Re: Pennyhoule, need your help about actinomy...

[Guest guest]

thanks for your response

My Major Major dilemma is this: My face is evenly swollen after ten years like a balloon, I have no good docs that even give a damn or trust me.

The area where I got my WS extracted was a year ago and it's clean now.I have no obvious current pus on the outside. So I need internal work done in order to see what is happening. Somehitng is happening in order for my face to swell this much on the outside , so the inside must be investigated for me! PROBLEM, who will????

thanks

Lynn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/10/05 2:38:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dumbaussie2000@... writes:

area 'even around the wisdom site to get an idea of what's there'--You basically want to know if you have staph areus or heavy growths of any staphs.Pseudonomads also springs to mind. What generally can happen is that you get a strong bacteria that kills of all

The site around the WS is clean and healed. Soo I might have to get my upper ones out and cultured?? I'm in Canada, soo little good docs! Or what about checking my removed ones out, the ones with the strange color? All I know is i need Help ASAP. But who will help? Is it possible to have pus deeper inside rather than on the surface? I get the feeling of buring acid or something dripping down my cheeks and jaw. I have two lumps on my chin near the surface that I can feel with my hands, Myabe they're dry sulfur that didn't break through the skin? Maybe this can be helpful? Problem, no significant pus at this point on the outside. Had some in January on the upper gums but none now..So how can i get help?

thanks

Lynn

[Guest guest]

lynn I sent a email to your personal mail, ihave the

exact same thing you have, after you read it mail me

back at my own mail box. Jimd85379@...

--- bunnylyz@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 8/10/05 2:38:47 AM Eastern

> Daylight Time,

> dumbaussie2000@... writes:

>

> area 'even around the wisdom site to get an idea of

> what's there'--

> You basically want to know if you have staph areus

> or heavy growths

> of any staphs.Pseudonomads also springs to mind.

> What generally can

> happen is that you get a strong bacteria that kills

> of all

>

>

> The site around the WS is clean and healed. Soo I

> might have to get my upper

> ones out and cultured?? I'm in Canada, soo little

> good docs! Or what about

> checking my removed ones out, the ones with the

> strange color? All I know is i

> need Help ASAP. But who will help? Is it possible to

> have pus deeper inside

> rather than on the surface? I get the feeling of

> buring acid or something

> dripping down my cheeks and jaw. I have two lumps on

> my chin near the surface

> that I can feel with my hands, Myabe they're dry

> sulfur that didn't break

> through the skin? Maybe this can be helpful?

> Problem, no significant pus at this

> point on the outside. Had some in January on the

> upper gums but none now..So

> how can i get help?

> thanks

> Lynn

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Lynn, most people don't have visible or obvious pus. I had no clue I had a

problem with my teeth, until an endontist friend probed around my wisdom teeth

for me (second opinion on having them

removed) and he was describing what he saw around each tooth to his attendant.

He got to my wisdom teeth and yelled PUS! I'd never had a clue. He said I should

have them removed based on that alone.

Unfortunately, having them removed made me incredibly sick, because the oral

surgeon didn't give me any antibiotics and the infection spread to neighboring

bone. I also had several dry sockets which

were incredibly painful, probably due to a clotting disorder I was completely

unaware of.

It's a hard call, but I'm not sure you'd want to remove any more teeth right

now, until you've got a doctor willing to give you good treatment. Someone

who'll culture the tooth, give you high dose

and long term antibiotics, to prevent this infection from spreading further. On

the other hand, if you could find someone to do this for you, there's a good

chance that swelling you're experiencing

might be relieved. It's very risky. I've known many people who've had their

teeth removed, and haven't gotten better. Often, like you, they feel better for

a period of time, up to 6 months, but then

they relapse and are worse than before. This is why you need some really good

follow up antibiotic treatment. And I bet you need blood thinners too. Warfarin

after surgery. There's a Dr. McMahon,

who has done research with both Bouquot and Gleuck who does kind of understand

this whole thing. I'm not sure how good his surgical skills are, or if he does

surgery, but he totally understands the

hypercoagulation issues and the need for abx. Perhaps he could consult with a

doctor you find locally? I'd start by talking to these guys, who've conducted

dozens of studies. They're all very

friendly and helpful, and could probably provide you with contact info on the

others. I know you can find Gleuck at Jewish Hospital in Cincinatti, where he's

the director. Here's a study that the 3

of them worked on together. You should be able to track them down from here.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=8\

734702 & dopt=Abstract

penny

>

> In a message dated 8/10/05 2:38:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> dumbaussie2000@y... writes:

>

> area 'even around the wisdom site to get an idea of what's there'--

> You basically want to know if you have staph areus or heavy growths

> of any staphs.Pseudonomads also springs to mind. What generally can

> happen is that you get a strong bacteria that kills of all

>

>

> The site around the WS is clean and healed. Soo I might have to get my upper

> ones out and cultured?? I'm in Canada, soo little good docs! Or what about

> checking my removed ones out, the ones with the strange color? All I know is i

> need Help ASAP. But who will help? Is it possible to have pus deeper inside

> rather than on the surface? I get the feeling of buring acid or something

> dripping down my cheeks and jaw. I have two lumps on my chin near the surface

> that I can feel with my hands, Myabe they're dry sulfur that didn't break

> through the skin? Maybe this can be helpful? Problem, no significant pus at

this

> point on the outside. Had some in January on the upper gums but none now..So

> how can i get help?

> thanks

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

P.S. If you go to the link I posted above (Pub Med) and click on each of these

doc's names (Gleuck, Bouquot, and McMahon) you'll see how many studies they've

done on these issues. These are very

knowledgeable doctors, and I'm sure if you explain what's going on with you,

they'll have some recommendations.

Here's the link again. Just click on the doc's names at the top, to see lots of

other research they've done.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgicmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=8\\

734702 & dopt=Abstract

Some of the symptoms you describe are unbelievable. For instance, the thing

that's going on with your veins. You can't let these docs keep ignoring you.

penny

[Guest guest]

Lynn

I investigate, believe me when you have something there in large

numbers it's inside and outside. I have this absolutely fail proof

swab of my left elbow, I know that after doing this procedure on

several occasions the usual culprits are oozing from the bone- yet

there's no sign of pus or anything.

I get an organism that would be absolutely critiscized as a non

pathogen(gaffkya) more of atransient- yet it's there 5 times in the

last 18 months.

Bacteria are strange creatures they compete for space like the japs

do on the subways(esp after a sarin attack). The organisms I would

expect to show profusely in your sample would also be the organisms

that are tough king of the hill types, producing enough toxins to

kill of all there competition and a healthy amount of your red

cells.And they slowly rot you thru old age.And they love when you

feed them hormones, they'll clench your jaw, and make you a grinder.

tony

--- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

>

> thanks for your response

> My Major Major dilemma is this: My face is evenly swollen after

ten years

> like a balloon, I have no good docs that even give a damn or trust

me.

> The area where I got my WS extracted was a year ago and it's clean

now.I

> have no obvious current pus on the outside. So I need internal

work done in

> order to see what is happening. Somehitng is happening in order

for my face to

> swell this much on the outside , so the inside must be

investigated for me!

> PROBLEM, who will????

> thanks

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

>

> >

> > In a message dated 8/10/05 2:38:47 AM Eastern

> > Daylight Time,

> > dumbaussie2000@y... writes:

> >

> > area 'even around the wisdom site to get an idea of

> > what's there'--

> > You basically want to know if you have staph areus

> > or heavy growths

> > of any staphs.Pseudonomads also springs to mind.

> > What generally can

> > happen is that you get a strong bacteria that kills

> > of all

> >

> >

> > The site around the WS is clean and healed. Soo I

> > might have to get my upper

> > ones out and cultured?? I'm in Canada, soo little

> > good docs! Or what about

> > checking my removed ones out, the ones with the

> > strange color? All I know is i

> > need Help ASAP. But who will help? Is it possible to

> > have pus deeper inside

> > rather than on the surface? I get the feeling of

> > buring acid or something

> > dripping down my cheeks and jaw. I have two lumps on

> > my chin near the surface

> > that I can feel with my hands, Myabe they're dry

> > sulfur that didn't break

> > through the skin? Maybe this can be helpful?

> > Problem, no significant pus at this

> > point on the outside. Had some in January on the

> > upper gums but none now..So

> > how can i get help?

> > thanks

> > Lynn

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Lynn'

That burning acid is bacterial toxins and the area would be highly

sterilized by those acids(toxins) and that is why you'll get the

culprits more often than not. The unfortunate thing is labs and

doctors do such a poor job whenever it comes to having to think,

they alway's want an easy day at the office.

>

> >

> > In a message dated 8/10/05 2:38:47 AM Eastern

> > Daylight Time,

> > dumbaussie2000@y... writes:

> >

> > area 'even around the wisdom site to get an idea of

> > what's there'--

> > You basically want to know if you have staph areus

> > or heavy growths

> > of any staphs.Pseudonomads also springs to mind.

> > What generally can

> > happen is that you get a strong bacteria that kills

> > of all

> >

> >

> > The site around the WS is clean and healed. Soo I

> > might have to get my upper

> > ones out and cultured?? I'm in Canada, soo little

> > good docs! Or what about

> > checking my removed ones out, the ones with the

> > strange color? All I know is i

> > need Help ASAP. But who will help? Is it possible to

> > have pus deeper inside

> > rather than on the surface? I get the feeling of

> > buring acid or something

> > dripping down my cheeks and jaw. I have two lumps on

> > my chin near the surface

> > that I can feel with my hands, Myabe they're dry

> > sulfur that didn't break

> > through the skin? Maybe this can be helpful?

> > Problem, no significant pus at this

> > point on the outside. Had some in January on the

> > upper gums but none now..So

> > how can i get help?

> > thanks

> > Lynn

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Jim

Sorry about that. I was replying to Lynn after reading parts of what

she was telling penny that caught my attention.

>

> >

> > In a message dated 8/10/05 2:38:47 AM Eastern

> > Daylight Time,

> > dumbaussie2000@y... writes:

> >

> > area 'even around the wisdom site to get an idea of

> > what's there'--

> > You basically want to know if you have staph areus

> > or heavy growths

> > of any staphs.Pseudonomads also springs to mind.

> > What generally can

> > happen is that you get a strong bacteria that kills

> > of all

> >

> >

> > The site around the WS is clean and healed. Soo I

> > might have to get my upper

> > ones out and cultured?? I'm in Canada, soo little

> > good docs! Or what about

> > checking my removed ones out, the ones with the

> > strange color? All I know is i

> > need Help ASAP. But who will help? Is it possible to

> > have pus deeper inside

> > rather than on the surface? I get the feeling of

> > buring acid or something

> > dripping down my cheeks and jaw. I have two lumps on

> > my chin near the surface

> > that I can feel with my hands, Myabe they're dry

> > sulfur that didn't break

> > through the skin? Maybe this can be helpful?

> > Problem, no significant pus at this

> > point on the outside. Had some in January on the

> > upper gums but none now..So

> > how can i get help?

> > thanks

> > Lynn

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Very true,

i find that the toxins in my face are just overwhelming sometimes!

Do you/ does anyone know of other jaw infections? Maybe It's not actino but another jaw infection.. What are the main infections that dentists can give us?There's no pus coming out currently so should I exclude actino and maybe consider a different jaw infection?

How can they differ from actino? Is the treatment the same?

thanks

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony, but how do I eradicate these suckers?

And how can I know for sure that I have actino? The characteristic thing is the pus pourring out...so I'm leaning towards a similar but different infection I guess. Do we treat all of them with penicillin G? If so , I'll start that for my lyme treatment. i've got my upper WS teeth still left to extract, maybe those will be cultured for bugs? But like u said, docs and labs are lazy and don't want to challenge anything .

thanks

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Tony, puhleee-eeze, I don't know how you do things in Australia, but

we don't need any racial slurs here, whether intentional or not.

sheesh, I sincerely think you say this stuff just to get a rise out of

people. (and please don't respond to this post because you usually

just dig yourself deeper).

I truly wish all these people could talk to you on the phone. Then

they'd realize that you aren't at all like you sound in print.

sheesh...again.

penny

[Guest guest]

Are all the bone infections bone eating? And are they all treated the same? Is staph less seriou than actino?

I just wanted to have an idea of what's out there, the symptoms, medication, that's all. i don't want any magic answers , just an idea of alternative Jaw Infections and their symptoms

thanks

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/10/05 9:20:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pennyhoule@... writes:

Lynne, somewhere you told me that you have that salty taste in your mouth. That IS a common sign of either staph or actino. But who knows, there are probably other bugs involved as well. Like Tony says, you've got to go after the most toxic, then be sure you don't let the other ones take over, once you knock the first bad one down.

Penny, how do I know which one's the most toxic?

Can I have one more word of advcie form you?

: I will get the cat scans done this month. What kind of specific Scans should I ask for? The jaw ans sinuses? Will the scans tell me if I have eroded bone or not? or will the swelling be even and they won't show the damage? Because I'm thinking that If I don't have any bone eaten away for instance , after a period of ten years of a jaw infcetion, that would narrow the search down for me.., Are there any bone infections that don't eat the bone? I have a suppressed immune system from my lyme and my dentist could have infected me with a simple infection that someone healthy can eradIcate, but for someone sick impossibel.

I find lyme gave it ideal conditions. I also find thta there's a direct link between exercise and the infection. Whenever i swam and worked out for several hours a day, after a while, my face was less swollen. Pehaps because I was eliminating toxins more effectively by sweating or perhaps, oxygen supplied to the infection did the joB. I found that once i overdid the exercise, I suppressed my immune system because I exercised like An athlete. then I stopped and the infection strengthened and my condition worsened. Since then, the past two years I have been non-functional. The WS extraction made my condition severe and I had the green veins, as if it entered my bloodstream. At the same time the extraction showed me that my swelling was from the toxins, as my face whent down like a balloon that popped. the toxins evacuated through the open holes. Once the holes closed, boom, sicker than ever and more swollen, suggesting that the extraction was a bad idea! So frankly I'm not sure If I have eaten bone or anyhitng, maybe just a very toxic infection , harmless normally, but my lyme makes it serious?

I will see soon. Let me know what scans, etc. That way I'll have an idea of the severity after 10 years! I still don't quite get what u and Jim mean by hitting the most toxic ones, aren't they all treated the same? And are there no tests for staph, etc? I found out about a doc near home, so I am crossing my fingers for hime. I will see him in the fall and meantime I want a list of things to ask him to test for.If my upper WS teeth were to be removed and immediately cultured for actino, staph, strep, could they be helpful . I don't want to remove them because i know I'll get sicker, but if they can prove that I have an infection there I will. my botom ones that were removed made my face small for 3 days, holes, closed. sick right away,I didn't have to wait six months, maybe six days.

thanks for your help, it's appreciated

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Where did you get the idea that pus is a hallmark of Actino???

Pus can come from any infection...or not. I've already said a couple

of times that staph aureus and strep and actino are common bone

bugs. There's also coag. neg staph and others. Perhaps even lyme

bugs are in the bone? But unfortunately, as far as I know, no one's

been able to test for that. What we do know is if you can get ANY

highly toxic bug cultured, and treat it appropriately to knock your

infection load down, even patients who are dx'd with lyme, feel a

lot better.

Lynn, nobody's going to give you a magic answer, and fix everything

(not yet anyway). So far, there's no such thing when fighting an

infection. Every person's different. You've got to do a lot of

homework if you want to beat this thing. You've got to be smart to

fight your infection. That's the cold truth.

penny

--- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

> Hi Tony, but how do I eradicate these suckers?

> And how can I know for sure that I have actino? The characteristic

thing is

> the pus pourring out...so I'm leaning towards a similar but

different

> infection I guess. Do we treat all of them with penicillin G? If

so , I'll start that

> for my lyme treatment. i've got my upper WS teeth still left to

extract,

> maybe those will be cultured for bugs? But like u said, docs and

labs are lazy

> and don't want to challenge anything .

> thanks

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

P.S.

Lynne, somewhere you told me that you have that salty taste in your

mouth. That IS a common sign of either staph or actino. But who

knows, there are probably other bugs involved as well. Like Tony

says, you've got to go after the most toxic, then be sure you don't

let the other ones take over, once you knock the first bad one down.

It's a tricky balancing act, and you can't let up.

penny

> > Hi Tony, but how do I eradicate these suckers?

> > And how can I know for sure that I have actino? The

characteristic

> thing is

> > the pus pourring out...so I'm leaning towards a similar but

> different

> > infection I guess. Do we treat all of them with penicillin G?

If

> so , I'll start that

> > for my lyme treatment. i've got my upper WS teeth still left to

> extract,

> > maybe those will be cultured for bugs? But like u said, docs

and

> labs are lazy

> > and don't want to challenge anything .

> > thanks

> > Lynn

[Guest guest]

It's which ones are most toxic for YOU. You can tell how toxic by

how agressive the growth is and how resistant they are to various

antibiotics (in the petri dish). Yes, there are easy tests for staph

and strep, pseudomonas etc. Actino's harder, and lyme, mycoplasma

etc. very difficult to test for. I know people that are dx'd with

all these organisms including lyme who have jaw infections, and they

get much better by treating the ones they can grow in the petri dish

and ignoring the ones that are hard to culture. But you have to

understand that even the best treatment is long term with ups and

downs, because you have to adapt your therapy as the bugs adapt.

We're dealing with very " smart " bugs. They don't go down easily.

Lynn, I really recommend you call those doctors I referred you to,

ask them for referrals, and don't rush into anything without fully

understanding it. You're wanting answers that took us years to even

begin to understand. All we can really do is try to keep you from

letting doctors make you sicker with inadequate treatment, which is

what happens more often than not.

Talk to these doctors about the best scans. It's complicated. I

don't think I'd get them until you've got some doctor on your side

who understands what's going on. If you do get them, you want very,

very thin slices of your jaw and sinuses in all directions

(especially emphasizing any areas that you feel are especially

problematic), and preferably someone who's got excellent 3-d imaging

software. For instance, some docs who do dental implants have this

very sophisticated 3-D imaging technology (but believe me, they

won't be sympathetic to jaw infections, since acknowledging them

hurts their business). Again, you need to talk to a lot of people to

try to find the best answers. You could just walk in off the street

and ask for a CT scan, but you may miss everything you need to see.

My friend's had dozens of scans before she hit on the right combo of

a great radiologist and a cancer specialist who could finally see

the fistulas, and had enough experience to recognize the signs of

actinomycosis, which only confirmed what she'd been told years

before, but everyone ignored her, because they couldn't reproduce

the actino in the lab.

And please remember, we're all sick here. Most of us don't have the

energy to answer all your questions. It helps if we see you're also

doing some homework, making those calls, so that we don't have to

start at ground zero with everything. We're trying to figure out how

to get ourselves well, too. Please try to remember that?

Penny

> Penny, how do I know which one's the most toxic?

> Can I have one more word of advcie form you?

> : I will get the cat scans done this month. What kind of specific

Scans

> should I ask for? The jaw ans sinuses? Will the scans tell me if I

have eroded

> bone or not? or will the swelling be even and they won't show the

damage?

> Because I'm thinking that If I don't have any bone eaten away for

instance , after

> a period of ten years of a jaw infcetion, that would narrow the

search down

> for me.., Are there any bone infections that don't eat the bone?

I have a

> suppressed immune system from my lyme and my dentist could have

infected me

> with a simple infection that someone healthy can eradIcate, but

for someone sick

> impossibel.

> I find lyme gave it ideal conditions. I also find thta there's a

direct link

> between exercise and the infection. Whenever i swam and worked out

for

> several hours a day, after a while, my face was less swollen.

Pehaps because I was

> eliminating toxins more effectively by sweating or perhaps, oxygen

supplied

> to the infection did the joB. I found that once i overdid the

exercise, I

> suppressed my immune system because I exercised like An athlete.

then I stopped

> and the infection strengthened and my condition worsened. Since

then, the past

> two years I have been non-functional. The WS extraction made my

condition

> severe and I had the green veins, as if it entered my

bloodstream. At the same

> time the extraction showed me that my swelling was from the

toxins, as my

> face whent down like a balloon that popped. the toxins evacuated

through the

> open holes. Once the holes closed, boom, sicker than ever and

more swollen,

> suggesting that the extraction was a bad idea! So frankly I'm

not sure If I have

> eaten bone or anyhitng, maybe just a very toxic infection ,

harmless

> normally, but my lyme makes it serious?

> I will see soon. Let me know what scans, etc. That way I'll have

an idea of

> the severity after 10 years! I still don't quite get what u and

Jim mean by

> hitting the most toxic ones, aren't they all treated the same? And

are there no

> tests for staph, etc? I found out about a doc near home, so I am

crossing my

> fingers for hime. I will see him in the fall and meantime I want

a list of

> things to ask him to test for.If my upper WS teeth were to be

removed and

> immediately cultured for actino, staph, strep, could they be

helpful . I don't

> want to remove them because i know I'll get sicker, but if they

can prove that

> I have an infection there I will. my botom ones that were removed

made my

> face small for 3 days, holes, closed. sick right away,I didn't

have to wait six

> months, maybe six days.

> thanks for your help, it's appreciated

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Aussie,

yeah there was a clear link between the exercise and my health! This was always a topic of interest for me. what do you think about the hyperbaric oxygen therapy? Maybe we can erdicate these anaerobic infections by moderate exercise , swimming is good for supplying lot's of 02 to the bod.

I still don't understand how you managed to culture all this bacteria. Here in Canada, I don't even believe that tests for such rare jaw infections are available.

Perhaps my best bet would be to just to start penicillin G in a few weeks? What do I have to lose? I can most likely get on it for my lyme and If it doesn't help the jaw issue, then hey what will.!I have been on oral penicillin 2 months, amoxicillin 3 months, clindamycin 2 months, biaxin and flagyl 9 months,

ketek and flagyl 4 months, and now started zithro and rifampin. I have pretty much tried everything out there!! Don't all these jaw infections respond generally to the same thing?

You kinda freaked me out with the whole toxin thing, very true. If it burns, then it must cause damage. Is there a way to know the severity? Ok, so I've got a cat scan on my list, maybe slowly start exercising, oxygen therapy, and then penicillin G.

thanks for your helpful response

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Lynn

I love penicillin because it distributes better than most drugs and

even though lab tests say it's resistant it still is effcetive in

the high dosing area.Many drugs can become very useless when dealing

with any infection yet if penicillin wasn't the wonder drug it's

been touted as it would also fall away, but it's success has me

believing that it's capable of doing a good job otherwise the world

would be full of sick people.I was stuck myself in using drugs that

show reasonably well in testing like augmentin, yet I just think

it's molecules are too large with the additives, and it can't

distribute and can never really do a complete fix. I find it just

helps. We need penicllin supported with other drugs vanco would be

a good place to start.Vanco is OK because it's tough anbd goes

further thru rot than penicillin. The only problem vanco has again

is it's not as widely distributed thru the body and tissues.It also

seems to show a good week then it also becomes useless, unless your

lucky with your p[athogens and what they show.

Lynn with chasing the actino most labs can't and don't so you just

want to start understanding what you have there and start getting a

few bacterial reports happening at any cost.The actino diagnosis is

a hard one and the co infections are possably every bit as damaging

and the staphs are more likely to have created the worm hoiling as

opposed to the actino that's being touted as doing it. That burning

slime going down your face and throat is the worm holing, bone

destroying toxin, if you culture the area it may show one or two

species capable of producing that toxin therefore they are not

killed off because there the guys making the toxin.

Again I'm waffling but you need to narrow things down and every time

you do a culture and get the report it all adds up for you.

Actually next time you do a full blood count the toxins may destroy

possably upto a quarter or even a third of your red blood cells, if

your feeling unwell (all over body).Just something to look out for-

HGB range 12 to 16 you may be sitting on the 12 instead of a healthy

14.

--- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

> Hi Tony, but how do I eradicate these suckers?

> And how can I know for sure that I have actino? The characteristic

thing is

> the pus pourring out...so I'm leaning towards a similar but

different

> infection I guess. Do we treat all of them with penicillin G? If

so , I'll start that

> for my lyme treatment. i've got my upper WS teeth still left to

extract,

> maybe those will be cultured for bugs? But like u said, docs and

labs are lazy

> and don't want to challenge anything .

> thanks

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

Lynn

That toxin that you describe as burning like acid I am very familiar

with this, and it comes off my coagulase negative staphylococcus. I

can observe it's there because it produces a zone in an agar plate

that is called 'beta haemolysis'. Regular folk don't have this toxin

coming out of there coagulase negative staphs. This burns like crazy

and it hurts like the worst of the worst aches.I would actually go to

my doctors visits and say it feels like I have battery acid running

thru my veins.

> Are all the bone infections bone eating? And are they all treated

the same?

> Is staph less seriou than actino?

> I just wanted to have an idea of what's out there, the symptoms,

medication,

> that's all. i don't want any magic answers , just an idea of

alternative Jaw

> Infections and their symptoms

> thanks

[Guest guest]

Lynn

You made some wonderfull points. Your infection needs a certain

amount of CO2 to become fulminating and once you get well oxygenated

by exercising and keeping the lungs expelling the CO2 you feel much

better and even the healing process shows positive.

--- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

>

> In a message dated 8/10/05 9:20:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> pennyhoule@y... writes:

>

>

> Lynne, somewhere you told me that you have that salty taste in

your

> mouth. That IS a common sign of either staph or actino. But who

> knows, there are probably other bugs involved as well. Like Tony

> says, you've got to go after the most toxic, then be sure you

don't

> let the other ones take over, once you knock the first bad one

down.

>

>

>

>

> Penny, how do I know which one's the most toxic?

> Can I have one more word of advcie form you?

> : I will get the cat scans done this month. What kind of specific

Scans

> should I ask for? The jaw ans sinuses? Will the scans tell me if I

have eroded

> bone or not? or will the swelling be even and they won't show the

damage?

> Because I'm thinking that If I don't have any bone eaten away for

instance , after

> a period of ten years of a jaw infcetion, that would narrow the

search down

> for me.., Are there any bone infections that don't eat the bone?

I have a

> suppressed immune system from my lyme and my dentist could have

infected me

> with a simple infection that someone healthy can eradIcate, but

for someone sick

> impossibel.

> I find lyme gave it ideal conditions. I also find thta there's a

direct link

> between exercise and the infection. Whenever i swam and worked out

for

> several hours a day, after a while, my face was less swollen.

Pehaps because I was

> eliminating toxins more effectively by sweating or perhaps, oxygen

supplied

> to the infection did the joB. I found that once i overdid the

exercise, I

> suppressed my immune system because I exercised like An athlete.

then I stopped

> and the infection strengthened and my condition worsened. Since

then, the past

> two years I have been non-functional. The WS extraction made my

condition

> severe and I had the green veins, as if it entered my

bloodstream. At the same

> time the extraction showed me that my swelling was from the

toxins, as my

> face whent down like a balloon that popped. the toxins evacuated

through the

> open holes. Once the holes closed, boom, sicker than ever and

more swollen,

> suggesting that the extraction was a bad idea! So frankly I'm

not sure If I have

> eaten bone or anyhitng, maybe just a very toxic infection ,

harmless

> normally, but my lyme makes it serious?

> I will see soon. Let me know what scans, etc. That way I'll have

an idea of

> the severity after 10 years! I still don't quite get what u and

Jim mean by

> hitting the most toxic ones, aren't they all treated the same? And

are there no

> tests for staph, etc? I found out about a doc near home, so I am

crossing my

> fingers for hime. I will see him in the fall and meantime I want

a list of

> things to ask him to test for.If my upper WS teeth were to be

removed and

> immediately cultured for actino, staph, strep, could they be

helpful . I don't

> want to remove them because i know I'll get sicker, but if they

can prove that

> I have an infection there I will. my botom ones that were removed

made my

> face small for 3 days, holes, closed. sick right away,I didn't

have to wait six

> months, maybe six days.

> thanks for your help, it's appreciated

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

What is the zone? IE does it destroy red blood cells?

I'm on the wrong computer at the moment but tomorrow will post a

site that has a few videos (darkfield) of spirochetes and granules

and the granules are hopping around.

Tony, your observatoins about coag neg staph and the toxin are in

line with Ritchie Shoemaker's work and he also spculates that the

toxins that borrelia and babesia make actually stop the immune

system from clearing them.

It turns out the toxin that babesia makes is probably vaguely

related to ciguera toxin, I think, I'm saying this because babesia

and malaria and other parasites turn out to be apicoplasts. They

have remnants of cyanobacteria (original photosynthesizing bacteria)

and an algae--like dinoflagellates--and actually, like chloroplasts

in plants! But anyway since dinoflagellates can produce toxins

probably babesia and malaria do too?

I have started reading on this and it is fascinating as I posted but

nobody here seems to notice. Seems key to me.

So...nobody though about this when developing abx--about disabling

the toxins.

When you say you love penicillin, all forms?

> Lynn

> That toxin that you describe as burning like acid I am very

familiar

> with this, and it comes off my coagulase negative staphylococcus.

I

> can observe it's there because it produces a zone in an agar plate

> that is called 'beta haemolysis'. Regular folk don't have this

toxin

> coming out of there coagulase negative staphs. This burns like

crazy

> and it hurts like the worst of the worst aches.I would actually go

to

> my doctors visits and say it feels like I have battery acid

running

> thru my veins.

>

>

>

> --- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

> > Are all the bone infections bone eating? And are they all

treated

> the same?

> > Is staph less seriou than actino?

> > I just wanted to have an idea of what's out there, the

symptoms,

> medication,

> > that's all. i don't want any magic answers , just an idea of

> alternative Jaw

> > Infections and their symptoms

> > thanks

[Guest guest]

Lynn

Hyperbarics is very limited and you need to concentrate all your

energies on expelling your CO2 constantly.No CO2. normally means no

battery acid toxin.Unfortunately bacteria are pretty harty and can

use quorum sensing to start pumping toxins in synch, they can also

create there own CO2 in the centre of there cell and use this to

self fuel.Understanding the enemy is the best way to use the best

strategies to beat them in combat.

--- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

> Hi Aussie,

> yeah there was a clear link between the exercise and my health!

This was

> always a topic of interest for me. what do you think about the

hyperbaric oxygen

> therapy? Maybe we can erdicate these anaerobic infections by

moderate

> exercise , swimming is good for supplying lot's of 02 to the bod.

> I still don't understand how you managed to culture all this

bacteria. Here

> in Canada, I don't even believe that tests for such rare jaw

infections are

> available.

> Perhaps my best bet would be to just to start penicillin G in a

few weeks?

> What do I have to lose? I can most likely get on it for my lyme

and If it

> doesn't help the jaw issue, then hey what will.!I have been on

oral penicillin 2

> months, amoxicillin 3 months, clindamycin 2 months, biaxin and

flagyl 9

> months,

> ketek and flagyl 4 months, and now started zithro and rifampin. I

have

> pretty much tried everything out there!! Don't all these jaw

infections respond

> generally to the same thing?

> You kinda freaked me out with the whole toxin thing, very true. If

it burns,

> then it must cause damage. Is there a way to know the severity?

Ok, so I've

> got a cat scan on my list, maybe slowly start exercising, oxygen

therapy, and

> then penicillin G.

> thanks for your helpful response

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

Lynn

Definately start the Pen G the only problem pay attention to dosing.

Qite often they'll push the bottom end of the scale a couple of

grams a day as opposed to the 12 (10milliom units approx)grams a

serious infection attempt looks like.In hospital under supervision

they pump the mega grams so do pay attention to why you may only

feel good for an hour then relaps even during therapy. Basically you

were underdone.

--- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

> Hi Aussie,

> yeah there was a clear link between the exercise and my health!

This was

> always a topic of interest for me. what do you think about the

hyperbaric oxygen

> therapy? Maybe we can erdicate these anaerobic infections by

moderate

> exercise , swimming is good for supplying lot's of 02 to the bod.

> I still don't understand how you managed to culture all this

bacteria. Here

> in Canada, I don't even believe that tests for such rare jaw

infections are

> available.

> Perhaps my best bet would be to just to start penicillin G in a

few weeks?

> What do I have to lose? I can most likely get on it for my lyme

and If it

> doesn't help the jaw issue, then hey what will.!I have been on

oral penicillin 2

> months, amoxicillin 3 months, clindamycin 2 months, biaxin and

flagyl 9

> months,

> ketek and flagyl 4 months, and now started zithro and rifampin. I

have

> pretty much tried everything out there!! Don't all these jaw

infections respond

> generally to the same thing?

> You kinda freaked me out with the whole toxin thing, very true. If

it burns,

> then it must cause damage. Is there a way to know the severity?

Ok, so I've

> got a cat scan on my list, maybe slowly start exercising, oxygen

therapy, and

> then penicillin G.

> thanks for your helpful response

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

I am big on testing and all those drugs can become absolutely

useless or even stimulate a bigger infection than you started out

with.Also doctors are imbeciles because they believe the literature

instead of there own eyes when it comes to treating infections.The

literature is derived from a 20 year old healthy university student

looking for some extra cash that may have gotten an infection

yesterday and have it treated tomorrow.

You are the abused patient that's been sold wonderfull crap in a

nice box and when push comes to shove there pathetic attempt at

therapy failed, which in most doctors eyes is 100% of the time

before you even start they know how useless what they are doing is

going to be.The only problem the money end of the game is designed

towards managemnent not cure which is another thing we are saddled

with.

tony

--- In infections , bunnylyz@a...

wrote:

> Hi Aussie,

> yeah there was a clear link between the exercise and my health!

This was

> always a topic of interest for me. what do you think about the

hyperbaric oxygen

> therapy? Maybe we can erdicate these anaerobic infections by

moderate

> exercise , swimming is good for supplying lot's of 02 to the bod.

> I still don't understand how you managed to culture all this

bacteria. Here

> in Canada, I don't even believe that tests for such rare jaw

infections are

> available.

> Perhaps my best bet would be to just to start penicillin G in a

few weeks?

> What do I have to lose? I can most likely get on it for my lyme

and If it

> doesn't help the jaw issue, then hey what will.!I have been on

oral penicillin 2

> months, amoxicillin 3 months, clindamycin 2 months, biaxin and

flagyl 9

> months,

> ketek and flagyl 4 months, and now started zithro and rifampin. I

have

> pretty much tried everything out there!! Don't all these jaw

infections respond

> generally to the same thing?

> You kinda freaked me out with the whole toxin thing, very true. If

it burns,

> then it must cause damage. Is there a way to know the severity?

Ok, so I've

> got a cat scan on my list, maybe slowly start exercising, oxygen

therapy, and

> then penicillin G.

> thanks for your helpful response

> Lynn