Guest guest Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 You've been reading my mail. I've been talking about how my red blood counts have suddenly come up coo-coo, as related to either B12, Folic Acid, or both. I've never been anemic in my life, but now, supposedly am (if this wasn't lab error). It stunned me, so I started digging around and found out about Pernicious Anemia, another autoimmune disease, being a very common one with long, ongoing, undertreated hypothyroidism. Of course, you can have it without having thyroid disease. Anyway, in B12 malabsorption, another type of antibody attacks the places in the stomach where the intrinsic factor is manufactured, and that person never again is able to absorb B12, I don't care how much of it they consume. So, for the rest of their lives, they have to either get B12 shots or use the nasal spray stuff. As a matter of fact, I am going for this test this morning, but won't know the results for about 2 to 3 days or so. Another B vitamin mentioned in the same article was B6, but it's going to be, in this case, a matter of taking more of it by mouth. Intrinsic factor combines with B12 in the stomach, which is the only way that the body can absorb and use it. Where there is one autoimmune disease, it can be very likely that there are others or will be others. That doesn't mean that everyone with Hashi's will have another one though. I have definitely been hypo for at least the last yr, and strongly suspect, undertreated for around 3 yrs before that. I'm trying to get the Armour up into a tolerable range for the last 6 months, but it has been slow-going for me. My body needed the T3, but hasn't had any for the last approximately 7 yrs or so. That's about the time that my health started to get worse, and I never felt good. The B12 problem can be doing damage in the body for 10 to 20 yrs before it ever shows up in the blood counts. It can even be one of the causes of thyroid disease. By the time it shows up in the blood counts, some bad stuff has generally been going on, as in my case. I'm guessing of the two, it's probably the B12, instead of folic acid. Tx B vitamins > Has anyone here heard that Hashimoto's patients or even hypothyroid > patients have difficulty using and uptaking B Vitamins. In this > theory, you would need to get a B12 shot like every month or so just > to keep it in your system. > > I'm trying to figure out whether this " healthstore " owner who has > Hashi's is legit or not. She has come up with some weird stuff and > I'm trying to see if she's right or a quack. > > I am taking Dr. Teitlebaum's Fatigued to Fantastic vitamins now. So > far, so good. > > P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 THanks so much for that info! Being Hashi's myself, I'm wondering if I really haven't started to develop CFS as I'm SO tired. That's why I switched to Tietlebaum's vitamins because I figured if I am, these can definitely help. My hubby just doesn't get how debilitating this condition can be. He just thinks I can take a pill and be happy. Wish it were so!!! Stress is a huge factor in my life and I've been very stressed lately. I bet my antibodies are VERY high right now. Again, thanks for the info! Let us know about your test results! P > You've been reading my mail. I've been talking about how my red blood > counts have suddenly come up coo-coo, as related to either B12, Folic Acid, > or both. I've never been anemic in my life, but now, supposedly am (if this > wasn't lab error). It stunned me, so I started digging around and found out > about Pernicious Anemia, another autoimmune disease, being a very common one > with long, ongoing, undertreated hypothyroidism. Of course, you can have it > without having thyroid disease. Anyway, in B12 malabsorption, another type > of antibody attacks the places in the stomach where the intrinsic factor is > manufactured, and that person never again is able to absorb B12, I don't > care how much of it they consume. So, for the rest of their lives, they > have to either get B12 shots or use the nasal spray stuff. As a matter of > fact, I am going for this test this morning, but won't know the results for > about 2 to 3 days or so. Another B vitamin mentioned in the same article > was B6, but it's going to be, in this case, a matter of taking more of it by > mouth. Intrinsic factor combines with B12 in the stomach, which is the only > way that the body can absorb and use it. Where there is one autoimmune > disease, it can be very likely that there are others or will be others. > That doesn't mean that everyone with Hashi's will have another one though. > I have definitely been hypo for at least the last yr, and strongly suspect, > undertreated for around 3 yrs before that. I'm trying to get the Armour up > into a tolerable range for the last 6 months, but it has been slow- going for > me. My body needed the T3, but hasn't had any for the last approximately 7 > yrs or so. That's about the time that my health started to get worse, and I > never felt good. The B12 problem can be doing damage in the body for 10 to > 20 yrs before it ever shows up in the blood counts. It can even be one of > the causes of thyroid disease. By the time it shows up in the blood counts, > some bad stuff has generally been going on, as in my case. I'm guessing of > the two, it's probably the B12, instead of folic acid. > > > Tx > > B vitamins > > > > Has anyone here heard that Hashimoto's patients or even hypothyroid > > patients have difficulty using and uptaking B Vitamins. In this > > theory, you would need to get a B12 shot like every month or so just > > to keep it in your system. > > > > I'm trying to figure out whether this " healthstore " owner who has > > Hashi's is legit or not. She has come up with some weird stuff and > > I'm trying to see if she's right or a quack. > > > > I am taking Dr. Teitlebaum's Fatigued to Fantastic vitamins now. So > > far, so good. > > > > P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 I haven't heard of anything specific around difficulty absorbing all B vitamins, although I've seen something mentioned about B12. From memory, it's something to do with gastric antibodies, that are often higher with thyroid problems. That blocks absorption. I would also check the liver - apparently the liver can store B12 for up to five years. Also, B12 absorption declines with age. But B vitamin defeciency is fairly common these days because of the increased use of processed foods and alcohol. Here's some of the indicators: " Judith DeCava, Ph.D, in the article " Vitamin B Complex in Human Nutrition, " lists many possible symptoms of a B complex deficiency: mild to severe depression forgetfulness vague fears uneasiness to panic mood swings rage morbid thoughts hostility restlessness apprehension constant feeling that something dreadful is going to happen suspicions instability anxiety mental confusion noise sensitivity inability to handle stress hearing noises, voices, etc. loss of ability to concentrate impaired intellect loss of memory nervousness weakness fatigue lightheadedness or dizziness digestive problems hypochlorhydria (insufficient stomach acid production) constipation or diarrhea stomach pains decreased or increased appetite craving for sweets heart palpitations chest pains neuralgia to neuritis muscular soreness pain, tingling or achiness cold hands and feet heightened sensitivity to touch and/or pain menstrual complaints soreness of the mouth dermatitis acne burning or itching eyes difficulty swallowing sore throat hypochondria headaches insomnia or sleep disturbances. According to Dr. Murray, " A classical symptom of B complex deficiency, which has reached cronicity, is a constant feeling that something dreadful is about to happen. However, the first and most common complaint, especially among women, is depression and the tendency to cry without any particular reason. " http://chetday.com/vitaminbdeficiencies.html I've done the B12 shots (and Myers Cocktail) - the cost me $40.00 Canadian. At three times a week for 16 weeks - it was costly. But it was a life saver. My understanding the body can tolerate high doses of B12. I also take B 12 pills - always sublingually. B vitamins should be taken together ( " complex " ) as they interact with each other. Also, B5 is necessary for the adrenals. Overall, B vitamins are not going to hurt you as they are water soluble. Thats why excess is passed throught urine. I believe it's the B2 that turns the urine yellow. Vancouver > Has anyone here heard that Hashimoto's patients or even hypothyroid > patients have difficulty using and uptaking B Vitamins. In this > theory, you would need to get a B12 shot like every month or so just to keep it in your system. > > I'm trying to figure out whether this " healthstore " owner who has > Hashi's is legit or not. She has come up with some weird stuff and > I'm trying to see if she's right or a quack. > > I am taking Dr. Teitlebaum's Fatigued to Fantastic vitamins now. So > far, so good. > > P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 I looked up the symptoms for pernicious anemia, and I do have several of them. Would it be safe to go ahead and start on some B12 without having a blood test first? I am still having a lot of trouble with dizziness and unsteadiness, I have tachycardia, tinnitus, loss of appetite, nausea, low RBC -- I forget the rest, but several of them. Since my doctors are not always very receptive to my ideas of what might be wrong, do you think it would be okay for me to just start on some B12 and see if I feel better? Jo > > Has anyone here heard that Hashimoto's patients or even > hypothyroid > > patients have difficulty using and uptaking B Vitamins. In this > > theory, you would need to get a B12 shot like every month or so > just to keep it in your system. > > > > I'm trying to figure out whether this " healthstore " owner who has > > Hashi's is legit or not. She has come up with some weird stuff and > > I'm trying to see if she's right or a quack. > > > > I am taking Dr. Teitlebaum's Fatigued to Fantastic vitamins now. > So > > far, so good. > > > > P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 It would be a good idea to take the B12, which should be combined in your multivitamins, with the other B vitamins, but you really do need this testing, as I now believe that most of us thyroid patients do. My testing shows low red blood cells, high MCV, low MCHC, and high RDW, which is the pattern for either the low B12 and/or folic acid. I went yesterday morning and got the B12 test, and should be hearing something back in the next day or two. With a blood cell pattern like this and suspectin B12 shortage, it is absolutely crucial to get this particular testing done, as there is such a small window of time before permanent damage (neurological variety) occurs, especially once it shows in the red blood cells. I don't know for sure that this is what it is, but it is the first thing to consider. It was $70 with HealthCheck. Tx Re: B vitamins > I looked up the symptoms for pernicious anemia, and I do have > several of them. Would it be safe to go ahead and start on some B12 > without having a blood test first? I am still having a lot of > trouble with dizziness and unsteadiness, I have tachycardia, > tinnitus, loss of appetite, nausea, low RBC -- I forget the rest, > but several of them. Since my doctors are not always very receptive > to my ideas of what might be wrong, do you think it would be okay > for me to just start on some B12 and see if I feel better? > > Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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