Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Wallace, I never once said I'm against losing teeth. I'm against losing them in the wrong way without abx follow up, which spreads the disease to surrounding teeth. I'd rather people simply go to a dentist and have straight tooth extractions than be messed up by NICO docs. I also never said or thought Kulacz has a mansion. But think about it a little bit and I'm sure you can figure out who does. Please read about osteomyelitis in other bones of the body. Yes, debridement (bone removal/scraping) is necessary but look at how debridement is supposed to be followed up! If you can't admit that the orthopedists and infectious disease docs know more about bone infection and are correct in saying that the follow up treatment can take up to a year and maybe even longer, then I guess it makes sense that you'd feel safe in the hands of NICO docs who believe in scraping "just a little bit extra" to "get it all" is enough. Unfortunatley, debridement without good abx coverage just spreads the infection deeper. This has happened to too many people to count, destroying their chances for recovery by spreading their disease. When you've got this disease, it's very difficult to grow bone back. Bone should be scraped only until blood flow is achieved. No "extra" bone should be taken, especially in this region of the body. Blood flow is needed for abx to get to the area. But if the doc's not prescribing good follow up abx, based on cultures, what's the point? It's equivalent to renoving a splinter from your finger, pumping it full of germs, and walking away. Actually, your finger's got a much better chance. The chances of infection not spreading in bone without abx coverage are slight. The right process looks like this: CT scans by a highly skilled radiologist who can correctly identify the problem areas in the jaw. Rotation of the tooth for extraction (no drilling, no epinephrine, no wedging against another tooth for leverage). Light scraping of the bone to clean up necrosis (only until blood flow is achieved). Bone samples immediately sent to the lab for culturing. d by hand for actinomyces. Multiple therapy I.V. antibiotics, immediately adjusted when culture results come in. Hyperbaric Oxygen possibily prescribed to speed healing. (it's usually prescribed with osteomyelitis surgery). Continuous follow up care to ensure the infection is gone. Wallace, it is possible to get this kind of care. People need to know that this is the kind of care they should be getting. If a NICO doc can't cover all the bases, try finding a sympathetic oral surgeon who works with an I.D. doc who will. Your chances are much better. penny Wallace Kingston <wpswallace@...> wrote: Did Kulacz have a mansion? All I know is that docs like Teitalbaum charge over $5000 for a two hour appointment.Huggins got his license revoked to be a dentist so these few dentists are really up against the ADA.To get better you will loose teeth. Weston Price taught that so I wonder how Penny would have got on with him!Post surgical care is crucial but that is not the dentists job so give the guys a break. Thats where we need Klinghardt etc.Hey after all that you(Penny) said it appears you actually liked Kulacz!Yes I dont think a good dentist is a contradiction in terms but we mustn't expect too much of them!Is Suzin the writer on cavitations having another op? Just shows lumenphoton doesn't work.Unlike you I haven't spoken to hundreds of NICO patients but if it makes sense it makes sense and I dont see a big deal in losing a few teeth! There is no alternative!Sinus surgery is something I would do as a very last resort if all else failed. The same with head surgery.My point is lets not scare people unnecessarily. Infected,dead teeth need to be removed, period.Sunny thoughts,Wallace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 ---Again you're expecting too much of the dentist. I dont believe in scraping, the Shankland method of cuting it all out is my preference. To get the bone to grow back is not the dentists job, so give him a break! Here Price was exceptional cos he gave autogenous vaccine and parathyroid and calcium and dietary advice. But we need a super doc to do all this not the dentist whose job it ain't. ly you're working within a tired old alopathic approach. It doesn't work as all your friends have told you. Find a Klinhardt/issels/Rau type. One illustration of one of the things they will do is to take some of the debris and with a Bioresonance homeopathic device make months worth of homeopathic remedies from it. I repeat it is not up to the dentist to make sure the infection is gone its up to you! You seem to only embrace the part of Price you like. Well in case you dont know he was totally into Biological medicine. You have talked to people who want some kind of Superman Dentist who magically will sort all their problems out. They dont exist! As I said we disagree on the team needed. Also what you're recommending you agree doesn't exist so lets get realistic! Sunny thoughts, Wallace In infections , Penny Houle <pennyhoule@...> wrote: > > Wallace, I never once said I'm against losing teeth. I'm against losing them in the wrong way without abx follow up, which spreads the disease to surrounding teeth. I'd rather people simply go to a dentist and have straight tooth extractions than be messed up by NICO docs. > > I also never said or thought Kulacz has a mansion. But think about it a little bit and I'm sure you can figure out who does. > > Please read about osteomyelitis in other bones of the body. Yes, debridement (bone removal/scraping) is necessary but look at how debridement is supposed to be followed up! If you can't admit that the orthopedists and infectious disease docs know more about bone infection and are correct in saying that the follow up treatment can take up to a year and maybe even longer, then I guess it makes sense that you'd feel safe in the hands of NICO docs who believe in scraping " just a little bit extra " to " get it all " is enough. Unfortunatley, debridement without good abx coverage just spreads the infection deeper. This has happened to too many people to count, destroying their chances for recovery by spreading their disease. > > When you've got this disease, it's very difficult to grow bone back. Bone should be scraped only until blood flow is achieved. No " extra " bone should be taken, especially in this region of the body. Blood flow is needed for abx to get to the area. But if the doc's not prescribing good follow up abx, based on cultures, what's the point? It's equivalent to renoving a splinter from your finger, pumping it full of germs, and walking away. Actually, your finger's got a much better chance. The chances of infection not spreading in bone without abx coverage are slight. > > The right process looks like this: > > CT scans by a highly skilled radiologist who can correctly identify the problem areas in the jaw. > > Rotation of the tooth for extraction (no drilling, no epinephrine, no wedging against another tooth for leverage). > > Light scraping of the bone to clean up necrosis (only until blood flow is achieved). > > Bone samples immediately sent to the lab for culturing. d by hand for actinomyces. > > Multiple therapy I.V. antibiotics, immediately adjusted when culture results come in. > > Hyperbaric Oxygen possibily prescribed to speed healing. (it's usually prescribed with osteomyelitis surgery). > > Continuous follow up care to ensure the infection is gone. > > Wallace, it is possible to get this kind of care. People need to know that this is the kind of care they should be getting. If a NICO doc can't cover all the bases, try finding a sympathetic oral surgeon who works with an I.D. doc who will. Your chances are much better. > > penny > > > > > > > > > Wallace Kingston <wpswallace@...> wrote: > Did Kulacz have a mansion? All I know is that docs like > Teitalbaum charge over $5000 for a two hour appointment. > > Huggins got his license revoked to be a dentist so these few dentists > are really up against the ADA. > > To get better you will loose teeth. Weston Price taught that so I > wonder how Penny would have got on with him! > > Post surgical care is crucial but that is not the dentists job so give > the guys a break. Thats where we need Klinghardt etc. > > Hey after all that you(Penny) said it appears you actually liked Kulacz! > > Yes I dont think a good dentist is a contradiction in terms but we > mustn't expect too much of them! > > Is Suzin the writer on cavitations having another op? Just shows > lumenphoton doesn't work. > > Unlike you I haven't spoken to hundreds of NICO patients but if it > makes sense it makes sense and I dont see a big deal in losing a few > teeth! There is no alternative! > > Sinus surgery is something I would do as a very last resort if all else > failed. The same with head surgery. > > My point is lets not scare people unnecessarily. Infected,dead teeth > need to be removed, period. > > Sunny thoughts, > Wallace > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Wallace, Perhaps you would like to document this with a copy of your bill. Anyone else who doubts the veracity of this statement may call Teitelbaum’s office in polis at 410-266-6958. I have sent them an email copy of your statement and will post the reply here asap. He is closing his practice there any day now to focus on speaking and overseeing the new Fatigue centers all over the US. I sincerely doubt that he charged $2500 per hour. I can believe that someone’s bill MIGHT have totaled that including extensive testing. a Carnes Did Kulacz have a mansion? All I know is that docs like Teitalbaum charge over $5000 for a two hour appointment. Sunny thoughts, Wallace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Wallace Your missing the point. People need to use best science practise when dealing with anything on the human body.You may have dead teeth that need removal but by tapping in to an area that is walled off and not very active (something at a low level smolder type scenario) by going in and freshening things up your re kindling a monster.So as Penny is tryoing to make you aware something very succesfull at foirst followed by a few months of better health can come back at you 100 miles an hour as is often the case, to place you in a worse more disastarous position than before. > > Did Kulacz have a mansion? All I know is that docs like > Teitalbaum charge over $5000 for a two hour appointment. > > Huggins got his license revoked to be a dentist so these few dentists > are really up against the ADA. > > To get better you will loose teeth. Weston Price taught that so I > wonder how Penny would have got on with him! > > Post surgical care is crucial but that is not the dentists job so give > the guys a break. Thats where we need Klinghardt etc. > > Hey after all that you(Penny) said it appears you actually liked Kulacz! > > Yes I dont think a good dentist is a contradiction in terms but we > mustn't expect too much of them! > > Is Suzin the writer on cavitations having another op? Just shows > lumenphoton doesn't work. > > Unlike you I haven't spoken to hundreds of NICO patients but if it > makes sense it makes sense and I dont see a big deal in losing a few > teeth! There is no alternative! > > Sinus surgery is something I would do as a very last resort if all else > failed. The same with head surgery. > > My point is lets not scare people unnecessarily. Infected,dead teeth > need to be removed, period. > > Sunny thoughts, > Wallace > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 --If it does exist what's stopping you from putting your team into surgical action. You cant have it both ways! The people are out there or they aren't. Or is your reference to rich dentists means that the cost is prohibitive? We seem to agree on what needs to done. We differ in who we would include on our teams. Its up to us to get our " team " right and sort out the infection. We have to take responsibility for our health rather than just only moaning about doctors and dentists. Isn't that the American spirit! Sunny thoughts, Wallace - In infections , Penny Houle <pennyhoule@...> wrote: > > Wallace, that's completely ridiculous. It's called " debriding " and no orthopedic surgeon who's treating an infected bone in your foot or hip is going to tell you it's " up to you " to beat your infection. > > Totally, totally wrong! > > I've been to an Issell clinic in Mexico. No thanks. > > What I'm recommending DOES exist. And it's up to us to insist on proper treatment as I outlined, not settle for some hatchet jobs by guys who think the jaw is nothing more than a mechanical device that opens and shuts. > > penny > > Wallace Kingston <wpswallace@...> wrote: > ---Again you're expecting too much of the dentist. I dont believe > in scraping, the Shankland method of cuting it all out is my > preference. > > To get the bone to grow back is not the dentists job, so give him a > break! > > Here Price was exceptional cos he gave autogenous vaccine and > parathyroid and calcium and dietary advice. But we need a super doc > to do all this not the dentist whose job it ain't. > > ly you're working within a tired old alopathic approach. It > doesn't work as all your friends have told you. > > Find a Klinhardt/issels/Rau type. One illustration of one of the > things they will do is to take some of the debris and with a > Bioresonance homeopathic device make months worth of homeopathic > remedies from it. > > I repeat it is not up to the dentist to make sure the infection is > gone its up to you! > > You seem to only embrace the part of Price you like. Well in case > you dont know he was totally into Biological medicine. > > You have talked to people who want some kind of Superman Dentist who > magically will sort all their problems out. They dont exist! > > As I said we disagree on the team needed. Also what you're > recommending you agree doesn't exist so lets get realistic! > > Sunny thoughts, > Wallace > > In infections , Penny Houle > <pennyhoule@> wrote: > > > > Wallace, I never once said I'm against losing teeth. I'm against > losing them in the wrong way without abx follow up, which spreads > the disease to surrounding teeth. I'd rather people simply go to a > dentist and have straight tooth extractions than be messed up by > NICO docs. > > > > I also never said or thought Kulacz has a mansion. But think > about it a little bit and I'm sure you can figure out who does. > > > > Please read about osteomyelitis in other bones of the body. Yes, > debridement (bone removal/scraping) is necessary but look at how > debridement is supposed to be followed up! If you can't admit that > the orthopedists and infectious disease docs know more about bone > infection and are correct in saying that the follow up treatment can > take up to a year and maybe even longer, then I guess it makes sense > that you'd feel safe in the hands of NICO docs who believe in > scraping " just a little bit extra " to " get it all " is enough. > Unfortunatley, debridement without good abx coverage just spreads > the infection deeper. This has happened to too many people to count, > destroying their chances for recovery by spreading their disease. > > > > When you've got this disease, it's very difficult to grow bone > back. Bone should be scraped only until blood flow is achieved. > No " extra " bone should be taken, especially in this region of the > body. Blood flow is needed for abx to get to the area. But if the > doc's not prescribing good follow up abx, based on cultures, what's > the point? It's equivalent to renoving a splinter from your finger, > pumping it full of germs, and walking away. Actually, your finger's > got a much better chance. The chances of infection not spreading in > bone without abx coverage are slight. > > > > The right process looks like this: > > > > CT scans by a highly skilled radiologist who can correctly > identify the problem areas in the jaw. > > > > Rotation of the tooth for extraction (no drilling, no > epinephrine, no wedging against another tooth for leverage). > > > > Light scraping of the bone to clean up necrosis (only until > blood flow is achieved). > > > > Bone samples immediately sent to the lab for culturing. d > by hand for actinomyces. > > > > Multiple therapy I.V. antibiotics, immediately adjusted when > culture results come in. > > > > Hyperbaric Oxygen possibily prescribed to speed healing. (it's > usually prescribed with osteomyelitis surgery). > > > > Continuous follow up care to ensure the infection is gone. > > > > Wallace, it is possible to get this kind of care. People need to > know that this is the kind of care they should be getting. If a NICO > doc can't cover all the bases, try finding a sympathetic oral > surgeon who works with an I.D. doc who will. Your chances are much > better. > > > > penny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wallace Kingston <wpswallace@> wrote: > > Did Kulacz have a mansion? All I know is that docs like > > > Teitalbaum charge over $5000 for a two hour appointment. > > > > Huggins got his license revoked to be a dentist so these few > dentists > > are really up against the ADA. > > > > To get better you will loose teeth. Weston Price taught that so I > > wonder how Penny would have got on with him! > > > > Post surgical care is crucial but that is not the dentists job so > give > > the guys a break. Thats where we need Klinghardt etc. > > > > Hey after all that you(Penny) said it appears you actually liked > Kulacz! > > > > Yes I dont think a good dentist is a contradiction in terms but we > > mustn't expect too much of them! > > > > Is Suzin the writer on cavitations having another op? Just shows > > lumenphoton doesn't work. > > > > Unlike you I haven't spoken to hundreds of NICO patients but if it > > makes sense it makes sense and I dont see a big deal in losing a > few > > teeth! There is no alternative! > > > > Sinus surgery is something I would do as a very last resort if all > else > > failed. The same with head surgery. > > > > My point is lets not scare people unnecessarily. Infected,dead > teeth > > need to be removed, period. > > > > Sunny thoughts, > > Wallace > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 -Penny is saying that if you get the right team in place you'll be fine. I agree! You seem to be down playing the urgency and extent of the problem. These bacterial toxins are preventing abx from clearing your chronic infection. It requires surgery! Get your team in place behind your dentist or oral surgeon if you prefer. Sunny thoughts, Wallace -- In infections , " dumbaussie2000 " <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: > > Wallace > Your missing the point. People need to use best science practise > when dealing with anything on the human body.You may have dead teeth > that need removal but by tapping in to an area that is walled off > and not very active (something at a low level smolder type scenario) > by going in and freshening things up your re kindling a monster.So > as Penny is tryoing to make you aware something very succesfull at > foirst followed by a few months of better health can come back at > you 100 miles an hour as is often the case, to place you in a worse > more disastarous position than before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did Kulacz have a mansion? All I know is that docs like > > Teitalbaum charge over $5000 for a two hour appointment. > > > > Huggins got his license revoked to be a dentist so these few > dentists > > are really up against the ADA. > > > > To get better you will loose teeth. Weston Price taught that so I > > wonder how Penny would have got on with him! > > > > Post surgical care is crucial but that is not the dentists job so > give > > the guys a break. Thats where we need Klinghardt etc. > > > > Hey after all that you(Penny) said it appears you actually liked > Kulacz! > > > > Yes I dont think a good dentist is a contradiction in terms but we > > mustn't expect too much of them! > > > > Is Suzin the writer on cavitations having another op? Just shows > > lumenphoton doesn't work. > > > > Unlike you I haven't spoken to hundreds of NICO patients but if it > > makes sense it makes sense and I dont see a big deal in losing a > few > > teeth! There is no alternative! > > > > Sinus surgery is something I would do as a very last resort if all > else > > failed. The same with head surgery. > > > > My point is lets not scare people unnecessarily. Infected,dead > teeth > > need to be removed, period. > > > > Sunny thoughts, > > Wallace > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Wallace That is the thing, the team effort.My brother in law at 50 went in and got a hip replaced and the pathology report was fascinating- necrosis-cyst formations-but the IV antimicrobial was a gem the one out of fifty tested that I would have felt completely comfortable with and the approach heparin followed by coumadin and a very professional surgical and foillow up team saw a perfect outcome.Visiting these types of forums(knee hip replacement) I notice something that may need a rethink the percentages of failures seems high and there's a huge variation in what should ONLY BE BEST PRACTISE..In other words I thionk many don't get profilactic antibiotics and often only pill form is used.You also learn in every ilness an aggresive early intervention is the best one IMO.So because this doesn't exist you jump into it at your own peril and I'm comfortable that it is a big peril that hasn't got many if any winners. > > > > > > Did Kulacz have a mansion? All I know is that docs like > > > Teitalbaum charge over $5000 for a two hour appointment. > > > > > > Huggins got his license revoked to be a dentist so these few > > dentists > > > are really up against the ADA. > > > > > > To get better you will loose teeth. Weston Price taught that so > I > > > wonder how Penny would have got on with him! > > > > > > Post surgical care is crucial but that is not the dentists job > so > > give > > > the guys a break. Thats where we need Klinghardt etc. > > > > > > Hey after all that you(Penny) said it appears you actually liked > > Kulacz! > > > > > > Yes I dont think a good dentist is a contradiction in terms but > we > > > mustn't expect too much of them! > > > > > > Is Suzin the writer on cavitations having another op? Just > shows > > > lumenphoton doesn't work. > > > > > > Unlike you I haven't spoken to hundreds of NICO patients but if > it > > > makes sense it makes sense and I dont see a big deal in losing a > > few > > > teeth! There is no alternative! > > > > > > Sinus surgery is something I would do as a very last resort if > all > > else > > > failed. The same with head surgery. > > > > > > My point is lets not scare people unnecessarily. Infected,dead > > teeth > > > need to be removed, period. > > > > > > Sunny thoughts, > > > Wallace > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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