Guest guest Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 Dear nne, You inquired into my question whether 'everything around me is nothing more than concepts': > .... > How do I react when I think this thought and believe it? > > > Alone in a landscape that is meaningless and empty. > > I go to how it felt when Jan wrote something about how I am all > alone...there is no one else here...well why the heck am I here > then?...I feel so strange inside...wondering why I am here anyway? > > I can't relate to anything around me....I can't love the one who just > walked into the room.... > > In a haunted house with the dead ...totally creeped out! > > Terrified and Loveless > > Can you see a reason to drop this thought? yes > Can you see a reason to keep this thought that is not stressful? no > > What would you be if you could not think this thought Mimi? > Everything around me is nothing more than concepts. > > Free to embrace it all and see it as myself. > The book is me > The boy is me > The pen is me > The chair is me > The sun is me > The moon is me > This is much more fun! > > TA > Everything around me is something more than concepts ....true > > Everything around me is me <smile> > > My thinking believes that everything around me is nothing more than a > concept....I can't really see the world for what it is when I am > separate and judging it.... Somehow your inquiry didn't match my thoughts and feelings, but even after thinking about it for a while, I'm still not sure what it is that doesn't match. Below I give it my best shot. On an intellectual level, I remember saying: " No story, no world. " Doesn't this mean that we can only perceive the world if we have a story? This seems plausible to me, in the light of the theory that only the things that fit into our world view (our 'stories') and that present themselves as within the range of our senses, can be perceived. E.g., UV light is not visible to us, and sounds above 20.000 Hz can not be heard, so we will not have stories about them (we can't like or dislike the 'colour' of UV-light, and we can not have a preference for particular music that is completely above our hearing limits). Also, our crude senses do not perceive the spaces between and within atoms, although everything around us 'contains' much more space than anything else. We might even question whether the 'anything else' is solid in any way .... In fact, our senses may be the source of our concepts. Our senses tell us whether a sound is loud, high, low, muffled, etc. Same for our vision, our touch, etc. Isn't this where our concepts, further molded by some socializing pressures, originate? This 'world view' appears to make sense (!) to me. All this implies to me that only our limited views, stories, sensory ranges determine what there IS for us. It is not Reality. but it is our reality, it is our 'world'. If we were able to see everything as it 'is', who knows what it would be like? Beyond imagination....!! So we should be happy with our petty little concepts, because those are the things that create the world we live in and make it to a seemingly predictable, trustworthy and almost cosy environment. So on an intellectual level, I think the world we perceive is totally made up of our concepts. Anything beyond our concepts is simply impossible to imagine... Knowing this, we can realize that our concepts are _just_ that ... concepts, and probably (?), definitely (?) not related to Reality. This means that any concept is as good as any other, and that to loosen our attachments to particular concepts will help us to choose the concepts that give us the most joy, poised to switch to others if some concept starts to cause us pain. Emotionally I find that, contrary to what your inquiry gave you, the thought that 'everything around us is nothing more than concepts' doesn't necessarily make me feel lonely and loveless. I reason that our concepts make us feel at home in this world, since anything beyond them is just beyond me.... Being without concepts, I don't know...? Can't go there. Any concept that I use is created inside of me, and I am with you when you say that everything around me is 'me', or at least a reflection of something created inside or because of me. Because I am alive, I can use my senses, my senses and some socializing help create my concepts, and these concepts create the kind of world I live in. So it seems true that everything that I perceive is nothing more than concepts. However, to say that 'everything around us is _nothing more_ than concepts,' as I did before, seems to be untrue. There is probably very much there beyond our concepts, but since it is outside our range of concepts and senses, we can't know. Some of it we can know, by inference, using instruments that have other sensitivities than we have and that can report about this world beyond our range of senses (but never beyond the range of our concepts!). Anything beyond those instruments and beyond our concepts is unknown territory and it will be always, unless we totally drop our concepts, but then we will have forgone the world. As in the case of UV-light and sounds above 20.000 Hz and the void within atoms, it seems likely that this unknown territory pervades us already at all times, beyond our concepts and senses. It doesn't seem to hurt us (does it?), so we'd better trust it's OK. Actually, we have no choice. It's as if I'd question the sun's value. As if! No choice there. Ah well, some stories to make 'sense' of the world. Still inquiring, and thankful to you, nne, for providing the opportunity to explore my thoughts on this .... Eva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 I need you to understand me I lack compassion and wisdom We should have the same story to be friends She is defensive I can lose your friendship because of what I write to you. Feeling anxious and uneasy because of what I write to Eva. I see a lovely worksheet here! Thank you Eva.... love, nne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Dear nne, > I need you to understand me I can relate to that! > I lack compassion and wisdom Did this originate from our conversation? I wonder how this came about? > We should have the same story to be friends I can relate to this one too.... The scientific surroundings helped me to learn how to be disagreeing friends, though. But here also we find that birds of a feather flock together. > > She is defensive I can find that, but not sure if it was present in our conversation. I noticed that your description didn't match mine, and I felt like finding out what was true for me. > I can lose your friendship because of what I write to you. Define 'friendship'... > > Feeling anxious and uneasy because of what I write to Eva. And that means that...? > > I see a lovely worksheet here! Thank you Eva.... Did you do your worksheet? Would you like to share? Eva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 > Dear nne, > > > I need you to understand me > > I can relate to that! > > > I lack compassion and wisdom > > Did this originate from our conversation? I wonder how this came > about? > > > We should have the same story to be friends > > I can relate to this one too.... > The scientific surroundings helped me to learn how to be disagreeing > friends, though. But here also we find that birds of a feather flock > together. > > > > > She is defensive > > I can find that, but not sure if it was present in our conversation. > I noticed that your description didn't match mine, and I felt like > finding out what was true for me. > > > I can lose your friendship because of what I write to you. > > Define 'friendship'... > > > > > Feeling anxious and uneasy because of what I write to Eva. > > And that means that...? > > > > > I see a lovely worksheet here! Thank you Eva.... > > Did you do your worksheet? > > Would you like to share? > > Eva Dear Eva, I did a worksheet but I am shy to share it. Thank you for your questions and replies....I have to say that right now there is an internal struggle between the scientist who wants proof and the shaman who doesn't care about proof but just knows.... I AM all that I believe you are...it is so simple....can I embrace that sweet defensive scientist and be my own best friend? And then when I do, I see that you are my best friend who is pointing out where I have errored in believing that any thing is out of order in the world... love nne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 I have to say that right now there is an internal struggle between the scientist who wants proof and the shaman who doesn't care about proof but just knows.... nne Why struggle? There's room enough for them both! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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