Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Years ago, mogul skiiers used to run with combat boots on railroad ties. It would seem, the results sought by doing excersises on surfaces requiring balance would be insignificant compared to running on railroad ties. Carson Wood. Westbrook, ME USA. ------- > Group... > > While there is a time and a place for a swiss ball, bosu ball, or dyna > disc, I think most of the CORE or FUNCTIONAL training is hype, and > marketing. Look through a Perform Better Catalog... I mean really look > through one, and ask yourself how many of the " functional training " > implements are necessary. The industry is saturated with this 'junk'. > There is a small review article in the newest issue of NSCA's S & CJ on page > 50, " Getting to the Core of the Matter " that really make you think about > what you are designing. > > How is it " functional " to stand on a giant ball and do a DB press? > Functional exercises and activities are going to have transference to a > sport or activity. > > Unless there is a new Swiss Ball sport I am unaware of, I would stick to > grabbing a DB and walking away from the swiss ball as well. > > Wood, M.Ed., CSCS > Philadelphia, USA > > Holder wrote: > , > > <<<Let me start by saying my main focus of fitness right now is in > longevity. I want to train my body for the long run. I am in my 30's and > no longer yearn for the heavy weights. I surpassed all my goals for > strength in my 20's. Endurance is mainly how I train, like a circuit I > move from one exercise to the next, to the next and so on. Most of these > exercises are performed with the disc pillow, bosu, or swiss ball. > > I have found it to be advantageous in many ways. Just in strengthening > the connective tissues alone has been huge. I am a multisport athlete and > used to suffer from sprained ankles frequently. With the addition of the > bosu and swiss ball I have eliminated that injury. > > Is it not common knowledge that going from a stable surface to an > unstable surface is a step up in difficulty? Well that is what I am > doing, challenging my body, making it work on things it has never > encountered. I am becoming a leaner, stronger, and more injury free. > > I am really surprised to see all the comments about standing on the ball. > I used to be a personal trainer and we have practiced many of these > techniques for years now.>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Hi , If one is training for longevity, variety is key. Balance training, or training on a Swiss ball in the manner you have mentioned specifically trains what is called the " tilting Reflex " (Chek, 1996). This is useful for sports such as skiing, surfing and skateboarding. This enables the body to balance itself in an unstable or changing environment. I have had particular success using Swiss balls with the elderly as they tend to lose their tilting reflexes with age. Furthermore they tend to enjoy the novelty which is also a valuable component (one which the marketing departments have surely capitalized on!). This is good but it should be noted that this is only one aspect of training. For longevity, I would also consider squatting as axial loading has been shown in numerous studies to offset symptoms of osteoporosis. Progressing an exercise to an unstable environment is only one way of progressing. Others are increasing tempo, decreasing rest, increasing resistance and increasing volume. All of these acute exercise variables could result in positive changes to your routine respective of your goals. I know Chek has his detractors (especially on this website) but he has spoken many times about how the Swiss ball has been way over- hyped in the gym. Like anything else, it is another tool that should be used judiciously. Using a Swiss ball is not always a progression. The other posters in this group I think have illustrated this point well. Making an exercise more difficult by reducing base of support doesn't necessarily improve the quality of the exercise. For instance, doing a hang snatch on a Swiss ball would not make the exercise anymore effective given the reason most athletes use that particular exercise. Cowell Raleigh, NC Begin forwarded message: > > Date: May 18, 2006 12:30:04 PM EDT > To: Supertraining > Subject: SPAM: Re: " Core " Training > Reply-To: Supertraining > > , > > Let me start by saying my main focus of fitness right now is in > longevity. I want to train my body for the long run. I am in my > 30's and no longer yearn for the heavy weights. I surpassed all my > goals for strength in my 20's. Endurance is mainly how I train, > like a circuit I move from one exercise to the next, to the next > and so on. Most of these exercises are performed with the disc > pillow, bosu, or swiss ball. > > I have found it to be advantageous in many ways. Just in > strengthening the connective tissues alone has been huge. I am a > multisport athlete and used to suffer from sprained ankles > frequently. With the addition of the bosu and swiss ball I have > eliminated that injury. > > Is it not common knowledge that going from a stable surface to an > unstable surface is a step up in difficulty? Well that is what I > am doing, challenging my body, making it work on things it has > never encountered. I am becoming a leaner, stronger, and more > injury free. > > I am really surprised to see all the comments about standing on > the ball. I used to be a personal trainer and we have practiced > many of these techniques for years now. > > Holder > Chicago > Illinois > > ----- > Cowell wrote: > Hi , > What are your goals and how is standing on a Swiss ball > advantageous? Knowing the answers to these questions will help those > of us on the list further help you. > > Cowell, CSCS, CHEK III, USAW > Raleigh, NC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 I could be mistaken, but I haven't really seen anyone mention benches or shrugs. I live in this " everyday Joe " world that is referenced. I like it. When I go to get off my couch or toilet, I stand up. Kind of reminds me of a box squat? I know one thing, the couch and toilet aren't unstable and wobbling around when I go to get up. When i need to get my sled out of the trunk of my car, I lean forward and grab it. Reminds me of a good morning ? When I pick up a big container of water to put in the polands spring dispencer, I bend over and pick it up. Reminds me of a deadlift / clean motion. I just put some clothes up in the attic for storage. They were in big plastic bins. Reminded me of an overhead pressing motion ? During all these everyday Joe activities the ground has never once moved on me. Well, it did once when i was trying to put a grill in the back of a pickup (deadlift) after a Toby concert, but I think the all day beers had something to do with that? Now that I think about it, maybe drunk lifting is actually more functional than any stability ball, bosu, or wobble board? This could be true since i am more likely to be hammered than actually have the ground beneath me start wobbling? Hmmm, there may be a best seller in my future? Nobody steal my idea. Off to the fridge to do some research - O'Neill MS, CSCS Abington, MA > > So I guess everyone who hits the gym is what, training for a bench press competition, or maybe a shrug competition. I don't know how functional training is hype. In the world of the everyday Joe there are movements that are not rigid like many old school exercises. Sports are mainly the area where functional training comes into play. Stable surface exercises are the exercises for developing power and strength. I don't see how these stable surface exercises are continually advantageous for any other than competition athletes. I know that the intermediate routine that I currently use would be impossible for over 90% of the trainers I have seen to date. > > If you look at how the elite athletes are being trained you would see that the swiss ball, bosu and disc pillow play an important role in developing strength but more importantly in preventing injury. > > Holder > Chicago > Illinois Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 - What are you trying to accomplish with all of this? It sounds like you have the stabilization thing figured out, but it doesn't sound like you are doing much with moving your core. " Most difficult " does not directly translate into " most effective " , let alone " most intelligent " unless it is addressing specific performance problems and/or goals. I am also curious to know what you are doing to dissapate and/or compensate for the high levels of abdominal tension you are generating. If nothing, why not? kson, CST Minneapolis, MN USA www.clubbelltrainer.com " Core " Training I have been using the swiss ball for about the last 6 months and am to the point I can stand on it and perform exercises such as upright rows, curls, lateral raises one arm or both, and bodyweight squats. I have been kneeling on the ball to do other exercises where I do not have something stable to assist me in getting on the ball. I am trying to form the most difficult core regimine possible and seem to have hit the wall. Any suggestions??? Also any suggestions about getting on the ball with no assistance. Any help would be welcomed. I am past the point of copying exercises as I don't see anyone concentrating on the core area and the ones that do are just starting. ----------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 I laughed reading your reply here, but I like the way you put the movements into everyday situations. Great job, has me reviewing everything I do now and thinking what exercise it may resemble. Thanks Bill Hawkins Chardon, Ohio mroneill44 wrote: <<<I could be mistaken, but I haven't really seen anyone mention benches or shrugs. I live in this " everyday Joe " world that is referenced. I like it. When I go to get off my couch or toilet, I stand up. Kind of reminds me of a box squat? I know one thing, the couch and toilet aren't unstable and wobbling around when I go to get up. When i need to get my sled out of the trunk of my car, I lean forward and grab it. Reminds me of a good morning ? When I pick up a big container of water to put in the polands spring dispencer, I bend over and pick it up. Reminds me of a deadlift / clean motion. I just put some clothes up in the attic for storage. They were in big plastic bins. Reminded me of an overhead pressing motion ? During all these everyday Joe activities the ground has never once moved on me. Well, it did once when i was trying to put a grill in the back of a pickup (deadlift) after a Toby concert, but I think the all day beers had something to do with that? Now that I think about it, maybe drunk lifting is actually more functional than any stability ball, bosu, or wobble board? This could be true since i am more likely to be hammered than actually have the ground beneath me start wobbling? Hmmm, there may be a best seller in my future? Nobody steal my idea. Off to the fridge to do some research ->>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Following the strings on Core Training has convinced me that everyone has their own beliefs. A novice in this area and a person who is looking to develop a training schedule for his two daughters to strengthen their core the discussion was not very helpful. Does anyone follow a basic core training program that develops a person core area and help with developing a quick first step? Milford MA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 > > if you train on an inherently unstable surface you learn to > reduce force in order to maintain balance. > Physical therapists in Rio de Janeiro do lots supplementary workouts using these training aids while recovering injured athletes, or post surgery, specially for knee and ankle, here we call " Propioceptive training devices " . BUT they re not intended to exclude the main workouts. Soon athletes are back to the gym doing very heavy squats to continue the rehab process. These training aids are intended to create situations of sudden instabillity as they may be encountered at different surfaces or situations during competitions, and teach the muscle's propioceptors to react fast, before the muscle is over stretched and pulled. Some are very spedific. The physical therapist must know the athlete, the sport or may be work together with te coach to understand what happens with the athlete during competition, so a individualized propioceptive workout can be developed. Denilson Costa Rio de Janeiro - Brasil physical education - UNESA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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