Re: Splenda use and Ill health

[Guest guest]

Judith-

For some people kefir probably is, but that's not really the point. No

denial of human nature so severe as to eliminate all sweets will ever

succeed on a wide scale.

>Are keifr, ice cream and hot coco essential to life?

-

[Guest guest]

I don't advocate the elimination of all sweets. Only a change from the

paranoia that seems to grip people who are on low-carb diets, and makes them

believe that they cannot live without their candy, cake and cookies.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

Judith-

For some people kefir probably is, but that's not really the point. No

denial of human nature so severe as to eliminate all sweets will ever

succeed on a wide scale.

>Are keifr, ice cream and hot coco essential to life?

-

[Guest guest]

> ,

>

> Your other points are well taken, but wanting a substitute for

> sugar for oatmeal, ice cream, kefir, etc. sometimes we have to

> choose the best of all evils. Sugar is a killer for me, inc.

> honey, so I have to use something. I hate the taste of stevia.

> And saccharine doesn't taste quite right in many foods. So, I

> am still on the path of finding a substitute that won't cause

> harm and taste fairly good.

I hear you sister!

> I know that there are some fructose mixtures on the market like

> Whey Low and Kiwi Sweet, etc., but I don't respond well to fruit

> sugars, either. It looks like I will have to choose a chemical

> substitute, but which one????

Have you tried the 80% rebaudioside stevia? I've been meaning

to try a mixture of inulin and 80% rebaudioside stevia, but

haven't been able to get the Canadian company on the phone yet.

If I ever get a hold of some I'll let you know how it tastes.

[Guest guest]

Judith,

In a message dated 12/17/03 7:17:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jaltak@... writes:

> The vast majority of sweets are those made from refined flour and sugar.

> These are the sweets that people on low-carb diets are trying to replace.

This is not justification for a claim against sweets per se; it only applies

to refined flour and sugar. There are also many things made with only refined

flour, which are not sweet, and many things that are not have no significant

carbs at all, which will certainly contribute to ill health.

> I have heard many claims made for raw honey, but it is still a high

> carbohydrate food, and very few items, if any, are made with it.

If honey has a beneficial effect on insulin sensitivity, it's carbohydrate

count is immaterial.

How many items are made with it is also irrelevant, because people can choose

to make items or not make items with it as they wish. It's also delicious by

itself.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>

> There is no need in human nutrition for sweets, so the alternative

> is to train your taste buds away from sweet.

Why do all humans have an instinctive attraction to sweet

tastes, if they have absolutely no place in the human diet?

In any case, there's no need for watching sunsets, listening

to music, or having sex either, but I have no intention of

training my tastes off of any of them. If that's even truly

possible.

The ultimate purpose of good health is pleasure.

> The more fat and protein I eat the less carbs and sweet tastes

> I want.

I find the same, but we really have no way of knowing for

sure exactly how many sweets you really eat. We have only

your word, and many an ideologue has misrepresented their

actual conformity to what they preach. So I'm not convinced

that what you say is possible, even if possibly desirable.

[Guest guest]

>

> Are keifr, ice cream and hot coco essential to life?

Yes, they are essential to happiness, which is the whole

purpose of life.

[Guest guest]

>

> I don't advocate the elimination of all sweets. Only a change

> from the paranoia that seems to grip people who are on low-carb

> diets, and makes them believe that they cannot live without their

> candy, cake and cookies.

[Guest guest]

,

Wish I had an answer to your question.

Watching sunsets and listening to music are not as likely to impair health

as eating sweets. Sweets can, and do, destroy health. So the pursuit of

happiness and, at the same time, the pursuit of health may be impossible.

I never said that I do not eat sweets.

There is no way to know for sure if anyone on this list, including you,

practices what they preach.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

>

> There is no need in human nutrition for sweets, so the alternative

> is to train your taste buds away from sweet.

Why do all humans have an instinctive attraction to sweet

tastes, if they have absolutely no place in the human diet?

In any case, there's no need for watching sunsets, listening

to music, or having sex either, but I have no intention of

training my tastes off of any of them. If that's even truly

possible.

The ultimate purpose of good health is pleasure.

> The more fat and protein I eat the less carbs and sweet tastes

> I want.

I find the same, but we really have no way of knowing for

sure exactly how many sweets you really eat. We have only

your word, and many an ideologue has misrepresented their

actual conformity to what they preach. So I'm not convinced

that what you say is possible, even if possibly desirable.

[Guest guest]

>

> I don't advocate the elimination of all sweets. Only a change

> from the paranoia that seems to grip people who are on low-carb

> diets, and makes them believe that they cannot live without their

> candy, cake and cookies.

Tell a person " whatever you do, don't think about elephants " ,

and they'll have trouble thinking about anything else. It's

human nature to concentrate on what we can't have, or don't

have yet, rather than on what we already have. Once one is

secure in the knowledge that they can eat sweets when they

want to, the obsession with sweets loses its grip, but that

freedom is the first step.

[Guest guest]

> Judith,

>

> Just trying to get my family to eat healthier. If I don't

> make it myself with a sugar substitute, they are down at 7/11

> buying their ice cream and candy. I can control myself with

> an occasional indulgence, but I can't seem to control my kids.

> If it doesn't taste sweet with a good sweet taste (not stevia),

> they won't eat it. Hope you understand this.

Jafa shouldn't have to justify her tastes to anybody. This is

one of the things I hate most about these health and diet lists.

[Guest guest]

One of the things I do that's helps me avoid sweets is to tell myself that I

don't want them. I don't like them and they won't taste nearly as good as I

think they will.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

>

> I don't advocate the elimination of all sweets. Only a change

> from the paranoia that seems to grip people who are on low-carb

> diets, and makes them believe that they cannot live without their

> candy, cake and cookies.

Tell a person " whatever you do, don't think about elephants " ,

and they'll have trouble thinking about anything else. It's

human nature to concentrate on what we can't have, or don't

have yet, rather than on what we already have. Once one is

secure in the knowledge that they can eat sweets when they

want to, the obsession with sweets loses its grip, but that

freedom is the first step.

[Guest guest]

>

> One of the things I do that's helps me avoid sweets is to tell

> myself that I don't want them. I don't like them and they won't

> taste nearly as good as I think they will.

That's not an option for me, because my ethics forbid lying,

even to myself, actually _especially_ to myself. Although

I don't really _want_ to avoid sweets anyway, just make them

healthier.

[Guest guest]

-

People can discuss what they want as they want (within certain bounds of

civility, obviously). There's nothing so gruesome about someone asking

something to the effect of " Well, why do you need sweets, really? " . If we

start erecting taboos left and right, we'll be no better than conventional

doctors before long.

>Jafa shouldn't have to justify her tastes to anybody. This is

>one of the things I hate most about these health and diet lists.

-

[Guest guest]

<-

People can discuss what they want as they want (within certain bounds of

civility, obviously). There's nothing so gruesome about someone asking

something to the effect of " Well, why do you need sweets, really? " . If we

start erecting taboos left and right, we'll be no better than conventional

doctors before long.

>Jafa shouldn't have to justify her tastes to anybody. This is

>one of the things I hate most about these health and diet lists.

- >

I think the wording in this situation causes defenses to fly up. The

comment 'well, why do you need sweets, really?' almost implys an attack of

sorts......as if needing sweets in the diet is wrong. The human nature

strives for pleasure, and I personally couldn't imagine not having them now

and again............if I could avoid ever eating sweets I think I would

feel something like a robot. Now that is not to say someone else could do

just fine without them, this is just my personal feelings.

What I don't understand, is why someone could be in a discussion for

sweetening alternatives, and someone has to question why they would want

them at all? That is almost like telling the people discussing how to get

naturally processed coconut milk or something and just telling them....'why

dont you just not eat coconut milk'. Just a bit silly. I don't mean this

as an attack at all......just stating how the comment came across in my

opinion.

There is a viable discussion topic as to whether or not sweet items are

essential to the human diet, and that may have been the reason for the

comment......but that is just not how it came across.

Well....my two cents. Probably should have kept my mouth shut on this

one...but this one just stood out to me.

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[Guest guest]

In time it becomes truth. Those foods become far less tempting. And when I

do eat them they do not taste near as good as I thought they would.

I do not consider reprogramming the brain in the interest of better health

lying.

But to each his own.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

>

> One of the things I do that's helps me avoid sweets is to tell

> myself that I don't want them. I don't like them and they won't

> taste nearly as good as I think they will.

That's not an option for me, because my ethics forbid lying,

even to myself, actually _especially_ to myself. Although

I don't really _want_ to avoid sweets anyway, just make them

healthier.

[Guest guest]

With proper fats temptation is gone to the point where you look at sweets

and can't believe you used to crave them. Coconut milk every morning does

it for me.

Wanita

At 06:34 PM 12/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>In time it becomes truth. Those foods become far less tempting. And when I

>do eat them they do not taste near as good as I thought they would.

>

>I do not consider reprogramming the brain in the interest of better health

>lying.

>

>But to each his own.

>

>Judith Alta

>

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>

>

>

>>

>> One of the things I do that's helps me avoid sweets is to tell

>> myself that I don't want them. I don't like them and they won't

>> taste nearly as good as I think they will.

>

>That's not an option for me, because my ethics forbid lying,

>even to myself, actually _especially_ to myself. Although

>I don't really _want_ to avoid sweets anyway, just make them

>healthier.

>

>

[Guest guest]

The vast majority of sweets are those made from refined flour and sugar.

These are the sweets that people on low-carb diets are trying to replace.

I have heard many claims made for raw honey, but it is still a high

carbohydrate food, and very few items, if any, are made with it.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

In a message dated 12/17/03 3:13:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jaltak@... writes:

> Sweets can, and do, destroy health. So the pursuit of

> happiness and, at the same time, the pursuit of health may be impossible.

But sweets can, and do, repair health. Raw honey has been used, with

apparent success to treat diabetes. I haven't researched this, but there

are

abundant anecdotes and reports on the internet. It's a unique addition to

the diet

that most people, not all, would probably benefit from, over not consuming

it.

Many of the sweetest natural foods are some of the most beneficial, berries

for instance. Also, sugars play a variety of important physiological roles,

and it's likely that someone would be best of consuming them within the

proper

context and dosage, rather than relinquishing them completely.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Wanita,

That is so true.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

With proper fats temptation is gone to the point where you look at sweets

and can't believe you used to crave them. Coconut milk every morning does

it for me.

Wanita

At 06:34 PM 12/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>In time it becomes truth. Those foods become far less tempting. And when I

>do eat them they do not taste near as good as I thought they would.

>

>I do not consider reprogramming the brain in the interest of better health

>lying.

>

>But to each his own.

>

>Judith Alta

[Guest guest]

Jafa-

Well, there are much healthier ways to get relief from constipation, like a

little prune juice.

>Actually the diarrhea part that is so annoying to you, I find a bonus.

-

[Guest guest]

-

Come to think of it, no. Someone suggested it to me once, but I've never

seen it anywhere. I guess I ought to give it a go, though I remain skeptical.

>Have you ever tried erythritol? It's not supposed to cause

>the same sorts of digestive problems that the other sugar

>alcohols do.

-

[Guest guest]

-

I highly recommend that you avoid inulin like the plague.

>I've been meaning

>to try a mixture of inulin and 80% rebaudioside stevia,

-

[Guest guest]

-

Avoiding carb foods entirely is of course possible for individuals and can

be very healthy, but it's not possible on an institutional basis because

there will always be people who won't give them up entirely.

>So I'm not convinced

>that what you say is possible, even if possibly desirable.

-

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>Raw honey has been used, with

>apparent success to treat diabetes.

I am _extremely_ skeptical of this, but even if it's true, I'm almost

certain it's true only of a very few honeys and for only a very few

people. All raw honeys are not nutritionally (or otherwise) comparable

(that much I've had dramatic experience with) and all people cannot profit

from such a concentrated sugar source even if it's of the very best quality.

>Many of the sweetest natural foods are some of the most beneficial, berries

>for instance.

The more " natural " the berry, the less sweet.

>Also, sugars play a variety of important physiological roles,

>and it's likely that someone would be best of consuming them within the

>proper

>context and dosage, rather than relinquishing them completely.

As sugars are present in a number of non-carb foods (like fermented dairy,

liver, eggs, etc.) there's no way to relinquish sugars, just carb foods.

-

[Guest guest]

Raw milk too. The only way l can see raw honey as having any beneficial

effect would be also if it was local to where the person lived. Like using

honey before allergy season to get the pollens in you to make antibodies.

Berries today are hybridized for size and extra sugar content. Wild berries

have lower sugar content. Before sugar here the only sweeteners were honey

which didn't go far feeding many people, maple and birch sap in season.

Wintergreen leaves and berries are a sweet tasting winter treat. Except for

drying berries and making maple syrup there was nothing sweet out of

season. Corn, beans and squash if grown and stored for winter were much

less sweet than today's hybrids and when combined made a complete protein

like beans and rice.

Wanita

> Raw honey has been used, with

>apparent success to treat diabetes. I haven't researched this, but there

are

>abundant anecdotes and reports on the internet. It's a unique addition to

the diet

>that most people, not all, would probably benefit from, over not consuming

it.

>Many of the sweetest natural foods are some of the most beneficial, berries

>for instance. Also, sugars play a variety of important physiological roles,

>and it's likely that someone would be best of consuming them within the

proper

>context and dosage, rather than relinquishing them completely.

>

>Chris

[Guest guest]

In our house, they ARE essential to life!!! <grin>. At least to

my DH. However, you don't need a lot of sweetener in

any of those three things. Kefiili and a banana is plenty

sweet.

However, one comment: the folks I know that are low carb

seem to be *really* dependent on artificial sweeteners. Which

may be a sign that their body wants carbs? If some folk's

comments here are correct, then adding more fat or calories might

change the cravings. I know that on my current diet, I

don't crave sweets (rather the opposite, I don't eat them

much, maybe once a week). The only time I REALLY want

" sweet " is when I haven't eaten all day and gone past my 7pm

eating time (so I promise myself I'll have something w. protein

first, then the sweet craving goes away).

As for my family ... when we dropped wheat (and processed

foods) their sugar consumption went way down. I made

molasses candy the other day and my 9-yr-old grabbed

a piece and started eating it. She ate half a small piece

and was asking for a bowl to put the rest in ... " it's too

filling, Mom " she said. So I don't bother with artificial

sweeteners. Real sweeteners fill them up faster, I think.

-- Heidi

>Are keifr, ice cream and hot coco essential to life?

>

>Judith Alta

>

>-----Original Message-----

>

>Judith,

>

>Sorry, but kefir, ice cream and hot cocoa without a sweetener isn't worth

>the trouble, as it will go uneaten at our house. Even though bland and

>sour can ultimately be an acquired taste (or won't), I consider a sweet

>taste to be one of life's greatest pleasures. Just trying to do it, without

>sending my blood sugar to the moon!

>

>Jafa

>

>

>