Re: Biofilms and Chronic Infection

[Guest guest]

"The biggest thing I hope we have communicated today is that biofilms play a major role in the pathology of chronic wounds. The slough, that innocuous little bunny that is felt to be a nuisance, is not a nuisance – it is the problem – a painful, deadly problem. And that is the biofilm surprise. That there is organized bacteria biofilm, which looks like an innocuous slime yet it can totally destroy our immune response much like this bunny destroyed the wolf. Biofilm is surprising, and biofilm is what keeps wounds from healing." http://www.phageinternational.com/mov/Phage%20Talk_files/frame.htm This is

brilliant. Thankyou. Biofilms are not only "surprising", they're destructive and they're our enemies. Although most of the illustrations you provided are external, open wounds, we're experiencing the same kind of toxic damage at a slower degree on the inside, people just don't realize it. What's really crazy to me is that certain strains of staph organisms are known to produce what is actually called "slime", and yet people who are chronically ill are continuously told that the staph is not a problem and can not be affecting their health. Argh! I'm thinking of looking into flights to Georgia. My biggest concern is waiting until after I have some debridement done in my jaw, and at that point, I may be too ill to travel. But if I do phage therapy prior to debridement, I'm afraid it will be a wasted effort if the existing focal infection in my jaw is allowed to reestablish itself, due to necrosis. I've

got limited funds for treatment. Whatever I do, has got to work. But if I feel certain it will work, then it's worth mortgaging the house, or whatever it takes to get my health back 100%. penny publicspirit <publicspirit@...> wrote: Dear Penny, I have noticed a lot of discussion around biofilms on this forum and would like share the

experiences of our clinic and one of our associates. Phage International recently sponsored two symposiums on bacteriophage therapy: one at the Diabetic Foot Conference (http://www.dfcon.com) and the other at the Symposium on Advanced Wound Care (http://www.sawc.net). These are mainstream medical conferences [and we have been invited to be a part of the Wound Care curriculum at DFCon]. Our symposiums featured two speakers: Zemphira Alavidze, PhD - head of one of the labs at Eliava Institute of Bacteriophages, Virology and Microbiology; and Dr. Randall Wolcott - Director of Wound Care Center in Lubbock, Texas. Dr. Alavidze's presentation was about the history of Eliava Institute; Dr. Wolcott talked about biofilm in chronic wounds. Dr. Wolcott's presentation "Use of Bacteriophage in Treatment of Chronic Wounds" can be found here

(warning, graphic photographs) on our web site; his script can be found at the bottom of the screen:http://www.phageinternational.com/mov/Phage%20Talk_files/frame.htm And Dr. Wolcott's case histories can be found at these two links (also very graphic):http://www.woundcarecenter.net/csphage.htmlWe already know that chronic sinusitis is caused by biofilm and that phage therapy is very effective at clearing this condition. Per Dr. Wolcott's clinical experience, phages are an effective tool for treating these so-called "non-healing wounds". We believe that many of the chronic conditions in the gums, lungs, ears, intestinal tract, urinary tract -- conditions that current research claims "the etiology is not known" are very often biofilms. Nearly

every one of our patients that is treated for a chronic infection – whether it be sinusitis or an intestinal infection -- complains of "chronic fatigue", severe migraines, and other aches and pains; these symptoms go away almost immediately, during the first few days of treatment.

[Guest guest]

Ps

That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing with.Biofilm

infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P

aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg staphs).. these

are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages will attack

the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm formations by

attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

>

> Dear Penny, I have noticed a lot of discussion around biofilms on

> this forum and would like share the experiences of our clinic and

one

> of our associates.

>

> Phage International recently sponsored two symposiums on

> bacteriophage therapy: one at the Diabetic Foot Conference

> (http://www.dfcon.com) and the other at the Symposium on Advanced

> Wound Care (http://www.sawc.net). These are mainstream medical

> conferences [and we have been invited to be a part of the Wound

Care

> curriculum at DFCon]. Our symposiums featured two speakers:

Zemphira

> Alavidze, PhD - head of one of the labs at Eliava Institute of

> Bacteriophages, Virology and Microbiology; and Dr. Randall Wolcott -

> Director of Wound Care Center in Lubbock, Texas. Dr. Alavidze's

> presentation was about the history of Eliava Institute; Dr. Wolcott

> talked about biofilm in chronic wounds. Dr. Wolcott's

> presentation " Use of Bacteriophage in Treatment of Chronic Wounds "

> can be found here (warning, graphic photographs) on our web site;

> his script can be found at the bottom of the screen:

>

> http://www.phageinternational.com/mov/Phage%20Talk_files/frame.htm

>

> And Dr. Wolcott's case histories can be found at these two links

> (also very graphic):

>

> http://www.woundcarecenter.net/csphage.html

>

> We already know that chronic sinusitis is caused by biofilm and

that

> phage therapy is very effective at clearing this condition. Per Dr.

> Wolcott's clinical experience, phages are an effective tool for

> treating these so-called " non-healing wounds " . We believe that many

> of the chronic conditions in the gums, lungs, ears, intestinal

tract,

> urinary tract -- conditions that current research claims " the

> etiology is not known " are very often biofilms. Nearly every one

of

> our patients that is treated for a chronic infection – whether it

be

> sinusitis or an intestinal infection -- complains of " chronic

> fatigue " , severe migraines, and other aches and pains; these

symptoms

> go away almost immediately, during the first few days of treatment.

>

[Guest guest]

Check this out Penny , the "Bronx Bomber," home grown phage, maybe worth contacting the Pittsburgh Bacteriophage Institute,before you dash off to Georgia . i wonder how big their stash of phages is ..

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=47084

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of Penny HouleSent: 16 July 2006 17:39infections Subject: Re: [infections] Biofilms and Chronic Infection

"The biggest thing I hope we have communicated today is that biofilms play a major role in the pathology of chronic wounds. The slough, that innocuous little bunny that is felt to be a nuisance, is not a nuisance – it is the problem – a painful, deadly problem. And that is the biofilm surprise. That there is organized bacteria biofilm, which looks like an innocuous slime yet it can totally destroy our immune response much like this bunny destroyed the wolf. Biofilm is surprising, and biofilm is what keeps wounds from healing."

http://www.phageinternational.com/mov/Phage%20Talk_files/frame.htm

This is brilliant. Thankyou.

Biofilms are not only "surprising", they're destructive and they're our enemies. Although most of the illustrations you provided are external, open wounds, we're experiencing the same kind of toxic damage at a slower degree on the inside, people just don't realize it. What's really crazy to me is that certain strains of staph organisms are known to produce what is actually called "slime", and yet people who are chronically ill are continuously told that the staph is not a problem and can not be affecting their health. Argh!

I'm thinking of looking into flights to Georgia. My biggest concern is waiting until after I have some debridement done in my jaw, and at that point, I may be too ill to travel. But if I do phage therapy prior to debridement, I'm afraid it will be a wasted effort if the existing focal infection in my jaw is allowed to reestablish itself, due to necrosis. I've got limited funds for treatment. Whatever I do, has got to work. But if I feel certain it will work, then it's worth mortgaging the house, or whatever it takes to get my health back 100%.

penny

publicspirit <publicspirit@...> wrote:

Dear Penny, I have noticed a lot of discussion around biofilms on this forum and would like share the experiences of our clinic and one of our associates. Phage International recently sponsored two symposiums on bacteriophage therapy: one at the Diabetic Foot Conference (http://www.dfcon.com) and the other at the Symposium on Advanced Wound Care (http://www.sawc.net). These are mainstream medical conferences [and we have been invited to be a part of the Wound Care curriculum at DFCon]. Our symposiums featured two speakers: Zemphira Alavidze, PhD - head of one of the labs at Eliava Institute of Bacteriophages, Virology and Microbiology; and Dr. Randall Wolcott - Director of Wound Care Center in Lubbock, Texas. Dr. Alavidze's presentation was about the history of Eliava Institute; Dr. Wolcott talked about biofilm in chronic wounds. Dr. Wolcott's presentation "Use of Bacteriophage in Treatment of Chronic Wounds" can be found here (warning, graphic photographs) on our web site; his script can be found at the bottom of the screen:http://www.phageinternational.com/mov/Phage%20Talk_files/frame.htm And Dr. Wolcott's case histories can be found at these two links (also very graphic):http://www.woundcarecenter.net/csphage.htmlWe already know that chronic sinusitis is caused by biofilm and that phage therapy is very effective at clearing this condition. Per Dr. Wolcott's clinical experience, phages are an effective tool for treating these so-called "non-healing wounds". We believe that many of the chronic conditions in the gums, lungs, ears, intestinal tract, urinary tract -- conditions that current research claims "the etiology is not known" are very often biofilms. Nearly every one of our patients that is treated for a chronic infection – whether it be sinusitis or an intestinal infection -- complains of "chronic fatigue", severe migraines, and other aches and pains; these symptoms go away almost immediately, during the first few days of treatment.

[Guest guest]

Encouraging news. Thanks. penny Jaep <Jaep@...> wrote: Check this out Penny , the "Bronx Bomber," home grown phage, maybe worth contacting the Pittsburgh Bacteriophage Institute,before you dash off to Georgia . i wonder how big their stash of phages is .. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=47084 -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of Penny HouleSent: 16 July 2006 17:39infections Subject: Re:

[infections] Biofilms and Chronic Infection "The biggest thing I hope we have communicated today is that biofilms play a major role in the pathology of chronic wounds. The slough, that innocuous little bunny that is felt to be a nuisance, is not a nuisance – it is the problem – a painful, deadly problem. And that is the biofilm surprise. That there is organized bacteria biofilm, which looks like an innocuous slime yet it can totally destroy our immune response much like this bunny destroyed the wolf. Biofilm is surprising, and biofilm is what keeps wounds from healing." http://www.phageinternational.com/mov/Phage%20Talk_files/frame.htm This is

brilliant. Thankyou. Biofilms are not only "surprising", they're destructive and they're our enemies. Although most of the illustrations you provided are external, open wounds, we're experiencing the same kind of toxic damage at a slower degree on the inside, people just don't realize it. What's really crazy to me is that certain strains of staph organisms are known to produce what is actually called "slime", and yet people who are chronically ill are continuously told that the staph is not a problem and can not be affecting their health. Argh! I'm thinking of looking into flights to Georgia. My biggest concern is waiting until after I have some debridement done in my jaw, and at that point, I may be too ill to travel. But if I do phage therapy prior to debridement, I'm afraid it will be a wasted effort if the existing focal infection in my jaw is allowed to reestablish itself, due to necrosis. I've

got limited funds for treatment. Whatever I do, has got to work. But if I feel certain it will work, then it's worth mortgaging the house, or whatever it takes to get my health back 100%. penny publicspirit <publicspirit@...> wrote: Dear Penny, I have noticed a lot of discussion around biofilms on this forum and would like share the experiences of our clinic and one of our associates. Phage International recently sponsored two symposiums on bacteriophage therapy: one at the Diabetic Foot Conference (http://www.dfcon.com) and the other at the Symposium on

Advanced Wound Care (http://www.sawc.net). These are mainstream medical conferences [and we have been invited to be a part of the Wound Care curriculum at DFCon]. Our symposiums featured two speakers: Zemphira Alavidze, PhD - head of one of the labs at Eliava Institute of Bacteriophages, Virology and Microbiology; and Dr. Randall Wolcott - Director of Wound Care Center in Lubbock, Texas. Dr. Alavidze's presentation was about the history of Eliava Institute; Dr. Wolcott talked about biofilm in chronic wounds. Dr. Wolcott's presentation "Use of Bacteriophage in Treatment of Chronic Wounds" can be found here (warning, graphic photographs) on our web site; his script can be found at the bottom of the screen:http://www.phageinternational.com/mov/Phage%20Talk_files/frame.htm And

Dr. Wolcott's case histories can be found at these two links (also very graphic):http://www.woundcarecenter.net/csphage.htmlWe already know that chronic sinusitis is caused by biofilm and that phage therapy is very effective at clearing this condition. Per Dr. Wolcott's clinical experience, phages are an effective tool for treating these so-called "non-healing wounds". We believe that many of the chronic conditions in the gums, lungs, ears, intestinal tract, urinary tract -- conditions that current research claims "the etiology is not known" are very often biofilms. Nearly every one of our patients that is treated for a chronic infection – whether it be sinusitis or an intestinal infection -- complains of "chronic fatigue", severe migraines, and other aches and pains; these symptoms go away almost immediately, during the first few days of

treatment.

[Guest guest]

Until recently Staphylococcus epidermis has not typically been found

to be pathogenic. Lately it is often found to be very agressive and

sometimes more pathogenic than Staphylococcus aureus. Pyophage, the

commercial phage preparation that is most often used for skin

infections that involve these pathogens, contains multiple species of

phages for S. aureus. S. epidermis and P. aeruginosa. Pyophage is

generally very effective against all three of these species and

therefore at taking out the biofilm. In order to be certain that the

commercial Pyophage is going to be effective it is always necessary to

first perform phage sensitivity tests.

Pyophage contains Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, E.coli, P.aeruginosa,

and Proteus phages.

>

> Ps

> That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing with.Biofilm

> infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P

> aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg staphs).. these

> are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages will attack

> the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm formations by

> attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

[Guest guest]

Buddy

That is great news .... I nearly got myself some six phage out of

cypress- that was pretty new according to my scientist friend in

georgia...The unfortunate experience I've had with phage is the

refrigerated transport cost me a packet- the phage was free...I hope

they try some of this multi phage stuff on people on these forums and

solve some real systemic problems many face.

-- In infections , " publicspirit "

<publicspirit@...> wrote:

>

> Until recently Staphylococcus epidermis has not typically been found

> to be pathogenic. Lately it is often found to be very agressive and

> sometimes more pathogenic than Staphylococcus aureus. Pyophage, the

> commercial phage preparation that is most often used for skin

> infections that involve these pathogens, contains multiple species

of

> phages for S. aureus. S. epidermis and P. aeruginosa. Pyophage is

> generally very effective against all three of these species and

> therefore at taking out the biofilm. In order to be certain that the

> commercial Pyophage is going to be effective it is always necessary

to

> first perform phage sensitivity tests.

>

> Pyophage contains Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, E.coli,

P.aeruginosa,

> and Proteus phages.

>

>

>

> >

> > Ps

> > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing with.Biofilm

> > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P

> > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg staphs)..

these

> > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages will

attack

> > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm formations by

> > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

>

[Guest guest]

publicspirit wrote: Pyophage contains Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, E.coli, P.aeruginosa, and Proteus phages. Gee, this is an all-purpose phage. Covers most of my personal favorites. :-) penny note to others: Staph epi is a coag. neg. staph. One that most docs dismiss as "harmless". It's really not the case. It's a big slime producer as well. http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic2166.htm Note the following from the above link. Causes: Predisposing factors for staphylococcal infections include the following: Neutropenia or neutrophil dysfunction Diabetes Intravenous drug abuse Foreign bodies, including intravascular

catheters Trauma #1 is indicative of a pretty serious immune failure (low white cells). #s 2, 3 & 4 are pretty self explanatory. But people always seem to forget #5. Trauma. Think about this the next time you have dental work done, or break a bone, or have some minor surgical procedure, or experience whiplash. We think we get over these things, but with staph all around and on us, if a particularly resistant strain gains access to one of these injured areas, a low grade, long term infection can ensue. , you might find this interesting: Characterization of clinically significant strains of coagulase-negative staphylococci. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=270788 publicspirit <publicspirit@...> wrote: Until recently Staphylococcus epidermis has not typically been foundto be pathogenic. Lately it is often found to be very agressive andsometimes more pathogenic than Staphylococcus aureus. Pyophage, thecommercial phage preparation that is most often used for skininfections that involve these pathogens, contains multiple species ofphages for S. aureus. S. epidermis and P. aeruginosa. Pyophage isgenerally very effective against all three of these species andtherefore at taking out the biofilm. In order to be certain that thecommercial Pyophage is going to be effective it is always necessary tofirst perform phage sensitivity tests.Pyophage contains Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, E.coli, P.aeruginosa,and Proteus phages.>> Ps> That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing with.Biofilm > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg staphs).. these > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages will attack > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm formations by > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

[Guest guest]

I think what's being accomplished here with phage therapy sounds very encouraging and promising. Am I understanding you correctly that as long as there is any remaining bacteria in your body, the appropriate phage will stay alive (replicate) to combat it? If that's the case, that's very good news. So far, the biggest problem we seem to be facing is relapse, because despite some success with antimicrobials, we can never quite eradicate the entire infection. I'm curious if you've got any data on the relapse rate of people who've recovered with phage therapy. thanks, pennypublicspirit <publicspirit@...> wrote: Until recently Staphylococcus epidermis has not typically been foundto be pathogenic. Lately it is often found to be very agressive andsometimes more pathogenic than Staphylococcus aureus. Pyophage, thecommercial phage preparation that is most often used for skininfections that involve these pathogens, contains multiple species ofphages for S. aureus. S. epidermis and P. aeruginosa. Pyophage isgenerally very effective against all three of these species andtherefore at taking out the biofilm. In order to be certain that thecommercial Pyophage is going to be effective it is always necessary tofirst perform phage sensitivity tests.Pyophage contains Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, E.coli,

P.aeruginosa,and Proteus phages.>> Ps> That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing with.Biofilm > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg staphs).. these > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages will attack > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm formations by > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

[Guest guest]

Well, I'm getting pretty game if I can feel confident about the relapse factor, and the whole debridement thing. If this works, it could be HUGE for our community. Maybe I'll take Sherri with me. :-) So Tony, I know you did your own phage therapy with the help of your Georgian scientist friends. And I've been wondering, do you think there's any chance that the phages stayed in your system and kept on working along with all your other antimicrobials, and that's why you're well today????? I'm not saying you didn't experience the amx effects you've reported with abx, arsenic, bleach, iodine, nystatin etc, but I'm wondering if these phages perhaps were working in the background as well. I think about it now and your treatment was most definitely intense, but compared to most of us, it's been relatively short and did nothing but progress. No relapses. I know you were like a kamakazi in your approach, take no

prisoners kind of thing, but wow. pennydumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: BuddyThat is great news .... I nearly got myself some six phage out of cypress- that was pretty new according to my scientist friend in georgia...The unfortunate experience I've had with phage is the refrigerated transport cost me a packet- the phage was free...I hope they try some of this multi phage stuff on people on these forums and solve some real systemic problems many face.-- In infections , "publicspirit" <publicspirit@...> wrote:>> Until recently Staphylococcus epidermis has not typically been found> to be pathogenic. Lately it is often found to be very agressive and> sometimes more pathogenic than Staphylococcus aureus. Pyophage, the> commercial phage preparation that is most often used for skin> infections that involve these pathogens, contains multiple species of> phages for S. aureus. S. epidermis and P. aeruginosa. Pyophage is> generally very effective against all three of these species and> therefore at taking out the biofilm. In order to be certain that the> commercial Pyophage is going to be effective it is always necessary to> first perform phage sensitivity tests.> > Pyophage contains Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, E.coli,

P.aeruginosa,> and Proteus phages.> > > > >> > Ps> > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing with.Biofilm > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg staphs).. these > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages will attack > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm formations by > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.>

[Guest guest]

Tony,

please pardon me for asking, but what was your diagnosis, what were

the pathogens involved, and why did you not go to Georgia (as opposed

to Cyprus) for treatment by a physician with experience using phages?

Thanks,

> > >

> > > Ps

> > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing

with.Biofilm

> > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P

> > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg staphs)..

> these

> > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages will

> attack

> > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm formations

by

> > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Chris

my georgian friend gave some cypress chick some phage for something

or other-(basically this new six phage)and she said she could spare

some so I can have a bit of a play.... getting a sample out of

cypress was a lot easier than trying to get some out of a frozen

tblisi at the time...They(georgians) also vacationed in india and

there was another oppurtunity to get some phage.

is it possable to get some vials out of your mob.I'd love to

have a play with my organisms--pseudonomas, an aggresive staph

epidermis(staph haemolyticus... api staph identification)I also have

a staph areus in an elbow that's a tad sore....biofilm sinus disease

is my best diagnosis and the heart,vascular , kidney, arthritic

problems that disseminate from there ... which I keep on improving

with my therapies, albeit slow but positive.

> > > >

> > > > Ps

> > > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing

> with.Biofilm

> > > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P

> > > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg

staphs)..

> > these

> > > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages will

> > attack

> > > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm

formations

> by

> > > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Penny

My challenges were a bit different because I had a smoking and

constant poker night lifestyle for several years that made my

scenario 'OUT THERE'.... hence my needing a serious aggresive

approach.I think the group that I spent many years with is mostly

deceased.. but they were older, yet the lifestyle definately killed

them.So what approach do you think a scenario like this needs? I kept

stepping it up to understand how big my problem really is and i

understood my infection better..These infections travel to the

extremes of your body with the aid of these biofilms.The brain is not

immune IMO.

tony

> > >

> > > Ps

> > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing

with.Biofilm

> > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P

> > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg staphs)..

> these

> > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages will

> attack

> > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm formations

by

> > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Penny

I only got some staph areus phage .. it was a positive treatment but

not the targetting that I hoped for, as I'm comfortable that my staph

epi is my main culprit.-

-- In infections , Penny Houle

<pennyhoule@...> wrote:

>

> Well, I'm getting pretty game if I can feel confident about the

relapse factor, and the whole debridement thing. If this works, it

could be HUGE for our community. Maybe I'll take Sherri with me. :-)

>

> So Tony, I know you did your own phage therapy with the help of

your Georgian scientist friends. And I've been wondering, do you

think there's any chance that the phages stayed in your system and

kept on working along with all your other antimicrobials, and that's

why you're well today????? I'm not saying you didn't experience the

amx effects you've reported with abx, arsenic, bleach, iodine,

nystatin etc, but I'm wondering if these phages perhaps were working

in the background as well. I think about it now and your treatment

was most definitely intense, but compared to most of us, it's been

relatively short and did nothing but progress. No relapses. I know

you were like a kamakazi in your approach, take no prisoners kind of

thing, but wow.

>

> penny

>

> dumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote:

> Buddy

> That is great news .... I nearly got myself some six phage out of

> cypress- that was pretty new according to my scientist friend in

> georgia...The unfortunate experience I've had with phage is the

> refrigerated transport cost me a packet- the phage was free...I

hope

> they try some of this multi phage stuff on people on these forums

and

> solve some real systemic problems many face.

>

> -- In infections , " publicspirit "

> <publicspirit@> wrote:

> >

> > Until recently Staphylococcus epidermis has not typically been

found

> > to be pathogenic. Lately it is often found to be very agressive

and

> > sometimes more pathogenic than Staphylococcus aureus. Pyophage,

the

> > commercial phage preparation that is most often used for skin

> > infections that involve these pathogens, contains multiple

species

> of

> > phages for S. aureus. S. epidermis and P. aeruginosa. Pyophage is

> > generally very effective against all three of these species and

> > therefore at taking out the biofilm. In order to be certain that

the

> > commercial Pyophage is going to be effective it is always

necessary

> to

> > first perform phage sensitivity tests.

> >

> > Pyophage contains Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, E.coli,

> P.aeruginosa,

> > and Proteus phages.

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Ps

> > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing

with.Biofilm

> > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P

> > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg staphs)..

> these

> > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages will

> attack

> > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm formations

by

> > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

For those who don't know, smoking is a huge no-no if you've got osteomyelitis. Most docs will refuse to treat a smoker with OM because they feel it renders the treatment ineffective. Tony has applied that principal to infection in general. I also think it's interesting that he's still obsessed with his organisms, even though he's doing great, working out at the gym everyday, and playing soccer again. I mean his complaint is a sore elbow? I hope he doesn't have obsessive compulsive disorder. lol! penny dumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: PennyMy challenges were a bit different because I had a smoking and constant poker night lifestyle for several years that made my scenario 'OUT THERE'.... hence my needing a serious aggresive approach.I think the group that I spent many years with is mostly deceased.. but they were older, yet the lifestyle definately killed them.So what approach do you think a scenario like this needs? I kept stepping it up to understand how big my problem really is and i understood my infection better..These infections travel to the extremes of your body with the aid of these biofilms.The brain is not immune IMO.tony> >

>> > > Ps> > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing with.Biofilm > > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P > > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg staphs).. > these > > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages will > attack > > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm formations by > > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.> >>

[Guest guest]

Oh, I see. But still, staph a. is bad for the bones, etc., so maybe eradicating that shifted the balance in your favor? pennydumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: PennyI only got some staph areus phage .. it was a positive treatment but not the targetting that I hoped for, as I'm comfortable that my staph epi is my main culprit.> > >> > > Ps> > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing with.Biofilm > > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P > > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg staphs).. > these > > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages will > attack > > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm formations by > > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony,

It sounds like your friend sent you some Pyophage cocktail; Pyophage

is the commercial product that contains Staphylococcus,

Streptococcus, E.coli, Proteus and Pseudomonas phages. I can confirm

for you again that Pyophage contains both S. aureus and S. epidermis

phages. You " used " it and yet you are still struggling with

Pseudomonas and Staph epidermis infections. I would suggest that your

treatments are a failure!

Why would you think this has happened, given that clearing an

infection with phages should normally take no more than 10 days? What

do you think went wrong?

Chris

> > > > >

> > > > > Ps

> > > > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing

> > with.Biofilm

> > > > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P

> > > > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg

> staphs)..

> > > these

> > > > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages

will

> > > attack

> > > > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm

> formations

> > by

> > > > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tony's healthier than all of us. At least everyone I know. He just won't let down his guard. He still has a sore elbow. :-) Compared to where he started...that's amazing. Plus, I think his scientist friend just recently sent the cocktail to someone in Cypress, but he wasn't able to get any. He treated himself with the staph a. phage sent from Georgia several years ago, but the transport expense was huge due to temperature control requirements. pennypublicspirit <publicspirit@...> wrote: Hi Tony,It sounds like your friend sent you some Pyophage cocktail; Pyophage is the commercial product that contains Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, E.coli, Proteus and Pseudomonas phages. I can confirm for you again that Pyophage contains both S. aureus and S. epidermis phages. You "used" it and yet you are still struggling with Pseudomonas and Staph epidermis infections. I would suggest that your treatments are a failure!Why would you think this has happened, given that clearing an infection with phages should normally take no more than 10 days? What do you think went wrong?Chris> > > > >> > > > > Ps> > > > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing > > with.Biofilm > > > > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P > > > > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg > staphs).. > > > these > > > > > are also mentioned in your wound

care posts.What phages will > > > attack > > > > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm > formations > > by > > > > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Chris

I didn't get the six phage at the time.I tried my hardest because my

friend in georgia sent X amount to cypress-yet all my phone calls to

the cypress end seemed there was going to be no problems... yet I

didn't get it....I didn't really push the envelope at the time either

because refrigerated freight cost me 778 dollars to get my first

batch of staph areus phage..

Penny the elbow that's sore goes back to 1990 carrying my one year

old around hawaii all day, it really has nothing to do with what came

10 years later.... but I suppose it's a precursor of things to come

when an area keeps paining you.

So I'm still keen to have a play with pyophage.. if I can buy some

from your end?I have no doubt that pseudonomads and staph epi are

deep into the skull still so I don't have a problem with continuing

therapy.I think what you'll observe chris is that some people have

such extensive infections that you often hear of people having there

faced peeled back so that all the mess can be scraped clean.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ps

> > > > > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing

> > > with.Biofilm

> > > > > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P

> > > > > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg

> > staphs)..

> > > > these

> > > > > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages

> will

> > > > attack

> > > > > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm

> > formations

> > > by

> > > > > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Chris

You have a lot to learn about CHRONIC INFECTIONS and clearing them in

ten days...These infections could be cleared in six weeks if someone

removed your skin and cleaned the bones and the sub surface soft

tissue and fat that plays host to these infections.

Also I think the skin of many autoimmune sufferers no longer works

due to the trillion organisms involved in just the skin aspect of

these infections.I come to this conclusion because people are alway's

hot tubbing-infrared spa's- anything that gets things working in the

dermis seems to help many sufferers.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ps

> > > > > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing

> > > with.Biofilm

> > > > > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P

> > > > > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg

> > staphs)..

> > > > these

> > > > > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages

> will

> > > > attack

> > > > > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm

> > formations

> > > by

> > > > > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Penny

I really don't complain about the elbow.. I just think that when you

have minor issues u may just relapse. I think it took a lifetime of a

certain lifestyle to land you here so you can't fix it in one

week.You also can't fix a bad cardiovascular system in one month-

which seems most of us are undiagnosed with..My blood pressure and

pulse would sit around 140/80..160/80 with a pulse of 90-100-120.Now

I sit in the 120/70 70-65 pulse, mind you I didn't get excited when

on several occasions I hit the 80/50 90/50 reading thank goodness it

didn't stay low.. So half the battle is aimed at the infection and

half the battle is aimed at the age related diseases which these

infections inflict on most of the population.I also feel that doing

the hard work before you need any joints replaced beats the heck out

of doing all this hard work after replacing a joint.

> > > >

> > > > Ps

> > > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing

> with.Biofilm

> > > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P

> > > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg

staphs)..

> > these

> > > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages will

> > attack

> > > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm

formations

> by

> > > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tony, what I was trying to get at is that I do not believe that self-

treatment is a good idea, and particularly with phage. I think that

you are proving this to yourself given your continued struggle with

P. aeruginosa and S. epidermis. Since phages are host-specific,

buying phages over the counter is not a good bet, particularly

for " foreigners " . About 60% of our foreign patients have infections

that are resistant to that Pyophage cocktail, and it is therefore

necessary to make a custom cocktail for their treatment. The Pyophage

that is commercially available in Georgia contains phages that are

targeted at the most common Georgian bacterial strains. Just because

you have, for example, an S. aureus phage in the cocktail, it doesn't

mean it will work for the hundreds of strains of S. aureus that are

out there and common in the various regions of the world. Pyophage

probably contains tens or hundreds of different Staph phages. Still

doesn't mean they work for all strains of Staph.

The phages are only a small, albeit very important part of phage

therapy. The treatment by medical professionals is what makes it

work. Phages were another tool in the kit in the Soviet medical

system, which otherwise, in terms of medical science, was at its time

not that different from our own medical system. The Russians do seem

to have forgotten about phage therapy, except for some of the older

physicians there; those guys will sometimes make trips to Georgia to

acquire phages and some phage products for use in their own

practices.

The Georgian people don't typically self-treat serious chronic

infections. They go to a physician, who takes a culture of the

infection and writes a prescription for phages. The prescription is

taken to a diagnostic laboratory, where a microbiologist or a medical

intern will test the infection with the commercial Pyophage, or

perhaps other preparations, for example if Candida is present. [i

just visited the diagnostic laboratory that is at the gate of Eliava

Institute, about 4 weeks ago.] If this phage sensitivity testing

shows that the infection is resistant to the phage preparation, the

patient is out of luck, the commercial preparation won't work and

there is no point in wasting their money. There are of course other

alternatives for Georgians, and the odds are relatively low that this

out of luck situation will happen for the local population. Those

senior Russian physicians that I mentioned above would of course

perform a similar type of sensitivity test for their patients.

For about 3 to 4 times the amount of money that you spent on

refrigeration (depending of course on what is your condition), you

can have medical professionals in Georgia do a thorough diagnosis,

sensitivity testing and matching of the phages to your infection,

treatment in the appropriate area(s) of your body, and continued

laboratory testing until your infection is cleared. The duration of

treatment, again depending on what your condition is, would be around

10 days.

Sorry Tony, but I believe that the odds of success from self-

treatment with phages are very low.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ps

> > > > > > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing

> > > > with.Biofilm

> > > > > > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P

> > > > > > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg

> > > staphs)..

> > > > > these

> > > > > > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages

> > will

> > > > > attack

> > > > > > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm

> > > formations

> > > > by

> > > > > > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tony, you have some interesting theories. I can only respond to that

by stating that I am writing about the clinical experience at ours

and many other professionally run clinics that use bacteriophages in

conjunction with traditional medical practices. This is also

supported by the scientific literature.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ps

> > > > > > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing

> > > > with.Biofilm

> > > > > > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P

> > > > > > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg

> > > staphs)..

> > > > > these

> > > > > > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages

> > will

> > > > > attack

> > > > > > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm

> > > formations

> > > > by

> > > > > > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

normally I'd agree. But you don't know Tony. He wouldn't be well today if he hadn't self treated. And he did it brilliantly despite the severity of his illness. He was way ahead of everyone I know. He talked to the staph people at Newcastle and experimented with the staph vaccine when no one even knew about it. He did phage therapy 3 years ago through a scientist friend he made in Georgia. He did Arsenic therapy with the help of the Italian researcher, Walt Tarello, several years ago. He identified that his illness was caused by an infection when everyone was screaming at him that he was insane and kicking him off discussion forums. He got a top microbiologist in Australia to teach him how to i.d. organisms and their sensitivities, toxicities, and he set up his own lab at home. His self treatments were so successful, that his doctor, who'd been useless, was so impressed that he prescribes anything Tony wants. Personally, if it weren't for Tony, I'm not sure I'd be standing today. I'd let him treat me over every doc I've met, I have that much faith in his ability to problem solve. He may not always be able to explain things technically or scientifically, but when it comes down to it, he knows how to fight this illness better than anybody I know. Barb is another genius. When you look at her insane illness history, and the severity of it, her self treatments and current good health are pretty miraculous. penny publicspirit <publicspirit@...> wrote: Tony, what I was trying to get at is that I do not believe that self-treatment is a good idea, and particularly with phage. I think that you are proving this to yourself given your continued struggle with P. aeruginosa and S. epidermis. Since phages are host-specific, buying phages over the counter is not a good bet, particularly for "foreigners". About 60% of our foreign patients have infections that are resistant to that Pyophage cocktail, and it is therefore necessary to make a custom cocktail for their treatment. The Pyophage that is commercially available in Georgia contains phages that are targeted at the most common Georgian bacterial strains. Just because you have, for example, an S. aureus phage in the cocktail, it doesn't mean it will work for the hundreds of strains of S. aureus that

are out there and common in the various regions of the world. Pyophage probably contains tens or hundreds of different Staph phages. Still doesn't mean they work for all strains of Staph.The phages are only a small, albeit very important part of phage therapy. The treatment by medical professionals is what makes it work. Phages were another tool in the kit in the Soviet medical system, which otherwise, in terms of medical science, was at its time not that different from our own medical system. The Russians do seem to have forgotten about phage therapy, except for some of the older physicians there; those guys will sometimes make trips to Georgia to acquire phages and some phage products for use in their own practices. The Georgian people don't typically self-treat serious chronic infections. They go to a physician, who takes a culture of the infection and writes a prescription for phages. The prescription

is taken to a diagnostic laboratory, where a microbiologist or a medical intern will test the infection with the commercial Pyophage, or perhaps other preparations, for example if Candida is present. [i just visited the diagnostic laboratory that is at the gate of Eliava Institute, about 4 weeks ago.] If this phage sensitivity testing shows that the infection is resistant to the phage preparation, the patient is out of luck, the commercial preparation won't work and there is no point in wasting their money. There are of course other alternatives for Georgians, and the odds are relatively low that this out of luck situation will happen for the local population. Those senior Russian physicians that I mentioned above would of course perform a similar type of sensitivity test for their patients.For about 3 to 4 times the amount of money that you spent on refrigeration (depending of course on what is your condition),

you can have medical professionals in Georgia do a thorough diagnosis, sensitivity testing and matching of the phages to your infection, treatment in the appropriate area(s) of your body, and continued laboratory testing until your infection is cleared. The duration of treatment, again depending on what your condition is, would be around 10 days. Sorry Tony, but I believe that the odds of success from self-treatment with phages are very low.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Ps> > > > > > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing > > > > with.Biofilm > > > > > > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P > > > > > > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg > > > staphs).. > > > > > these > > > > > > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages > > will > > > > > attack > > > > > > >

the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm > > > formations > > > > by > > > > > > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

can you point me to any research showing people with long standing chronic infections being totally cleared in 10 days? Considering all the hard core treatment many of us have been through, I have to admit, this sounds like a fairy tale. Also, could you point us to research addressing the relapse rate? thanks so much, pennypublicspirit <publicspirit@...> wrote: Tony, you have some interesting theories. I can only respond to that by

stating that I am writing about the clinical experience at ours and many other professionally run clinics that use bacteriophages in conjunction with traditional medical practices. This is also supported by the scientific literature.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Ps> > > > > > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing > > > > with.Biofilm > > > > > > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow P > > > > > > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg > > > staphs).. > > > > > these > > > >

> > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What phages > > will > > > > > attack > > > > > > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm > > > formations > > > > by > > > > > > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Penny and Tony, since Tony is a trained physician, his odds of

success are greatly improved, of course. Learning phage therapy

requires about a semester at a medical school, as I understand. Most

important: unless you have a lab select the correct phages for

treatment, your chances of success are low.

Tony, you sound like a great entrepreneur and no doubt you have saved

your own life.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ps

> > > > > > > > That is a spot on observation of what we are dealing

> > > > > with.Biofilm

> > > > > > > > infections of the sinuses. Many on these forums grow

P

> > > > > > > > aeuriganosa /staph areus and staph epidermis(coag neg

> > > > staphs)..

> > > > > > these

> > > > > > > > are also mentioned in your wound care posts.What

phages

> > > will

> > > > > > attack

> > > > > > > > the coag neg staphs or can you take out the biofilm

> > > > formations

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > > attacking the P aeuriganosa with phage therapy.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>