Re: calcium/protein/bones

[Guest guest]

Hey hair-splitting Mike (just teasing :-),

Thanks for that succinct explanation. I love your posts and study them

with great interest. However, if you actually read the article that I

referenced, you will see that the Dr. takes into account all the other

factors you mentioned about osteoporosis, i.e. the refined sugar, soda,

caffeine, smoking, alcohol, magnesium, vitamin D, and lack of weight

bearing exercise. He mentions them all and discusses. The link to the

article is again, http://health101.org/art_osteo.htm . He could be

wrong on some things, and his word is not the final one, but he makes

some really great points. However, you are correct that there is a lot

of confusion about this issue and studies are not clear. Thanks for

your thoughts.

[Guest guest]

> Hey hair-splitting Mike (just teasing :-),

@@@@@@@@

that's a compliment!

@@@@@@@@@@@

He mentions them all and discusses. The link to the

> article is again, http://health101.org/art_osteo.htm . He could be

> wrong on some things, and his word is not the final one, but he

makes

> some really great points.

@@@@@@@@@

you're right i didn't read it, but i just did now, and now i see that

the stuff that is probably wrong (especially overgeneralization,

oversimplification of protein issue) that i attributed to you should

really be attributed to him, so you're an innocent messenger! he

does totally miss the retinol thing, and the milk/US/osteo line is

sloppy rhetoric. it's obvious he's getting all his info second-hand

(me too) and is not an expert on osteo (me neither). a good (better

than others, but not good enough) book about osteo is " preventing and

reversing osteoporosis " by alan gaby (but beware he's a little too

pill-happy). osteo is my biggest health interest and concern because

i don't have much in the way of other health concerns and i'm

planning to live well past 100.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

[Guest guest]

Perhaps some of the confusion can be traced to several observations. 1) Nearly all studies that report adverse health effects of "milk" were performed using commercial, processed (pasteurized, homogenized, and much more) milk. 2) Most of the sources that stress that milk is not good for humans, also stress that animal products in general are not good. 3) If you take the time, you can find numerous studies that show adverse consequences of consuming almost anything (including water); just as you can find numerous studies that show the beneficial consequences of consuming almost anything (including pesticides). Nutrition and physiology is so incredibly complex. [focusing on calcium would require a large book.] And perhaps the most significant aspect of both nutrition and physiology is that the complexity is compounded by the large number of interactions, alternative pathways and homeostatic mechanism that balance all this stuff and usually keep us healthy.

This is why I focus on allowing informed people to make their own decisions on what to eat, or not eat. And related to milk; focused on allowing people who want to drink fresh unprocessed milk to obtain that milk from the dairy farmer of their choice. And currently there is an incredible resistance from many sources that are applying unbelievable resources to prevent that from happening. But there is a growing number of people who are willing to fight to allow those that want to, to be able to obtain unprocessed milk. I know of no better way to counter the influence of those with vast financial resources or carefully nurtured contracts in high places, than with very large numbers of knowledgeable people who are willing to speak out. It is interesting that no matter how carefully you craft objective arguments based on the "most impeccable sources" those with the financial resources can effectively counter or render ineffective all your careful preparation. But when hundreds or thousands of outraged people show up at a hearing, or demonstration; they get heard.

Ted

Re: calcium/protein/bones

Hey hair-splitting Mike (just teasing :-),Thanks for that succinct explanation. I love your posts and study them with great interest. However, if you actually read the article that I referenced, you will see that the Dr. takes into account all the other factors you mentioned about osteoporosis, i.e. the refined sugar, soda, caffeine, smoking, alcohol, magnesium, vitamin D, and lack of weight bearing exercise. He mentions them all and discusses. The link to the article is again, http://health101.org/art_osteo.htm . He could be wrong on some things, and his word is not the final one, but he makes some really great points. However, you are correct that there is a lot of confusion about this issue and studies are not clear. Thanks for your thoughts.To learn more about Raw Dairy, visit our home pages at http://www.midvalleyvu.com

[Guest guest]

Here's a useful article on this topic by Loren Cordain from the

Beyond Veg site: <http://shortLink.us/1852>

It reminds me that the Mg thing is an unresolved biggie I need to

look into more. I think the Ca/Mg thing is the most meaningful

challenge to heavy dairy consumption I've come across, but it's not

clear because the Ca/Mg ratios for milk are about the same as most of

the common greens, although I suppose those aren't typically eaten in

large quantities, whereas milk is. I'm puzzled by the claim of a 1/1

Ca/Mg ratio for pre-agricultural diets.

Here's an optimistic but vague speculation: maybe a high Ca, high

protein diet is okay if the " calcium buffers protein " theory is

correct and this factors out some Ca from the Mg/Ca ratio????

I will look into this more sometime...

Mike

SE Pennsylvania