The Fall of the NSCA (CEU) Continuing Education Program

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with your sentiments, actually if you look at most of the

organizations it really comes down to them deriving money from the memberships

and ceu's and concerned more with income than the actual concern to continue the

education of its members.

I really thought the scherger rhetoric was over, especially since the mods

explained that he would no longer be able to post with all the self promotion.

He actually went away for awhile. I can honestly say I did not miss his endless

rambling that never really got to an ultimate point. He has not changed, as his

recent post is full of the analogies that he so much likes to use. I do hope

that and realize that they will get no where.

Damien Chiappini

Pittsburegh, PA.

Schaefer wrote:

<<<Thank you and for your opinions which fall in line with my own

reaction after reading that this amusing, yet unhelpful program described

previously has NSCA approval... I think my own general opinion of the

program in question has already been thoroughly well, less gently stated...

<grin>.

I have to add that in addition to approving what I don't consider valuable

programs for CEUs, NSCA has a focus which seems to be increasingly away from

useful things for the membership and toward marketing of itself and

increasing revenue derived from its members, not in serving the advancement

of lifting and science, and being of service to its members.

Why do I feel this way? All I have to do is review the content of the

Journals - and count the pages of ads vs useful content. Recently this has

become a full quarter of the pages, ads and other non useful content! I

would think by now NSCA members are well aware of what fancy and highly

priced merchandise they can buy showing they have bought into NSCA...?

In addition, when I review how much this organization now requires to

maintain just the annual membership, without counting the financial burden

of buying CEUs to keep my CSCS up to date, and see that it has risen in 6

years from $70 US to $115 US a year for membership alone, the main benefit

of which is said to be the publications?

I have read in the NSCA publication that the majority of NSCA members are

self employed trainers and other persons in such employment that is hardly

making anyone rich overnight? yet NSCA ups the rate of belonging and when

you write to them to ask in frustration about the escalating membership

annual fee, after 6 months someone sends you a window sticker and says " it's

due to the price of publishing the magazines " . Perhaps they can help cut

back the price of publishing the magazines by cutting out the many pages

devoted to selling NSCA to its own members?

I have to say that given the trend, I'm wondering if there isn't a better

organization to join. Given the fact they have approved the course in

question and other things I actually laughed at when I got the brochures

describing them and well, wouldn't think of taking even for CEUs.....? Very

few of the courses put forward for CEU usage would actually teach me

something I could use in my practice or my training...and yet the purported

purpose of CEU's is to in theory, CONTINUE your education in the field?

I also expected the cost of CEU seminars held at the new headquarters to be

lower in price than those dependent on selling rooms in the hotels before

they built the headquarters to help defray the expense in running the

seminar. That also has not happened, all things being as expensive as those

previously held in hotels? If the venue is an NSCA facility, how can they

not reduce the rate charged to their own members?

When I looked around at employment opportunities to use the CSCS after I got

it, I was told that it wasn't enough to do the job, that I had to get OTHER

certifications that were essentially qualifications to sell supplements and

other nonsense.... and to pay to take these silly classes as well! I

watched a show on cable the other day to discover that a prominent fitness

chain in NYC recommended you seek a trainer with membership with " American

Association of Personal Trainers " . Not NSCA. Not any organization that

currently has some respect in the field? Is NSCA penetration into the media

that shallow? Who the heck is AAPT? I'd never even heard of that outfit!

Thus, in my humble opinion, NSCA has a great deal to answer for to its

membership! I would like to see them take the initiative of lowering the

costs of belonging to the organization, improving their response and their

service to us.

After being a member for six years, I still get blank looks when I explain I

have an NSCA certification. The reason I joined NSCA was Mel's

recommendation. I cannot say whether he'd continue to recommend it now as

his current opinion sadly cannot be reached at this time.... That NSCA is

still somewhat " respected " is why I am still a member...but they have major

work to do in my humble opinion.>>>

[Guest guest]

I am beginning to think I was some pawn of a bunch of fifth

columnists for their own dark reasons are staging some complaining

fest about the NSCA.

I think the NSCA is program is great. I do not belong to the NSCA

get the magazine or anything. All I know is when I finished our

research and put findings into course form when I looked around for

the most competent venue to subject the work to, it was plainly the

NSCA.

If anyone of you have learned something from yours years of hands on

working with clients or in your case as massage therapist, patients

you can just go out and start talking to any groups that will

listen.

Now you can take advantage of the NSCA peer review process and

before you talk about your material you submit to them first for a

modest fee. To me for the money the best bargain in the country is

first being able to subject your work to the NSCA for peer review

before you open your mouth.

you are complaining about the NSCA courses. . You

state " Given the fact they have approved the course in question and

other things I actually laughed at when I got the brochures

describing them and well, wouldn't think of taking even for

CEUs.....? Very few of the courses put forward for CEU usage would

actually teach me something I could use in my practice or my

training...and yet the purported purpose of CEU's is to in theory,

CONTINUE your education in the field? "

the NSCA have no control over who submits them courses for

peer review for CEU's. They have to count on people like you to do

that. Hopefully some massage therapist will see a better way of

doing things and want to teach it to people like you.

Hopefully that massage therapist will submit the courses to the NSCA

and pay the submission fees so they can help in developing it

presentation and soundness so it can be offered eventually to you.

Hopefully it will be a course you subjectively feel you want and

need and will be happy.

If they do not have the courses you want or think you need look in

the mirror, the NSCA is counting on you to step up to the plate and

develop something for all.

Massage therapy is one of the greatest health professions devised by

humans for humans. I am not joking. I always say if I had to have

one thing done to me for eternity it would be an accomplished

massage therapist working my neck, shoulders and skull. If I had my

way it would be law that car accident cervical whiplash victim

requiring any treatment (drugs, ultrasound, adjustment just lump

them all together) that they be required to receive treatment from

massage therapist first.

You state " Very few of the courses put forward for CEU usage would

actually teach me something I could use in my practice or my

training...and yet the purported purpose of CEU's is to in theory,

CONTINUE your education in the field? "

As massage therapist you must work with people's backs and necks.

What classes do you perceive you would want to help you in your

practice? Maybe if you even voiced want you wanted someone

listening with initiative might be spurred on to develop a course

that fits your wants.

There are some who subscribe to the saying it is better to light one

candle then to curse the darkness.

You are complaining about the money. The requirements for

maintaining annual membership, without counting the financial burden

of buying CEUs to keep my CSCS up to date, and see that it has risen

in 6 years from $70 US to $115 US a year for membership alone "

no one can pay for free anymore. With the increase in price

of gas, housing etc everything costs more. I need 75 continuing

education credits every three years. The cost of insurance,

physical plant, taxes etc is becoming horrendous but we are in same

boat.

I look around and see what the NSCA has done to provide peer

reviewed courses to their members and am astounded. You are massage

therapist, how many therapist courses have you taken that have been

peer reviewed. The courses in my field have no peer review process

in place like the NSCA.

Home study or distance learning courses is a growing method of

academic delivery. It is for me a very affordable way to obtain

credits and at the same time take courses that specifically interest

me..

We sent out a simple report that we get back from students that have

taken the courses. From the following student questionnaire we have

had the following response. We send a questionnaire with 4

questions. The student is instructed to write a number 1-5, that

best answers the question. The number 5 is their best response to

the question and 1 is the poorest response. Out of the last 76

students that returned their questionnaire we had the following

responses:

Is content pertinent to strength and conditioning?

46/5 24/4. 4/3 2/2 0/1

Is content presented at appropriate level?

38/5 28/4 8/3 0/2 2/1

Is content organized well?

44/5 24/4 7/3 0/2 1/1

Is testing emphasis on pertinent material?

45/5 27/4 3/3 1/ 2 0/1

Now this is part of the required material I required to keep by the

NSCA for their academic review or audit. Now I had out of the last

76 professionals/students taking the course not one gave it the

lowest mark possible when it came to stating was the content

pertinent to strength and conditioning. 46 gave it the highest mark

possible. In addition to the questions they were asked to submit

written comments.

Now do you think I or any person in rational position of

authority would assign any validity to person on this group that has

not taken the course just ranting and raving the material is no

good.

These are people that are interested in the material I offer. They

previewed my web page spinalfitness.com and they like what they

saw. They then took the course work and then their opinions were

collected. They have implemented the training procedures we honed at

the professional and olympic level.

I see this condition as a strength and condition problem and not as

chemical medicine problem. I am interested in explaining to those

strength coaches that are interested how these conditions can be

created and how by exercise they can be orthopedically corrected.

How with the proper knowledge they can take control of the condition

when the case is being worked in concert with physical therapists,

chiropractors, surgeons massage therapists etc.

When I was looking for accrediting program I wanted the best. When

I looked to see who was " looking over their shoulder " I saw some of

the following type of material. Now lets us examine from their

website a little bit who is looking over their shoulder

National Skill Standards Board (NSSB)

The NSCA Certification Commission was recognized for quality

assurance by the National Skill Standards Board for its specialty

fitness certifications in 2002.

ISO 9001:2000 Registration

The NSCA Certification Commission is the first fitness certification

organization to become registered to (International Organization for

Standardization) ISO 9001:2000 for customer care. The NSCA

Certification Commission earned recognition in February 2004 from

QMI (Quality Management Institute) for having a quality management

system that meets all the requirements of the ISO 9001:2000

standard.

Achieving ISO 9001:2000 registration validates the NSCA

Certification Commission's commitment to a quality management system

and should provide a sense of confidence among candidates and

certificate holders. The NSCA Certification Commission continues to

define the industry by establishing itself as a worldwide leader in

strength and conditioning and fitness certification by obtaining the

nationally and internationally recognized and respected ISO

9001:2000 registration.

The CSCS and NSCA-CPT certifications are accredited by the National

Commission for Certifying Agencies.

Now if Casler has anything to say that is wrong about my

courses or the NSCA relative to my courses here is what he can do.

He can first find in our material the proofs that he thinks that are

wrong and then he can produce his own evidence or proof of what is

right. I would personally and professionally look forward to that

appropriate aacademic effort.

Scherger

Ridgefield WA

-- In Supertraining , " Schaefer "

wrote:

>

> Thank you and for your opinions which fall in line with

my own

> reaction after reading that this amusing, yet unhelpful program

described

> previously has NSCA approval... I think my own general opinion of

the

> program in question has already been thoroughly well, less gently

stated...

> <grin>.

>

> I have to add that in addition to approving what I don't consider

valuable

> programs for CEUs, NSCA has a focus which seems to be increasingly

away from

> useful things for the membership and toward marketing of itself

and

> increasing revenue derived from its members, not in serving the

advancement

> of lifting and science, and being of service to its members.

>

> Why do I feel this way? All I have to do is review the content of

the

> Journals - and count the pages of ads vs useful content. Recently

this has

> become a full quarter of the pages, ads and other non useful

content! I

> would think by now NSCA members are well aware of what fancy and

highly

> priced merchandise they can buy showing they have bought into

NSCA...?

>

> In addition, when I review how much this organization now requires

to

> maintain just the annual membership, without counting the

financial burden

> of buying CEUs to keep my CSCS up to date, and see that it has

risen in 6

> years from $70 US to $115 US a year for membership alone, the main

benefit

> of which is said to be the publications?

>

> I have read in the NSCA publication that the majority of NSCA

members are

> self employed trainers and other persons in such employment that

is hardly

> making anyone rich overnight? yet NSCA ups the rate of belonging

and when

> you write to them to ask in frustration about the escalating

membership

> annual fee, after 6 months someone sends you a window sticker and

says " it's

> due to the price of publishing the magazines " . Perhaps they can

help cut

> back the price of publishing the magazines by cutting out the many

pages

> devoted to selling NSCA to its own members?

>

> I have to say that given the trend, I'm wondering if there isn't a

better

> organization to join. Given the fact they have approved the

course in

> question and other things I actually laughed at when I got the

brochures

> describing them and well, wouldn't think of taking even for

CEUs.....? Very

> few of the courses put forward for CEU usage would actually teach

me

> something I could use in my practice or my training...and yet the

purported

> purpose of CEU's is to in theory, CONTINUE your education in the

field?

>

> I also expected the cost of CEU seminars held at the new

headquarters to be

> lower in price than those dependent on selling rooms in the hotels

before

> they built the headquarters to help defray the expense in running

the

> seminar. That also has not happened, all things being as

expensive as those

> previously held in hotels? If the venue is an NSCA facility, how

can they

> not reduce the rate charged to their own members?

>

> When I looked around at employment opportunities to use the CSCS

after I got

> it, I was told that it wasn't enough to do the job, that I had to

get OTHER

> certifications that were essentially qualifications to sell

supplements and

> other nonsense.... and to pay to take these silly classes as

well! I

> watched a show on cable the other day to discover that a prominent

fitness

> chain in NYC recommended you seek a trainer with membership

with " American

> Association of Personal Trainers " . Not NSCA. Not any

organization that

> currently has some respect in the field? Is NSCA penetration into

the media

> that shallow? Who the heck is AAPT? I'd never even heard of that

outfit!

>

> Thus, in my humble opinion, NSCA has a great deal to answer for to

its

> membership! I would like to see them take the initiative of

lowering the

> costs of belonging to the organization, improving their response

and their

> service to us.

>

> After being a member for six years, I still get blank looks when I

explain I

> have an NSCA certification. The reason I joined NSCA was Mel's

> recommendation. I cannot say whether he'd continue to recommend

it now as

> his current opinion sadly cannot be reached at this time.... That

NSCA is

> still somewhat " respected " is why I am still a member...but they

have major

> work to do in my humble opinion.

>

> The Phantom

> aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

> Denver, Colorado, USA

[Guest guest]

Scherger wrote:

I am beginning to think I was some pawn of a bunch of fifth

columnists for their own dark reasons are staging some complaining

fest about the NSCA.

I think the NSCA is program is great. I do not belong to the NSCA

get the magazine or anything. All I know is when I finished our

research and put findings into course form when I looked around for

the most competent venue to subject the work to, it was plainly the

NSCA.

Casler writes:

, you certainly are not a " pawn " in some kind of drama.

You are simply a " blindered " zealot for your program, which has enough

technical mumbo jumbo to allow it to have buoyancy when it should not.

I have and still do support the NSCA. One of my best friends, mentor and

college Coach, Dr. Borden, was president of the NSCA.

I can, as well as others, show my support, by being critical of errant

actions.

I might go back to a time when this very Coach, (Borden) who volunteered his

time to coach the " Weight Team " (SHOT/HAMMER/DISCUS) at the University of

KY, used to " ride " me with critical comments (not mean, but critical).

One day I asked him why he was " always " so critical, and he said " Casler,

the day I don't critique you, will be the day that I don't care " .

So take a lesson . The day that people don't offer you advise, or

critique you, will be the day they cease to care about you and what you

stand for and do.

You mentioned, in an earlier post about " caring " . Caring, does not yield

results. It is simply a state of being. A state of interest.

You state how much you care, yet fail to grow with valid criticism. These

critiques from me are not personal, nor ego driven (for the most part).

They are motivated by an interest in creating a complete and growing

awareness of the subject. Your occasional comments demonstrate that you

have lost your interest in " learning " and feel you already have the answer.

You do not.

Regards,

Casler

TRI-VECTOR 3-D Force Systems

Century City, CA