Re: Re: prior to I - Tom - hariatmayoga

[Guest guest]

Hi, Jan.

The first thought that came to mind in reading your message was that I

wrote my statement as a joke, along the lines of " since it's

impossible to do anything wrong, saying I got it wrong will be funny. "

Looking inside more closely, I find there may be an element of

criticizing myself first so someone else won't get the chance.

Prophylactic self-deprecation to keep others from deprecating me.

Thank you for inviting me to look more closely, Jan.

" I'm sure I got it all wrong. "

Is that true?

No. I think I got it right. That's why I posted it.

How does it feel when you believe the thought, " I got it all wrong " ?

It would feel lousy if I believed it, but I don't. It was a joke.

Who would you be without the thought, " I got it all wrong " ?

Just me, posting silly messages.

Your messages are silly. Is that true?

Some of them. Just playful. Silly, fun. Not intended to be taken

seriously. Is that okay?

Why the defensiveness?

Can't you give a guy a straight answer?!

What's hurting, sweetheart?

I'm afraid I'm pretending beyond my evolution.

You're pretending beyond your evolution. Is that true?

I'm afraid so.

Can you absolutely know that it's true that you're pretending beyond

your evolution?

No. I can't know that. I don't know where my evolution is. I have no

references for where I seem to be.

Can you know that you'd be happier if you had a reference point?

No.

What do you think you would have if you had a reference point, if you

knew where your evolution is?

I'd know my limits. I'd know where to stop.

What's the should here? " I should not pretend myself beyond my

evolution " ?

That sounds good.

Okay, is that true?

Yes. I should not pretend myself beyond my evolution.

Good. Can you absolutely know that that's true?

No.

Can you know what's best for your path?

No.

Can you know you'd be happier if you got what you think you want?

Well, what I think I want is a hard and fast boundary that will keep

me from pretending myself beyond my evolution. But if I had that, I'd

try to push on it to increase my evolution. I think I'd probably

feel limited, not happier.

Can you know that?

No.

Can you know what would be best for you, or anyone, in the long run?

No, I can't.

What is the obvious reality?

Sometimes I pretend myself beyond my evolution. Sometimes I pretend

myself below my evolution. Who knows where I really am? I'm just

showing up however I do.

Good. How does it feel when you believe the thought that you should

not pretend yourself beyond your evolution?

I have to be vigilant and hold myself back. I must not show off. I

feel like a little boy who wants to explore his world and see what he

can do, but when he does that, things break and he gets in trouble.

It's not okay to brag. It's not okay to be smarter than someone else.

it's not okay to talk when I want to -- someone else might want to

talk too, and I talk too much anyway.

Where does your mind travel when you attach to this thought?

I'm six years old. I'm dressed up in my nice church clothes. I want to

run and play with the other kids in the church parking lot, but my

mother just scolded me for running in my good clothes. I watch the

other kids having fun and feel sad that I can't join them. It's not

fair. I feel angry at my mother.

How do you treat them when you attach to this thought?

I'll pretend I don't care.

I'll pout.

I'll throw a temper tantrum.

How do you treat yourself when you attach to the thought, I should not

pretend myself beyond my evolution?

I hold myself back.

I pretend I'm the same as everyone else when I secretly believe

otherwise.

I try to figure how to accelerate my evolution. (HOPELESS!!!

Does this thought bring peace or stress into your life?

Stress. I'm totally consumed with concern over staying inside my

corral so others will think well of me.

What's the worst that could happen if you never think the thought

again, and is that true?

I'll pretend all over the place, everybody will decide I'm a total

phoney and write me off, and I'll never have any friends. No, that's

not true. Over and over, I've seen that when I do my worst, they love

me more. How backwards is that?

What do you get out of holding this belief? What's the payoff?

I get a reason for limiting myself, for holding myself back. The

payoff is the safety of familiarity. I keep myself out of unfamiliar

territory.

What does it cost to believe that you should not pretend yourself

beyond your evolution?

It costs me freedom.

Can you see a reason to drop the thought? (but don't try)

Yes - I'd be freer.

Can you see a stress-free reason, one that doesn't argue with reality,

to keep the thought?

No. I'm guessing that sometimes I *do* pretend myself beyond my

evolution, so when I do, that's what is.

Who are you without the thought, " I should not pretend myself beyond

my evolution " ?

Always pretending, wherever I am -- pretending I'm Tom, pretending I

have a job at a particular government lab, pretending I'm the

moderator for this list, pretending I own certain possessions,

pretending I know some things and don't know others. Always in a story

-- no story, no world.

How would you turn the thought around? " I should not pretend myself

beyond my evolution. "

I can't pretend myself beyond my evolution. Wherever I'm pretending to

be right now *is* my evolution.

I should pretend myself beyond my evolution. If I do. When I do.

I am willing to pretend myself beyond my evolution. Could happen.

I look forward to pretending myself beyond my evolution. Why not?

Might as well.

Thanks again, Jan. This was more fruitful than I expected when I

started.

Tom

[Guest guest]

how interesting. for me, the 'i'm sure i got it all wrong anyway' was a very

playful statement - far from abusive - more like an acknowlegement that these

words can really never quite get it right - as in 'the tao that can be spoken is

not the true tao'....i also am quite sure that 'i' got it all wrong, and i laugh

quite heartily at this awareness...loving you jan, and tom, and who ever else is

out there...;0)

jan wrote:hariatmayoga wrote:

> > -Who is the questioner and who is the listener? Who is before I? It

> > says all the same thing to me. Explaining and contemplating loses it.

Tom responded

> Yes, just words on top of words. I'm sure I got it all wrong anyway.

>

>

> Tom

It's easy to go to that ultimate question and keep asking - who am I?

but there are other questions I have found helpful along the way...any

word that serves to take you deeper into self-knowledge of you are

words well worth the asking...and Tom....can you get it wrong?

When you say to us on this board and more to the point to

yourself... " I'm sure I got it all wrong anyway. " What is this?

self-deprecation? For me I'm beginning to realize that compassion

begins with me. This statement for me comes from abuse and is

normalized by our society so when I say similar things - I used to not

give them a second thought.

Today I had the pleasure of catching Wayne Dyer on public television.

He made a wonderful comment on the fact that we all cannot help but

be plugged in to the Source. Unfortunately, our connective link to

that Source is filled with corrosive stories that prohibit us from

seeing clearly. Speaking is so very powerful...choosing to speak your

joy, seeing the best you, to offer peace...serves one well in the

energy exchange of life....so thank you Tom for showing me that my own

self abuse stops here...I'm learning how to choose a more nurturing

voice towards myself.

Blessings - Jan

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

thanks for doing some work for me tom, i for one, pretend myself beyond my

evolution quite often, it appears to be who i am sometimes (i LOVE to talk -

some friends who say that they love me call me 'the preacher' partly because of

how they see me (this made me cringe when i first heard it) and partly because

they found out that my grandfather was a penecostal preacher - they laughed like

hell when they heard that and said AHA! thats where it comes from!!...can i

love that? since finding the work, i find myself quite funny most of the time -

rather endearing where as before there was lots of shame and much seriousness

and 'i must be this, this, and this, ' (always truthful, never angry, kind,

never wanting anything...etc, blah, blah, blah.) ha, ha, ha....hhhmmm. my story

is that i'm much more interesting now that i'm just appearing as who i am for

the most part (at least to me, lol) my story is that it takes courage to just

be...to be honest and live within my integrity instead of

just trying to be what i thought i had learned that a good human being was

supposed to be...sometimes i'm angry, sometimes i'm quiet, sometimes i talk lots

and am very excited and animated, sometimes i'm loud and seem to be a bit

offensive, sometimes i look out and there is just love....people seem to come

and go...some seem to love me, some find my 'honesty' a bit too much....yet here

i am. since finding the work i haven't lost myself....whatever others think of

what they call me, for the first time in my life, i'm learning to just

be.....and loving it! i am learning to let others come and go, to have thier own

projection of me without manipulating it...can i love how i am showing up? i'm

learning that that's all i need (and that i can trust it....i don't have to be

afraid of just being...its quite good actually <smile>

just rambling, as usual....

catherine

Tom Barron wrote:

Hi, Jan.

The first thought that came to mind in reading your message was that I

wrote my statement as a joke, along the lines of " since it's

impossible to do anything wrong, saying I got it wrong will be funny. "

Looking inside more closely, I find there may be an element of

criticizing myself first so someone else won't get the chance.

Prophylactic self-deprecation to keep others from deprecating me.

Thank you for inviting me to look more closely, Jan.

" I'm sure I got it all wrong. "

Is that true?

No. I think I got it right. That's why I posted it.

How does it feel when you believe the thought, " I got it all wrong " ?

It would feel lousy if I believed it, but I don't. It was a joke.

Who would you be without the thought, " I got it all wrong " ?

Just me, posting silly messages.

Your messages are silly. Is that true?

Some of them. Just playful. Silly, fun. Not intended to be taken

seriously. Is that okay?

Why the defensiveness?

Can't you give a guy a straight answer?!

What's hurting, sweetheart?

I'm afraid I'm pretending beyond my evolution.

You're pretending beyond your evolution. Is that true?

I'm afraid so.

Can you absolutely know that it's true that you're pretending beyond

your evolution?

No. I can't know that. I don't know where my evolution is. I have no

references for where I seem to be.

Can you know that you'd be happier if you had a reference point?

No.

What do you think you would have if you had a reference point, if you

knew where your evolution is?

I'd know my limits. I'd know where to stop.

What's the should here? " I should not pretend myself beyond my

evolution " ?

That sounds good.

Okay, is that true?

Yes. I should not pretend myself beyond my evolution.

Good. Can you absolutely know that that's true?

No.

Can you know what's best for your path?

No.

Can you know you'd be happier if you got what you think you want?

Well, what I think I want is a hard and fast boundary that will keep

me from pretending myself beyond my evolution. But if I had that, I'd

try to push on it to increase my evolution. I think I'd probably

feel limited, not happier.

Can you know that?

No.

Can you know what would be best for you, or anyone, in the long run?

No, I can't.

What is the obvious reality?

Sometimes I pretend myself beyond my evolution. Sometimes I pretend

myself below my evolution. Who knows where I really am? I'm just

showing up however I do.

Good. How does it feel when you believe the thought that you should

not pretend yourself beyond your evolution?

I have to be vigilant and hold myself back. I must not show off. I

feel like a little boy who wants to explore his world and see what he

can do, but when he does that, things break and he gets in trouble.

It's not okay to brag. It's not okay to be smarter than someone else.

it's not okay to talk when I want to -- someone else might want to

talk too, and I talk too much anyway.

Where does your mind travel when you attach to this thought?

I'm six years old. I'm dressed up in my nice church clothes. I want to

run and play with the other kids in the church parking lot, but my

mother just scolded me for running in my good clothes. I watch the

other kids having fun and feel sad that I can't join them. It's not

fair. I feel angry at my mother.

How do you treat them when you attach to this thought?

I'll pretend I don't care.

I'll pout.

I'll throw a temper tantrum.

How do you treat yourself when you attach to the thought, I should not

pretend myself beyond my evolution?

I hold myself back.

I pretend I'm the same as everyone else when I secretly believe

otherwise.

I try to figure how to accelerate my evolution. (HOPELESS!!!

Does this thought bring peace or stress into your life?

Stress. I'm totally consumed with concern over staying inside my

corral so others will think well of me.

What's the worst that could happen if you never think the thought

again, and is that true?

I'll pretend all over the place, everybody will decide I'm a total

phoney and write me off, and I'll never have any friends. No, that's

not true. Over and over, I've seen that when I do my worst, they love

me more. How backwards is that?

What do you get out of holding this belief? What's the payoff?

I get a reason for limiting myself, for holding myself back. The

payoff is the safety of familiarity. I keep myself out of unfamiliar

territory.

What does it cost to believe that you should not pretend yourself

beyond your evolution?

It costs me freedom.

Can you see a reason to drop the thought? (but don't try)

Yes - I'd be freer.

Can you see a stress-free reason, one that doesn't argue with reality,

to keep the thought?

No. I'm guessing that sometimes I *do* pretend myself beyond my

evolution, so when I do, that's what is.

Who are you without the thought, " I should not pretend myself beyond

my evolution " ?

Always pretending, wherever I am -- pretending I'm Tom, pretending I

have a job at a particular government lab, pretending I'm the

moderator for this list, pretending I own certain possessions,

pretending I know some things and don't know others. Always in a story

-- no story, no world.

How would you turn the thought around? " I should not pretend myself

beyond my evolution. "

I can't pretend myself beyond my evolution. Wherever I'm pretending to

be right now *is* my evolution.

I should pretend myself beyond my evolution. If I do. When I do.

I am willing to pretend myself beyond my evolution. Could happen.

I look forward to pretending myself beyond my evolution. Why not?

Might as well.

Thanks again, Jan. This was more fruitful than I expected when I

started.

Tom

[Guest guest]

> how interesting. for me, the 'i'm sure i got it all wrong anyway'

> was a very playful statement - far from abusive - more like an

> acknowlegement that these words can really never quite get it right

> - as in 'the tao that can be spoken is not the true tao'....i also

> am quite sure that 'i' got it all wrong, and i laugh quite heartily

> at this awareness...loving you jan, and tom, and who ever else is

> out there...;0)

Funny. Playful was the original story I had. Then I looked and found

something more. Maybe that's a story, too? Maybe if I go looking for

trouble I shouldn't be surprised when I find it?

Thank you for the perspective, .

love,

Tom