Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Dear Jan, Am 18.07.2004 um 16:59 schrieb jan: > I'm guilty too - in simply not getting it how incredible the > facilitatior's role is. Giving advice is like administering poison. Could you tell a little about that? And > I suspect the level of compassion necessary to truly facilitate > another is huge - holding that space for another means my (the > facilitator) " ego " must die as I allow their (person doing inquiry) > " Self " to shine through. When I facilitate, I ask myself the questions, too. Because I am the one supposed to listen. And if I don't answer them, there is no one facilitating. But if I do, *I* am the one being facilitated. Thank you, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 > >> >> Hi, Jan. I don't *know* what's up, but I'd guess that folks have >> gotten >> burned out on all the philosophy. I also have observed that during the >> same period, group membership went from over 1600 around the beginning >> of the year down to a little over 1500 in April or May and is now back >> up to 1641. I've wondered what was up with that. >> >> What do you think is going on? >> >> Tom > > Hi Tom- > You could be right - " people are burned out on all the philosophy " . > > I spout philosophy. Therefore Tom is saying people are burned out on > what I am saying...or Tom is saying Tom is burned out on what I am > saying. From my point of view, I *guessed* that it might be that people are burned out on all the philosophy. I didn't say anything about Jan or what she says. I honestly did not have the implications you drew in mind when I wrote my message. > So you believe that a site that simply does " the work " would be more > effective? I'm observing the site " doing the work " and see a > repetitive pattern there also that seems circular in nature and one > step removed from really addressing core issues. What does it mean for a group to be effective? Participating here, and in doing-the-work, has been effective *for me*. I can't say whether it's effective for anyone else. > I also am curious about membership. If the numbers are correct, does > that mean that 1,651 people are receiving daily digests or individual > emails from the group or have most of them opted to receive no emails > and simply read the boards and post if so moved - yet seem to never be > so moved? I ponder all these people receiving emails and never > posting??? I've never counted up the " No emails " , " Daily digests " , and " Individual emails " to see. What thoughts come up for you when you ponder people receiving emails and never posting? > For me, I've lost some of my interest because I couldn't understand > some basics. Inquiry seemed to be removed from having a continuous > point. > > I discovered Margaret 's work and a Chopich's Inner Bonding. > For me without foundational stuff like Inner Bonding or Pathway, > continuously doing " the work " seemed pointless, endless, and lacking > in " permanent " change. Patterns keep repeating themselves. I'm glad you've found approaches that work for you, and I see the repetitive patterns, too. They remind me of the idea that thoughts are recycled. > So I don't know Tom. I only know that actually listening to 's > work on 's cds is so much more powerful than doing the work > here - yet says all you have to do is ask the four questions - > she undermines the facilitator's role of holding a place for a person > to fully come to deep realization. I'm not sure I'm understanding you. How does undermine the facilitator's role? > I don't sense that that is here because there are too many people who > jump in and interfere with that happening. I think I've been guilty > of that. > > So difficult to hold an interchange that requires you to go to the > deepest depths of your being and be facilitated by people who simply > aren't safe to be facilitated by. > > I'm guilty too - in simply not getting it how incredible the > facilitatior's role is. Giving advice is like administering poison. > > I suspect the level of compassion necessary to truly facilitate > another is huge - holding that space for another means my (the > facilitator) " ego " must die as I allow their (person doing inquiry) > " Self " to shine through. > > Just interesting musings - I see how much I still want to hang on the > story that my ego has something to offer, my ego can give advice, my > ego has much value at all... > > So for me I think that when one is looking for Self and they keep > finding ego, interest is lost and people move on. I heard you say above that you've lost some of your interest, and I notice that you're still here. Perhaps some of us are more tenacious than others? > Thanks for asking Tom - Jan Thanks for being here, Jan. I love what you said about the facilitator's role. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Dear Jan, sorry for my answer taking so long. And thank you for answering. I hear what you are saying. > story, you're in your ego and no longer facilitating. This form of > facilitating morps one into a perp. A well meaning perp, but a perp > none the less. Who is the one morped into a perp? Whom is the poison administered to? I love your description of how you would like to be facilitating. It feels *very* warm and loving, and comforting to me. On another post you said: > I notice that people parrot -isms on this board. That seems to > be a fact. How this makes me feel for me is the story. It looks to me like you have to (not " you " , Jan, but *someone* has to) love this story before you can inquire if it is true itself. " should not parrot -isms on this bord. Is it true he shouldn't? (one level of perception) " comes before " parrots -isms. Is that really true that he is parroting? (another level of perception) " . Not as a rule, but rather a If-the-one-way-doesn't-work-it-could-be-easier-to-do-the-other-thing- first advice. Love, Am 21.07.2004 um 01:34 schrieb jan: > wrote: > > Dear Jan, > > > > Am 18.07.2004 um 16:59 schrieb jan: > > > > > I'm guilty too - in simply not getting it how incredible the > > > facilitatior's role is. Giving advice is like administering > poison. > > Could you tell a little about that? > > > > Hi - > Steve Daily posted the official facilitator's mental mind set in > another very recent post. For me, it said it all - thanks Steve. > > When we come to the facilitator table with an agenda (rescuing, > merging, distancing) we aren't really facilitating, we're simply > reinforcing this ancient egoic system. The moment you wish to give > advice, or sympathetically feel the story of the person telling it as > if it were your story, or are so bored or repulsed by the teller's > story, you're in your ego and no longer facilitating. This form of > facilitating morps one into a perp. A well meaning perp, but a perp > none the less. > > That's why facilitating is better to be done on the phone - not on a > board - because facilitating on this board is a very silent process - > therefore the very set up itself is a huge invite to the ego because > we must use language to convey what cannot be captured via language. > > I hope this answers your question. > > Blessings - Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2004 Report Share Posted July 25, 2004 .... >> I'm not sure I'm understanding you. How does undermine the >> facilitator's role? > > Heck says you can give the four questions to have some stranger > on the street read them to you. She falsely suggests that THAT is all > that is required. Well, that's suggested as one option. I haven't heard anything that sounded like, " Get strangers who've never heard of The Work to facilitate you and don't do anything else. " On the contrary, most of the input I've received has been that self-facilitation is all that is required. I've also recently heard from a friend who introduced The Work to her brother by handing him the yellow card with the four questions on it and asking him to read her the questions. He was meeting her at a train station and she was feeling stressed over some aspect of the train ride. She didn't share details, but said it worked out very well. > I did that with a friend of mine and the advice is > STILL being tossed to me...Then she publishes a thing about > facilitator's that Steve Daily posted here which more closely > resonates with who a facilitator should be. So if the stranger is > Jesus or Buddha, you've just found yourself a facilitator that fits > what says is a great facilitator!!!! Yes, I imagine Jesus and Buddha would have made great facilitators. Um, I think Carol was the author of the article Steve posted. > There are no rules here on this board - yet is clear - she has > noticed that a good facilitator has certain qualities. > > This board has an anything goes policy. After all we're here to " love > what is " . > > I guess what I'm saying is that this board by it's very set-up - > writing/cognitive vs. hearing-seeing/feeling, no rules on > facilitating, for me lessens it's ability to be an effective Loving > What Is tool.... Could this system be designed to more effectively > represent katie's work? We could make a lot of rules, but how would we enforce them? The only way I know of is intensive moderation, where someone reads each message before it's sent out to list members and makes a judgement as to whether it falls into the category of " good " facilitation. The two problems I see with that approach are 1) finding someone with the time to screen all the messages, and 2) training the moderators how to make accurate judgements about what constitutes " good " facilitation. Do you have other ideas about how to do this? >> >> I heard you say above that you've lost some of your interest, and I >> notice that you're still here. Perhaps some of us are more tenacious >> than others? > > I'm here, but not in the same sense as I once was. >> >>> Thanks for asking Tom - Jan >> >> Thanks for being here, Jan. I love what you said about the >> facilitator's role. >> >> Tom > > Wasn't what said great too? I loved that post and am thankful > that Steve put it up here for all to see. Yes, I like Carol's article very much too. It's very clear. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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