Re: acute infection ... running

[Guest guest]

Um ... sorry, but I can't resist asking. How does one reconcile a dx of

CFS with the ability to run 6 miles. Much less walk 6 miles. For that

matter how does someone who can perform that well GET a dx of CFS? I

can't run that long, and I'm relatively healthy.

My wife would love to know your secret, as she can't get past the

mailbox out front. I also suspect that her disability carrier would be

very interested if she suddenly developed the ability to jog around the

neighborhood.

Mind you, I'm not suggesting you're not sick ... only that CFS is a

pretty useless dx if it can describe someone so debilitated they can

barely remain upright, as well as someone who can sustain a pace of 7.2

mph for 50 minutes.

Enlighten me, please.

--Bob

wrote:

>

> I seem to have had my first acute infection since getting CFS, but an

> oddly brief one. First I had a unilateral axillary lymphadenitis for a

> few days - which I've never had before except once last year. Then on

> saturday I came home and went to bed with myalgia, and spiked a 100.6*

> F. But my temp was normal 6 hours later, and the next day I was

> completely recovered, except the lymph node is still going down.

>

> Also been running farther - went 6 miles last night in 50:00, or

> 8:20 /mile.

>

[Guest guest]

Lots of combination abx (19 months so far). For me the apparantly

effective treatment was 400 mg doxy + 2 g tinidazole daily (at 60

kg). This gave me a big breakthru after ~4 months. I have few, and

light symptoms at this point except during rainy weather, and am

studying full time. I plan to begin a more intensive therapy soon.

My fatigue was never extreme, as I could walk a mile most days prior

to treatment, tho definitely no further. I could usually sit in a

chair for a few hours at a time before resting a few hours in bed. I

consistently had awful flu-like nausea/anorexia/myalgia/malaise,

significant cognitive impairment, and indescribable depression and

agitation, such that I literally lay around contemplating death for

hours on end on a daily basis (this was also partly a function of

impaired control over mentation). I awoke ~7-15 times per night, had

1000s of heart palpitations per day, etc.

That was the baseline on a month scale, minus a 75% spontaneous

remission of a couple weeks. I also had non-sustained experiences

(hours to a couple weeks) like being unable to sit up except to eat,

having hands be too weak to write, being able to read for only 15

minutes at a time, being totally unable to understand conversation,

etc.

I started getting sick in May 2003, more rapidly after Nov 2003,

reached full development in Jun 2004, started antimicrobials Nov

2004, started tini + doxy May 2005, started running and kayaking Sept

2005.

> Um ... sorry, but I can't resist asking. How does one reconcile a

dx of

> CFS with the ability to run 6 miles. Much less walk 6 miles. For

that

> matter how does someone who can perform that well GET a dx of CFS?

I

> can't run that long, and I'm relatively healthy.

>

> My wife would love to know your secret, as she can't get past the

> mailbox out front. I also suspect that her disability carrier

would be

> very interested if she suddenly developed the ability to jog around

the

> neighborhood.

>

> Mind you, I'm not suggesting you're not sick ... only that CFS is a

> pretty useless dx if it can describe someone so debilitated they

can

> barely remain upright, as well as someone who can sustain a pace of

7.2

> mph for 50 minutes.

>

> Enlighten me, please.

>

> --Bob

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . It sounds to me like you're in a pretty complete

remission. The autonomic nervous system symptoms you describe are

pretty awful and I'm glad you don't have to deal with that anymore.

May I ask, what was your age at onset?

--Bob

wrote:

>

> Lots of combination abx (19 months so far). For me the apparantly

> effective treatment was 400 mg doxy + 2 g tinidazole daily (at 60

> kg). This gave me a big breakthru after ~4 months. I have few, and

> light symptoms at this point except during rainy weather, and am

> studying full time. I plan to begin a more intensive therapy soon.

>

> My fatigue was never extreme, as I could walk a mile most days prior

> to treatment, tho definitely no further. I could usually sit in a

> chair for a few hours at a time before resting a few hours in bed. I

> consistently had awful flu-like nausea/anorexia/myalgia/malaise,

> significant cognitive impairment, and indescribable depression and

> agitation, such that I literally lay around contemplating death for

> hours on end on a daily basis (this was also partly a function of

> impaired control over mentation). I awoke ~7-15 times per night, had

> 1000s of heart palpitations per day, etc.

>

> That was the baseline on a month scale, minus a 75% spontaneous

> remission of a couple weeks. I also had non-sustained experiences

> (hours to a couple weeks) like being unable to sit up except to eat,

> having hands be too weak to write, being able to read for only 15

> minutes at a time, being totally unable to understand conversation,

> etc.

>

> I started getting sick in May 2003, more rapidly after Nov 2003,

> reached full development in Jun 2004, started antimicrobials Nov

> 2004, started tini + doxy May 2005, started running and kayaking Sept

> 2005.

>

> > Um ... sorry, but I can't resist asking. How does one reconcile a

> dx of

> > CFS with the ability to run 6 miles. Much less walk 6 miles. For

> that

> > matter how does someone who can perform that well GET a dx of CFS?

> I

> > can't run that long, and I'm relatively healthy.

> >

> > My wife would love to know your secret, as she can't get past the

> > mailbox out front. I also suspect that her disability carrier

> would be

> > very interested if she suddenly developed the ability to jog around

> the

> > neighborhood.

> >

> > Mind you, I'm not suggesting you're not sick ... only that CFS is a

> > pretty useless dx if it can describe someone so debilitated they

> can

> > barely remain upright, as well as someone who can sustain a pace of

> 7.2

> > mph for 50 minutes.

> >

> > Enlighten me, please.

> >

> > --Bob

>

>

[Guest guest]

interesting set of accounts that I know can relate too, good to hear

your doing so much better .

b

On 4 Jul 2006, at 19:29, wrote:

> Lots of combination abx (19 months so far). For me the apparantly

> effective treatment was 400 mg doxy + 2 g tinidazole daily (at 60

> kg). This gave me a big breakthru after ~4 months. I have few, and

> light symptoms at this point except during rainy weather, and am

> studying full time. I plan to begin a more intensive therapy soon.

>

> My fatigue was never extreme, as I could walk a mile most days prior

> to treatment, tho definitely no further. I could usually sit in a

> chair for a few hours at a time before resting a few hours in bed. I

> consistently had awful flu-like nausea/anorexia/myalgia/malaise,

> significant cognitive impairment, and indescribable depression and

> agitation, such that I literally lay around contemplating death for

> hours on end on a daily basis (this was also partly a function of

> impaired control over mentation). I awoke ~7-15 times per night, had

> 1000s of heart palpitations per day, etc.

>

> That was the baseline on a month scale, minus a 75% spontaneous

> remission of a couple weeks. I also had non-sustained experiences

> (hours to a couple weeks) like being unable to sit up except to eat,

> having hands be too weak to write, being able to read for only 15

> minutes at a time, being totally unable to understand conversation,

> etc.

>

> I started getting sick in May 2003, more rapidly after Nov 2003,

> reached full development in Jun 2004, started antimicrobials Nov

> 2004, started tini + doxy May 2005, started running and kayaking Sept

> 2005.

>

> > Um ... sorry, but I can't resist asking. How does one reconcile a

> dx of

> > CFS with the ability to run 6 miles. Much less walk 6 miles. For

> that

> > matter how does someone who can perform that well GET a dx of CFS?

> I

> > can't run that long, and I'm relatively healthy.

> >

> > My wife would love to know your secret, as she can't get past the

> > mailbox out front. I also suspect that her disability carrier

> would be

> > very interested if she suddenly developed the ability to jog around

> the

> > neighborhood.

> >

> > Mind you, I'm not suggesting you're not sick ... only that CFS is a

> > pretty useless dx if it can describe someone so debilitated they

> can

> > barely remain upright, as well as someone who can sustain a pace of

> 7.2

> > mph for 50 minutes.

> >

> > Enlighten me, please.

> >

> > --Bob

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

22/23, I'm 25 now.

--- In infections , Bob Grommes <bob@...>

wrote:

>

> Thanks, . It sounds to me like you're in a pretty complete

> remission. The autonomic nervous system symptoms you describe are

> pretty awful and I'm glad you don't have to deal with that anymore.

>

> May I ask, what was your age at onset?

>

> --Bob

>

[Guest guest]

Dr Cheney had a theory about CFS, which I suspect has a lot of truth to

it, that the reason that a small subset of CFS patients substantially

(and even completely) recover is connected to levels of HGH in their

body. Because the younger you are at onset, the more likely you are to

be one of those lucky few. Growth hormone levels start to fall off

fairly significantly in your early 20's, but you may be just young

enough to have benefited from that. In your case, rest and the abx may

have had enough synergy with your HGH levels to see you out of the woods.

Be careful with the physical training though ... people can and do

relapse. Also, you might consider checking your IGF-1 levels over the

years and supplement with HGH injections if you can afford them, to keep

those levels up as you get older. Regrettably, many CFS patients can't

do that while they are sick, as their systems are screwed up enough that

they can't handle the HGH -- it causes crashes. But it might make sense

to try, while you are healthy. As a nice side effect, it tends to

improve lean muscle mass and general well-being.

Best of luck,

--Bob

wrote:

>

> 22/23, I'm 25 now.

>

>

> >

> > Thanks, . It sounds to me like you're in a pretty complete

> > remission. The autonomic nervous system symptoms you describe are

> > pretty awful and I'm glad you don't have to deal with that anymore.

> >

> > May I ask, what was your age at onset?

> >

> > --Bob

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Because the younger you are at onset, the more likely you are to

> be one of those lucky few.

Maybe. But I'm not aware of any data sets. I guess such a set would be

most likely to be in the J CFS, which for some reason is not indexed on

pubmed.

Where I go to mine raw data is lymenet; it has insane traffic. I've

never looked for info on this subject, however I've been aware of

several people younger than me during most/all of the course of their

abx treatment for CFS (I havent followed the progress of anyone

attempting any other treatment). I dont at all have the impression that

they enjoy noticably superior outcomes vs older people.

Of the patients I know firsthand that are at high remission, from CFS

(the bulk of them) or from MS/etc, I know that all of them obtained it

at an age significantly older than I did (except one whose approx age I

dont know). I'm talking about ~10 people. Most of them were over 40 at

remission. That isnt at all a random sample tho. What I talk about in

the prior paragraph is very roughly a random prospective sample (of

those who use abx treatment and interchange info about it online fairly

intensively) and is a stronger basis for conclusions, tho the

information is of course subjective, wholly informal, based on a fairly

limited sample size, and remembered by me rather than being tabulated

in any way.

So, I dont feel like I've really seen that pattern propsed by Cheney,

tho I havent seen enough to feel fully certain that it doesnt exist.

[Guest guest]

Interesting.

Your description of your fatigue symptoms were similar to mine

at times when I had Lyme (but un diagnosed) but they were not lasting-

Like magic I'd all of a sudden have them remit.. With Lyme- symptoms

could decsend in a matter of hrs- and stay around for some un

determined length of time- then lift almost as fast (although some

other were progressive and always there to impair fitness).

The fatigue symptoms were also similar to what I experienced after

1.5 years on abx for Lyme- that took several months to recover from -

but I recovered. (i.e. not being able to walk to the end of the

driveway without thinking you were going to passout.

I equate CFS with almost permanent exercise intolerance.

What I experienced obviously was not, although symptoms were similar.

Barb

>

> Lots of combination abx (19 months so far). For me the apparantly

> effective treatment was 400 mg doxy + 2 g tinidazole daily (at 60

> kg). This gave me a big breakthru after ~4 months. I have few, and

> light symptoms at this point except during rainy weather, and am

> studying full time. I plan to begin a more intensive therapy soon.

>

> My fatigue was never extreme, as I could walk a mile most days

prior

> to treatment, tho definitely no further. I could usually sit in a

> chair for a few hours at a time before resting a few hours in bed.

I

> consistently had awful flu-like nausea/anorexia/myalgia/malaise,

> significant cognitive impairment, and indescribable depression and

> agitation, such that I literally lay around contemplating death for

> hours on end on a daily basis (this was also partly a function of

> impaired control over mentation). I awoke ~7-15 times per night,

had

> 1000s of heart palpitations per day, etc.

>

> That was the baseline on a month scale, minus a 75% spontaneous

> remission of a couple weeks. I also had non-sustained experiences

> (hours to a couple weeks) like being unable to sit up except to

eat,

> having hands be too weak to write, being able to read for only 15

> minutes at a time, being totally unable to understand conversation,

> etc.

>

> I started getting sick in May 2003, more rapidly after Nov 2003,

> reached full development in Jun 2004, started antimicrobials Nov

> 2004, started tini + doxy May 2005, started running and kayaking

Sept

> 2005.

>

>

> > Um ... sorry, but I can't resist asking. How does one reconcile

a

> dx of

> > CFS with the ability to run 6 miles. Much less walk 6 miles.

For

> that

> > matter how does someone who can perform that well GET a dx of

CFS?

> I

> > can't run that long, and I'm relatively healthy.

> >

> > My wife would love to know your secret, as she can't get past the

> > mailbox out front. I also suspect that her disability carrier

> would be

> > very interested if she suddenly developed the ability to jog

around

> the

> > neighborhood.

> >

> > Mind you, I'm not suggesting you're not sick ... only that CFS is

a

> > pretty useless dx if it can describe someone so debilitated they

> can

> > barely remain upright, as well as someone who can sustain a pace

of

> 7.2

> > mph for 50 minutes.

> >

> > Enlighten me, please.

> >

> > --Bob

>

[Guest guest]

I've always heard that studies indicate that younger people have a better chance of remission from CFS and that it needs to happen within 2 years of onset to really hold. But now that you mention it, I can't recall exactly how or why this is known to be "true". Perhaps it's nothing more than conventional wisdom, much as "herxing" has become conventional wisdom with a whole lot of nothing but question marks to back it up. My daughter bounced back from her few years of CFS symptoms (with one semi-strong remission) pretty rapidly with just a few months of abx. Tony always thought she would because, in his view, she still had really good circulation at her youthful age, which would aid the abx, and she was also a serious dancer before getting sick so her body was in geat shape. She was really struggling more and more to function though, until she took the minocycline.

I'm still concerned though, because even though she was able to get back to really hard physical traiining, etc., I still see signs sometimes that remind me of myself at that age. I would sometimes do pretty well for long stretches and then crash under the right stressors. My daughter, for example, still needs copious amounts of sleep. Perhaps that's normal at 20, I don't know. penny <usenethod@...> wrote: > Because the younger you are

at onset, the more likely you are to > be one of those lucky few. Maybe. But I'm not aware of any data sets. I guess such a set would be most likely to be in the J CFS, which for some reason is not indexed on pubmed.Where I go to mine raw data is lymenet; it has insane traffic. I've never looked for info on this subject, however I've been aware of several people younger than me during most/all of the course of their abx treatment for CFS (I havent followed the progress of anyone attempting any other treatment). I dont at all have the impression that they enjoy noticably superior outcomes vs older people. Of the patients I know firsthand that are at high remission, from CFS (the bulk of them) or from MS/etc, I know that all of them obtained it at an age significantly older than I did (except one whose approx age I dont know). I'm talking about ~10 people. Most of them were over 40 at remission. That

isnt at all a random sample tho. What I talk about in the prior paragraph is very roughly a random prospective sample (of those who use abx treatment and interchange info about it online fairly intensively) and is a stronger basis for conclusions, tho the information is of course subjective, wholly informal, based on a fairly limited sample size, and remembered by me rather than being tabulated in any way.So, I dont feel like I've really seen that pattern propsed by Cheney, tho I havent seen enough to feel fully certain that it doesnt exist.

[Guest guest]

I also used to have magical remissions. But even when I was "healthy", I'd have mini crashes every few days. I could go really hard for a couple of days, then I'd have to recover for a couple of days by doing pretty much nothing. It seems my whole life has been like this, a roller coaster of energetic ups and downs. My energy bank depleted quickly and needed more than just a night's sleep to be restored. As I got older, the crashes lasted longer and longer until I eventually crashed and just stayed down. Since abx, my up & down cycle is months instead of days. But even during my "remissions", the cycle's still there on a more subtle level, I can't push too hard without paying the price. I've wondered if the mini crashes had something to do with the bugs' life cycle that waxes and wanes. My longer remissions have probably seen the bugs go into

hibernation, explaining why every time I stop abx and let them re-activate, I crash big time yet again. pennyBarb Peck <egroups1bp@...> wrote: Interesting.Your description of your fatigue symptoms were similar to mineat times when I had Lyme (but un diagnosed) but they were not lasting-Like magic I'd all of a sudden have them remit.. With Lyme- symptoms could decsend in a matter of hrs- and stay around for some un determined length of time- then lift almost as fast

(although some other were progressive and always there to impair fitness).The fatigue symptoms were also similar to what I experienced after 1.5 years on abx for Lyme- that took several months to recover from - but I recovered. (i.e. not being able to walk to the end of the driveway without thinking you were going to passout.I equate CFS with almost permanent exercise intolerance.What I experienced obviously was not, although symptoms were similar.Barb>> Lots of combination abx (19 months so far). For me the apparantly > effective treatment was 400 mg doxy + 2 g tinidazole daily (at 60 > kg). This gave me a big breakthru after ~4 months. I have few, and > light symptoms at this point except during rainy weather,

and am > studying full time. I plan to begin a more intensive therapy soon. > > My fatigue was never extreme, as I could walk a mile most days prior > to treatment, tho definitely no further. I could usually sit in a > chair for a few hours at a time before resting a few hours in bed. I > consistently had awful flu-like nausea/anorexia/myalgia/malaise, > significant cognitive impairment, and indescribable depression and > agitation, such that I literally lay around contemplating death for > hours on end on a daily basis (this was also partly a function of > impaired control over mentation). I awoke ~7-15 times per night, had > 1000s of heart palpitations per day, etc.> > That was the baseline on a month scale, minus a 75% spontaneous > remission of a couple weeks. I also had non-sustained experiences > (hours to a couple weeks) like being unable to sit

up except to eat, > having hands be too weak to write, being able to read for only 15 > minutes at a time, being totally unable to understand conversation, > etc.> > I started getting sick in May 2003, more rapidly after Nov 2003, > reached full development in Jun 2004, started antimicrobials Nov > 2004, started tini + doxy May 2005, started running and kayaking Sept > 2005.> > > > Um ... sorry, but I can't resist asking. How does one reconcile a > dx of > > CFS with the ability to run 6 miles. Much less walk 6 miles. For > that > > matter how does someone who can perform that well GET a dx of CFS? > I > > can't run that long, and I'm relatively healthy.> > > > My wife would love to know your secret, as she can't get past the > > mailbox out front. I also suspect that her disability carrier

> would be > > very interested if she suddenly developed the ability to jog around > the > > neighborhood.> > > > Mind you, I'm not suggesting you're not sick ... only that CFS is a > > pretty useless dx if it can describe someone so debilitated they > can > > barely remain upright, as well as someone who can sustain a pace of > 7.2 > > mph for 50 minutes.> > > > Enlighten me, please.> > > > --Bob>

[Guest guest]

,

I don't recall where Cheney got his numbers, although I do know he felt

they were borne out in his own extensive clinical experience, and also

that, regardless of patient age, recovery tends to happen less and less

often as the number of years since onset increases. On the other hand,

one has to consider that we are only beginning to collect significant

clinical experience with long-term and/or geriatric CFS patients, plus,

the diagnosis of CFS these days is pretty squishy and often a throw-away

dx -- thanks to useless case definitions and often inexpert

diagnosticians. And on the positive side as this list attests, we are

always coming up with new treatment possibilities to throw into the mix.

Regardless, it's heartening that you have met some examples of persons

who have recovered from CFS or CFS-like illness at a more advanced age

and/or a larger number of years down with the illness.

Best,

--Bob

wrote:

>

>

> > Because the younger you are at onset, the more likely you are to

> > be one of those lucky few.

>

> Maybe. But I'm not aware of any data sets. I guess such a set would be

> most likely to be in the J CFS, which for some reason is not indexed on

> pubmed.

>

> Where I go to mine raw data is lymenet; it has insane traffic. I've

> never looked for info on this subject, however I've been aware of

> several people younger than me during most/all of the course of their

> abx treatment for CFS (I havent followed the progress of anyone

> attempting any other treatment). I dont at all have the impression that

> they enjoy noticably superior outcomes vs older people.

>

> Of the patients I know firsthand that are at high remission, from CFS

> (the bulk of them) or from MS/etc, I know that all of them obtained it

> at an age significantly older than I did (except one whose approx age I

> dont know). I'm talking about ~10 people. Most of them were over 40 at

> remission. That isnt at all a random sample tho. What I talk about in

> the prior paragraph is very roughly a random prospective sample (of

> those who use abx treatment and interchange info about it online fairly

> intensively) and is a stronger basis for conclusions, tho the

> information is of course subjective, wholly informal, based on a fairly

> limited sample size, and remembered by me rather than being tabulated

> in any way.

>

> So, I dont feel like I've really seen that pattern propsed by Cheney,

> tho I havent seen enough to feel fully certain that it doesnt exist.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well done on your recovery even though it's not 100% it's still an inspiration to others. Just a word of caution on exercise. Athletes are 80% more likely to contract Motor neurone disease ..It's an auto-immune condition .Front runner as a cause is an infection, a virus, I wouldn't rule out nano bacteria ...It seems that endorphins and infectious agents are not a good mix ...Sorry for the dour post , but I thought you would want to know ...

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of Sent: 04 July 2006 18:29infections Subject: [infections] Re: acute infection ... running

Lots of combination abx (19 months so far). For me the apparantly effective treatment was 400 mg doxy + 2 g tinidazole daily (at 60 kg). This gave me a big breakthru after ~4 months. I have few, and light symptoms at this point except during rainy weather, and am studying full time. I plan to begin a more intensive therapy soon. My fatigue was never extreme, as I could walk a mile most days prior to treatment, tho definitely no further. I could usually sit in a chair for a few hours at a time before resting a few hours in bed. I consistently had awful flu-like nausea/anorexia/myalgia/malaise, significant cognitive impairment, and indescribable depression and agitation, such that I literally lay around contemplating death for hours on end on a daily basis (this was also partly a function of impaired control over mentation). I awoke ~7-15 times per night, had 1000s of heart palpitations per day, etc.That was the baseline on a month scale, minus a 75% spontaneous remission of a couple weeks. I also had non-sustained experiences (hours to a couple weeks) like being unable to sit up except to eat, having hands be too weak to write, being able to read for only 15 minutes at a time, being totally unable to understand conversation, etc.I started getting sick in May 2003, more rapidly after Nov 2003, reached full development in Jun 2004, started antimicrobials Nov 2004, started tini + doxy May 2005, started running and kayaking Sept 2005.> Um ... sorry, but I can't resist asking. How does one reconcile a dx of > CFS with the ability to run 6 miles. Much less walk 6 miles. For that > matter how does someone who can perform that well GET a dx of CFS? I > can't run that long, and I'm relatively healthy.> > My wife would love to know your secret, as she can't get past the > mailbox out front. I also suspect that her disability carrier would be > very interested if she suddenly developed the ability to jog around the > neighborhood.> > Mind you, I'm not suggesting you're not sick ... only that CFS is a > pretty useless dx if it can describe someone so debilitated they can > barely remain upright, as well as someone who can sustain a pace of 7.2 > mph for 50 minutes.> > Enlighten me, please.> > --Bob

[Guest guest]

Keep up the good work and I, like you, think tnat the cardio is so

important to the microcirculation that forms part of this disease

picture.

I would think running without taking care of an infection is a very

dangerous predicament and you'll find many people that keel over

after strenious events are coming from this angle.

tony

>

>

> > Because the younger you are at onset, the more likely you are to

> > be one of those lucky few.

>

> Maybe. But I'm not aware of any data sets. I guess such a set

would be

> most likely to be in the J CFS, which for some reason is not

indexed on

> pubmed.

>

> Where I go to mine raw data is lymenet; it has insane traffic.

I've

> never looked for info on this subject, however I've been aware of

> several people younger than me during most/all of the course of

their

> abx treatment for CFS (I havent followed the progress of anyone

> attempting any other treatment). I dont at all have the impression

that

> they enjoy noticably superior outcomes vs older people.

>

> Of the patients I know firsthand that are at high remission, from

CFS

> (the bulk of them) or from MS/etc, I know that all of them

obtained it

> at an age significantly older than I did (except one whose approx

age I

> dont know). I'm talking about ~10 people. Most of them were over

40 at

> remission. That isnt at all a random sample tho. What I talk about

in

> the prior paragraph is very roughly a random prospective sample

(of

> those who use abx treatment and interchange info about it online

fairly

> intensively) and is a stronger basis for conclusions, tho the

> information is of course subjective, wholly informal, based on a

fairly

> limited sample size, and remembered by me rather than being

tabulated

> in any way.

>

> So, I dont feel like I've really seen that pattern propsed by

Cheney,

> tho I havent seen enough to feel fully certain that it doesnt

exist.

>

[Guest guest]

Thing is I would guess it probably only builds the microcirculation of

the heart, lungs, and legs.

I dont have an opinion whether its really a good idea, I just love to

run and ride my bike. For me the benefits in terms of being happier

and more energetic are pretty large, always were before I got sick

too.

>

>

> Keep up the good work and I, like you, think tnat the cardio is so

> important to the microcirculation that forms part of this disease

> picture.

> I would think running without taking care of an infection is a very

> dangerous predicament and you'll find many people that keel over

> after strenious events are coming from this angle.

>

> tony

[Guest guest]

I often put the hard yards in- strongly beliueveiung that

getting things flowing/moving is an important part of having an

actual immune system.

> >

> >

> > Keep up the good work and I, like you, think tnat the cardio is

so

> > important to the microcirculation that forms part of this

disease

> > picture.

> > I would think running without taking care of an infection is a

very

> > dangerous predicament and you'll find many people that keel over

> > after strenious events are coming from this angle.

> >

> > tony

>