Re: Football Combines Mystery

March 31, 2006

In a message dated 3/31/2006 12:00:06 PM Central Standard Time,

thephantom198@... writes:

<<They also tell me of shuttle runs for agility testing and timed sprints to

measure speed, which make far more sense from an operating standpoint for

football.>>

**I had an agent tell me that if I had a player who could backpedal for ten

yards and then cut right or left for twenty in the time it would take to run a

straight ahead forty, he might start to get interested.

I'm hearing that the ten yard sprint is starting to gain more attention.

Kindest regards,

Ken Jakalski

Lisle HS

Lisle, IL

March 31, 2006

,

Your question is a valid one, so let me give some insight on what

the scouts, coaches, C.S.C.S.'s, A.T.C.'s are generally looking for.

In regards to the bench press:

The bench press is done for max reps at 225 simply because

performing a 1 rep or 3 rep max is not what takes place in football,

you don't engage contact with a guy 1 ol 2 or 3 times....it is done

throughout a 60 minute game. Second, low reps for maximal weight

increases the odds of injury to a player, and they guys that go

through the combine are all being prodded, pulled, twisted, yanked,

stretched, every way possible. It is known as the meat machine. If

a guy has an injury, either past or present, acute or

chronic....those that do the testing will find it in a player.

As far as thinking that changes in the NFL combine are coming

anytime soon......well I wouldn't hold your breath. I agree as many

in the field do, that the bench press 225 for maximal reps is the

LEAST important of all the tests given, it DOES show a general

level of upper body strength, overall.

The real tests that place a guy in the 5.0 -5.5 or above grading

system for which scouts use to determine a players potential for

making it in the NFL is the Vertical jump, Shuttle run, and of

course the infamous 40 yrd. dash. Along with that goes other factors

too, but for this discussion I will hold it at that.

Do not think for a moment that the NFL isn't the good ole' boy

network. It has been for years, and probably will be for several

more to come. I personally don't see them getting rid of the bench

press for their testing. Just my opinion, although I do also agree

with yours as well.

Also, just out of curiosity , do you know of a gentleman by the

name of Dick , a former 5 time U.S. Olympic weightlifting

coach. Just curious.

Yours in health,

Forbes

OrthoPro@...

Tualatin, OR

mart.

>

> I've been talking with a number of young men who are prepping for

the college coaching combines and they tell me they are required to

do a maximum repetition bench press with 225 pounds as one of the

items on their list. Apparently they are not generally concerned

with the form it's performed with, merely the number of reps

performed. Thus the candidates usually are desperate to increase

this number by any means possible, usually when discovering they

cannot do the desired number of reps for a higher placement.

>

> They also tell me of shuttle runs for agility testing and timed

sprints to measure speed, which make far more sense from an

operating standpoint for football.

>

> It strikes me as quite odd though that this requirement of a 225

pounds for maximum reps still persists as a coaching combine

standard by which players are judged? When you examine the

requirement, it has little to do with football. It doesn't really

measure strength, but chest endurance in larger people... the

linemen they are up against are now far larger than 225 pounds? And

it's not a logical thing to ask of say, a wide receiver?

>

> For those players whose bread and butter is speed and hand skills,

a 225 for reps bench press is meaningless. For those whose bread

and butter is speed off the line in a more deadlift or tire flipping

position, such light repetitions in a bench press for high numbers

is not meaningful either. Some people who are quite well built for

football also are NOT built to bench press effectively either... for

example your taller tight ends, with longish arms and thus less

effective leverages for the bench press?

>

> Is there any discussion among the coaching combines and NFL scouts

to make a different standard or remove this somewhat strange combine

measure?

>

> The Phantom

> aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

> Denver, Colorado, USA

>

March 31, 2006

,

You make some great points. In order to change the combine content, however,

you're looking at a) changing how they've always done things and appealing to

the flat earth society. There is no scientific committee or similar group

overseeing this - just a lot of coaches from around the NFL who think the bench

press is the holy grail.

Having said that, at least the league has created a battery of tests that

measures something. Neither the drills, nor the way they are measured, are

ideal. But collectively they give a general idea of each player's preparation

and coachability. Without some sort of measurables, it would be a lot uglier if

all they did was interview athletes, grade their game films, get scuttlebutt etc

and then start haggling over contract terms.

Plisk

Velocity Sports Performance

Fairfield County CT

Schaefer wrote:

<<<I've been talking with a number of young men who are prepping for the

college coaching combines and they tell me they are required to do a maximum

repetition bench press with 225 pounds as one of the items on their list.

Apparently they are not generally concerned with the form it's performed with,

merely the number of reps performed. Thus the candidates usually are desperate

to increase this number by any means possible, usually when discovering they

cannot do the desired number of reps for a higher placement.

They also tell me of shuttle runs for agility testing and timed sprints to

measure speed, which make far more sense from an operating standpoint for

football.

It strikes me as quite odd though that this requirement of a 225 pounds for

maximum reps still persists as a coaching combine standard by which players are

judged? When you examine the requirement, it has little to do with football.

It doesn't really measure strength, but chest endurance in larger people... the

linemen they are up against are now far larger than 225 pounds? And it's not a

logical thing to ask of say, a wide receiver?

For those players whose bread and butter is speed and hand skills, a 225 for

reps bench press is meaningless. For those whose bread and butter is speed off

the line in a more deadlift or tire flipping position, such light repetitions in

a bench press for high numbers is not meaningful either. Some people who are

quite well built for football also are NOT built to bench press effectively

either... for example your taller tight ends, with longish arms and thus less

effective leverages for the bench press?

Is there any discussion among the coaching combines and NFL scouts to make a

different standard or remove this somewhat strange combine measure?>>>

March 31, 2006

Yes the combine is a funny little thing. I believe it has been studied and

proves out that vertical leap is the best indicator of athletic performance.

When looked at country wide (United States) most all of the starters on college

football teams also have the best vertical leaps at there given position. I

think the shuttle runs also shows how well an athlete can change direction and

achieve top speed in first few steps. The forty can be questioned. There are

quite a number of guys who have poor forty times but seem to have amazing game

speed. I read somewhere that Priest Holmes had a 4.79 forty time, however he

seems to be doing well in the pros. I think someone mentioned that they(NFL) are

or may be looking at 10 yard times. This would seem to be more in keeping with

the game as most running plays are of less than 10 yards and most passing plays

that are greater really only effect the receivers, in most cases. The almighty

bench press I don't get. The test should be a 3

or 5 rep max full range of motion and the player should have to keep his hands

at shoulder width or less, this would most closely resemble the majority of

times where his hands should be when blocking. Most plays last less than 7

seconds so why would one need to rep out on 225? Maybe the most times one can

bench thier only bodyweight in 7 seconds would be better. I personally would

rather know what they can squat and Deadlift as this especially for lineman

would be more in line with the action that they perform on everyplay. These 2

lifts also have an impact on vertical leap, so at least in my humble opinion

they would be important to test.

Damien Chiappini

SPF Performance

Pittsburgh

Schaefer wrote:

<<<<I've been talking with a number of young men who are prepping for the