Data, Star Trek and honesty

[Guest guest]

Hi everybody,

was just watching Star Trek Next Generation today and Data was

watching a performance where Berkley acted really badly. Everyone

clapped and Data was confused, because he couldn't understand why

everyone was clapping when Berkley's performance had been so bad.

This scenario reminds me of a recent experience I had myself. I went

to see a band play live. I had thier CD and thought their music was

good; however I was disapointed by their live performance and at a

later date I told one of the band members what I thought. He took it

extremely well and told me that everyone else had said they were good

and yet the band themselves knew that they had played badly that

night and I was the 1st person to actually say what they already

knew. He also said it was a relief to finaly hear someone actually

say it, since they all already knew it, just nobody outside the band

was admitting it.

[Guest guest]

Inger,

That just being tactful.

[Guest guest]

I remember once when I used to work in the culture department of a

government agency. One day we were taken to a modern art museum to see a

special exhibition by a contemprary artist. In my humble opinion, the

paintings sucked. Not what I would call art. But everyone else were

pretending to see all these qualities in them as if there was really

something there to see, when in fact the 'artist' had just been splashing

color over the canvases at random. I really felt like that child in the

fairy tale then, even though I didn't say anything until my boss actually

asked my opinion at lunch afterwards. When I indicated that I was not awed

with admiration for this artist, everyone stared at me as if I had just

sprouted antennas on my head. :-)

Ironically, they probably felt as sorry for me, as I felt for them.

Oh well... the lunch was good, anyway.

Inger

Greebo wrote:

>> was just watching Star Trek Next Generation today and Data was watching a

performance where Berkley acted really badly. Everyone clapped and Data was

confused, because he couldn't understand why everyone was clapping when

Berkley's performance had been so bad.

>> This scenario reminds me of a recent experience I had myself. I went to

see a band play live. I had thier CD and thought their music was good;

however I was disapointed by their live performance and at a later date I

told one of the band members what I thought. He took it extremely well and

told me that everyone else had said they were

good and yet the band themselves knew that they had played badly that night

and I was the 1st person to actually say what they already knew. He also

said it was a relief to finaly hear someone actually say it, since they all

already knew it, just nobody outside the band was admitting it.

windracer123:

> This is one of the things which confused me to no end when I was

younger. I could not lie to avoid hurting someone's feelings like NT

children did, but told the truth about how I felt. My mom

continuously got onto me for being " too honest " . Of course, this was

many years before anyone understood about Aspergers. I also had a

hard time telling people that I liked the gifts they gave me when in

reality, I wanted something else. When you want one certain item for

Christmas or birthdays and didn't get it-that really pissed me off.

> Anyways, I really love Star Trek-especially Data since he reminds me

of some of my experiences being different than everyone else.

> This episode reminds me of that story about the Emperor's Clothes-And how

only a small child told the truth which everyone else wouldn't for fear of

being thought of badly. The emperor didn't really have a new suit-but

everyone pretended that they could see his nice new clothes. This reminds me

of NTs when they lie like this.

[Guest guest]

Very interesting analysis, .

My policy is to be as honest as possible at all times, but to try avoid being so in a manner that may hurt people's feelings, unless absolutely necessary. I may thus occasionally hold back some things, but find it very difficult or impossible to actually lie or pretend - especially when it comes to important things. And it also depends on with whom I am talking. To a stranger or not-so-close aquaintance or relative, it is easier to just be polite, but with my closest family and friends, it would feel wrong not to be totally open and sincere.

And it has been my experience too, that once people get used to you being natural, frank, spontaneous and prone to talking about deeper things instead of wasting time on useless chitchat, it sort of rubs off on them too. Since I've started to be less inhibited over the last decade or so, I've gotten more close to my family and friends than I ever thought was possible.

Inger

:

> Countless studies and surveys have been done on this topic. Most of them say that people tell "white lies" in order to maintain social cohesion and stability. In other words, people would hedge the truth in order not to be kicked out of the group, or get their head bashed in. This makes sense, after a fashion. For most of human history, the family unit and small tribes were the norm. Getting kicked out of such a group would be a virtual death sentence. (bear in mind this was a time when there were probably fewer than 10 million people on the planet and there were many dangerous animals about.) Today's social groups are more likely to be found in the office, though the family is still common. You have to sling a lot of BS in the office to keep everyone happy. NT's and their egos (not that I enjoy being critisized either, however).

> Now, there are ways to tell the truth but not be so blunt as to really make the other person angry. If asked about how they performed, start out by stating the good points then mentioning a point or two where they need work. Personal appearance it much tougher though, and it is generally better to keep you mouth shut. If you have to answer, you might say that whatever is nice, but you prefer such and such. So, if someone usually wore their hair one way then changed it and it looks bad, you might say "that's a nice change, but I think the old way suited you better".

> Still, some people will get used to you telling the truth and come to expect that and even respect it. Still, it helps to be able to couch it in terms that don't hurt too much. So, if someone asks if you like a new tie but it is a horrible gaudy thing, just say "no, that's a little wild for my taste", wild or whatever depending on what you think of it. The basic idea is not to use the harshest terms possible, the bluntest, but rather look toward the mid-range and up. Too soft or always agreeing and people won't like you just as if you were too blunt, though they will view as a suck up rather than a boor.

> However, I did recently read an article that said being too nice at the office will hold back your career. Nothing new there since being nice in real life gets you treated badly too. Appearantly, being a jerk, treating people badly (though not by telling the truth), stealing other people's credit, are taken as signs of a go-getter and power. In other words, jerks are often seen as leaders and people who can get things done. This is why bullies are so popular in school. Its a throwback to the "ooga-booga" brain of our ancient ancestors, Eons ago and many steps back on the evolutionary scale. Too bad that has to persist given all that we have learned about leadership and so on.