Re: Splenda use and Ill health

[Guest guest]

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

>

> I highly recommend that you avoid inulin like the plague.

Now you know you have to be more specific than that.

What exactly have you heard bad about inulin? Diets

containing many dishes based upon mounds of browned

and reduced onions, which are very common in the world's

cuisines, contain a certain daily amount of inulin.

[Guest guest]

>>Many of the sweetest natural foods are some of the most beneficial, berries

>>for instance.

>

>The more " natural " the berry, the less sweet.

I've heard this, but I went up into the mountains once

and had some fresh berries from an alpine meadow. They

were SWEET. Persimmons are among the sweetest fruits,

and they haven't been bred all that much, I think. Ditto

pawpaws. I think some fruits (apples for one) really

have been bred for sweetness, but other fruits

exist to attract animals, to propagate the seeds, and

so are likely self-selected for sweetness.

Also, some fruits recently have been bred for LESS

sweetness, because sugar causes them to spoil

faster.

> >Also, sugars play a variety of important physiological roles,

>>and it's likely that someone would be best of consuming them within the

>>proper

>>context and dosage, rather than relinquishing them completely.

>

>As sugars are present in a number of non-carb foods (like fermented dairy,

>liver, eggs, etc.) there's no way to relinquish sugars, just carb foods.

And -- starches are just chains of sugars, anyway, and they reduce into sugars

rather

quickly (the process starts in your mouth, with the enzymes in saliva).

The glycemic index of table sugar is 64, rice cakes are 80,

pretzels are 83. (on one table, but others are similar).

I never understood the idea that starches are ok and sugars are not.

Esp. since it takes very little sweetener to, say, make hot chocolate.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>I've heard this, but I went up into the mountains once

>and had some fresh berries from an alpine meadow. They

>were SWEET.

Well, those may have been heirloom berries, but given how much the entire

landscape has changed, and how little land is genuinely virgin, I'm

inclined to doubt it.

>Persimmons are among the sweetest fruits,

>and they haven't been bred all that much, I think.

And how many people evolved eating lots of persimmons? You can always find

exceptions, but in general, agriculture has bred all plants to store more

starch and more sugar.

>I never understood the idea that starches are ok and sugars are not.

Hey, you won't find me disagreeing.

-

[Guest guest]

How do you make molasses candy?

RE: Re: Splenda use and Ill health

In our house, they ARE essential to life!!! <grin>. At least to

my DH. However, you don't need a lot of sweetener in

any of those three things. Kefiili and a banana is plenty

sweet.

However, one comment: the folks I know that are low carb

seem to be *really* dependent on artificial sweeteners. Which

may be a sign that their body wants carbs? If some folk's

comments here are correct, then adding more fat or calories might

change the cravings. I know that on my current diet, I

don't crave sweets (rather the opposite, I don't eat them

much, maybe once a week). The only time I REALLY want

" sweet " is when I haven't eaten all day and gone past my 7pm

eating time (so I promise myself I'll have something w. protein

first, then the sweet craving goes away).

As for my family ... when we dropped wheat (and processed

foods) their sugar consumption went way down. I made

molasses candy the other day and my 9-yr-old grabbed

a piece and started eating it. She ate half a small piece

and was asking for a bowl to put the rest in ... " it's too

filling, Mom " she said. So I don't bother with artificial

sweeteners. Real sweeteners fill them up faster, I think.

-- Heidi

>Are keifr, ice cream and hot coco essential to life?

>

>Judith Alta

>

>-----Original Message-----

>

>Judith,

>

>Sorry, but kefir, ice cream and hot cocoa without a sweetener isn't worth

>the trouble, as it will go uneaten at our house. Even though bland and

>sour can ultimately be an acquired taste (or won't), I consider a sweet

>taste to be one of life's greatest pleasures. Just trying to do it, without

>sending my blood sugar to the moon!

>

>Jafa

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

A lot of people go low-carb and never reduce the amount of sweetness they

ingest, even though they switch to new sweeteners, so I'd suggest it's more

likely an addiction to the sensation than anything else. Also, some

artificial sweeteners supposedly have a glycemic effect and may have other

addictive properties too.

>However, one comment: the folks I know that are low carb

>seem to be *really* dependent on artificial sweeteners. Which

>may be a sign that their body wants carbs?

-

[Guest guest]

>adding more fat or calories might change the cravings.

Adding fat and protein definitely reduced my cravings for sweets.

But it's still good to enjoy the sweet things of life from time to time!

Filippa

[Guest guest]

There is nothing wrong with that. But so many eat nothing but empty carbs it

amazes me that they can even function.

We stopped by a friend's house the other night as they were eating. Macaroni

and cheese from a box, peas, beef and gravy from the freezer section of the

grocery, bakery pie with cheap ice cream for dessert.

Yuk!

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

Adding fat and protein definitely reduced my cravings for sweets.

But it's still good to enjoy the sweet things of life from time to time!

Filippa

[Guest guest]

>Heidi-

>

>>I've heard this, but I went up into the mountains once

>>and had some fresh berries from an alpine meadow. They

>>were SWEET.

>

>Well, those may have been heirloom berries, but given how much the entire

>landscape has changed, and how little land is genuinely virgin, I'm

>inclined to doubt it.

In this case, I think it is virgin! We are talking major hiking, and a number of

years

ago. Mountain blueberries can be really sweet.

>>Persimmons are among the sweetest fruits,

>>and they haven't been bred all that much, I think.

>

>And how many people evolved eating lots of persimmons? You can always find

>exceptions, but in general, agriculture has bred all plants to store more

>starch and more sugar.

I've heard that, but haven't seen any hard statistics. Some plants and fruits do

store a lot of sugar (take sugar maples, for instance). I'll grant you

potatoes are bigger maybe than they used to be, but someone told me

that kudzu roots are several FEET long and full of starch (and make

great flour, if you are inclined to dig them up). Roots have been eaten

longer than anything else besides meat, most liklely, and like we both

say, starches aren't that far off from sugars.

Of course most roots aren't very digestible until cooked, so it

would be in the last 50,000 years or so that we've been eating them.

Time enough to adapt some ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

:

Yeah, I think the whole question is complex. I take it

personally since I listen to low-carbers talk ... I could

not, myself, stick to a diet that made me feel that inclined

to " dietary substitutes " .

-- Heidi

>A lot of people go low-carb and never reduce the amount of sweetness they

>ingest, even though they switch to new sweeteners, so I'd suggest it's more

>likely an addiction to the sensation than anything else. Also, some

>artificial sweeteners supposedly have a glycemic effect and may have other

>addictive properties too.

>

[Guest guest]

>How do you make molasses candy?

Sheesh, I knew someone would ask that. I didn't have

a recipe, it was a science experiment. I boiled some

molasses, corn syrup, and butter, until it reached the

" hard crack " stage (see a candy book for details on that).

Then I added some baking soda until it fizzed, stirred it up,

and poured it onto greased marble. Then when it was

partially cool, cut it into pieces.

You probably don't need the corn syrup -- it helps

prevent crystallization (vinegar works too, I think, so

does cream, but like I said, it was an experiment).

The results were -- a very light, airy crispy candy.

I kind of burned it a little (too much caramel) but

otherwise it was great. Would have been better with nuts.

-- Heidi

>

[Guest guest]

> There is nothing wrong with that. But so many eat nothing but empty

carbs it

> amazes me that they can even function.

>

They cannot function! They are hopelessly addicted to sugar, coffee,

sodas, etc...that can keep them functioning by stimulating their

bodies, not by bringing them health! Food is Your Best Medicine

explains the difference between health vs. stimulation. Take away

these stimulants and these people could not function!! And try to

find anyone in this country, besides on this list, that is not

addicted to some form of stimulation or another...it's virtually

impossible!

'Tis quite sad....

Becky

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

>>>I've heard this, but I went up into the mountains once

>>>and had some fresh berries from an alpine meadow. They

>>>were SWEET.

>>

>>Well, those may have been heirloom berries, but given how much the entire

>>landscape has changed, and how little land is genuinely virgin, I'm

>>inclined to doubt it.

>

>In this case, I think it is virgin! We are talking major hiking, and a

number of years

>ago. Mountain blueberries can be really sweet.

There's wild low and high bush blueberries under the power lines here.

Don't know if they somehow lie dormant then come up after major cutting.

We're in the higher spots up from a valley. Is a higher place with an

outlook cliff we go to sometimes in early summer. Berries are sweeter there

but they're also smaller than ours and the plants are smaller too. Maybe

the soil acidity is higher too.

> someone told me

>that kudzu roots are several FEET long and full of starch (and make

>great flour, if you are inclined to dig them up). Roots have been eaten

>longer than anything else besides meat, most liklely, and like we both

>say, starches aren't that far off from sugars.

Kudzu was brought here from Asia. Nearly taken over the southeast in

overgrowth. Pretty sure its high in inulin. Starch is sugar without the

sweet. :-)

Wanita

[Guest guest]

,

Do you know of any other companies that make this mixture? Also what percentage

is the inulin? Maybe it's not in the product to any great degree to cause harm.

Jafa

liberty@... wrote:

> ,

>

> Your other points are well taken, but wanting a substitute for

> sugar for oatmeal, ice cream, kefir, etc. sometimes we have to

> choose the best of all evils. Sugar is a killer for me, inc.

> honey, so I have to use something. I hate the taste of stevia.

> And saccharine doesn't taste quite right in many foods. So, I

> am still on the path of finding a substitute that won't cause

> harm and taste fairly good.

I hear you sister!

> I know that there are some fructose mixtures on the market like

> Whey Low and Kiwi Sweet, etc., but I don't respond well to fruit

> sugars, either. It looks like I will have to choose a chemical

> substitute, but which one????

Have you tried the 80% rebaudioside stevia? I've been meaning

to try a mixture of inulin and 80% rebaudioside stevia, but

haven't been able to get the Canadian company on the phone yet.

If I ever get a hold of some I'll let you know how it tastes.

[Guest guest]

> ,

>

> Do you know of any other companies that make this mixture?

> Also what percentage is the inulin? Maybe it's not in the

> product to any great degree to cause harm.

They don't sell a mixture. They sell inulin and the 80%

rebaudioside stevia as separate products. Inulin, or at

least fructooligosaccharides are half as sweet by volume

as sucrose, so I was going to mix the two in various

proportions according to the needs of each recipe. I don't

know of any other companies that sells either product.

[Guest guest]

>> However, one comment: the folks I know that are low carb

seem to be *really* dependent on artificial sweeteners. <<

You mean other than me, right Heidi? <G>

I only use a little stevia in my coffee and tea, that's it. I did try a couple

of recipes for the holidays, that I might have mentioned here, but I don't use

artificial sweeteners otherwise and I don't eat sweets in the normal course of

things. I did have some for Thanksgiving and I plan on having some on Christmas.

Twice a year seems reasonable to me.

>> Which

may be a sign that their body wants carbs? If some folk's

comments here are correct, then adding more fat or calories might

change the cravings. <<

I think that people who go to low carb while trying to keep their old, junky way

of eating, are quite likely to shovel in the artifical sweeteners and not lose

their craving for large amounts of sweets. The purpose of Atkins induction is to

break the cycle of cravings, and you are strictly limited in the amount of

artificial sweetener you have during induction. And yet many people ignore this.

But yes, I found that my cravings (for anything) can be controlled by eating fat

- a deviled egg, cheese, tuna with mayo....

Christie

[Guest guest]

>> I could

not, myself, stick to a diet that made me feel that inclined

to " dietary substitutes " . <<

Neither could I. I'm assuming these are not NT-types?

Christie

[Guest guest]

>>> However, one comment: the folks I know that are low carb

>seem to be *really* dependent on artificial sweeteners. <<

>

>You mean other than me, right Heidi? <G>

Ummm ... well, by " know " I mean that I personally observe their

diet. I suspect folks on THIS list don't use or need a lot of sweets

and wouldn't be esp. tempted by a box of lo-carb brownie mix.

But I don't KNOW that. I've found myself that on the NT diet

I have few cravings, but I haven't tried to go super lo carb either.

>

>>> Which

>may be a sign that their body wants carbs? If some folk's

>comments here are correct, then adding more fat or calories might

>change the cravings. <<

>

>I think that people who go to low carb while trying to keep their old, junky

way of eating, are quite likely to shovel in the artifical sweeteners and not

lose their craving for large amounts of sweets. The purpose of Atkins induction

is to break the cycle of cravings, and you are strictly limited in the amount of

artificial sweetener you have during induction. And yet many people ignore this.

But yes, I found that my cravings (for anything) can be controlled by eating fat

- a deviled egg, cheese, tuna with mayo....

I agree ... I also think people tend to TRY to eat less too. Or at least

that I've observed they eat very little. And (again, only the ones

I've observed) they seem to stay in " induction " indefinitely. So they

may be doing something wrong. Or Mercola could be right and

people fall into different body types. Or they could have food allergies.

Who knows ... but at any rate, if I found myself relying on artificial

sweeteners to the extent I've seen sometimes, I'd say *something*

wasn't working. The thought of eating Splenda constantly to be thin just

doesn't appeal!

-- Heidi