Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Or another way of putting it could be " Loving What Is. " Or, if I don't get what I want (i.e: planning and expectation) I have been spared. Or, " If you want pain, make a plan. " *****Steve, is it your experience that whenever you make plans you get pain? [Cause that is what the quote above says.] That has not been my experience. In many cases, making plans is essential for me and in not doing so a mess will result (I'm currently thinking about planning in regard to my professional obligations; to not plan would be irresponsible and detrimental to those who depend on me). The statement " If you want pain, make a plan " strikes me as simplistic at best, perhaps even puerile. Sure, neurotic planning and persistenly worrying about outcomes is " pain, " but those are not inherent qualities of planning. As I see it, the basic act of planning (making a plan) is a survival skill, one that God has visited upon us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Dear Andy, I do not agree with your viewpoint; however, you are welcome to it. Love, steve D. > > > Or another way of putting it could be " Loving What Is. " > Or, if I don't get what I want (i.e: planning and expectation) I have > been spared. > Or, " If you want pain, make a plan. " > > > *****Steve, is it your experience that whenever you make plans you > get pain? [Cause that is what the quote above says.] That has not > been my experience. In many cases, making plans is essential for me > and in not doing so a mess will result (I'm currently thinking about > planning in regard to my professional obligations; to not plan would > be irresponsible and detrimental to those who depend on me). > > The statement " If you want pain, make a plan " strikes me as > simplistic at best, perhaps even puerile. Sure, neurotic planning > and persistenly worrying about outcomes is " pain, " but those are not > inherent qualities of planning. As I see it, the basic act of > planning (making a plan) is a survival skill, one that God has > visited upon us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 > Or another way of putting it could be " Loving What Is. " > Or, if I don't get what I want (i.e: planning and expectation) I have > been spared. > Or, " If you want pain, make a plan. " > > > *****Steve, is it your experience that whenever you make plans you > get pain? [Cause that is what the quote above says.] That might be what you heard... > That has not been my experience. In many cases, making plans is essential for me and in not doing so a mess will result. Is it true that a mess will result? > (I'm currently thinking about > planning in regard to my professional obligations; to not plan would > be irresponsible and detrimental to those who depend on me). Is it true that you can plan and things will go according to your plan? Is it true it's irresponsible to not plan? Is it true that not planning can be detrimental to those who depend on you? The underlying belief here for me, is that I have a choice, will and control. Is it true that we have choice, will and control? > The statement " If you want pain, make a plan " strikes me as > simplistic at best, perhaps even puerile. Sure, neurotic planning > and persistenly worrying about outcomes is " pain, " but those are not > inherent qualities of planning. As I see it, the basic act of > planning (making a plan) is a survival skill Is it true that planning is a survival skill? I hear that that is your truth. > one that God has visited upon us. Can you turn that around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Andy, You said: " As I see it, the basic act of planning (making a plan) is a survival skill, one that God has visited upon us. " I would gree with you on the point of " planning being a survival skill " . However, I would ask you, " Survival of what? " Also, I certainly would not attempt to blame God for this skill. For me, your saying " one that God has visited upon us. " is akin to saying " the devil made me do it! " . You called my beliefs childish. I am grateful to you for that one. For me, that is a compliment. :-) It appears that we view the world differently and that is as it should be, until we don't. Love, Steve D. > > > > > > Or another way of putting it could be " Loving What Is. " > > Or, if I don't get what I want (i.e: planning and expectation) I > have > > been spared. > > Or, " If you want pain, make a plan. " > > > > > > *****Steve, is it your experience that whenever you make plans you > > get pain? [Cause that is what the quote above says.] That has not > > been my experience. In many cases, making plans is essential for > me > > and in not doing so a mess will result (I'm currently thinking > about > > planning in regard to my professional obligations; to not plan > would > > be irresponsible and detrimental to those who depend on me). > > > > The statement " If you want pain, make a plan " strikes me as > > simplistic at best, perhaps even puerile. Sure, neurotic planning > > and persistenly worrying about outcomes is " pain, " but those are > not > > inherent qualities of planning. As I see it, the basic act of > > planning (making a plan) is a survival skill, one that God has > > visited upon us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Andy, You said: " As I see it, the basic act of planning (making a plan) is a survival skill, one that God has visited upon us. " I would gree with you on the point of " planning being a survival skill " . However, I would ask you, " Survival of what? " *****Of the individual bodymind mechanism. And yes, I appreciate that *all* this is illusory, but I appear to be compelled to act AS IF it is " real. " It is within that context that I am speaking. You and I agree, I believe, on the Bigger Picture (what in zen is referred to as The Absolute). Also, I certainly would not attempt to blame God for this skill. For me, your saying " one that God has visited upon us. " is akin to saying " the devil made me do it! " . *****I apologize if I communicated a sense of blame. That was not my intention. Maybe that is what you heard in my used of " visited upon us. " I simply meant that it comes with the hard-wiring of being human. No blame directed or attached. It is, for me, how it is. You called my beliefs childish. I am grateful to you for that one. For me, that is a compliment. :-) *****Yes, beginner's mind. But Steve, sweetie, you never answered my question directly. Would you now? Is it your experience that if you make plans then there is pain? Marsha pointed out that that was what I heard, so I'm going to the source of the statement, vous, and asking for some amplification. P.S. I was under the impression that the quote you presented was from Byron . Was it? If it was yours, I wonder if my response would have been different? Won't ever know, will I. :-))) It appears that we view the world differently and that is as it should be, until we don't. *****And we may always view it differently. As long as we can tolerate each other's vision without resorting to hostility within or without, I see no issue with. Love arises unimpeded, both for you and for your beliefs, for who and what you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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