Re: Pennyhoule, need your help about actinomy...

[Guest guest]

Mega doses of penicillin plus an agent that has beta lactamase

inhibitors.You should also have possably some pseudonomads coverage,

this guy seems to pop up in a lot of cultures but I see it as a

point of growth problem, as opposed to systemic problem. Not to say

it's not attributable to many systemic deaths in the hospital

setting...On your other attributes I would get the facts from

tarello as far as babesia and co infections that need more

attention .. Himself having treated many animal models does have the

score on the borad as to what needs doing.I also think he's blood

smear report may be the 'best small amount of money' anyone spends.

> > > Are all the bone infections bone eating? And are they all

> treated

> > the same?

> > > Is staph less seriou than actino?

> > > I just wanted to have an idea of what's out there, the

> symptoms,

> > medication,

> > > that's all. i don't want any magic answers , just an idea of

> > alternative Jaw

> > > Infections and their symptoms

> > > thanks

[Guest guest]

Jill, Tony's talking about the " zone " in the agar around the bug in

the the culture plate. If that zone is BIG, it means the abx is having

very little, if any, effect against the bug. If it's very small, then

it means the abx is effective at controlling the bug, not allowing it

to grow.

penny

> What is the zone? IE does it destroy red blood cells?

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

Staph is a very serious infection once you become susceptible to it.

It's the leading cause of death by infection in hospitals.

Unfortunately, only a few knowledgeable doctors realize how serious it

is because everyone carries staph on their skin and this is

considered " normal flora " in healthy people. When it's chronic and

systemic, the way it is in us, it's extremely damaging, affecting any

part of the body that you may have a predisposed weakness in. A lot

less is known about actinomycoces. It's harder to test for.

Personally, I'm not all that concerned at this point which bugs are

there, because I can do therapeutic probes with abx and know if

they're helping or not by a lessening or resolution of symptoms.

However, in the beginning, having the cultures done was a huge help,

because one, it gave me credibility with my docs because bone should

never have ANY bacteria growing in it, and two, it steered me away

from all those useless antibiotics that would have never worked if I

didn't know my staph, pseudomonas, strep, etc were resistant to them.

In a perfect world, I'd like to test my organisms weekly to better

guide my treatment. That's what Tony did (more like daily), and he's

well now. Unfortunately, here in the states, that's pretty much

impossible, unless you get your own lab supplies and do it yourself.

penny

> Are all the bone infections bone eating? And are they all treated

the same?

> Is staph less seriou than actino?

> I just wanted to have an idea of what's out there, the symptoms,

medication,

> that's all. i don't want any magic answers , just an idea of

alternative Jaw

> Infections and their symptoms

> thanks

[Guest guest]

Hey Tony,

At my retreat, we did a lot of breathing exercises and recitation,

which I think would benefit all pwc, even those of us who can't

exercise. Recitation is very beneficial to your health because

you're breathing out MUCH longer than you're breathing in, and I

think this is definitely expelling the C02.

This was the first time in a long time that I was able to do some

hiking. The first few days or so, I felt like I was going to die

after hiking up the hill, but there was suddenly a shift and I felt

kind of fantastic. Like I was taking a lot of air into my lungs.

This retreat was also in Oregon, where the trees along the trail are

very dense and there's a lot of moisture in the air. Which I think

was also producing a lot of oxygen. I think the combo of all the

breathing, hiking, recitation, increased oxygen and decreased C02

really helped me. Along with the combo of drugs I was on. Even

though it was a very demanding retreat as far as using up a lot of

energy, I came home feeling really well. No crash.

There was also one of those CHI machines at the retreat that a lot

of people were using. (You wouldn't believe how many medical people

were there. We had 3 acupuncturists, a chiropractor, and a regular

MD, among others.) Anyway, this CHI machine was popular. It's

considered a passive exerciser, designed to remove toxins from the

body. You're supposed to drink a lot of water after using it.

I have one, but don't much use it (maybe I'll start again), but

perhaps for people who are very exercise intolerant (as most people

with CFS are), using this device along with doing a lot of breathing

exercises, could be very helpful. Just a thought.

Doing a google search will find you a lot of sites on chi machines,

and you can usually find one on Ebay for really cheap. You don't

need the fancy ones. http://www.iwr.com/chimachine/

penny

> > Hi Aussie,

> > yeah there was a clear link between the exercise and my health!

> This was

> > always a topic of interest for me. what do you think about the

> hyperbaric oxygen

> > therapy? Maybe we can erdicate these anaerobic infections by

> moderate

> > exercise , swimming is good for supplying lot's of 02 to the

bod.

> > I still don't understand how you managed to culture all this

> bacteria. Here

> > in Canada, I don't even believe that tests for such rare jaw

> infections are

> > available.

> > Perhaps my best bet would be to just to start penicillin G in a

> few weeks?

> > What do I have to lose? I can most likely get on it for my lyme

> and If it

> > doesn't help the jaw issue, then hey what will.!I have been on

> oral penicillin 2

> > months, amoxicillin 3 months, clindamycin 2 months, biaxin and

> flagyl 9

> > months,

> > ketek and flagyl 4 months, and now started zithro and rifampin.

I

> have

> > pretty much tried everything out there!! Don't all these jaw

> infections respond

> > generally to the same thing?

> > You kinda freaked me out with the whole toxin thing, very true.

If

> it burns,

> > then it must cause damage. Is there a way to know the severity?

> Ok, so I've

> > got a cat scan on my list, maybe slowly start exercising, oxygen

> therapy, and

> > then penicillin G.

> > thanks for your helpful response

> > Lynn

[Guest guest]

Kay

See what you mean, the zone around bacteria not using antibiotics at

this point shows how toxic they are.This zone is called alpha, beta,

or gamma haemolysis as opposed to tetracycline, imepenam,

methicillin, bactrim, chlopremphenicol usage which shows what the

best choice is against yuour problem bug.

I firstly want to see a bacteria performing badly- before attacking

it with antibiotics.Hey there's a good home video in that title.

Jill pay attention to that last bit before we go any further with

your last post.

> > What is the zone? IE does it destroy red blood cells?

[Guest guest]

Actually going back and reading, you misunderstood penny.You've

actually confused Jill more than she was already confused- there's

an autoimmune ilness in that alone.

> > What is the zone? IE does it destroy red blood cells?

[Guest guest]

Penny

Everything is on the cards for getting one well.Basically treat it

as a full time job, otherwise your a little out of luck in my

opinion for reaching the highest ground and maintaining it.Off

course young people, and exceptionally gifted people 'have got some

family genetics' that make it easier, but there's only a full

throttle approach in my book for regaining ones health.

I just know improvement at any cost- actually only hard abx therapy

gave me gains due to the major destruction the fibromyalgia caused

my body.I just basically recall one rib at a time, followed by one

vein at a time, followed by eye toxicity that waxed and waned till

it disappeared.etc. etc and there's still no backing off as the body

has been aged dramatically in the scheme of things.

That Chi machine is getting the flows going in your body IMO,

possably the lymphatics that need a good workout.

> > > Hi Aussie,

> > > yeah there was a clear link between the exercise and my

health!

> > This was

> > > always a topic of interest for me. what do you think about the

> > hyperbaric oxygen

> > > therapy? Maybe we can erdicate these anaerobic infections by

> > moderate

> > > exercise , swimming is good for supplying lot's of 02 to the

> bod.

> > > I still don't understand how you managed to culture all this

> > bacteria. Here

> > > in Canada, I don't even believe that tests for such rare jaw

> > infections are

> > > available.

> > > Perhaps my best bet would be to just to start penicillin G in

a

> > few weeks?

> > > What do I have to lose? I can most likely get on it for my

lyme

> > and If it

> > > doesn't help the jaw issue, then hey what will.!I have been on

> > oral penicillin 2

> > > months, amoxicillin 3 months, clindamycin 2 months, biaxin and

> > flagyl 9

> > > months,

> > > ketek and flagyl 4 months, and now started zithro and

rifampin.

> I

> > have

> > > pretty much tried everything out there!! Don't all these jaw

> > infections respond

> > > generally to the same thing?

> > > You kinda freaked me out with the whole toxin thing, very

true.

> If

> > it burns,

> > > then it must cause damage. Is there a way to know the

severity?

> > Ok, so I've

> > > got a cat scan on my list, maybe slowly start exercising,

oxygen

> > therapy, and

> > > then penicillin G.

> > > thanks for your helpful response

> > > Lynn

[Guest guest]

Tony, I'm confused. WHat does alpha, beta or gamma haemolysis mean? I

thought haemolysis would be destruction of red blood cells?

By bacteria performing badly you mean, inhibited, right?

> > > What is the zone? IE does it destroy red blood cells?

[Guest guest]

Well no big surprise there, Tony. I don't even understand this post.

lol!

penny

> > > What is the zone? IE does it destroy red blood cells?

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

thanx for your responses.Tony, penny and everyone else, I was wondering if I could get some of your input on this:

Something strange has been going on over the past two nites. I have been on zithromax for a week now and the first thing that happened was I acquired the salty taste in my mouth for the first time; perhaps zithro activated it or something. The salty taste grew to extremes over the past week untill I started tasting something dripping from my forehead down my throat between the hours of 5:30 and 7 am last night and the previous night as well..Just last night I spat into a kleenex only to notice brown goowy chunks of soemthing. I woke up this morning and looked at the kleenex, it had tiny crystals on it that had formed throughout the night, perhaps a reaction with oxygen.

Anyways I'm sure this must be a charactersitic of some infection that is way up in my skull and sinus cavities, maybe it's what's all around my face and makes it swell. It sorta tastes like strep, but I'm not sure. I got my mom to go to the lab and pick up a sputum sample.

When this will reoccur between the same hours, then I will spit into the container and then put it into the fridge untill the labs will open at 8 am. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle the sample, or Tony you seem very experienced in this stuff, have any ideas?

i'm a bit excited as it's somehting new and maybe a better lead?

Thanks so much

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Penny,

thanx for your response.

I spat them out on a kleenex last night and they're very visible today. They're crytall like and clear with a touch of shine to them, kinda like snow when it first falls down in the winter,

or white glitter sparkles, real weird. Some are larger, others, smaller.

My mom's coming back from the lab with a sputm sample for me so I will spit into it tonight.

Do you think these crystalls are what gives the salt tstae in our mouth?

Last night I spat out chunks of browm mucus, that was pourring in from my forehead to my throat. The clear mucus even has the crystals too. This has never happened to me before!

Maybe because I have an impaired immune system , and now zithromax activated it or somehtin like that, I know it's must be the work of zithro.Penny, you mentioned that you're on zithro right now, do you find it's helpful, because for some reason i feel it is the first effective abx for me apart from penicillin..My pharm books syas that zithromax is superior than penicillin in cerain infections including strep.

mom's back right now. So I guess I'll just spit into the container and then get the lab to culture it, I will make sure that the container is sealed so that oxygen won't enter it.Should I also freeze it ? The lab opens at 8 and this happens at like 6 am so I need to place it somewhere..

Good news , I emailed Dr. Glueck, managed to find his email. If anyone else wants it I have it. He'll be back on the 19 so hopefully I'll hear from him then.

thanx everyone

Lynn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/05 11:58:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dumbaussie2000@... writes:

come out of your mouth which will give it numerous oral organisms possably nothing to do with participating in your ilness. I wo

Hi tony, the weird thing is I can feel it being pulled from my forehead and then it pours like water dwon my throat and I had to cough it out through my mouth to see what it was. It comes from deep within somewhere.perhaps I have this all arounf my skull and sinuses. Right now I feel my cheek bones and eyebrow bones having the "pulling sensation on them. we'll see what will happen tonight.

The thing about culturing, I have two lab containers. If anything does come out tonight, then I would have to cab it to my doctor's at 9 am to get him to fill out the requisition form. He just fills out sputum, so I don't know can they just check for general infections, or should I get him to write actinomyces, staph, strepto, what else? He 's not very knowledgeable but kind so medically I have to tell him the exact tests. It's unfortunate that I would have to get the actomyces cultured within 15 min, but maybe somehitng will be observed in the lab and that's a first step.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Tony, that is very good news. I certainly hope they'll be able to figure something out by the process of elimination, which infectionns produce crystalls. And like Penny said, i'll keep some of the crystalls on kleenex untill one fine day a knowledegeable doc will identify them. So the fridge is fine?Just don't know what to ask my doctor to write on the requisition form and without me telling him, he won't write anything!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/05 11:07:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pennyhoule@... writes:

You should just ask the lab to grow ANYTHING they can, including "normal flora" like staph and strep and pseudomonas and ask them to test for antibiotic sensitivities. At least that's a start to help you determine which abx to use, and to find out which organisms you're dealing with besides actino (if you do have it).

The labs here in Canada where the tests are covered by OHIP, are so limited. I find private labs do a much better job. So should my doc just write on the requisition form: test for antibiotic sensitivities and and check for staph, strep and pseudonmas? sorry for asking so many questions, I just don't have a reliable doctor and the labs suck.

lynn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/05 11:58:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dumbaussie2000@... writes:

should do a sinus swab

I think It's a sinus swab/and sputum mixedbecause it's pouring out both ways in brown, through the nose and down the throat from up in the forehead, etc.Then crystalls arise.

thanx

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

Crystal like granules are a definite byproduct of actinomyces. If it

were me, I would spit them out on a very white cloth and collect

them to show to some doctor or lab. The organisms will not live once

exposed to oxygen so they won't be able to culture them, but if you

can find a hospital lab with a good microscope and some semi-

intelligent personnel, they might be able to identify them for you

as actino, since you've got the granules.

Here's a quote from a website regarding ways to test for actino (it

doesn't give the actual culturing instructions, which have to be

very precise, but gives you a couple of alternatives to culturing):

Signs And Tests (for actinomyces):

Examination of drained fluid under a microscope demonstrates " sulfur

granules " in the fluid

Examination under a microscope shows the presence of Actinomyces

species of bacteria

A culture of the tissue or fluid shows Actinomyces species

http://www.drgreene.org/body.cfm?id=49 & action=Display & articlenum=599

In the meantime, you may actually want to go to some place like the

Mayo Clinic because they'd HAVE to treat you whether they want to or

not (liability) and they should be able to recognize that you've got

a serious infection like actino. The Doctor to contact there is Dr.

Vaness. If I were you, I'd write him a well thought out letter and

see if he would be willing to help you.

I also know a fantastic MD/radiologist in New Mexico if you're

willing to go there. Email me if you want his name.

The penicillin is probably a good idea, since you've had success

with it before. Just be sure to take photos of your face now and any

time the swelling goes up or down with treatment (I'd even hold up a

newspaper with a date on it, since doctors never seem to want to

believe us).

I told my friend a lot about you, and she thinks you've probably got

got actinomyces, among other things, as she recognizes many of the

symptoms.

You need to do google searchs on actinomyces and also chronic

osteomyelitis of the jaw, (and don't allow a " NICO surgeon " to touch

you) and find out everything you can about the actino and the other

common bacteria found in bone infections.

penny

--- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

> Hi everyone,

> thanx for your responses.Tony, penny and everyone else, I was

wondering if I

> could get some of your input on this:

> Something strange has been going on over the past two nites. I

have been on

> zithromax for a week now and the first thing that happened was I

acquired the

> salty taste in my mouth for the first time; perhaps zithro

activated it or

> something. The salty taste grew to extremes over the past week

untill I started

> tasting something dripping from my forehead down my throat

between the hours

> of 5:30 and 7 am last night and the previous night as well..Just

last night

> I spat into a kleenex only to notice brown goowy chunks of

soemthing. I woke

> up this morning and looked at the kleenex, it had tiny crystals

on it that

> had formed throughout the night, perhaps a reaction with oxygen.

> Anyways I'm sure this must be a charactersitic of some infection

that is way

> up in my skull and sinus cavities, maybe it's what's all around my

face and

> makes it swell. It sorta tastes like strep, but I'm not sure. I

got my mom to

> go to the lab and pick up a sputum sample.

> When this will reoccur between the same hours, then I will spit

into the

> container and then put it into the fridge untill the labs will

open at 8 am.

> Does anyone have any advice on how to handle the sample, or Tony

you seem very

> experienced in this stuff, have any ideas?

> i'm a bit excited as it's somehting new and maybe a better lead?

> Thanks so much

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

Lynn, you can't grow actino that way. It must be kept warm and

gotten to the lab within 15 minutes or it dies. I'm a bit frustrated

because I've told you this several times. That's why it's so hard to

test for.

You should just ask the lab to grow ANYTHING they can,

including " normal flora " like staph and strep and pseudomonas and

ask them to test for antibiotic sensitivities. At least that's a

start to help you determine which abx to use, and to find out which

organisms you're dealing with besides actino (if you do have it).

The crystals you should collect (IMO) on a white background so that

you can get someone with a microscope to look at it. The actino

itself will be long dead by the time you get it to the lab (unless

you spit right outside the doorway, maybe you'd have a chance then?

If you do spit at the lab, be sure to tell them you want to test for

actino and that it must be kept at the proper temperature, and that

they're using the right culture medium, other wise it's a wasted

effort).

Yes, zithro has been helpful for me. It was slower to take off than

other drugs, but I definitely feel it has helped. I also think the

penicillin is helping with my jaw infection a lot. I'm taking both

together. I've taken many abx but they eventually stop working as

the bugs adapt. So far the zithro has been very long lasting, and

apparently penicillin is too, if you take large enough doses. Too

small, and you're just making your problem worse, according to a

local Infectious disease doc.

I'm going to post some links for you to look at below, and in a

following post some really interesting dental studies that we can

all probably learn from.

penny

Actinomyces spp. usually appear as molar tooth colonies on agar or

bread crumb colonies in broth. It is difficult to cultivate these

organisms, particularly if the patient has been treated with

antimicrobials before culture. Two weeks could be required for

isolation. Actinomyces spp. are often found in polymicrobial

infections. Actinobacillus actinomycetemcomitans accompanies

actinomycosis in up to 30% of cases. 4 Sulfur granules, which are

yellow or orange, can sometimes be seen in affected tissues.

However, the lack of these granules does not preclude infection.

http://64.233.167.104/search?

q=cache:j6OW2qHlqcoJ:www.pidj.com/pt/re/pidj/fulltext.00006454-

200109000-00015.htm+actinomyces+tv & hl=en

and:

http://www.whnt.com/global/story.asp?s=1230576

>

> mom's back right now. So I guess I'll just spit into the container

and then get the lab to culture it, I will make sure that the

container is sealed so that oxygen won't enter it.Should I also

freeze it ? The lab opens at 8 and this happens at like 6 am so I

need to place it somewhere..

>

[Guest guest]

Lynn

Some antibiotics reach large area's of infection and create havoc. I

would definately like to know what that sputum shows but it does

come out of your mouth which will give it numerous oral organisms

possably nothing to do with participating in your ilness. I would

expect pseudonomads and staphs up above the oral cavity. You really

should do a sinus swab as well, and remeber NOTHING IS TO BE

OVERLOOKED. Heavy growths are a possably indicator of something ..

--- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

> Hi everyone,

> thanx for your responses.Tony, penny and everyone else, I was

wondering if I

> could get some of your input on this:

> Something strange has been going on over the past two nites. I

have been on

> zithromax for a week now and the first thing that happened was I

acquired the

> salty taste in my mouth for the first time; perhaps zithro

activated it or

> something. The salty taste grew to extremes over the past week

untill I started

> tasting something dripping from my forehead down my throat

between the hours

> of 5:30 and 7 am last night and the previous night as well..Just

last night

> I spat into a kleenex only to notice brown goowy chunks of

soemthing. I woke

> up this morning and looked at the kleenex, it had tiny crystals

on it that

> had formed throughout the night, perhaps a reaction with oxygen.

> Anyways I'm sure this must be a charactersitic of some infection

that is way

> up in my skull and sinus cavities, maybe it's what's all around my

face and

> makes it swell. It sorta tastes like strep, but I'm not sure. I

got my mom to

> go to the lab and pick up a sputum sample.

> When this will reoccur between the same hours, then I will spit

into the

> container and then put it into the fridge untill the labs will

open at 8 am.

> Does anyone have any advice on how to handle the sample, or Tony

you seem very

> experienced in this stuff, have any ideas?

> i'm a bit excited as it's somehting new and maybe a better lead?

> Thanks so much

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

Penny

bacteria are hearty and will do fine in the fridge they don't

multiply in this setting. With the crystals they have enough info in

most labs to make a reasonable assumption as to what is going on. I

recall my lab friends book collection was extensive and precise,

basically the latest and greatest info showing all types of

bacterial infestations.

--- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

> Hi Penny,

> thanx for your response.

> I spat them out on a kleenex last night and they're very visible

today.

> They're crytall like and clear with a touch of shine to them,

kinda like snow

> when it first falls down in the winter,

> or white glitter sparkles, real weird. Some are larger, others,

smaller.

> My mom's coming back from the lab with a sputm sample for me so I

will spit

> into it tonight.

> Do you think these crystalls are what gives the salt tstae in our

mouth?

> Last night I spat out chunks of browm mucus, that was pourring in

from my

> forehead to my throat. The clear mucus even has the crystals too.

This has

> never happened to me before!

> Maybe because I have an impaired immune system , and now

zithromax activated

> it or somehtin like that, I know it's must be the work of

zithro.Penny, you

> mentioned that you're on zithro right now, do you find it's

helpful, because

> for some reason i feel it is the first effective abx for me apart

from

> penicillin..My pharm books syas that zithromax is superior than

penicillin in

> cerain infections including strep.

>

> mom's back right now. So I guess I'll just spit into the container

and then

> get the lab to culture it, I will make sure that the container is

sealed so

> that oxygen won't enter it.Should I also freeze it ? The lab

opens at 8 and

> this happens at like 6 am so I need to place it somewhere..

> Good news , I emailed Dr. Glueck, managed to find his email. If

anyone else

> wants it I have it. He'll be back on the 19 so hopefully I'll hear

from him

> then.

> thanx everyone

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

Tony, Actino won't live in the fridge. It won't live when exposed to

air. But the other organisms are fine. I agree 100% with you that

she should really get a nasal swab, however, if she's spitting out

crystals, they might show something. She should really do both.

penny

> > Hi Penny,

> > thanx for your response.

> > I spat them out on a kleenex last night and they're very visible

> today.

> > They're crytall like and clear with a touch of shine to them,

> kinda like snow

> > when it first falls down in the winter,

> > or white glitter sparkles, real weird. Some are larger, others,

> smaller.

> > My mom's coming back from the lab with a sputm sample for me so

I

> will spit

> > into it tonight.

> > Do you think these crystalls are what gives the salt tstae in

our

> mouth?

> > Last night I spat out chunks of browm mucus, that was pourring

in

> from my

> > forehead to my throat. The clear mucus even has the crystals

too.

> This has

> > never happened to me before!

> > Maybe because I have an impaired immune system , and now

> zithromax activated

> > it or somehtin like that, I know it's must be the work of

> zithro.Penny, you

> > mentioned that you're on zithro right now, do you find it's

> helpful, because

> > for some reason i feel it is the first effective abx for me

apart

> from

> > penicillin..My pharm books syas that zithromax is superior than

> penicillin in

> > cerain infections including strep.

> >

> > mom's back right now. So I guess I'll just spit into the

container

> and then

> > get the lab to culture it, I will make sure that the container

is

> sealed so

> > that oxygen won't enter it.Should I also freeze it ? The lab

> opens at 8 and

> > this happens at like 6 am so I need to place it somewhere..

> > Good news , I emailed Dr. Glueck, managed to find his email. If

> anyone else

> > wants it I have it. He'll be back on the 19 so hopefully I'll

hear

> from him

> > then.

> > thanx everyone

> > Lynn

[Guest guest]

Oh Gosh,

The past year I had to to reverse psychology on docs Tony. A different act for a different doc just to get me my meds and now the lyme papers, I don't have to beg.

But yes , always I had to play a role . Luckily my current doctor doesn't really speak English so whatver I tell him he just smiles and nods. But in terms of getting any medical advice from him , that's impossible and I have to spell the tests out for him

The labs are equally competent here too.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Lynn

Basically you want to get all the information you can every time

something shows up. Doing cultures should not really be a one time

deal, you basically want a few to form an opinion of what the heck

is growing there. Your actually very right when you say this thing

is huge and all over your skull.My only surprise is that your not

systemically ill like most of us giving me an idea the infection

casuing the problem is going to be interesting. I also think yuour

age may keep you functioning at a higher level.

But plan on getting all the facts about what is going on in your

sample as opposed to a generic attempt, something mcdonalds serves

up and shouldn't be practised by anyone in medicine.You give a

sample and they say you don't have strep pyogenes the fact that the

other 5 bugs present kill all hospitalised patinets seems irrelevant

to this simple lab request.

--- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

>

> In a message dated 8/11/05 11:58:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> dumbaussie2000@y... writes:

>

> come out of your mouth which will give it numerous oral organisms

> possably nothing to do with participating in your ilness. I wo

>

>

> Hi tony, the weird thing is I can feel it being pulled from my

forehead and

> then it pours like water dwon my throat and I had to cough it out

through my

> mouth to see what it was. It comes from deep within

somewhere.perhaps I have

> this all arounf my skull and sinuses. Right now I feel my cheek

bones and

> eyebrow bones having the " pulling sensation on them. we'll see

what will happen

> tonight.

> The thing about culturing, I have two lab containers. If anything

does come

> out tonight, then I would have to cab it to my doctor's at 9 am to

get him to

> fill out the requisition form. He just fills out sputum, so I

don't know can

> they just check for general infections, or should I get him to

write

> actinomyces, staph, strepto, what else? He 's not very

knowledgeable but kind so

> medically I have to tell him the exact tests. It's unfortunate

that I would have

> to get the actomyces cultured within 15 min, but maybe somehitng

will be

> observed in the lab and that's a first step.

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

Basically the lab should have a 'small idea of what your going thru'

and that they should JUST REPORT ON WHAT THEY FIND, not what they

consider relevant or irrelevant.The facst that your having major

problems in fascial bones being attacked by something- is a good thing

for them to think about.Just be careful thjat you don't end up in the

very generic department that kicks in in labs trying to pinch pennies.

> Tony, that is very good news. I certainly hope they'll be able to

figure

> something out by the process of elimination, which infectionns

produce

> crystalls. And like Penny said, i'll keep some of the crystalls on

kleenex untill one

> fine day a knowledegeable doc will identify them. So the fridge is

fine?Just

> don't know what to ask my doctor to write on the requisition form

and

> without me telling him, he won't write anything!

[Guest guest]

Lynn

Don't go blowing everyone away with too much info, keep it simple,

make everyone help you with just 'simple step' reqests, doctors are

overwhelmed when they have to walk from one room to the next, asking

them to put tooo much effort into anything just DON " T HAPPEN.So get

the test done ask that the whole of the bacterial growths be

recorded and nothing discarded, SIMPLE.Going asking 50 requests is

going to guarantee you get knowhere in medical circles...

So again go in keep it smootyh and simple and do it regularly and

try and isolate from the high up region what is coming down (in the

not too distant future).Basically a sinus swab may shine some light

of what is coming down.You may do this straight after you get your

first reports back, just basically keep it a work in progress and

accumulate, accumulate, accumulate, info.

The fact that your stepping onto the road finally, as oppoed to

being kept on the curve is a solid first step IMO

--- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

>

> In a message dated 8/11/05 11:07:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> pennyhoule@y... writes:

>

> You should just ask the lab to grow ANYTHING they can,

> including " normal flora " like staph and strep and pseudomonas and

> ask them to test for antibiotic sensitivities. At least that's a

> start to help you determine which abx to use, and to find out

which

> organisms you're dealing with besides actino (if you do have it).

>

>

> The labs here in Canada where the tests are covered by OHIP, are

so limited.

> I find private labs do a much better job. So should my doc just

write on the

> requisition form: test for antibiotic sensitivities and and

check for

> staph, strep and pseudonmas? sorry for asking so many questions,

I just don't

> have a reliable doctor and the labs suck.

> lynn

[Guest guest]

Lynn

That sounds great. Just remember the way you work your doctor is

also the linch pin. Basically go in keep it sweet and short and make

it pleasant for him to keep the lab busy.He ain't going to say no if

you say to him frequently a person will find pseudonomads in sinuses

on follow up- which isn't a good thing to have. So your using a

little psychology to keep him from being the guy making the

decisions after thinking about them himself- which never happens- to

the curious doc.

--- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

>

> In a message dated 8/11/05 11:58:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> dumbaussie2000@y... writes:

>

> should do a sinus swab

>

>

> I think It's a sinus swab/and sputum mixedbecause it's pouring

out both

> ways in brown, through the nose and down the throat from up in

the forehead,

> etc.Then crystalls arise.

> thanx

> Lynn