Poll of sorts (gross, sorry!)

[Guest guest]

The last couple of weeks I have noticed something more with Hannah

Grace's constipation problem. When I change her diaper and she is

completely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember having that

experience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it is open I

see lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to get it out

and it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find this

familiar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?

Susie ~

[Guest guest]

Are the stools hard? Maybe to large to get out! When you tell her to push, maybe she thinks pushing is to tighten. Sometimes I wonder if some of our kids just dont feel the sensation that normal movement would to naturally move out. Motilitly? Nerve damage would cause possibly no sense the stool needs to move. In reading your post, the first thing that came to mind is it is to large to push out. I sure hope she is able to move! Jennie wrote: The last couple of weeks I have noticed something more with

HannahGrace's constipation problem. When I change her diaper and she iscompletely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember having thatexperience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it is open Isee lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to get it outand it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find thisfamiliar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?Susie ~

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Guest guest]

No, the colon has shrunk, and she does push out bits and pieces. When

she has a normal movement (rare) in the tub it is long and slinder

(about 1 - 1 1/2 inches across). I am about to give her an enema. now

at midnight! Poor thing!

The last couple of weeks I

have noticed something more with Hannah

> Grace's constipation problem. When I change her diaper and she is

> completely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember having that

> experience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it is open I

> see lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to get it out

> and it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find this

> familiar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?

> Susie ~

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

>

[Guest guest]

I think my DS has had similar experiences - particularly recently.

About a week ago, he was in the other room straining and grunting away

(not typical - this is part of this recent bout with rather bad

constipation). I was in the other room thinking " Finally! " and giving

him his 'privacy' - he often likes to be alone and call me when he's

finished. Anyway, then he called out to me and wanted to hold onto me

and was crying out in pain. It surely smelled like he was having a bm

and he said he was finished so we took off his training pants to find

they were empty. I looked at his bottom and saw that his rectum was

open and I just had to ask him to keep pushing and I tried my best to

explain what that meant and put my hand on his abdomen to help him

figure out which muscles to push.

I assumed that at least part of the problem was like what Jennie said,

that he may be confusing pushing with tightening up - especially if he

was sensing it would hurt. I felt like I was coaching him through a

birth! He was able to pass it - very hard, quite large, and some mucus

and blood (which is why I suspect food allergy culprit).

Not sure if this helps you - but maybe really trying to talk her

through relaxing her bottom and pushing from the lower abs, etc.....??

good luck - I hope she goes and you both get some rest tonight!

best,

The last couple of weeks I

> have noticed something more with Hannah

> > Grace's constipation problem. When I change her diaper and she is

> > completely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember having that

> > experience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it is open I

> > see lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to get it out

> > and it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find this

> > familiar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?

> > Susie ~

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Somewhere I read...was it on this list?...about having kids blow bubbles while pushing...wonder if that would help....I think it might help with relaxing those muscles. I'm not sure pushing helps, to be honest. Normally you should never have to push to get poop out. But maybe when there's a motility problem, it becomes necessary to push? Or does pushing make matters worse (which I kind of suspect)?

Bonnie

I think my DS has had similar experiences - particularly recently.

About a week ago, he was in the other room straining and grunting away

(not typical - this is part of this recent bout with rather bad

constipation). I was in the other room thinking " Finally! " and giving

him his 'privacy' - he often likes to be alone and call me when he's

finished. Anyway, then he called out to me and wanted to hold onto me

and was crying out in pain. It surely smelled like he was having a bm

and he said he was finished so we took off his training pants to find

they were empty. I looked at his bottom and saw that his rectum was

open and I just had to ask him to keep pushing and I tried my best to

explain what that meant and put my hand on his abdomen to help him

figure out which muscles to push.

I assumed that at least part of the problem was like what Jennie said,

that he may be confusing pushing with tightening up - especially if he

was sensing it would hurt. I felt like I was coaching him through a

birth! He was able to pass it - very hard, quite large, and some mucus

and blood (which is why I suspect food allergy culprit).

Not sure if this helps you - but maybe really trying to talk her

through relaxing her bottom and pushing from the lower abs, etc.....??

good luck - I hope she goes and you both get some rest tonight!

best,

The last couple of weeks I

> have noticed something more with Hannah

> > Grace's constipation problem. When I change her diaper and she is

> > completely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember having that

> > experience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it is open I

> > see lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to get it out

> > and it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find this

> > familiar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?

> > Susie ~

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I wrote about blowing bubbles to retrain. However, blowing bubbles should happen not only while pushing, but also just sitting on the toilet. It's retraining rectal muscles as well as the brain to use the right pathways.

Re: Re: Poll of sorts (gross, sorry!)

Somewhere I read...was it on this list?...about having kids blow bubbles while pushing...wonder if that would help....I think it might help with relaxing those muscles. I'm not sure pushing helps, to be honest. Normally you should never have to push to get poop out. But maybe when there's a motility problem, it becomes necessary to push? Or does pushing make matters worse (which I kind of suspect)?Bonnie

On Feb 1, 2008 1:46 AM, littlelief <littleliefhotmail> wrote:

I think my DS has had similar experiences - particularly recently. About a week ago, he was in the other room straining and grunting away(not typical - this is part of this recent bout with rather badconstipation). I was in the other room thinking "Finally!" and givinghim his 'privacy' - he often likes to be alone and call me when he'sfinished. Anyway, then he called out to me and wanted to hold onto meand was crying out in pain. It surely smelled like he was having a bmand he said he was finished so we took off his training pants to findthey were empty. I looked at his bottom and saw that his rectum wasopen and I just had to ask him to keep pushing and I tried my best toexplain what that meant and put my hand on his abdomen to help himfigure out which muscles to push.I assumed that at least part of the problem was like what Jennie said,that he may be confusing pushing with tightening up - especially if hewas sensing it would hurt. I felt like I was coaching him through abirth! He was able to pass it - very hard, quite large, and some mucusand blood (which is why I suspect food allergy culprit).Not sure if this helps you - but maybe really trying to talk herthrough relaxing her bottom and pushing from the lower abs, etc.....??good luck - I hope she goes and you both get some rest tonight!best, The last couple of weeks I> have noticed something more with Hannah> > Grace's constipation problem. When I change her diaper and she is> > completely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember having that> > experience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it is open I> > see lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to get it out> > and it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find this> > familiar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?> > Susie ~> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.> >>

[Guest guest]

We have that experience often. Hannah will want to hold on to me, cry

or whimper, the smell will be there (most of the time it is all day

long) and she will only have a smudge out. I have tried to coach

Hannah (and it does feel like you are coaching a mama to be) but she

must not understand how to push.

YOu know, she has never had mucus or blood in her movements unless she

was obviously bleeding from a raw hieny. When she has a lot of

movements they make her raw even though I clean them gently asap and

apply creams. Anyway, since those two are absent from her poop, should

I assume there are no alergies?? *IF* that is the case it would make

my diagnosing much easier.

Susie ~

The last couple of weeks I

> > have noticed something more with Hannah

> > > Grace's constipation problem. When I change her diaper and she is

> > > completely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember having that

> > > experience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it is

open I

> > > see lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to get

it out

> > > and it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find this

> > > familiar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?

> > > Susie ~

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree, you should never have to push. And I do wonder if by doing so

Hannah will be in for Hemroids (sp?) or worse. But it is just so hard

for it to come out. I cring when I think of her feeling like she has

to use the bathroom all day long.

Susie ~

The last couple of weeks I

> > > have noticed something more with Hannah

> > > > Grace's constipation problem. When I change her diaper and she is

> > > > completely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember having

that

> > > > experience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it is

open I

> > > > see lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to get

it out

> > > > and it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find this

> > > > familiar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?

> > > > Susie ~

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have started this, but will work with it full swing in the Spring

when I can let Hannah go around the house with a prefold diaper and a

tee shirt. Right now it is soooo cold and it takes forever to get her

cloths off. So I just have her blow when she is trying to poop.

Susie ~

The last couple of weeks I

> > have noticed something more with Hannah

> > > Grace's constipation problem. When I change her diaper and

she is

> > > completely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember

having that

> > > experience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it

is open I

> > > see lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to

get it out

> > > and it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find this

> > > familiar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?

> > > Susie ~

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sammy gets that when he gets backed up. At 7.5 yrs old, I still stand there and watch because sometimes it hurts so much, he'll tell me he pooped even though he didn't. Talk about a Catch 22...he only creating more of his own problem. Sam had something called a rectal prolapse (actually had it several times). Scared the crap out of me because I'm a CF carrier, and though my late husband tested negative, they can only test for about 285 mutations out of over 800! Thankfully, sweat test came back negative, though a sweat test is not an accurate gauge of whether or not he's a carrier (remember, both parents need to pass the gene for actual CF). Repeated rectal prolapse is a major symptom of CF. In Sammy's case, the rectal prolapse was caused by pushing and pushing huge "fat" poops that were rock hard - a fact that, while disconcerting, is absolutely a

relief. Try using vaseline just around the opening of Grace's rectum...it is possible that she's trying to pass a very hard thick bm and the vaseline will help soften the tissue so that it can pass more easily. When that happens to Sam, it almost looks like he's purposely "sucking" it back in, even though he appears to be pushing. Hope this helps.hsmomus wrote: The last couple of weeks I have noticed something more with HannahGrace's constipation

problem. When I change her diaper and she iscompletely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember having thatexperience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it is open Isee lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to get it outand it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find thisfamiliar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?Susie ~

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Bonnie - thanks for bringing that up. This is probably going to sound terrible

to admit but

I never knew you aren't supposed to push while having a bm. I did know it

wasn't

supposed to require as much pushing and straining as DS goes through at times,

definitely. But, when I gave birth I was told to push like I'm having a bm. So

I guess I

hadn't really thought much about it, it just seemed like he needs to push - but,

as I said, i

know the strenuous pushing can be detrimental.

I'm glad this discussion came up because I do not want to set him up for

hemmroids or

other negative effects of pushing too hard. There are so many things on my mind

and

trying to figure this all out - sometimes I feel like I'm missing the forrest

for the trees.

The last couple of weeks I

> > > > have noticed something more with Hannah

> > > > > Grace's constipation problem. When I change her diaper and she is

> > > > > completely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember having

> that

> > > > > experience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it is

> open I

> > > > > see lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to get

> it out

> > > > > and it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find this

> > > > > familiar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?

> > > > > Susie ~

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

RE: pushing and the poop seeming to get " sucked " back in--I *think* what happens is that kids are not so much pushing as clenching. It's hard to know what pushing means and they often think it means, tense your muscles. Well, tensing your muscles, if the muscle in question is your anal sphincter, will make the opening get smaller, not bigger. Does that make sense? I think this is why in childbirth classes when they have you practice kegels, they will always have you practice the relax part as much as the tensing part. It's hard because (when giving birth) you're trying to relax some muscles while pushing with others. And I think having a BM works the same way. If you push too hard, it can be counterproductive. If you just relax and let the opening get bigger, the sheer weight of one of those massive poops may help it to make its way down (sorry to be so graphic!). And then if pushing is needed, maybe it would be better to focus on breathing. Like those exercises that work the transverse abdominal muscle for new moms--breathing in by letting your belly push out, and then breathing out slowly using your ab muscles to push the air up and out. I think that breathing exercise might have a pushing effect on poop too without causing clenching...

However. This is just my theory! Don't go thinking that I really know what I'm talking about... :-) I will say that when we use this approach with my DD, even though a week's worth of poop may be coming out, she never has any tears or rawness of her bottom afterwards. But for all I know there could be other reasons for that...

Bonnie

Sammy gets that when he gets backed up. At 7.5 yrs old, I still stand there and watch because sometimes it hurts so much, he'll tell me he pooped even though he didn't. Talk about a Catch 22...he only creating more of his own problem.

Sam had something called a rectal prolapse (actually had it several times). Scared the crap out of me because I'm a CF carrier, and though my late husband tested negative, they can only test for about 285 mutations out of over 800! Thankfully, sweat test came back negative, though a sweat test is not an accurate gauge of whether or not he's a carrier (remember, both parents need to pass the gene for actual CF). Repeated rectal prolapse is a major symptom of CF.

In Sammy's case, the rectal prolapse was caused by pushing and pushing huge " fat " poops that were rock hard - a fact that, while disconcerting, is absolutely a

relief. Try using vaseline just around the opening of Grace's rectum...it is possible that she's trying to pass a very hard thick bm and the vaseline will help soften the tissue so that it can pass more easily. When that happens to Sam, it almost looks like he's purposely " sucking " it back in, even though he appears to be pushing.

Hope this helps.hsmomus wrote:

The last couple of weeks I have noticed something more with HannahGrace's constipation

problem. When I change her diaper and she iscompletely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember having thatexperience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it is open Isee lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to get it out

and it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find thisfamiliar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?Susie ~ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

I can't find the exact website I found that had hints for teaching --

but this one isn't bad (ignore the SB reference - it's for all kids

IMO)

Help the child learn to push (bear down) by coughing, blowing a

piece of paper off your hand or blowing a pinwheel

http://www.dhmc.org/webpage.cfm?

site_id=2 & org_id=544 & morg_id=0 & sec_id=0 & gsec_id=28691 & item_id=28866

> >

> > The last couple of weeks I have noticed something more with

Hannah

> > Grace's constipation problem. When I change her diaper and she is

> > completely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember having

that

> > experience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it is

open I

> > see lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to get

it out

> > and it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find this

> > familiar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?

> > Susie ~

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile. Try it

> >

now.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=

Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I've found that when he starts having that problem, I have him sit forward on the toilet putting his feet up on the seat in front of him (a position not unlike that used during childbirth). Works like a charm every time. But even then you need to be careful of prolapse, especially in kids whose insides haven't shrunk back yet.Bonnie Juettner wrote: RE: pushing and the poop seeming to get "sucked" back in--I *think* what happens is that kids are not so much pushing as clenching. It's hard to know what pushing means and

they often think it means, tense your muscles. Well, tensing your muscles, if the muscle in question is your anal sphincter, will make the opening get smaller, not bigger. Does that make sense? I think this is why in childbirth classes when they have you practice kegels, they will always have you practice the relax part as much as the tensing part. It's hard because (when giving birth) you're trying to relax some muscles while pushing with others. And I think having a BM works the same way. If you push too hard, it can be counterproductive. If you just relax and let the opening get bigger, the sheer weight of one of those massive poops may help it to make its way down (sorry to be so graphic!). And then if pushing is needed, maybe it would be better to focus on breathing. Like those exercises that work the transverse abdominal muscle for new moms--breathing in by letting your belly push out, and then breathing out slowly using your ab muscles to push the air up and out. I

think that breathing exercise might have a pushing effect on poop too without causing clenching...However. This is just my theory! Don't go thinking that I really know what I'm talking about... :-) I will say that when we use this approach with my DD, even though a week's worth of poop may be coming out, she never has any tears or rawness of her bottom afterwards. But for all I know there could be other reasons for that... Bonnie On Feb 1, 2008 9:45 AM, Cohen <lbccats> wrote: Sammy gets that when he gets backed up. At 7.5 yrs old, I still stand there and watch because sometimes it hurts so much, he'll tell me he pooped even though he didn't. Talk about a Catch 22...he only

creating more of his own problem. Sam had something called a rectal prolapse (actually had it several times). Scared the crap out of me because I'm a CF carrier, and though my late husband tested negative, they can only test for about 285 mutations out of over 800! Thankfully, sweat test came back negative, though a sweat test is not an accurate gauge of whether or not he's a carrier (remember, both parents need to pass the gene for actual CF). Repeated rectal prolapse is a major symptom of CF. In Sammy's case, the rectal prolapse was caused by pushing and pushing huge "fat" poops that were rock hard - a fact that, while disconcerting, is absolutely a relief. Try using vaseline just around the opening of Grace's rectum...it is possible that she's trying to pass a very hard thick bm and the vaseline will help soften the tissue so that it can pass more

easily. When that happens to Sam, it almost looks like he's purposely "sucking" it back in, even though he appears to be pushing. Hope this helps. hsmomus <hsmommie> wrote: The last couple of weeks I have noticed something more with HannahGrace's constipation problem. When I change her diaper and she iscompletely relaxed her rectum is open. I don't remember having thatexperience before with any of my other kiddos. And while it is open Isee lots of poop just sitting there. I tell her to push to get it outand it closes when she attempts to push! Anyone here find thisfamiliar? If so, does it sound like confused muscles?Susie ~ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.