Hi - New to the group and to Hashi's

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I can tell you right now this is going to be a long message - sorry!

I have so many questions and am currently feeling a little

overwhelmed with this new diagnosis. I'm so glad that this group is

here - I look forward to getting involved, and your postings have

already been very helpful.

I'm a 28-year-old woman in California recently diagnosed with

Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (but no hypo/hyper thyroid). I'm trying to

learn as much as I can (my doctor told me nothing - informed me of

the diagnosis over the phone and then told me to come back in 2

months - that was it). I have had mild alopecia areata for around 4

years, which was the reason my new dermatologist wanted to test my

thyroid in the first place. I have been on a low dose Prozac for

over 10 years, and I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes about 2 years

ago but have since regulated it with diet/exercise so that I am no

longer in danger. Now I'm wondering if all of this is related

somehow.

My symptoms are fogginess, inability to concentrate, increased

depression/feeling of being overwhelmed, fatigue and weight gain. I

am really annoyed about the weight because I worked really hard to

get healthy and lose around 30 lbs when I had the diabetes scare.

And now I've suddenly gained around 15 of it back within the last 2

months with no diet/lifestyle change. Sigh. :-)

Here are my recent lab results... are my antibody levels

outrageously high? Or is this a " normal " level for someone with

Hashi's? And, can Hashi's itself be treated, or do the medications

only regulate the subsequent hormone problems? (i.e. is there

anything I can do to stop the progression of Hashi's?)

T4 Free = 0.8 (0.58-1.64)

TSH = 2.02 (0.34-5.60)

Thyroglobulin Autoantibodies = 136 (<60)

Thyroid Peroxidase = 1256 (<60)

My first doctor (internal medicine) was awful; I am seeing a new

internist at the beginning of August. Do you think that I should ask

for a referral to an endocrinologist? Or have people had success

staying with an internist?

I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions as I learn more about the

disease and visit my new doctor. I appreciate your time and any

advice you can offer.

Thanks!

Marina

[Guest guest]

VERY high TPO antibodies! With the symptoms you've listed, you've been

hypothyroid for many yrs. That T4 is entirely too low, though it is in the

" normal " range. I use that word normal loosely because a whole lot of us

don't believe that these ranges are normal at all, and we are all made so

individually, we can't be put in an assembly line of thyroid treatment.

Most people feel better (according to the masses) with their Free T4 in the

upper range of normal. Also, I don't see a Free t3 here, and it could be

the most important one. All T4 converts basically to T3, so, if you're not

converting it would cause great problems, being as T3 is the useable form in

the body.

Hi - New to the group and to Hashi's

> Hi All,

>

> I can tell you right now this is going to be a long message - sorry!

> I have so many questions and am currently feeling a little

> overwhelmed with this new diagnosis. I'm so glad that this group is

> here - I look forward to getting involved, and your postings have

> already been very helpful.

>

> I'm a 28-year-old woman in California recently diagnosed with

> Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (but no hypo/hyper thyroid). I'm trying to

> learn as much as I can (my doctor told me nothing - informed me of

> the diagnosis over the phone and then told me to come back in 2

> months - that was it). I have had mild alopecia areata for around 4

> years, which was the reason my new dermatologist wanted to test my

> thyroid in the first place. I have been on a low dose Prozac for

> over 10 years, and I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes about 2 years

> ago but have since regulated it with diet/exercise so that I am no

> longer in danger. Now I'm wondering if all of this is related

> somehow.

>

> My symptoms are fogginess, inability to concentrate, increased

> depression/feeling of being overwhelmed, fatigue and weight gain. I

> am really annoyed about the weight because I worked really hard to

> get healthy and lose around 30 lbs when I had the diabetes scare.

> And now I've suddenly gained around 15 of it back within the last 2

> months with no diet/lifestyle change. Sigh. :-)

>

> Here are my recent lab results... are my antibody levels

> outrageously high? Or is this a " normal " level for someone with

> Hashi's? And, can Hashi's itself be treated, or do the medications

> only regulate the subsequent hormone problems? (i.e. is there

> anything I can do to stop the progression of Hashi's?)

> T4 Free = 0.8 (0.58-1.64)

> TSH = 2.02 (0.34-5.60)

> Thyroglobulin Autoantibodies = 136 (<60)

> Thyroid Peroxidase = 1256 (<60)

>

> My first doctor (internal medicine) was awful; I am seeing a new

> internist at the beginning of August. Do you think that I should ask

> for a referral to an endocrinologist? Or have people had success

> staying with an internist?

>

> I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions as I learn more about the

> disease and visit my new doctor. I appreciate your time and any

> advice you can offer.

>

> Thanks!

> Marina

[Guest guest]

Hi, ! Of course we can disagree, it's a good discussion to have!

, you'll find a lot of people on here who think endos are the most

" by the numbers " docs of all and therefore don't have anything

additional to contribute to the *typical* thyroid case (not something

unusual like HE). They look at the labs and tell you where you should

be on your meds. One of the better ones examined my thyroid with his

hands and was able to tell me when I had a nodule. But that's about it.

Most endos are more interested in treating diabetes... this is what

Shomon says (thyroid-info.com) and I tend to believe it, having

seen my share of plenty.

The thing is, ... I say docs are docs only because the research on

thyroid treatment simply isn't there. Many of us here are frustrated

because again, most docs just look at the labs and tell us we're fine

rather than listening to us tell them genuinely about our symptoms. It's

pretty easy to look at labs and adjust one's dosage accordingly -- I can

(and do) do that myself, no MD, specialist or otherwise, necessary!

One thing I know for sure -- thyroid patients need more options. The

current popular hormone replacement protocols ain't cutting it. And docs

have to help us push for that... we can't do it alone. But most refuse to

hear us.

Anyway, we definitely do appreciate your perspective, . Please

don't forget that little " Wrap message text " checkbox below your text

window... your messages are still appearing on top of the ads. Thanks!

~

> hey susan - i just have to disagree sortof with one statement but thats OK

> to do - right - we can agree to disagree on things right? anyway - your

> statement about

>

> <<Endos are not necessarily better than internists...

> but generally doctors are doctors, it's not at all easy to find a good

> one for treating this>>

>

> i'm not in agreement that endo's aren't necessarily better than internists -

> you did say " necessarily " which isn't positively (LOL) but it still relays

> to the person there isn't a difference and there is - i hate to throw in

> here that i'm a RN b/c i hate for that to imply that i know more than others

> b/c i don't on most things but do on others and i can tell you the

> additional training they go through for a specialty certainly makes a

> difference. not to menttion ALL day long they treat the same problem - you

> have to get better at it unless you are completely ignorant - and there are

> some out there like that but not the majority. step out of the endo system

> for a second and jump into obgyn - all dr's have been trained about

> delivering babies but would you go to a GP to have your baby delivered if he

> did maybe 10 a year by accident or to a specialist that knows how to deal

> with all the complications day in day out and actually do it and deelivers

> probably 10 before the week is halfway through ? put that to any profession

> - what about an ortho - would you want a GP doing surgery to internally

> fixate a broken bone? true it might be harder to find a good one that agrees

> with your way of thinking or has good bedside manner etc but doctors are not

> just doctors - there are good ones. its just unffortunate that the

> specialist a fewer therefore harder to find but there is a reason for that..

> ..and just b/c they don't always agree with us doesn't mean they are wrong -

> its just how they were trained. my endo wouldn't give me armour and

> explained why and being in the medical profession myself i couldn't argue

> with her - i'm not sure if i were in her shoes if i wouldn't have done the

> same thing - armour is not approved by the endocrinology society as a group

> and she is standing with them - i've had dr's who would give me anything i

> asked for but i didn't have faith in them - i could tell they didn't know

> what they were talking about - i even started playing games with this one dr

> and asking for things i KNEW i shouldn't have and he gave them to me ---

> needless to say i don't go there anymore - then i have a obgyn who knows her

> S*** but doesn't have what i consider a great bedside manner - but she saved

> both my children - and thats why i go to her - because she can - when it

> comes down to it i'm not there to hold a conversation or have them tell me

> what i want to hear or give me whatever i want - i'm going there for their

> knowledge and experience that i ddon't have to help me with a problem. as a

> RN i always recommend a specialist and then recommend asking ppl who they

> go to - then start your search from there.

> sorry if i'm coming on strong - i'm usually not very verbal but i guess b/c

> i work in the field and believe me you learn a lot being on the other side

> and it really isn't all bad - in fact most of it is good.

[Guest guest]

Hi and ,

I just have to jump in on this one, I usually lurk more than

pariticpate so avoid duplication. But these post struck a chord with

me. I have seen repeated posts slamming endos, and I have

experienced just the oppositie. The nurse practitioner, ob/gyn/

thearpist, pediatrician who noticed abnormal bruising at my daughters

vist and said I should be seen, and my primary care doc all missed

the problem. Even the Pcp after knowing I had a problem was behind

on the test values and presence of antibodies and refused to refer

me. It was an endo that finally solved the mystery and helped. And

he does not go by the " numbers " but is an old timer. Maybe age is

what makes the difference.

Oh, that pcp would also give me whatever I asked for except more

thyroid medicine. I claimed I kept him so I wouldn't lose my

prescribing power. But that was worthless because I can't research

everything.

-- In Thyroiditis , " suuzin " <suuzin@y...> wrote:

> Hi, ! Of course we can disagree, it's a good discussion to

have!

>

> , you'll find a lot of people on here who think endos are the

most

> " by the numbers " docs of all and therefore don't have anything

> additional to contribute to the *typical* thyroid case (not

something

> unusual like HE). They look at the labs and tell you where you

should

> be on your meds. One of the better ones examined my thyroid with his

> hands and was able to tell me when I had a nodule. But that's about

it.

> Most endos are more interested in treating diabetes... this is what

> Shomon says (thyroid-info.com) and I tend to believe it, having

> seen my share of plenty.

>

> The thing is, ... I say docs are docs only because the

research on

> thyroid treatment simply isn't there. Many of us here are

frustrated

> because again, most docs just look at the labs and tell us we're

fine

> rather than listening to us tell them genuinely about our symptoms.

It's

> pretty easy to look at labs and adjust one's dosage accordingly --

I can

> (and do) do that myself, no MD, specialist or otherwise, necessary!

>

> One thing I know for sure -- thyroid patients need more options.

The

> current popular hormone replacement protocols ain't cutting it. And

docs

> have to help us push for that... we can't do it alone. But most

refuse to

> hear us.

>

> Anyway, we definitely do appreciate your perspective, . Please

> don't forget that little " Wrap message text " checkbox below your

text

> window... your messages are still appearing on top of the ads.

Thanks!

>

> ~

>

>

> > hey susan - i just have to disagree sortof with one statement but

thats OK

> > to do - right - we can agree to disagree on things right? anyway -

your

> > statement about

> >

> > <<Endos are not necessarily better than internists...

> > but generally doctors are doctors, it's not at all easy to find a

good

> > one for treating this>>

> >

> > i'm not in agreement that endo's aren't necessarily better than

internists -

> > you did say " necessarily " which isn't positively (LOL) but it

still relays

> > to the person there isn't a difference and there is - i hate to

throw in

> > here that i'm a RN b/c i hate for that to imply that i know more

than others

> > b/c i don't on most things but do on others and i can tell you the

> > additional training they go through for a specialty certainly

makes a

> > difference. not to menttion ALL day long they treat the same

problem - you

> > have to get better at it unless you are completely ignorant - and

there are

> > some out there like that but not the majority. step out of the

endo system

> > for a second and jump into obgyn - all dr's have been trained

about

> > delivering babies but would you go to a GP to have your baby

delivered if he

> > did maybe 10 a year by accident or to a specialist that knows how

to deal

> > with all the complications day in day out and actually do it and

deelivers

> > probably 10 before the week is halfway through ? put that to any

profession

> > - what about an ortho - would you want a GP doing surgery to

internally

> > fixate a broken bone? true it might be harder to find a good one

that agrees

> > with your way of thinking or has good bedside manner etc but

doctors are not

> > just doctors - there are good ones. its just unffortunate that the

> > specialist a fewer therefore harder to find but there is a reason

for that..

> > ..and just b/c they don't always agree with us doesn't mean they

are wrong -

> > its just how they were trained. my endo wouldn't give me armour

and

> > explained why and being in the medical profession myself i

couldn't argue

> > with her - i'm not sure if i were in her shoes if i wouldn't have

done the

> > same thing - armour is not approved by the endocrinology society

as a group

> > and she is standing with them - i've had dr's who would give me

anything i

> > asked for but i didn't have faith in them - i could tell they

didn't know

> > what they were talking about - i even started playing games with

this one dr

> > and asking for things i KNEW i shouldn't have and he gave them to

me ---

> > needless to say i don't go there anymore - then i have a obgyn

who knows her

> > S*** but doesn't have what i consider a great bedside manner -

but she saved

> > both my children - and thats why i go to her - because she can -

when it

> > comes down to it i'm not there to hold a conversation or have

them tell me

> > what i want to hear or give me whatever i want - i'm going there

for their

> > knowledge and experience that i ddon't have to help me with a

problem. as a

> > RN i always recommend a specialist and then recommend asking ppl

who they

> > go to - then start your search from there.

> > sorry if i'm coming on strong - i'm usually not very verbal but i

guess b/c

> > i work in the field and believe me you learn a lot being on the

other side

> > and it really isn't all bad - in fact most of it is good.

[Guest guest]

, I can't tell you how helpful your perspective/insight is into

understanding all of these interactions, results, etc.

Thanks a million.

-Marina

> No wait and see approach when you have the antibodies because

what's going

> on here is that you not only have these antibodies, but your

thyroid hormone

> is either on it's way to bottoming out, or it's in a low swing of

Hashi's

> right now. Most people say that they actually feel better

somewhere in the

> very upper range (if there truly IS a " normal " range; I have my

doubts) for

> both T4 and T3 Frees. When your T4 drops off, your pituitary

ordinarily

> starts getting signals to increase, and this is part of how the

> autoantibodies do their dirty work. I am not a doctor (just a

bedraggled

> thyroid patient who has come a long long way in treatment,

compared to one

> yr ago), but I am a firm believer in aggressively going after this

> situation by suppressing the TSH downward to below a 1. Some

people don't

> agree with taking the TSH that low, but the truth is that the TSH

is NOT a

> hormone made by the thyroid, but is rather the pituitary hormone

that

> stimulates the thyroid to MAKE thyroid hormone. It is more

important to

> know what the readings will be on your Free T4 and Free T3 because

they

> actually represent the unbound hormone that is ready and available

for the

> body to use, and they represent the hypo, normal, or hyper state

of the

> body. The Totals testing is useless because it is the bound up

hormone that

> will not be used plus the Free hormone. Better to go straight to

the source

> and run the Frees. What your body cell receptors DO with the

hormone to

> accept it into the cells after that is what determines the way you

FEEL. I

> have seen people whose TSHs have been knocked down to a 0.03, and

they still

> do not have enough thyroid hormone available for their cells to

use, mainly

> because their bodies either can't convert T4 to T3 properly, or

all the way,

> or they have a lot of Reverse T3 because their cells have

become/are

> resistant to the entrance of the hormone into the cells. In other

cases,

> the pituitary has a problem with the production of the TSH, PLUS

the thyroid

> has a problem producing the hormone, or can't because there's

something more

> wrong with the pituitary than there is the thyroid. One or both.

This is

> what makes diagnosing thyroid disease with ONLY the TSH and then

following

> treatment using the TSH----makes this so dangerous to a person.

They can't

> get proper treatment because the TSH-only protocol is being used,

or that

> with only a T4 Total, and T3 Total. Another truth is that once

thyroid

> treatment has started, treating by the TSH MUST be out the window

because

> that feedback system has still been distorted by a sick thyroid

and probably

> a sick Hypothalamic-Adrenal Axis, AND the body has become so ill

and

> undernourished with no hormone available (or a low amt

constantly), that now

> the cells peripherally have become very resistant. (This is my

opinion only

> right here, that many of us need BOTH T4 and T3, especially in

these cases).

> It is MUCH more complicated than most doctors would have their

thyroid

> patients to believe. It only becomes overwhelming when a person

doesn't

> have the appropriate understanding of the disease by his/her

doctor, and

> also doesn't have the type of support like this group and others

give.

> There's nothing like having been there! ly, I think we're

much more

> " specialized " because it's our disease, so we know more about it

than most

> doctors do. I won't poo poo a good thyroid doctor, but they have

to have a

> very special interest in the thyroid, so that they have a greater

desire to

> dig deeper into this, or they are thyroid patients themselves and

already

> can " feel our pain " .

>

>

>

>

> Re: Hi - New to the group and to Hashi's

>

>

> > Thanks, and Suuzin for your replies.

> > My first doc didn't test for T3, so I'll make sure to get that

one

> > ordered from my new doctor when I meet him next week.

> >

> > I am not currently on any medication (first doc thought I didn't

> > need treatment), but I've gathered from others' experiences that

I

> > probably should be? Without knowing the T3 levels, it might be

hard

> > to judge... but do you think I should be adament about getting a

> > prescription? Or should I be satisfied with a " wait and see "

> > approach if that's what the new doc recommends as well? Of

course I

> > want my symptoms to go away but I also don't want to medicate

> > unnecessarily.

> >

> > -Marina