Re: Transdermal Absorption

[Guest guest]

, thanks again for a very clear explanation of how the skin works.

There will always be those who believe differently

Personally, we use a lot of emu oil and love it. I think it's a great

product for topical applications and I'm a firm believer in doing everything

we can to improve our appearance from the outside, the surface level, and

leave the the rest to the medical and/or health professions.

Jan Flood oakridge@...

www.oakridgefarm.com

[Guest guest]

> As always please feel free to contact me either on-list or off to

> discuss this further.

, discussing this off list defeats the purpose of the list which is to

teach all members, not a select few. There are close to 1,100 members on the

list that I am sure want and would benefit from this information.

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/

[Guest guest]

thank you kevin! question below:

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

>Recently I responded to a question about the absorption of oils on the

>skin and stated that in short they do not and cannot cross the dermal

>barrier. I have been questioned about that and want to expand on my

>earlier answer.

>

>The skin is the largest organ on the body and its primary function is to

>act as a barrier to keep the outside out and the inside in.

<snip>

i do understand the large molecule vs. small molecule concept so now i'm

wondering where water and soluble salts fit in that size range, and if there are

specific alcohols that *don't* pass through?

~risa

[Guest guest]

> > As always please feel free to contact me either on-list or off to

> > discuss this further.

>

> , discussing this off list defeats the purpose of the list

which is to

> teach all members, not a select few. There are close to 1,100

members on the

> list that I am sure want and would benefit from this information.

>

> Pat.

>

Pat,

Of course you are correct in that those wanting more information

should contact me through the list. I make this statement for those

that may need information that is confidential to their proprietary

formula and not to subvert the purpose of the list.

Later I will address skin lightening, hydroquinone and alternatives.

I am at work now and really do not have the time to explain in any

depth now. This is another facinating subject.

Young

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynne.

I want to make sure

> I understand what is saying.

>

> Our skin is a barrier and it keeps all things out of our system; is this

> right?

Not " all " things, otherwise we wouldn't have nicotine patches or

birth-control patches. What he did say was that base oils do not pass

through the dermal barrier. See his emails for more detail.

This is a very important subject for many of our members because many have a

tendency to believe what they hear/read from a reseller without question, or

believe what they read on other web sites. This is how mis-information gets

spread around and gathers steam. Unfortunately, this information ends up on

some of our members websites. This my friends is considered false

advertising and carries some very stiff penalties. Ignorance isn't an excuse

when the regulatory agencies come after you. I am all for cosmetic claims.

If necessary I believe you should push it all the way to the line. However

don't cross the line into lying because it is not worth the trouble it can

cause you. I know some of you will not be happy to hear your base

oils-including the high priced ones-don't penetrate the dermal layer. This

list gives you the truth, and as Maurice says, " the truth will set you

free " .

While everyone is checking out their web sites to see if they inadvertently

made a false claim, I suggest you also look at vitamin claims in base oils.

This one cost me time and money. I believed a claim from a source I thought

reliable that a specific base oil had several vitamins in it. I got as far

as designing and printing some labels. My gut kept telling me to check this

out further before using the labels. I managed to dig up a COA on that

particular oil and sure enough, only one of the three vitamins mentioned

were present. Maurice was kind enough to upload some COA's to the files

section several months ago. It is not a complete list but it is a good

starting place.

I need to point out that there are many good resellers that have always gone

to the limit to give accurate information. There are also resellers that

have/had false information on their websites that believe/d it to be

accurate. Like you, they are ultimately responsible for what they advertise

on their sites and while some changed the information when it was pointed

out to them, the fact remains that it should not have been on their sites to

begin with. I tend to think the best of people so when a site is changed to

reflect the truth, I take it that a mistake was made originally.

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

It is not so much that Wintergreen oil is absorbed into the skin as it

is that the components of Wintergreen can react with specific receptors

in the skin and cause adverse reactions. This is part of the

fundamentals to irritation and allergy. That will be the topic for

another discussion on another day/night.

Young

KY Labs

Innovators of Fine Personal Products

www.kylabs.com

Re: Transdermal absorption

Because I'm at school, I can't copy and paste snippets, but I want to

make sure

I understand what is saying.

Our skin is a barrier and it keeps all things out of our system; is this

right? Wasn't there a discussion just a couple of months ago about

Wintergreen

or Wintermint essential oil not being used because of it's absorbing

into the

skin? Can we have it both ways?

I realize I'm just an uninformed person and need lots of information

yet, but I

really am trying to understand what is and what isn't. Color me blank

faced.

, I really do understand being so busy. My office computer went

down in

August and after replacing the harddrive, the modem went out and then

the CD-

Write. I really did not have a computer to do business on until

November and

that is the busy time of the year. I'm still trying to do books for

taxes.

I've been praying for snow days so school will be out and I can get some

more

information entered in the computer.

Lynne Greenfield

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[Guest guest]

Dee,

The OSHA warning that you refer go to the irritation, allergy, corrosive

etc properties of certain materials and not to their 'absorption'. As I

have stated there is no absorption. At best there is adsorption. Note

the spelling difference here. Adsorption is the surface adhesion of a

substance while absorption is subsurface. True there are some materials

that may transport into the epidermal layers of the skin but not the

dermal layers. The epidermis is all dead tissue while the dermis is the

live tissue. Certain chemicals may reach the dermis where they create a

reaction such as a blister but most do not cross into the blood stream.

For every rule or generality you can always find exceptions. I am not

going to try to say that this material or that material cannot cause

specific reactions; what I am saying is that the purpose of the skin is

to protect the body from all foreign substances. Sure there are poisons

that can kill you on contact but again this is the exception.

Young

KY Labs

Innovators of Fine Personal Products

www.kylabs.com

Re: Transdermal Absorption

If I understand your explanation of thought you are agreeing the some

things do absorb into past the skin barrier, since there are numerous

OSHA precautions regarding safety washing off the skin should one get a

spill on it, but that fats are not likely to do anything more than

absorb to the last barrier. I think we all agree that some oils soak in

better than others. With this in mind Emu oil would still be a good

carrier oil for

certain components of a cosmetic. No?

Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc

http://www.hpsoapbook.com

[Guest guest]

<<<<The OSHA warning that you refer go to the irritation, allergy, corrosive

etc properties of certain materials and not to their 'absorption'. As I

have stated there is no absorption. >>>

I dare say doctors (medication patches) and some European

balneoscientists would disagree.

Clinical studies were done on the abilty of the skin to absorb

herbal preparations (the real herbs) in a bath. The person

being tested was prepped in such a way that they could not

have particle enter the body by means of inhalation. Blood was

draw from the subjects at intervals and I believe that it only

took 10 minutes for the constituents of the herbs to show up in

the blood samples of the subjects.

I will would be happy to pull out that study and post it to the

list if you like, but I would need to find which disk it is on.

Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc

http://www.hpsoapbook.com

[Guest guest]

Please post it Dee.

> Clinical studies were done on the abilty of the skin to absorb

> herbal preparations (the real herbs) in a bath.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the explanation about the difference between " absorption "

and " adsorption " it did help me a little. And my mother said I couldn't learn

anything new past the age of -oops almost gave that one away.

Young

KY Labs said

" I know that this would certainly liven up the list for a while. :>) "

Now I know why I stay on this list. It does make my day lively.

Lynne Greenfield

[Guest guest]

This is very interesting if you can muddle throught it:

http://publib.upol.cz/~obd/fulltext/medic141/Biomedical_Papers141_06.pdf

Just some fuel for the fire,

Ellen

[Guest guest]

<<<This is very interesting if you can muddle throught it:

http://publib.upol.cz/~obd/fulltext/medic141/Biomedical_Papers141_06.pdf

The visual of tiny little rats laying on their backs having their tummy shaved

sure with tiny electrical animal clippers was a hoot and a hollar. LOL

But with a test such as this I would want to know what the differences

are between rat skin and human skin since they are much tinier creatures.

It has been shown that what works for the rat, or does not work, does

not always coincide with how humans respond. = )

Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

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