Re: Re: Rich dentists

[Guest guest]

Wallace, that's completely ridiculous. It's called "debriding" and no orthopedic surgeon who's treating an infected bone in your foot or hip is going to tell you it's "up to you" to beat your infection. Totally, totally wrong! I've been to an Issell clinic in Mexico. No thanks. What I'm recommending DOES exist. And it's up to us to insist on proper treatment as I outlined, not settle for some hatchet jobs by guys who think the jaw is nothing more than a mechanical device that opens and shuts. pennyWallace Kingston <wpswallace@...> wrote: ---Again you're expecting too much of the dentist. I dont believe in scraping, the Shankland method of cuting it all out is my preference. To get the bone to grow back is not the dentists job, so give him a break!Here Price was exceptional cos he gave autogenous vaccine and parathyroid and calcium and dietary advice. But we need a super doc to do all this not the dentist whose job it ain't.ly you're working within a tired old alopathic approach. It doesn't work as all your friends have told you. Find a Klinhardt/issels/Rau type. One illustration of one of the things they will do is to take some of the debris and with a Bioresonance homeopathic device make months worth of homeopathic remedies from it.I repeat it is not up to the dentist to make sure the infection is gone its

up to you!You seem to only embrace the part of Price you like. Well in case you dont know he was totally into Biological medicine.You have talked to people who want some kind of Superman Dentist who magically will sort all their problems out. They dont exist!As I said we disagree on the team needed. Also what you're recommending you agree doesn't exist so lets get realistic!Sunny thoughts,WallaceIn infections , Penny Houle <pennyhoule@...> wrote:>> Wallace, I never once said I'm against losing teeth. I'm against losing them in the wrong way without abx follow up, which spreads the disease to surrounding teeth. I'd rather people simply go to a dentist and have straight tooth extractions than be messed up by NICO docs. > > I also never said or thought Kulacz

has a mansion. But think about it a little bit and I'm sure you can figure out who does. > > Please read about osteomyelitis in other bones of the body. Yes, debridement (bone removal/scraping) is necessary but look at how debridement is supposed to be followed up! If you can't admit that the orthopedists and infectious disease docs know more about bone infection and are correct in saying that the follow up treatment can take up to a year and maybe even longer, then I guess it makes sense that you'd feel safe in the hands of NICO docs who believe in scraping "just a little bit extra" to "get it all" is enough. Unfortunatley, debridement without good abx coverage just spreads the infection deeper. This has happened to too many people to count, destroying their chances for recovery by spreading their disease.> > When you've got this disease, it's very difficult to grow bone back. Bone should be

scraped only until blood flow is achieved. No "extra" bone should be taken, especially in this region of the body. Blood flow is needed for abx to get to the area. But if the doc's not prescribing good follow up abx, based on cultures, what's the point? It's equivalent to renoving a splinter from your finger, pumping it full of germs, and walking away. Actually, your finger's got a much better chance. The chances of infection not spreading in bone without abx coverage are slight.> > The right process looks like this:> > CT scans by a highly skilled radiologist who can correctly identify the problem areas in the jaw.> > Rotation of the tooth for extraction (no drilling, no epinephrine, no wedging against another tooth for leverage).> > Light scraping of the bone to clean up necrosis (only until blood flow is achieved).> > Bone samples immediately sent to the lab for

culturing. d by hand for actinomyces.> > Multiple therapy I.V. antibiotics, immediately adjusted when culture results come in.> > Hyperbaric Oxygen possibily prescribed to speed healing. (it's usually prescribed with osteomyelitis surgery).> > Continuous follow up care to ensure the infection is gone. > > Wallace, it is possible to get this kind of care. People need to know that this is the kind of care they should be getting. If a NICO doc can't cover all the bases, try finding a sympathetic oral surgeon who works with an I.D. doc who will. Your chances are much better.> > penny> > > > > > > > > Wallace Kingston <wpswallace@...> wrote:> Did Kulacz have a mansion? All I know is that docs like > Teitalbaum charge over $5000 for a two hour appointment.> > Huggins

got his license revoked to be a dentist so these few dentists > are really up against the ADA.> > To get better you will loose teeth. Weston Price taught that so I > wonder how Penny would have got on with him!> > Post surgical care is crucial but that is not the dentists job so give > the guys a break. Thats where we need Klinghardt etc.> > Hey after all that you(Penny) said it appears you actually liked Kulacz!> > Yes I dont think a good dentist is a contradiction in terms but we > mustn't expect too much of them!> > Is Suzin the writer on cavitations having another op? Just shows > lumenphoton doesn't work.> > Unlike you I haven't spoken to hundreds of NICO patients but if it > makes sense it makes sense and I dont see a big deal in losing a few > teeth! There is no alternative!> > Sinus surgery is something I

would do as a very last resort if all else > failed. The same with head surgery.> > My point is lets not scare people unnecessarily. Infected,dead teeth > need to be removed, period.> > Sunny thoughts,> Wallace>

[Guest guest]

I'm in the process of getting all my ducks in a row before allowing anyone to put another knife or pair of plyers, in my mouth. I first need to go to Arizona for new scans and get my blood work done. Then I will go to a local oral surgeon I know who will work with a local infectious disease doc. I've already found the ENT I want on board. Just a plain old bone infection is difficult enough to treat. No guarantees of successs. That's one reason (along with the expense of treatment), that amputations are so common. Now transfer that infection to your jaw bone, which is comprised of dentin tubules, is close to your brain as well as the largest nerve (trigeminal) in your body going directly to your brain, not to mention the proximity the infection has to major glands and its pipeline to your heart, and you've got a tricky area to treat which should be approached very

carefully. If you're okay putting that kind of surgery in the hands of dentists who aren't trained in infection, can't prescribe i.v. antibiotics or anticoagulants, have no hospital privileges, and don't know the first thing about infectious disease, that's your perogative. But not for me. penny Wallace Kingston <wpswallace@...> wrote: --If it does

exist what's stopping you from putting your team into surgical action. You cant have it both ways! The people are out there or they aren't.Or is your reference to rich dentists means that the cost is prohibitive?We seem to agree on what needs to done. We differ in who we would include on our teams. Its up to us to get our "team" right and sort out the infection. We have to take responsibility for our health rather than just only moaning about doctors and dentists. Isn't that the American spirit!Sunny thoughts,Wallace- In infections , Penny Houle <pennyhoule@...> wrote:>> Wallace, that's completely ridiculous. It's called "debriding" and no orthopedic surgeon who's treating an infected bone in your foot or hip is going to tell you it's "up to you" to beat your

infection.> > Totally, totally wrong!> > I've been to an Issell clinic in Mexico. No thanks.> > What I'm recommending DOES exist. And it's up to us to insist on proper treatment as I outlined, not settle for some hatchet jobs by guys who think the jaw is nothing more than a mechanical device that opens and shuts.> > penny> > Wallace Kingston <wpswallace@...> wrote:> ---Again you're expecting too much of the dentist. I dont believe > in scraping, the Shankland method of cuting it all out is my > preference. > > To get the bone to grow back is not the dentists job, so give him a > break!> > Here Price was exceptional cos he gave autogenous vaccine and > parathyroid and calcium and dietary advice. But we need a super doc > to do all this not the dentist whose job it ain't.> > ly you're

working within a tired old alopathic approach. It > doesn't work as all your friends have told you. > > Find a Klinhardt/issels/Rau type. One illustration of one of the > things they will do is to take some of the debris and with a > Bioresonance homeopathic device make months worth of homeopathic > remedies from it.> > I repeat it is not up to the dentist to make sure the infection is > gone its up to you!> > You seem to only embrace the part of Price you like. Well in case > you dont know he was totally into Biological medicine.> > You have talked to people who want some kind of Superman Dentist who > magically will sort all their problems out. They dont exist!> > As I said we disagree on the team needed. Also what you're > recommending you agree doesn't exist so lets get realistic!> > Sunny thoughts,> Wallace>

> In infections , Penny Houle > <pennyhoule@> wrote:> >> > Wallace, I never once said I'm against losing teeth. I'm against > losing them in the wrong way without abx follow up, which spreads > the disease to surrounding teeth. I'd rather people simply go to a > dentist and have straight tooth extractions than be messed up by > NICO docs. > > > > I also never said or thought Kulacz has a mansion. But think > about it a little bit and I'm sure you can figure out who does. > > > > Please read about osteomyelitis in other bones of the body. Yes, > debridement (bone removal/scraping) is necessary but look at how > debridement is supposed to be followed up! If you can't admit that > the orthopedists and infectious disease docs know more

about bone > infection and are correct in saying that the follow up treatment can > take up to a year and maybe even longer, then I guess it makes sense > that you'd feel safe in the hands of NICO docs who believe in > scraping "just a little bit extra" to "get it all" is enough. > Unfortunatley, debridement without good abx coverage just spreads > the infection deeper. This has happened to too many people to count, > destroying their chances for recovery by spreading their disease.> > > > When you've got this disease, it's very difficult to grow bone > back. Bone should be scraped only until blood flow is achieved. > No "extra" bone should be taken, especially in this region of the > body. Blood flow is needed for abx to get to the area. But if the > doc's not prescribing good follow up abx, based on cultures, what's > the point? It's equivalent to

renoving a splinter from your finger, > pumping it full of germs, and walking away. Actually, your finger's > got a much better chance. The chances of infection not spreading in > bone without abx coverage are slight.> > > > The right process looks like this:> > > > CT scans by a highly skilled radiologist who can correctly > identify the problem areas in the jaw.> > > > Rotation of the tooth for extraction (no drilling, no > epinephrine, no wedging against another tooth for leverage).> > > > Light scraping of the bone to clean up necrosis (only until > blood flow is achieved).> > > > Bone samples immediately sent to the lab for culturing. d > by hand for actinomyces.> > > > Multiple therapy I.V. antibiotics, immediately adjusted when > culture results come in.> > >

> Hyperbaric Oxygen possibily prescribed to speed healing. (it's > usually prescribed with osteomyelitis surgery).> > > > Continuous follow up care to ensure the infection is gone. > > > > Wallace, it is possible to get this kind of care. People need to > know that this is the kind of care they should be getting. If a NICO > doc can't cover all the bases, try finding a sympathetic oral > surgeon who works with an I.D. doc who will. Your chances are much > better.> > > > penny> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wallace Kingston <wpswallace@> wrote:> > Did Kulacz have a mansion? All I know is that docs like > > > Teitalbaum charge over $5000 for a two hour appointment.> > > > Huggins got his license revoked to be a dentist

so these few > dentists > > are really up against the ADA.> > > > To get better you will loose teeth. Weston Price taught that so I > > wonder how Penny would have got on with him!> > > > Post surgical care is crucial but that is not the dentists job so > give > > the guys a break. Thats where we need Klinghardt etc.> > > > Hey after all that you(Penny) said it appears you actually liked > Kulacz!> > > > Yes I dont think a good dentist is a contradiction in terms but we > > mustn't expect too much of them!> > > > Is Suzin the writer on cavitations having another op? Just shows > > lumenphoton doesn't work.> > > > Unlike you I haven't spoken to hundreds of NICO patients but if it > > makes sense it makes sense and I dont see a big deal in losing a > few

> > teeth! There is no alternative!> > > > Sinus surgery is something I would do as a very last resort if all > else > > failed. The same with head surgery.> > > > My point is lets not scare people unnecessarily. Infected,dead > teeth > > need to be removed, period.> > > > Sunny thoughts,> > Wallace> >>

[Guest guest]

Skillful surgery, Wallace. And even then there's no guarantee. That's why you need the best possible approach to your illness. Even orthopedic surgeons are often unsuccessful and have to amputate infected bones. We don't have that option, since our infection is in our head. And believe me, those ortho docs have way more experience in cleaning up infected bones and they know exactly how serious bone infections really are (so serous that i.v. antibiotics are the standard course of treatment), than some dentist who never really studied the causes of infection in med school. Dentists who "cut out" necrotic bone in "cavitations" don't understand that cutting into bone without really good antibiotic follow-up, will just spread the infection deeper into the bone. It happened to me and to so many people I know. Ask Dr. Kulacz. Even he will tell you that it's most important to just get rid of the dead material so that the

blood can flow, but not to take "extra". Remember, the blood is your immune system. We need to add antibiotics to the blood because it's impossible to remove all the bacteria that are in the area with cutting alone. Some docs try and they end up with people's faces caving in, or creating fistulas, etc., and patients as sick as ever. It's pretty sad that dentists don't receive a better education when they're dealing with one of the most infection prone areas of the body. An area that's proven to be linked to heart disease caused by dental bacteria. So many dental procedures are so traumatic to the bone, that the dentists are causing bone death and necrosis themselves allowing infection to further take hold. The fact that they don't recognize how sensitive this area of the body is, or that bacteria can be introduced into a surgical wound (or under the gumline) simply from dead skin on

lab coats, explains why the vast majority of dentists can't make a connection between dental practices and chronic illness. Sadly, many ENTs operate the same way. They see the sinuses as purely mechanical rather than a living part of the body. Of course, they're blinded by the dollar signs that come with surgery. penny Wallace Kingston <wpswallace@...> wrote: -Penny is saying that if you get the right team in place you'll be fine. I agree!You seem to be down playing the urgency and

extent of the problem. These bacterial toxins are preventing abx from clearing your chronic infection. It requires surgery!Get your team in place behind your dentist or oral surgeon if you prefer.Sunny thoughts,Wallace-- In infections , "dumbaussie2000" <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote:>> Wallace > Your missing the point. People need to use best science practise > when dealing with anything on the human body.You may have dead teeth > that need removal but by tapping in to an area that is walled off > and not very active (something at a low level smolder type scenario) > by going in and freshening things up your re kindling a monster.So > as Penny is tryoing to make you aware something very succesfull at > foirst followed by a few months of better

health can come back at > you 100 miles an hour as is often the case, to place you in a worse > more disastarous position than before.> > > > > > > > > > >> > Did Kulacz have a mansion? All I know is that docs like > > Teitalbaum charge over $5000 for a two hour appointment.> > > > Huggins got his license revoked to be a dentist so these few > dentists > > are really up against the ADA.> > > > To get better you will loose teeth. Weston Price taught that so I > > wonder how Penny would have got on with him!> > > > Post surgical care is crucial but that is not the dentists job so

> give > > the guys a break. Thats where we need Klinghardt etc.> > > > Hey after all that you(Penny) said it appears you actually liked > Kulacz!> > > > Yes I dont think a good dentist is a contradiction in terms but we > > mustn't expect too much of them!> > > > Is Suzin the writer on cavitations having another op? Just shows > > lumenphoton doesn't work.> > > > Unlike you I haven't spoken to hundreds of NICO patients but if it > > makes sense it makes sense and I dont see a big deal in losing a > few > > teeth! There is no alternative!> > > > Sinus surgery is something I would do as a very last resort if all > else > > failed. The same with head surgery.> > > > My point is lets not scare people unnecessarily. Infected,dead > teeth >

> need to be removed, period.> > > > Sunny thoughts,> > Wallace> >>