Re: Re: work on abandonment, failure

[Guest guest]

Carol,

I enjoyed reading your post. You have a knack for writing, that's for sure.

One thing I'd like to add is that I've seem many depressions go into

remission simply by the changing of diet, association and activity. I had

one client who improved by quiting a job he hated, another stopped eating

sugar and a third moved out of the city into a lake property he inherited

from his father.

Eddie

>

>Reply-To: Loving-what-is

>To: Loving-what-is

>Subject: Re: work on abandonment, failure

>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 03:53:26 -0000

>

>Dear Randy,

>

>I am writing from the perspective of a -- dare I even say it? --

>former depressive. I say former not because I never ever get

>depressed anymore (although I have been depression-free for many

>months now), but because I can no longer define myself in this way.

>When I am not depressed, I am not a " depressive. " I have no proof, you

>see. If the depression returns, I am experiencing depression, but

> " depressive " is no longer who I believe myself to be.

>

>I struggled with The Work for some time - not only was I extremely

>hard on myself ( " I'm not getting it " ), I also wanted it to be a magic

>bullet and in my experience Th Work is not that. When I finally was

>motivated to go in, not simply for relief from suffering but for the

>love of truth, that was when the suffering truly lifted. I was not

> " cooked " by a longshot after my first School, and I returned as a

>repeater after staffing twice. I was much more available the second

>time. I LOVED meeting myself for the first time.

>

>The stories don't stick around for long anymore.

>

>Since that time, as a facilitator, I've worked with a number of

>depressed people, and my experience is that it can take folks like us

>a little longer than others to get comfortable with the idea that

>everything does not suck! The darkness has been such a reliable

>companion for so long that it hurts a bit to say goodbye to it. It can

>be scary to lay down the old security blanket.

>

>What I tell people who are depressed -- I think of them as " my people "

>-- is to try to be gentle with themselves and to trust the process.

>Notice when the " yeah buts " arise. If there is willingness, even just

>a little, the clarity comes in its own good time. What I notice about

> is his willingness to hang in. It's my story that he cannot

>help but succeed because in the willingness he comes to know himself

>better and better. It takes as long as it takes: perfect.

>

>I feel that whether the beliefs come before or as a result of the

>depression is irrelevant (although I think it's accurate). Hanging in

>with The Work undid whatever it was that was the original cause, and I

>didn't have to know exactly what that was. What I know is that the

>truth eventually kicks in, even when I'm clinging tenaciously to being

>(miserably) right. My resistance becomes my friend as it shows me how

>I live my life when I attach to depressive thought-patterns that I

>used to think of as protecting me.

>

>Sometimes if it's raining or it's close to my " time of month, " or I've

>eaten or drunk something that disagrees with my body chemistry, or I

>haven't slept well, the old " biological " depression returns when I

>wake up in the morning, and it feels like I cannot move or face the

>day. What I do in those instances is to let the stories run for a bit,

>then I tell myself, " Sweetheart, it's okay to be depressed. You never

>have to get out of this bed again. " And in a few minutes, I'm up, and

>feeling fine.

>

>Sometimes I think it was never the depression itself, but the warring

>with the depression that was so painful and made life so difficult.

>Trying to eradicate it through therapy, or push it away, or affirm it

>away, or medicate it away, or spiritualize it away was hopeless for

>me. Depression is " what is " sometimes. God is everything but not a

>depressed brain? I don't think so!

>

>Can you embrace your depression, love it, and if not, at least let it

>be? Can you listen to what it is trying to tell you and meet it with

>understanding and compassion for yourself?

>

>Thank you for not giving up, Randy (and whoever else experiences

>depression and does this work). You are me. You are living proof of

>how it's done.

>

>Love, Carol

>

>

> > > ***story, ranting, followed by work! this is long, and there is

> > plenty of complaining, so please do not feel inclined to respond or

> > even read it. i post on here simply because i feel more motivated

> > to 'dig' than i do sitting by myself with a pad of paper. so

> > anyway....

> > >

> > > dear workers,

> > > hello. i am becoming cynical it seems. when my problems and

> > stories and depressions and the general bullshit of life kind of

> > take over, and i think about the work and how it supposedly sets

> > people free, i scoff. i think 'well, not for me apparently'. at

> > best i can take on a grin-and-bare-it kind of mentality. at worst,

> > despair. of course, i don't feel that way all the time--thank god!

> > but rarely do i feel really happy at all. everything is

> > pretty " flat " . and i am accepting it as 'the way it is', and

> > truthfully, i don't like 'the way it is'. my mom is sick and in

> > pain alot of the time (true). my brother is a 25 year-old spoiled

> > brat bully who blames the world and everyone in it for all his self-

> > induced problems (ive done the work here, and i cannot see this

> > story any differently). my dad is a depressed hermit who seems to

> > be simply 'beaten' by life and it's hardships (i can't know this,

> > but from what HE tells me, from the actual words that come from his

> > mouth, this is how he sees things). who's business is this?

> > theirs. does that bring me any sense of peace or happiness?

> > absolutely not. i was once an awkward, confused and hopeless-

> > feeling kid, moved on to become the forward-looking

> > optomistic 'seeker' for a few years, and am now sadly settling into

> > the role of...what? i don't even know. someone who also is

> > beginning to feel defeated, i think. every hope has ended in

> > disappointment, and i feel the work falling into that same catagorie

> > for me. all this and im only 29!

> > > i went to the work website today to see if anything new was

> > going on there. i clicked on the testimonials link and read a bunch

> > of those. all kinds of people using these questions to their great

> > benefit. words

> > like 'free', 'vast', 'happy', 'peace', 'relief', 'unconditional

> > love'. i think one woman said that because of doing the work, she

> > is now 'happier than she ever dared to imagine she could be'. these

> > are the words people are using to describe the results of using

> > these questions. i read this and felt increadible anger and

> > jelousy. i feel left out. i feel lied to. these feelings just

> > rushed to the surface. i have never felt anything but 'well,

> > there's nothing i can do about it, this is reality, might as well

> > not argue with it, this is as good as it gets' from doing the work ,

> > and i have been doing it for close to two years now. okay, that's

> > not true. i do remember one time feeling really, really happy after

> > seeing through a particular belief. but that is the exception to

> > the rule it seems, and im pissed. so that's my story right now, and

> > i would REALLY love to see it as a painful lie.

>

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[Guest guest]

Dear Neo,

Am 12.05.2004 um 01:17 schrieb zenbear01:

>

> > Carol,

> > I enjoyed reading your post. You have a knack for writing, that's

> > for sure.

> > One thing I'd like to add is that I've seem many depressions go

> > into remission simply by the changing of diet, association and

> > activity. I had one client who improved by quiting a job he hated,

> > another stopped eating sugar and a third moved out of the city into

> > a lake property he inherited from his father.

> >

>

> Hey Eddie,

>

> Isn't funny how confused people can get. LOL ...

>

> Someone changes their job and they really think that is what ended

> their depression. Someone stops eating sugar and they think that is

> what ended their depression. How silly is that!

>

> But isn't that the major confusion of most people in the world,

A thought appears: as long as I see that you are confused, I am

confused.

> they

> really believe that something outside of their THOUGHTS can effect

> them. Of course we all know that what ended the depression

We all know they were depressed? I can only talk for myself, can't I?

> of those

> dear sweet people was NOT stopping eating sugar or changing their

> job, it was the fact that they STOPPED believing the depressing

> THOUGHTS running through their head. Don't you just love it, the

> depression ends, then I run the story of how the sugar or the job

> change did it so that I never get to SEE the truth that MY THOUGHTS

> did it!

>

> One of my favorite CDs has a man who tries to explain his wifes

> suicide in terms of chemical imbalance in her brain or a genetic

> predisposition, then cuts in and says that's its still her

> THINKING that caused her suicide whether or not their was a chemical

> imbalance or genetic error. LOL ... I do love 's clarity.

Yes, that was a good one. Very deep and touching.

> Loving what is, Eddie, and that would be you.

>

>

> Neo

Love,

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/12/2004 1:35:12 PM US Eastern Standard Time,

catherine.snider@... writes:

:

Thank you so much for sharing this with us.

no problem. like i said, i do it more for me. i don't tend to dig very deep

when im doing the work in complete privacy. when i come here, it's like

being in the spotlight where im much more inclined to give it all ive got. *im

in

a band, so no suprise there!

Question: Do you live at home with your parents? If so, you may want to

examine the reasons you do so and see if the story is working for you.

answer: no, ive got a house of my own. but i come by often to see how my

mom and brother are doing. honestly, they usually seem to be doing pretty good.

when my mom's illness flares up, or my brother is in some kind of a funk (he

tends to get mean when he's upset about something), the uncomfortable

feelings i get can really blow things out of proportion for me. it seems

permanent.

i get sucked in.

I want to encourage you to continue to work with this story for a while.

You've

got a lot going on that needs to be examined. I guess I'm saying this to

myself

as well. I tend to think " Okay, worked with that one " and stop, when really I

still

have a long way to go. So don't make the mistake I do!

too late! ive done it a hundred times! ha ha. yeah, i want instant

gratification. if i don't notice results after one (two at most) time,

well...god

abandoned me! it's amazing that when i see people being really dramatic about

something i consider trivial, i get all turned off. im full of drama. i just

like to come off like im johnny-cool. thats why i treasure this group. no one

knows i come here (very uncool), but i can, and i do, and if anything it is

an outlet for me to be very honest. which i deeply, DEEPLY appreciate.

I've been to one Workshop Intensive so far. In it, had us take our

belief,

turn it around, then come up with three or more reasons why the turnaround

was true.

Take your belief " I am a failure "

Turn it around to " I am a success "

Now list all the reasons and things you've done that show your success side.

Post them to the list, if you are comfortable with that.

okay. I am a success.

1. i worked out this morning. it was the last thing i felt like doing, but

i always feel good afterwards. so i succeeded in doing something good for me.

2. i have been finding myself to be more comfortable around people i have

only just met. this is a big deal to me. ive been cripplingly shy my whole

life.

3. i succeeded in hanging out with my brother and mom last night without

getting up-tight and worried about them once! that's pretty cool. i did'nt

even

notice it!

thank you . i appreceate the feedback.

love,

jeremy

[Guest guest]

Carol,

I think a big problem with giving advice is we tend to think what worked for

us will work for everyone (one answer; one truth) when in fact, there are

many solutions to one type of problem depending on many factors--one being

individual perception or reality. For instance, I had one client who tried

everything to rid herself of the debilitating depression that was preventing

her from doing the work she loved and the socialization with the people she

cared about. She was relieved of the " black dog " when she learned how to

stop the internal SELF-DOWNING dialogue that was playing inside her head

(sometimes so quietly it was hardly detectable). She learned to accept and

even cherish her personal foibles. And she learned to love living an

imperfect life.

I had another client who was a devout spiritual seeker of enlightenment. We

discussed the levels of consciousness involved in his search. When he

identified the level he was actually on (not the one he desired) and he

learned to live in that level 100%, he discovered he no longer had periods

of depression. He was able to live in the present and not in the future of

his desires. He still read spiritual books and attended workshops, but he

did those things with full acceptance of who he was and what he was capable

of living at any particular moment.

Love,

Eddie

>

>Reply-To: Loving-what-is

>To: Loving-what-is

>Subject: Re: work on abandonment, failure

>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:11:20 -0000

>

>Yes, Eddie, sometimes it's that simple...a change of scene, a change

>of diet. (Food allergies can induce depression as well as too many

>chemically-enhanced processed foods, etc.) And for the rest of us,

>there are things we can do.

>

>My moods used to wax and wane with the seasonal light (or lack

>thereof). Then I discovered that S.A.D. was yet another concept when

>I woke up one dark morning in December, after being in The Work for

>awhile, and realized I had forgotten to be depressed all fall!

>

>Here's the thing: S.A.D., claustrophia, dysthymia, PTSD, ADD, FBI,

>CIA, TNT...sometimes we just love our psychological diagnoses, they

>explain away so much of what feels hopeless in our lives. They serve

>until they don't. I reached a point where I did not want or need that

>identification anymore.

>

>All this is a fancy way of saying that until I can be happy in a dark

>enclosed room with a diet of only refined sugar...perhaps my work's

>not done? :-)

>

>Love, Carol

>

>

>

> > > > > ***story, ranting, followed by work! this is long, and there

>is

> > > > plenty of complaining, so please do not feel inclined to

>respond or

> > > > even read it. i post on here simply because i feel more

>motivated

> > > > to 'dig' than i do sitting by myself with a pad of paper. so

> > > > anyway....

> > > > >

> > > > > dear workers,

> > > > > hello. i am becoming cynical it seems. when my problems and

> > > > stories and depressions and the general bullshit of life kind of

> > > > take over, and i think about the work and how it supposedly sets

> > > > people free, i scoff. i think 'well, not for me apparently'.

>at

> > > > best i can take on a grin-and-bare-it kind of mentality. at

>worst,

> > > > despair. of course, i don't feel that way all the time--thank

>god!

> > > > but rarely do i feel really happy at all. everything is

> > > > pretty " flat " . and i am accepting it as 'the way it is', and

> > > > truthfully, i don't like 'the way it is'. my mom is sick and in

> > > > pain alot of the time (true). my brother is a 25 year-old

>spoiled

> > > > brat bully who blames the world and everyone in it for all his

>self-

> > > > induced problems (ive done the work here, and i cannot see this

> > > > story any differently). my dad is a depressed hermit who seems

>to

> > > > be simply 'beaten' by life and it's hardships (i can't know

>this,

> > > > but from what HE tells me, from the actual words that come from

>his

> > > > mouth, this is how he sees things). who's business is this?

> > > > theirs. does that bring me any sense of peace or happiness?

> > > > absolutely not. i was once an awkward, confused and hopeless-

> > > > feeling kid, moved on to become the forward-looking

> > > > optomistic 'seeker' for a few years, and am now sadly settling

>into

> > > > the role of...what? i don't even know. someone who also is

> > > > beginning to feel defeated, i think. every hope has ended in

> > > > disappointment, and i feel the work falling into that same

>catagorie

> > > > for me. all this and im only 29!

> > > > > i went to the work website today to see if anything new

>was

> > > > going on there. i clicked on the testimonials link and read a

>bunch

> > > > of those. all kinds of people using these questions to their

>great

> > > > benefit. words

> > > > like 'free', 'vast', 'happy', 'peace', 'relief', 'unconditional

> > > > love'. i think one woman said that because of doing the work,

>she

> > > > is now 'happier than she ever dared to imagine she could be'.

>these

> > > > are the words people are using to describe the results of using

> > > > these questions. i read this and felt increadible anger and

> > > > jelousy. i feel left out. i feel lied to. these feelings just

> > > > rushed to the surface. i have never felt anything but 'well,

> > > > there's nothing i can do about it, this is reality, might as

>well

> > > > not argue with it, this is as good as it gets' from doing the

>work ,

> > > > and i have been doing it for close to two years now. okay,

>that's

> > > > not true. i do remember one time feeling really, really happy

>after

> > > > seeing through a particular belief. but that is the exception

>to

> > > > the rule it seems, and im pissed. so that's my story right

>now, and

> > > > i would REALLY love to see it as a painful lie.

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included

>with MSN

> > Premium!

> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb & pgmarket=en-

>us/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/

>

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/14/2004 4:03:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

eddiekatz444@... writes:

> Your arrogant know-it -all attitude is amazing.

> Love,

> Eddie

i just have to say that the above sentence has me in histerics! i am actually

having a hard time writing because i keep looking at it and bursting out

laughing. im not being condescending here...that just struck me as so funny.

very bill murray of you, eddie,

jeremy