leper colonies and what people though of them (they

were

> damned that way because of something they did that was dirty) and

> what the AIDS epidemic brough out in people this century (they were

> damned by god because the were unclean ).

>

> Things are different but the same...

>

> It was HYGIENE (more than abx) that did more to stem the tide of

> infections than anything else-

>

> Barb

>

>

> >

> >

> > > It used to be that some people were " sickly " their whole lives,

> but

> > it didn't seem as common as it does now, but then again we didn't

> have

> > the kind of communication back then that we do now.

> >

> > I think people from the days might not have been too impressed if

> you

> > were grouchy and lay around a lot. That might be why CFS is not so

> > much represented in the culture - though it's still not much

> > represented in the culture even today.

> >

> > At the fin de siecle or however you spell that (1890s), ~10% of

the

> > people in Western Europe had syphilis. Most of those weren't

> > half-paralyzed screaming madmen throwing feces around, but some

> were.

> > People also died of TB by the busload - like 1% of the entire

> > population per annum or something. These people would have

> apoplexies

> > of coughing blood for hours, then die - or survive and wait for

it

> to

> > happen again. Pretty much everyone would have known TB patients

> > personally and it would have been much more common than severe

CFS

> was

> > or is.

> >

> > Also, many sick people back then were mighty ugly. Boy, I'm not

> > kidding. Syphilis and skin TB commonly caused melting and

scabbing

> of

> > the face, such that your nose falls off leaving two big holes...

or

> > worse. I've seen the pics. About the most disturbing thing I've

> seen.

> > Some people's heads looked like a spoiled side of meat with eyes.

Of

> > course this went on right up thru the 1940s. And it can still

happen

> > in leprosy when it isn't treated.

> >

> > Of course, it's true the serious stuff tended to be hid away in

> > institutions to an extent, but that was probably much less

complete

> > back then with the weaker economy. We have a ton more money and a

> ton

> > bigger government now. Even today you can meet plenty of

> > highly-disabled schizophrenics on the street here in the USA

> > (homeless), but they're usually pretty mild. The screaming raving

> > people are all institutionalized. In Berlin there's virtually no

> > street people of any kind.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Is Strauss dead or just moved to alternative medicine where he will

probably get rid of all good alternative treatments???

a Carnes

>

> Pure, true science requires an opposite mindset, but the realities

of

> how tenure and research funding works means that not rocking the

boat

> and maintaining the status quo and sheltering vested interests are

all

> too often necessary career survival skills for researchers, and

that

> creates an intellectually lazy, risk-adverse atmosphere that will

never

> get us anywhere.

>

> I will never forget the late, unlamented Strauss

complaining

> about " those goddamned patients " who did not validate his early

theories

> about CFS being a straightforward cortisol deficiency. He became

ever

> after pretty near a one-man crusade within the NIH to psychologize

and

> marginalize CFS and plunder its meager research funds for other

purposes

> considered more worthy. Here also is an emblematic problem: the

overly

> simplistic allopathic idea that every problem has a simple isolated

> cause and a pill waiting to be discovered to fix it. And the

enraged,

> blame-the-victim response when reality does not oblige.

>

> Well ... it feels slightly better to get that off my chest, I know

I'm

> mostly preaching to the choir here [sigh].

>

> --Bob

>

> wrote:

> >

> > While

> > everyone who makes an unmodified statement that CFS

literally " is " a

> > somatization disorder is implying this lie, some people actually

> > elaborate it explicitly. Blows my mind. Read it all the time in

the NY

> > Times and nobody in the world bats an eyelash. Science requires

the

> > opposite mindset from these people's.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

He died of brain cancer very

recently. You're right, his last assignment was heading up a new NIH

department to debunk --er, study -- alternative medical techniques /

food supplements.

--Bob

pjeanneus wrote:

Is Strauss dead or just moved to alternative medicine where he

will

probably get rid of all good alternative treatments???

a Carnes

>

> Pure, true science requires an opposite mindset, but the realities

of

> how tenure and research funding works means that not rocking the

boat

> and maintaining the status quo and sheltering vested interests are

all

> too often necessary career survival skills for researchers, and

that

> creates an intellectually lazy, risk-adverse atmosphere that will

never

> get us anywhere.

>

> I will never forget the late, unlamented Strauss

complaining

> about "those goddamned patients" who did not validate his early

theories

> about CFS being a straightforward cortisol deficiency. He became

ever

> after pretty near a one-man crusade within the NIH to psychologize

and

> marginalize CFS and plunder its meager research funds for other

purposes

> considered more worthy. Here also is an emblematic problem: the

overly

> simplistic allopathic idea that every problem has a simple

isolated

> cause and a pill waiting to be discovered to fix it. And the

enraged,

> blame-the-victim response when reality does not oblige.

>

> Well ... it feels slightly better to get that off my chest, I know

I'm

> mostly preaching to the choir here [sigh].

>

> --Bob

>

> wrote:

> >

> > While

> > everyone who makes an unmodified statement that CFS

literally "is" a

> > somatization disorder is implying this lie, some people

actually

> > elaborate it explicitly. Blows my mind. Read it all the time

in

the NY

> > Times and nobody in the world bats an eyelash. Science

requires

the

> > opposite mindset from these people's.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Penny

Most people must be watching sesame street. You have Bob trying to

add how complex these diseases are...NOW THAT " S BULLSHIT. DON'T

PEOPLE FOLLOW HOW PEOPLE GOT ILL.

Try this one, INCLINE VILLAGE people congregating in a building or a

group of buildings( I don't know how the actual thing goes)..And

my,my, a cluster of people all develop cfs...Symptoms sore

throat,swollen glands, whatever,whatever..Others kiss and develop

mononucleosis, go onto develop cfs, others surgery go onto develop

cfs/fibromyalgia, others car accident, whiplash go onto develop

cfs/fibromyalgia.The big one that many people answer for in a

questionaire here in australia- people recall taking a course of

antibiotics which were handed out like lollies in the past- they

clearly recall this as something they did before they fell ill.I

believe you can't play with bacterial DNA by guessing therapy because

it's becoming obvious a trillion angry bugs ain't good for you.

Now what am I supposed to think when this is the evidence that's

presented? that something complex is occuring?..

I also observe that many on these forums will complain about school

buildings and sick building syndrome. Well dust is mainly comprised

of skin shedding, and skin shedding is full of bacteria..Imagine the

bacterial zoo you can breath in in these settings..1000's of

students, over many many years, can leave some serious bugs behind as

occurs in hospital settings and the don't touch the patient with out

cleaning your hands factor due to the ease of spread of there local

resident bugs.

tony

>

> > Rich

> > Can you stop using the words genetic problems, because I'm ready

to

> > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not comfortanble

that

> > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a thousand fold to

give

> > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > cheers tony

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Definitely true. The stigma of chronic illness sucks now, but it was MUCH worse back then. People were often hidden away out of sight. penny <usenethod@...> wrote: > It used to be that some people were "sickly" their whole lives, butit didn't seem as common as it does now, but then again we didn't havethe kind of communication back then that we do now. I think people from the days might not have been too impressed if youwere

grouchy and lay around a lot. That might be why CFS is not somuch represented in the culture - though it's still not muchrepresented in the culture even today. At the fin de siecle or however you spell that (1890s), ~10% of thepeople in Western Europe had syphilis. Most of those weren'thalf-paralyzed screaming madmen throwing feces around, but some were.People also died of TB by the busload - like 1% of the entirepopulation per annum or something. These people would have apoplexiesof coughing blood for hours, then die - or survive and wait for it tohappen again. Pretty much everyone would have known TB patientspersonally and it would have been much more common than severe CFS wasor is.Also, many sick people back then were mighty ugly. Boy, I'm notkidding. Syphilis and skin TB commonly caused melting and scabbing ofthe face, such that your nose falls off leaving two big holes... orworse. I've seen the pics.

About the most disturbing thing I've seen.Some people's heads looked like a spoiled side of meat with eyes. Ofcourse this went on right up thru the 1940s. And it can still happenin leprosy when it isn't treated. Of course, it's true the serious stuff tended to be hid away ininstitutions to an extent, but that was probably much less completeback then with the weaker economy. We have a ton more money and a tonbigger government now. Even today you can meet plenty ofhighly-disabled schizophrenics on the street here in the USA(homeless), but they're usually pretty mild. The screaming ravingpeople are all institutionalized. In Berlin there's virtually nostreet people of any kind.

[Guest guest]

That's what bugs me about the "immune deficiency" and "genetic" arguments. It's a bit more subtle than the psychosomatic one, but it still places blame on the victim, implies a kind of genetic inferiority and also sends the message that nothing can be done until we figure out how to manipulate our genes or repair our immune system. I'm all for figuring out genetics and building stronger immune systems, but since those are long term efforts, I'd like for people to focus on blaming the bugs and learning how to attack them. Once people can start speaking knowledgeably about bacteria and infection, I'll back off the preaching. penny Bob Grommes <bob@...> wrote: Pure, true science requires an opposite mindset, but the realities of how tenure and research funding works means that not rocking the boat and maintaining the status quo and sheltering vested interests are all too often necessary career survival skills for researchers, and that creates an intellectually lazy, risk-adverse atmosphere that will never get us anywhere.I will never forget the late, unlamented Strauss complaining about "those goddamned patients" who did not validate his early theories about CFS being a straightforward cortisol deficiency. He became ever after pretty near a one-man crusade within the NIH to psychologize and marginalize CFS

and plunder its meager research funds for other purposes considered more worthy. Here also is an emblematic problem: the overly simplistic allopathic idea that every problem has a simple isolated cause and a pill waiting to be discovered to fix it. And the enraged, blame-the-victim response when reality does not oblige.Well ... it feels slightly better to get that off my chest, I know I'm mostly preaching to the choir here [sigh].--Bob wrote: Whileeveryone who makes an unmodified statement that CFS literally "is" asomatization disorder is implying this lie, some people actuallyelaborate it explicitly. Blows my mind. Read it all the time in the NYTimes and nobody in the world bats an eyelash. Science requires theopposite mindset from these people's.

[Guest guest]

That's such a good point about skin shedding. I remember some doctor somewhere talking about how we need to be careful if we're susceptible to staph as we can be reinfected just through others' shedding skin, which is everywhere. It was recommended that we wash with strong antimicrobials like betadine frequently (just like they do in hospitals). Staph is everywhere and it's becoming more and more problematic and is finally being recognized as a big problem (primarily as an epidemic of skin infections, especially among children). Don't know about you, but seems like a lot of people get sick after flying due to the recirculated air. Just imagine air tight buildings and all that staph floating around... I'm pretty sure I picked my bugs up at the local YMCA pool in a water aerobics class. Cut my foot on the bottom of the chlorine rich pool, and the dang thing

just wouldn't heal. Next thing you know, I had a sinus infection from hell which wouldn't respond to antibiotics. Eventually it "went away", but that's exactly when my migraines started. You can bet I dumped my membership to the YMCA fast. The other thing that occurred to me the other day was that this all happened shortly after I'd had a really grueling crown experience with a bad dentist. I was just prime for an infection to take hold. Up until then, I'd been healthy. Not the highest energy person, but I did okay. After that the scale was tipped and for the next 20 years, my health went sharply downhill. pennydumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: PennyMost people must be watching sesame street. You have Bob trying to add how complex these diseases are...NOW THAT"S BULLSHIT. DON'T PEOPLE FOLLOW HOW PEOPLE GOT ILL.Try this one, INCLINE VILLAGE people congregating in a building or a group of buildings( I don't know how the actual thing goes)..And my,my, a cluster of people all develop cfs...Symptoms sore throat,swollen glands, whatever,whatever..Others kiss and develop mononucleosis, go onto develop cfs, others surgery go onto develop cfs/fibromyalgia, others car accident, whiplash go onto develop cfs/fibromyalgia.The big one that many people answer for in a questionaire here in australia- people recall taking

a course of antibiotics which were handed out like lollies in the past- they clearly recall this as something they did before they fell ill.I believe you can't play with bacterial DNA by guessing therapy because it's becoming obvious a trillion angry bugs ain't good for you.Now what am I supposed to think when this is the evidence that's presented? that something complex is occuring?..I also observe that many on these forums will complain about school buildings and sick building syndrome. Well dust is mainly comprised of skin shedding, and skin shedding is full of bacteria..Imagine the bacterial zoo you can breath in in these settings..1000's of students, over many many years, can leave some serious bugs behind as occurs in hospital settings and the don't touch the patient with out cleaning your hands factor due to the ease of spread of there local resident bugs.tony> > > Rich> > Can you stop using the

words genetic problems, because I'm ready to> > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!> > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not comfortanble that> > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a thousand fold to give> > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.> > cheers tony> >>

[Guest guest]

The pool and slime and what the chlorine can't kill or reach will

nail you IMO.It's also the dentists chair and the practise of placing

several injections into a region with high levels of inflammation and

infection.RECIPE FOR DISASTER IMO.

> >

> > > Rich

> > > Can you stop using the words genetic problems, because I'm

ready

> to

> > > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not comfortanble

> that

> > > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a thousand fold to

> give

> > > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > > cheers tony

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The pool and slime and what the chlorine can't kill or reach will

nail you IMO.It's also the dentists chair and the practise of placing

several injections into a region with high levels of inflammation and

infection.RECIPE FOR DISASTER IMO.

> >

> > > Rich

> > > Can you stop using the words genetic problems, because I'm

ready

> to

> > > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not comfortanble

> that

> > > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a thousand fold to

> give

> > > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > > cheers tony

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Again we bring up another method of someone falling ill..But you'll

still get the fukwits coming on time and time again reassuring us how

complex being i'll for such a long time can become..It can't be as

easy as it's been proven time and time again for the last century to

develop many ilnesses- I'm sure the truckee, and incline could shed

some light, BUT NA we have to be fed some more crap ........

> >

> > > Rich

> > > Can you stop using the words genetic problems, because I'm

ready

> to

> > > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not comfortanble

> that

> > > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a thousand fold to

> give

> > > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > > cheers tony

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, all.

By my current count, the number of people I have heard from who are

trying the simplified GD-MCB treatment is now up to thirty-one. Four

days ago, it was twenty-four. It seems to be avalanching now,

because of the positive reports from those who are trying it. I sure

hope this keeps working!

Rich

> > > > Rich

> > > > Can you stop using the words genetic problems, because I'm

> ready

> > to

> > > > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > > > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not

comfortanble

> > that

> > > > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a thousand fold

to

> > give

> > > > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > > > cheers tony

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No chance it could be because of the incessant PR it's gotten over the last year or so? pennyrvankonynen <richvank@...> wrote: Hi, all.By my current count, the number of people I have heard from who are trying the simplified GD-MCB treatment is now up to thirty-one. Four days ago, it was twenty-four. It seems to be avalanching now, because of the positive reports from those who are trying it. I sure hope this keeps working!Rich> > > > Rich> > > > Can you stop using the words genetic problems, because I'm > ready > > to> > > > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!> > > > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not comfortanble > > that> > > > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a thousand fold to > > give> > > > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.> > > > cheers tony> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Penny.

The simplified treatment was proposed only in late January of this

year. I really didn't expect it to work for very many people, but I

suggested it because so many people told me that they either could

not afford or could not grapple with the complexity of the full Yasko

treatment. There is also a smaller cohort on the full Yasko

treatment, and the longest on that one is about 15 months. That's

probably the one you are referring to.

The first person on the simplified treatment started in February.

She had such good results that she started broadcasting them. A few

more tried it, and also had good results. As of this afternoon I've

now heard from 32 people who are doing it, but I suspect that there

are others who have not contacted me. We should have a pretty good

picture soon of whether this approach will pay off for a significant

subset of PWCs. You might be interested to know that some are

reporting short fevers, suggesting that their immune systems are

coming alive and are going after infections.

Rich

>

> > > > > Rich

> > > > > Can you stop using the words genetic problems, because I'm

> > ready

> > > to

> > > > > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > > > > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not

> comfortanble

> > > that

> > > > > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a thousand fold

> to

> > > give

> > > > > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > > > > cheers tony

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It's nice to hear that there immune systems are coming to life and

chasing the infections. The only problem we have is that our

infections use the immune system to spread, as is the case with many

other smart infections. Keep this post and read it to yourself in a

years time.

But on the other hand if you have the detox system kicking in, what

proof are you offering up..Why don't you try and watch these people's

liver function tests.- Often they are out of range or very close to

the limit in some markers. A good result for a patient, as you have

30 plus at the moment, would be a swing into the normal parameters.

You should basdically follow up with some simple pathology showing

these happy little vegemites getting improving red cell counts,

improving liver functioin tests, and possably healthier kidney

fiu=unction tests..

Simple stuff to use your brain and scan the patient. I'm sure someone

doing well will kick up there low red cell counts. The problem is you

don't have the foggiest that the infections kill off a lot of red

cells(haemolysis) and many are 25% lower in this department than the

rest of the population.

> >

> > > > > > Rich

> > > > > > Can you stop using the words genetic problems, because

I'm

> > > ready

> > > > to

> > > > > > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > > > > > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not

> > comfortanble

> > > > that

> > > > > > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a thousand

fold

> > to

> > > > give

> > > > > > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > > > > > cheers tony

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Rich

You know, I've caught a huge amount of debate on autism recently on

the montel and oprah shows.The freakin medical researchers and

doctors are so far away from what is going in the the home, it's

scary.Just listening to the mothers carrying on... they really want

to strangle people like yourself that come on and give a wheelbarrow

full of shit idea that it works like this.

What I'm trying to say I suppose is that it's evident you researchers

don't walk the walk when it comes to these diseases, your basically

doing everything behind clkosed doors.

tony

> >

> > > > > > Rich

> > > > > > Can you stop using the words genetic problems, because

I'm

> > > ready

> > > > to

> > > > > > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > > > > > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not

> > comfortanble

> > > > that

> > > > > > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a thousand

fold

> > to

> > > > give

> > > > > > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > > > > > cheers tony

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Tony.

I certainly agree that it is desirable to get some concrete before

and after lab data on people trying this treatment. However, the

participation of these people is totally voluntary. They are real

people with real bank accounts (or lack of them) who have to ask real

doctors for lab tests and figure out how to pay for them. I'm

hopeful that some will be able to do this, but it isn't realistic to

expect many of them to do it. Some can barely afford the

supplements, which cost a little over $2.00 per day. I view this as

preliminary hypothesis testing. If the testimony of the people turns

aout to be that it looks good, then the next step will be to do

something a little more controlled and formal. I've already gotten

advice from three M.D.s to do that, but so far I'm holding them off,

because we may need to tweak the supplements some if we don't get

cures this time around. Also, we need to run this for a while to see

if the improvements continue.

Rich

> > >

> > > > > > > Rich

> > > > > > > Can you stop using the words genetic problems, because

> I'm

> > > > ready

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > > > > > > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not

> > > comfortanble

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a thousand

> fold

> > > to

> > > > > give

> > > > > > > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > > > > > > cheers tony

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Tony.

There is a lot of controversy within the autism parent community

about the best treatment, and feelings run very high. I have never

seen people more motivated than the mothers of autistic children.

I haven't been watching Oprah and Montel, but I have attended two

conferences with autism parents, one sponsored by DAN! and one by Amy

Yasko. I've also been interviewed on Autism One Web Radio.

What I've observed is that if a treatment seems to be helping an

autistic child, the parent becomes a " true believer " in that

treatment, and you can understand why.

At both the conferences, I saw children interviewed who had formerly

been seriously autistic, but had become normal as far as I could

tell. Different children have been helped by different treatments.

I gather from some of the things you have written me that your view

is that I live in some kind of an ivory tower, isolated from the

people who have the disorder I'm trying to understand. The fact is

that I spend a good part of my life interacting with these folks. I

am constantly trying out my hypotheses on them and checking them

against what they report to me. If I didn't do that, my hypotheses

would not have any relevance to the real world. I suspect that you

believe that's true in any case. It's true that I seldom actually

lay hands on the people, but I receive reports of physical

examinations of them by people who have been trained to do that and

are far better at it than I would be, let alone the fact that I would

probably be prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license if I

tried to do that. Many times the physical examination of a person

with CFS doesn't turn up very much anyway, even though they may be

quite ill. For what it's worth, I sometimes think that your picture

of how I operate is somewhat less than totally accurate. Whatever

your picture of me might be, I still believe that you and I do share

the goal of trying to help people to regain their health, and I hope

we will both be successful in that.

Rich

> > >

> > > > > > > Rich

> > > > > > > Can you stop using the words genetic problems, because

> I'm

> > > > ready

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > > > > > > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not

> > > comfortanble

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a thousand

> fold

> > > to

> > > > > give

> > > > > > > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > > > > > > cheers tony

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Rich, I for one greatly appreciate that you formulated a simplified

approach for folks to try. I have printed it out and intend to try it

if I need it at some point. I am working on my bizarre one year

headache. If I get it solved, or if I can't get it solved I will

certainly be considering the supplements. I didn't say that quite

right. I don't think I am sick except for this weird head pressure.

So I have to determine if the head pressure is a low grade infection

or some circulatory problem. Worst case scenario is that it is caused

by babesia infection. We shall see.

Anyway, I think you have done a great job with your simple protocol.

I despaired of ever sorting out Yasko's stuff. Can't wait to see how

folks do longterm.

a

>

> Hi, Tony.

>

> There is a lot of controversy within the autism parent community

> about the best treatment, and feelings run very high. I have never

> seen people more motivated than the mothers of autistic children.

>

> I haven't been watching Oprah and Montel, but I have attended two

> conferences with autism parents, one sponsored by DAN! and one by

Amy

> Yasko. I've also been interviewed on Autism One Web Radio.

>

> What I've observed is that if a treatment seems to be helping an

> autistic child, the parent becomes a " true believer " in that

> treatment, and you can understand why.

>

> At both the conferences, I saw children interviewed who had

formerly

> been seriously autistic, but had become normal as far as I could

> tell. Different children have been helped by different treatments.

>

> I gather from some of the things you have written me that your view

> is that I live in some kind of an ivory tower, isolated from the

> people who have the disorder I'm trying to understand. The fact is

> that I spend a good part of my life interacting with these folks.

I

> am constantly trying out my hypotheses on them and checking them

> against what they report to me. If I didn't do that, my hypotheses

> would not have any relevance to the real world. I suspect that you

> believe that's true in any case. It's true that I seldom actually

> lay hands on the people, but I receive reports of physical

> examinations of them by people who have been trained to do that and

> are far better at it than I would be, let alone the fact that I

would

> probably be prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license if

I

> tried to do that. Many times the physical examination of a person

> with CFS doesn't turn up very much anyway, even though they may be

> quite ill. For what it's worth, I sometimes think that your

picture

> of how I operate is somewhat less than totally accurate. Whatever

> your picture of me might be, I still believe that you and I do

share

> the goal of trying to help people to regain their health, and I

hope

> we will both be successful in that.

>

> Rich

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > > > > Rich

> > > > > > > > Can you stop using the words genetic problems,

because

> > I'm

> > > > > ready

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > > > > > > > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not

> > > > comfortanble

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a

thousand

> > fold

> > > > to

> > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > > > > > > > cheers tony

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Rich

Excuse me if i'm ignorant or what but the type of blood tests I'm

discussing are at the peanuts end of the spectrum- your genetic and

PAula's Igenex testing is 100 times more expensive than a full blood

count.

> > > >

> > > > > > > > Rich

> > > > > > > > Can you stop using the words genetic problems,

because

> > I'm

> > > > > ready

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > > > > > > > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not

> > > > comfortanble

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a

thousand

> > fold

> > > > to

> > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > > > > > > > cheers tony

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tony, I think Rich was referring to the tests which show evidence of

detox (you did ask for that evidence, right?). The people who can

afford the whole Yasko protocol do periodic urine tests and they

graph the amounts of various metals that are measured in the urine.

Some people do a reference test before they begin so that they are

sure they are excreting more metals while on the protocol.

- Kate

On May 31, 2007, at 5:40 AM, dumbaussie2000 wrote:

> Rich

> Excuse me if i'm ignorant or what but the type of blood tests I'm

> discussing are at the peanuts end of the spectrum- your genetic and

> PAula's Igenex testing is 100 times more expensive than a full blood

> count.

>

>

> >

> > Hi, Tony.

> >

> > I certainly agree that it is desirable to get some concrete before

> > and after lab data on people trying this treatment. However, the

> > participation of these people is totally voluntary. They are real

> > people with real bank accounts (or lack of them) who have to ask

> real

> > doctors for lab tests and figure out how to pay for them.

[Guest guest]

Tony, I guess you haven't read the many thankful testimonies from

parents of autistic kids on the Yasko protocol (also DAN). I am

really quite amazed. You'd think from what the medical establishment

says that none of this was happening, but some kids are actually

being cured and many are being helped.

- Kate

On May 30, 2007, at 11:18 PM, dumbaussie2000 wrote:

> Rich

> You know, I've caught a huge amount of debate on autism recently on

> the montel and oprah shows.The freakin medical researchers and

> doctors are so far away from what is going in the the home, it's

> scary.Just listening to the mothers carrying on... they really want

> to strangle people like yourself that come on and give a wheelbarrow

> full of shit idea that it works like this.

> What I'm trying to say I suppose is that it's evident you researchers

> don't walk the walk when it comes to these diseases, your basically

> doing everything behind clkosed doors.

> tony

>

[Guest guest]

Tony,

My IgeneX blood tests and urine tests and spinal fluid tests were

FREE to me. Medicare and health insurance covered the entire bill.

Now if I were to buy a microscope that would be costly.

a Carnes

>

>

>

> Rich

> Excuse me if i'm ignorant or what but the type of blood tests I'm

> discussing are at the peanuts end of the spectrum- your genetic and

> PAula's Igenex testing is 100 times more expensive than a full

blood

> count.

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rich

> > > > > > > > > Can you stop using the words genetic problems,

> because

> > > I'm

> > > > > > ready

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > throw prophanities at you!!!!!!!!!!!

> > > > > > > > > Myself, alongside many smnart scientists, are not

> > > > > comfortanble

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > genetic problems all of a sudden multiplied a

> thousand

> > > fold

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > you fukwits a platform to throw that at us ill folk.

> > > > > > > > > cheers tony

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>