kefiili/ was: Re: lunch box ideas

[Guest guest]

Gosh,

I've always used raw milk for kefir and never had a problem, kefir and kefilli (which is a hybrid of Kefir and VIlli cultures) for that matter are living cultures and so the product can depend on the conditions. Length of time of culturing, temperature (and I'm sure milk source) will all change the end product and it can take a while to get the hang of changing these to get the consistency you want. I can get my kefir very mild and thin or quite thick and mild or sour by varying these various factors - length of culture and temperature ( I don't change my milk source it's always raw). Also the culture will change with seasons somewhat it seems. It stands to reason that it might respond to various other influences such as music as plants do however I have never experimented with this, has anyone else noticed anything that changes the character of their cultured milk products?

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-----Original Message-----From: Delano Eaton Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 10:18 PM

---Certainly don't want to mislead anyone and you are right with whatyou say. I should have explained a little further. Using raw milk isnot a choice for a lot of us as we don't have a source of raw milk. Ihave a good source but it is 5 hours away, so would not always befresh for my kefiili making. Using raw milk doesn't always work eitherbecause the success of the kefiring depends a lot on the milk...fresh,location etc. Quote from Heidi:"The fact that it isn't raw is not abig issue-whatever happens during pasturization probably gets undonewith the kefiring process (all the proteins get hydrolyzed and goodbacteria get added back in)." Yes, using raw milk can work but be sureyou save some grains while you are experimenting. I did experimentwith my raw milk and it did not work.---Del

[Guest guest]

Hi Del,

Actually, it doesn't seem to matter, I do it with fresh milk and often if I have some milk that is at the end of it's shelf life that I haven't used (before it goes sour though) I'll just make a big batch of kefir with it to prevent wasting it. I think grains do differ though and that the culture composition can shift depending on the present variables. My current grains that I got from GEM cultures generally make a milder kefir than some grains I had a number of years ago (I lost those accidently). The kefir has a stretchier feel to it (sort of a little villi like but not so pronounced), I don't culture kefilli directly anymore and haven't had a villi culture going for years and years, but my sense is the culture mix of my present grains is different than the one I had in the past-though both have made great kefir. Maybe you could try grains from a different source and see if that made any difference.

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-----Original Message-----From: Delano Eaton Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 8:45 AMTo: RawDairy Subject: kefiili/ was: Re: lunch box ideas,You didn't mention if you need the raw milk to be fresh for a good batch of kefir. Do you think that plays a part? Also I did try to make kefiili with my raw milk and it wasn't for just one try. I kept doing it every day for at least 2 weeks before I gave up and decided it was not going to be for me.Del

[Guest guest]

Del,

Why don't you split your grains in half and keep doing whatever you're doing that you like with one half--if the final product is just the right consistency be sure to decrease the milk proportionally to how much you decrease the grains.

Then experiment with the other half.. I don't know how to go from kefilli back to standard kefir but the slimyness sure sounds like a villi trait--pure villi (what Heidi accidently mixed with her kefir to get kefilli) comes out very slimy and stretchy sort of, although I always liked the taste. Not sure about the blueish tint. Did it taste yuchy or spoiled? It's kind of hard to spoil kefir, it usually just gets more sour. Kefilli I don't keep any more so I'm not sure what happens when you ferment that longer although I'm sure it is quite edible.

If you culture kefir grains in milk for a long time (oh heck days and days and days) it doesn't hurt the kefir grains and you just get a much more sour and usually thicker product--and eventually the whey starts to separate out and you say, "hurray, lots of nice tart kefir whey to play with" and plop the grains back into some more milk and do something else--like see what happens if you ferment them colder or warmer or for less time. It's pretty hard to kill kefir grains unless you accidently dump them out (don't ask me how I know that).

Let the playing begin,

kefiili/ was: Re: lunch box ideas> > > ,> You didn't mention if you need the raw milk to be fresh for a good> batch of kefir. Do you think that plays a part? Also I did try to> make kefiili with my raw milk and it wasn't for just one try. I kept> doing it every day for at least 2 weeks before I gave up and decided> it was not going to be for me.> > DelPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Check out these links!Midvalleyvu Farms http://www.midvalleyvu.comThe Weston A. Price Foundation: http://www.westonaprice.orgThe Untold Story of Milk http://www.drrons.com/untoldstoryofmilk.htmlPlease visit our Raw Dairy files for a wealth of information:FILES: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Database: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/databaseRecipes: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/database?method=reportRows & tbl=1Contact List: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/database?method=reportRows & tbl=2Photos: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/lst

[Guest guest]

Well now, I already did what you are suggesting. I didn't split them

in half, I just took about an inch and half size and put a little raw

milk with it and set it out for 24 hours. It was slimy with a slight

blue tint and also had strands like my kefiili but tasted awful!

(Slimy and strands are not the same) I don't really know it it was

spoiled althought I doubt it was. I think it was just the way it was

going to turn out with the raw milk. I kept repeating it every 24

hours for about 2 weeks in hopes that it might change. I also put it

in the fridge to see if that would change it, but it didn't. I will

try again next time I buy milk. Maybe using fresh milk will make a

difference in this case. It would be nice to know what kefir tastes

like and looked like. I have tasted the store bought pasturized stuff

but I don't think that is a good example as made fron raw is probably

much better. I know what happens in cool verses hot weather. Been

there done that! Went on vacation and left my unknowing daughter to

feed my dogs. She was told to give them some kefiili but she used the

one way in the back of the fridge that was my grains! I came back and

had no grains! It was in the middle of summer and 2x's I got more

villi from Heidi and 2x's they would not work. I ended up having to

wait until it got cooler to start again. I sure missed my kefiili!

Moral of the story: get your grains when it is cool!

Del

> > Hi Del,

> > Actually, it doesn't seem to matter, I do it with fresh milk and

> often if I

> > have some milk that is at the end of it's shelf life that I

haven't used

> > (before it goes sour though) I'll just make a big batch of kefir

> with it to

> > prevent wasting it. I think grains do differ though and that the

culture

> > composition can shift depending on the present variables. My

> current grains

> > that I got from GEM cultures generally make a milder kefir than some

> grains

> > I had a number of years ago (I lost those accidently). The

kefir has a

> > stretchier feel to it (sort of a little villi like but not so

> pronounced),

> > I don't culture kefilli directly anymore and haven't had a villi

culture

> > going for years and years, but my sense is the culture mix of my

present

> > grains is different than the one I had in the past-though both

have made

> > great kefir. Maybe you could try grains from a different source and

> see if

> > that made any difference.

> > --

> > kefiili/ was: Re: lunch box ideas

> >

> >

> > ,

> > You didn't mention if you need the raw milk to be fresh for a good

> > batch of kefir. Do you think that plays a part? Also I did try to

> > make kefiili with my raw milk and it wasn't for just one try.

I kept

> > doing it every day for at least 2 weeks before I gave up and

decided

> > it was not going to be for me.

> >

> > Del

>

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

>

> Check out these links!

> Midvalleyvu Farms http://www.midvalleyvu.com

> The Weston A. Price Foundation: http://www.westonaprice.org

> The Untold Story of Milk http://www.drrons.com/untoldstoryofmilk.html

> Please visit our Raw Dairy files for a wealth of information:

> FILES: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

> Database: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/database

> Recipes:

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/database?method=reportRows & tbl

> =1

> Contact List:

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/database?method=reportRows & tbl

> =2

> Photos: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/lst

>