Re: Re: Hello, newbie here

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-------------- Original message from "suuzin" : -------------- Hi there and welcome.. it would be great to knowyour name?

My name is Copeland...old family name from MS.

============================================================In short... from what you've told me, your suspicionsare right on the money -- these doctors are idiots!!What an outrageous ordeal, I'm so sorry.1 - If she has a high TPO, she has Hashimotos. If she hasHashimotos, she may swing hypo or hyperthyroid.. but will eventually end up hypo. From her symptoms, she certainly sounds hypo already as you suspected.

Again...Duh...LOL...sorry

===========================================2 - Did this guy test her TSH, free T4 or free T3?? You don't say he did, which I find astounding. Even the mostincompetent endos tend to test these... most put way too much emphasis on the TSH which can easily get skewed for us (see article in our Links section).. but all these testsare done to form a baseline for diagnosing what state ofthe disease your ex is in. The best docs know that the only true measure to go by is how a patient feels.

She tests normal on all these other tests...having Lyme and CFIDS, they always test my thyroid just in case thyroid supplementation helps....so I am familiar with the tests. She is completely normal testwise *except* for the TPOab...which, as you know, you have to go by how the patient *feels* and the fact that a high TPOab means 95% of the patients go hypo.

====================================================================3 - I think I remember someone on here saying that we are indeed more prone to sleep apnea?? I just rememberthe discussion... hypothryoidism affects every organ in the body, including lungs... maybe that is why your endo tested for Hashis, but it's an odd correlation to make straight off -- are you sure he didn't test because of her fatigue and other symptoms?

It was the ENT who ordered the thyroid test and the TPOab test...really not sure why...my quasi-girlfriend has not learned yet to ask the right questions, though I have tried to help her with that.

==========================================================4 - I haven't a clue what this guy was thinking giving hermeds for hyperthyroidism if the TSH, free T4 and free T3 weren't done and she wasn't having symptoms. That is justdangerous. As far as the fish oil, B12 shots and multivitamins..the only one in that group that I've heard others discuss is theB12. And someone in here actually takes it to improve her condition. I know B12 is a funny vitamin though and affects everyone differently.. I have a suspicion that my Hashi's makesme less tolerant to it because of it being in things I've triedthat make me feel not so good.

The first endo was giving her meds for hyper, which thankfully, I got her to stop and see another endo, who apparently is nearly as clueless.

==============================================================5 - Referring her to psychiatrist because of his abject incompetence is beyond ludicrous.

Duh again....I know, it's ridiculous to me...treat the core thyroid problem, and, if she does not improve, *then* you might treat for depression, not the other way around. All anti-depressants would do at this point is muddy the water, as far as I can tell.

=======================================================6 - She desperately needs a new doctor (not even necessarilyan endo... I see a GP). Look in the archives here and you willquickly see that few of us have had really great experiencesright off the bat with endos, but yours really take the cake.Go to www.thyroid-info.com and click on Top Docs to find a patient-reviewed doc for her in her area. This isn't full-proof,but a good place to start. I don't know anything about her Tranverse Myeletis, but she certainly sounds extremely hypoto me, and these damn docs don't understand this is nothingto fool around with. If she is as hypo as she sounds, she needsmeds, now.

I may just send her to my DO, whose sister has Hashimoto's...at least she is a Doctor who has family with it...and her test panel on me was from Great Smokies lab, which I understand to be good at adrenal tests. And the test panel was complete.

================================================================I really hope you can help her and things iron out for the both of you. Untreated Hashi's can indeed make us swing emotionallypretty bad, so there is hope if she starts treatment. Ask her to drop in here any time, if she needs to hear it from us.

Unfortunately, she does not have the curiousity or attitude that I do that you must pursue your own improvement in health to get better...she would never do an online group. I am doing this cause I happen to be a good guy, in hopes that the Hashimotos's is a major part of our problem and it can be corrected....if not, I have to move on. But I want to give it my best shot....if not, 45 single male with no children is available

Thanks so much. I hope to hear more from the group on this, and I will check out the archives.

================================================================~ -- In Thyroiditis , copeland.cole@a... wrote:> I wanted to introduce myself to the group and ask for some guidance.> > My quasi-girlfriend (probably due to Hashimoto's) has been diagnosed with Hashimoto's. She had been experiencing many of the symptoms of hypothyroidism (fatigue, lethargy, weight gain, depression, low heart rate, emotional problems, etc.), and I finally got her to go to an endorinologist.> > Let me say that I, unfortunately, have had much experience with chronic illness and dealing with the medical community. I contracted Lyme Disease in the early 1990's and was misdiagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome (CFIDS) until finally testing positive for Lyme in 1997. By that point, the infection had been in my body so long that I actually *did* have immune dysfunction which continues to this day. So I know a lot about the inabilitiy of the medical community to diagnosis and correctly treat illness.> > The first test that suggested any problem was an extremely high TPO-ab reading (750+) that was ordered by her ENT. I still don't know why he ordered the test, as she was preparing to have surgery for a deviated septum and other nasal and sinus problems that were causing a severe case of sleep apnea. This led me to suggest she see an endo after a little Googling and reading about the fact that 95% of patients with high TPOab readings develop hypothyroidism. > > The first endo, believe it or not, gave her thyroid medication for hyperthyroidism!! I begged her to stop taking it after about a month or so as her condition grew worse. My laymen's opinion can be described in one work....Duh.> > She did improve a great deal after stopping this medication. Again.....Duh.> > She then saw another endo, who did an ultrasound on her thyroid and found a goiter. Now, he confirms she has Hashimoto's. This is where it gets funny and I hope I can get input from the group.> > He does not prescribe any medication. He tells her to discontinue *any* fish oil (for her heart), B12 shots (her immune system is dysfunctional also due to Tranverse Myeletis....she was misdiagnosed with MS...do you see a pattern here?), and *any* multi-vitamins!!!!!!! > > Can anyone tell me what this doctor is thinking???? She is not scheduled for another appointment until February. In addition, he advised her to see a psychiatrist, I suppose to get anti-depression medication. Now, wouldn't it make sense to treat her thyroid first to see if any of her emotional problems are caused by the Hashimoto's??? Along with that, he advised her to go to a Landmark Research class, which seems to be some form of improvement / self-esteem course, but she described as being like a "cult" after speaking with a representative.> > As you may have guessed, she and I have dealt with *many* incompetent doctors in our medical journeys. The only reason we found out she did not have MS is that I used to volunteer for the MS Society and I knew that her symptoms did not suggest MS, though there was some overlap.So, I have very little faith in doctors these days unless you can lead them down the path. I am afraid that this physician is delaying treatment, for what reason I have no idea.> > I believe this Hashimoto has damaged our relationship, perhaps beyond repair. She was prone to irrational rages, jealousy, anger, physical fighting, etc. which really made it hard to stay close to her. At this point, I have moved out, but still see her as needed and just try to help her since her surgery. Trust me, I know how it feels to be sick and have a non-supportive wife (now ex). I just try to draw the line now.> > *Any* input would be welcome. I thank all of you in advance for your help, and I hope each and every one of you can offer at least a short response. Too many of these groups (again from experience) have everyone reading and no one responding. I need your feedback.*Note: Information is freely exchanged on this board based on patient experiences, and should not be considered a medical recommendation.

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Well, she has agreed to see my DO to check her out, the one whose sister has Hashimoto's.

And the panel she runs is also from Great Smokies Lab, and includes TSH, Free T4, Free T3, Reverse T3, Anti-TG, Anti-TPO......anything else she needs? That seems to be a pretty comprehensive panel.

BTW, I am trying Armour 30mg, just to see if I have anything subclinical that is causing my fatigue. Can't hurt.

I think my doc will jump on it and start some treatment. I can't figure out what this other doctor is up to. He wants her to stop all fish oil, all vitamins, all B12, and doesn't see her til mid-February. Even the book *he* wrote, says that she should start hormone replacement in her case. Again, I dont' get it unless he is thinking that the vitamins, etc. would affect the readings.

Do you think that panel is good?

-------------- Original message from "suuzin" : -------------- Copeland -- did the docs test her *frees* as opposedto *totals*? Free T4 and T3 give a more accurate ideaof what's going on compared to total T4 and T3.. mostdocs test totals.In any case, it doesn't make an ounce of difference ifall tests are normal... subclinical hypothyroidism doesexist and needs to be treated. You've got to go by howyou feel, especially if those antibodies are high. It's a shame she won't open her mind to this possibility... severe hypothyroidism can be serious, not to scare you,it's often not as damaging long term as severe hyper-thyroidism, but like I said it's nothing to fool around with.You mentioned trying to get her to see a doc whose hasfamily members w/Hashis... that is an excellent idea, asthat's usually when docs start to appreciate how complexit can get... even a family pet w/Hashis can be our best allies ~ > > -------------- Original message from "suuzin" <suuzin@y...>: -------------- > > She tests normal on all these other tests...having Lyme and CFIDS, they always test my thyroid just in case thyroid supplementation helps....so I am familiar with the tests. She is completely normal testwise *except* for the TPOab...which, as you know, you have to go by how the patient *feels* and the fact that a high TPOab means 95% of the patients go hypo.*Note: Information is freely exchanged on this board based on patient experiences, and should not be considered a medical recommendation.

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Dr. Sheldon feld, "Could it Be My Thyroid?" ...a lot seems to make sense, it's just his treatment of her I don't understand.

-------------- Original message from "suuzin" : -------------- Yep, that panel is good. Be careful with the Armour.. it actually can hurt if yourbody doesn't really need it... just be sensitive to the symptoms of goinghyper... that is a fairly low dose though.I can't see why those vitamins would affect thyroid readings and never heard of such a thing. What book did this guywrite?~ > Well, she has agreed to see my DO to check her out, the one whose sister has Hashimoto's.> > And the panel she runs is also from Great Smokies Lab, and includes TSH, Free T4, Free T3, Reverse T3, Anti-TG, Anti-TPO......anything else she needs? That seems to be a pretty comprehensive panel.> > BTW, I am trying Armour 30mg, just to see if I have anything subclinical that is causing my fatigue. Can't hurt.*Note: Information is freely exchanged on this board based on patient experiences, and should not be considered a medical recommendation.