Re: Re: Giardia or ?

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I know my toddler and I contracted giardia through the water supply. Actually, there were a bunch of people I talked to who'd gotten it. Docs said it was a "day care" illness, but my daughter didn't go to day care. I swore it had to be the water, there was no other explanation. I was dismissed, but just by chance I read a small article buried in the back of the newspaper about our local water company having to scramble to deal with a "situation" when water testing showed high levels of "fecal matter". The time was right around the time my daughter and I both contracted giardia. Naturally, it was played down, the govt./water district didn't see fit to alert the public, and I wonder to this day how many people may have been sick and left untreated because they didn't know. pennyBarb Peck <egroups1bp@...> wrote: Hey Matt:WHat's your water supply- and have you had it tested?I've known several people with Giardia. All of them got intestinal cramping right after eating, and lost weight because they were on the half an hr after eating.I have not known anyone who had Giardia and was asymptomatic -but I have read it can be mis dx'd as inflammatory bowel syndrome.Have you all (wife, cat and you) submitted fecal specimens?I guess I'd wait for that, as I have heard of several outbreaks of some intestinal thing- fever, cramps, malaise - some sever enough to look

like food poisoning- and it's highly contagious - so I think there's acouple of bad bugs going around right now. It might be viral-as it seems to have a 2 week incubation period, then run a 15 day course.Hang in there.Barb>> Can this be something other than Giardia?:> > My wife:> Intestinal upset> Mild/intermittent diarrhea> Fecal color changing from green to yellow to brown and back > again> Major belching and indigestion esp. after eating a meal, and > especially a meal high in fat or sugar> Waited about 10 days to see if her immune system would > resolve the problem; it didn't; lost 11 pounds; went to doctor.> Fecal test results not in yet, but WBCs are elevated>

Little if no fever> > > My cat> Shortly after my wife's onset, my cat now burps and farts> > Me> Now I have it.> > So this is highly contagious, and not strictly a human pathogen.> > Can this be anything other than Giardia?> > My wife's doc prescribed her 1,500 mg flagyl/day plus 400 mg > moxifloxacin/day for seven days. He doesn't seem to rule out C. > diff, but the belching and bile stuff seems to me incompatible > with that. The flagyl would work against C. diff anyway, but why > would he prescribe a fluoroquinolone? The flagyl dose is > double the US regimen for giardia. After only one day her > peripheral nerves were "buzzing". I've discussed with how a > FQ/nitroimidazole combo might be highly effective against > persistent bacteria, but I was afraid that this combo would be > especially prone to inducing

peripheral neuropathy, and after > only one day on this combo she's got some. She halved the > dose (commensurate with US guidelines for giardia) and > dropped the moxi. The buzzing went away. I don't want to > antagonize her relatively helpful doctor, but I don't see the point > of moxi, and frying her neurons with high-dose flagyl plus moxi is > a concern.> > Giardia is often "asymptomatic" and deliberately left untreated. > What's up with that? Do people get rid of it on their own after a > few months. Is waiting this out a sane option? I found a post on > the Web by a person who thinks her relapsing giardiasis gave > her chronic fatigue and such.> > Several months ago, I developed serum sickness on a combo of > Tini, mino and Azith. I haven't yet had the skin test to find out > what I reacted to. I'd like to know if this might be something > other than

giardia so I can think about deploying something > other than Flagyl (related to Tini). Otherwise I may do a scratch > test myself rather than waiting for a referral. There's some > evidence that Albenza works against giardia. I have some on > hand. Albenza plus Flagyl is reported to be a highly effective > combo, but multiple Filipino migrant workers in Taiwan > developed fatal s- syndrome on a similar combo > (Mebendazole instead of Albendazole, but the two are very > similar; the migrant workers take antiparasitics prophylactically > just prior to biannual mandatory tests that could get them kicked > out of Taiwan for a positive; so it may be that this reaction > occurred several times out of thousands of doses; the authors > didn't give an estimate of incidence; they just advised against the > combo). I would try the less effective, but highly safe Albenza but

> if it doesn't work, how long would I have to wait before deploying > the more effective Flagyl without the enhanced risk of > s-?> > I have a 5-day commitment I can't get out of and I don't know if I'll > have internet access during that time. I may not respond during > that time. But I'd really like ideas about what, other than giardia, > could fit this profile.> > thanks,> Matt>

[Guest guest]

Interesting. In my household, the two of us who have had CFS symptoms have also both had giardia. That would be my daughter when she was still in diapers, and myself. And I know it came from the public water supply and that so many people must have also been infected but never knew it. pennyphagelod <mpalmer@...> wrote: PennyThat could be a critical clue for me. I can't remember if my "IBS" started before my fatigue but it definitely wasn't the other way around.

My illness began in earnest when I was about 13 or 14. I had moved to a rural house with water supplied by a cistern. I think this was just water taken from irrigation ditches/ponds with a little chlorine thrown in. The water flowed above ground through ranching and farming country--collecting crap along the way, I suspect. But maybe the water was taken from a better source. I don't know. I just remember thinking at the time that it was disgusting. Rumor is that chlorine doesn't work so well against Giardia.So many diseases seem to be screened by insensitive tests. The ova & parasites test is supposed to be done in series on 3 to 6 samples before ruling out infestation. But the docs my wife and I have seen think once is plenty. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if a subgroup of PWCs (with IBS) have undiagnosed giardia.The first-line therapy for giardia is flagyl. I had a severe reaction to one of three

abx I was taking several months ago (tini, mino and azith). I scratched solutions of these abx into my skin yesterday, but that didn't work and what literature I can uncover indicates that skin tests only work for the B-lactams. I guess reactions to the other abx may be directed against metabolites. The doc I went to a couple of days ago said the only way to know what I'm allergic to is to take them.I think this new development may be entamoeba, possibly now a co-infection with long-standing giardia. If I were to take the risk of using flagyl (similar to tini) and I was allergic to it then I would need, presumably, prednisone (as I did the first time). But I think I read that prednisone can get you killed if you have invasive amoeba.I cannot overstate how much I regret not having deployed the three antibiotics with about a month delay between each. By jumping in with all three nearly simultaneously I now

have no way of knowing what I reacted to, and apparently no way of finding out except by testing them orally.There are other options for giardia and entamoeba, but they're not the preferred drugs.Matt>> I can't help you there, at least nothing comes to mind other than giardia (or c. diffil.) but I just wanted to comment that I find it very interesting how many pwc I know also have had giardia. Wonder if it's just a coincidence? Or perhaps it's that widespread in general? Or it's somehow related to our illness?> > penny>