Guest guest Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 > > Grief, for instance. In a moment of overwhelming grief, there is > no suffering. There is grief. Clear, plain, crisp, and sharp. A > dagger penetrating the heartspace. It hurts. No problem! > Andy shall we play? Yes, what else is there to do I am sure you are familiar with s order of creation: Think, Feel, Act, Have. So if I experience grief, it must be because I am innocently believing a thought which is not true. Every feeling (grief) must be preceeded by a thought which causes it. Grief does not arise out of thin air, although that can be the way it appears if you are not watching carefully. Is grief part of God? Yes. Do I have to continue to experience it? No. I can inquire and undo my belief in the thought causing the grief, and hey presto the grief is gone. You know this whole defense of negative emotions is just so insane. No one needs to suffer or have negative emotions ever. Truth doesn't suffer ever. Helen the scribe of the ACIM once asked Jesus if he suffered on the cross. Jesus replied " No " . Can you imagine it there is a man being crucified and he is smiling. This was way too much for the early Church fathers to handle so they changed the story to a much less scary one of misery and suffering. Only when a part of God is insane can suffering or any negative emotion arise. The sane parts of God know only joy, love and peace; nothing else is possible. Loving what is ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Andy shall we play? Yes, what else is there to do *****Agreed. I am sure you are familiar with s order of creation: Think, Feel, Act, Have. So if I experience grief, it must be because I am innocently believing a thought which is not true. Every feeling (grief) must be preceeded by a thought which causes it. Grief does not arise out of thin air, although that can be the way it appears if you are not watching carefully. *****Agreed. Is grief part of God? Yes. *****Agreed. There is nothing which is not. Do I have to continue to experience it? No. I can inquire and undo my belief in the thought causing the grief, and hey presto the grief is gone. *****Disagree. Sorry, but from this perspective, you can inquire and MAYBE...just MAYBE...if it is so Willed...the belief in the thought which is causing the grief will be undone. And the grief, seen through, will abate. It happens. I would never suggest to anyone NOT to do The Work or whatever else they feel drawn to. But whether or not The Work successfully undoes the underlying belief(s) is not merely a function of having done the Work. Sometimes success happens. Sometimes not. When not, it isn't the individual's fault, nor a screw up. It just isn't...time. You assert that *you* do the Work and it frees you, as if you had anything to say about either your actions or the outcome of your actions. The persistence you display in believing that you have any power whatsoever over anything merely reinforces the illusion. And that misguided persistence on your part is also Willed (as is my insistence on commenting on it). You know this whole defense of negative emotions is just so insane. No one needs to suffer or have negative emotions ever. Truth doesn't suffer ever. Helen the scribe of the ACIM once asked Jesus if he suffered on the cross. Jesus replied " No " . Can you imagine it there is a man being crucified and he is smiling. This was way too much for the early Church fathers to handle so they changed the story to a much less scary one of misery and suffering. *****I don't know anything about this. I wasn't there. No conclusions can be drawn on events that are alleged to have happened almost 2000 years ago. Only when a part of God is insane can suffering or any negative emotion arise. The sane parts of God know only joy, love and peace; nothing else is possible. *****I wonder why you find negative emotions so threatening. Andy reminds me of where I was twenty years ago before I discovered ACIM and the Work of Byron . *****Yes, well...I guess at this moment I'm not as evolved at as you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 > > *****Disagree. Sorry, but from this perspective, you can inquire > and MAYBE...just MAYBE...if it is so Willed...the belief in the > thought which is causing the grief will be undone. And the grief, > seen through, will abate. It happens. I would never suggest to > anyone NOT to do The Work or whatever else they feel drawn to. But > whether or not The Work successfully undoes the underlying belief > (s) is not merely a function of having done the Work. Sometimes > success happens. Sometimes not. When not, it isn't the > individual's fault, nor a screw up. It just isn't...time. You > assert that *you* do the Work and it frees you, as if you had > anything to say about either your actions or the outcome of your > actions. The persistence you display in believing that you have > any power whatsoever over anything merely reinforces the illusion. > And that misguided persistence on your part is also Willed (as is > my insistence on commenting on it). > Thanks for playing Andy Yes, I am sure the truth is that there is no " I " who does anything, but the trouble is " I " am not quite there yet. I still believe I exist, for better or worse. That's what I love about the Work and ACIM, I don't have to get that " I " am an illusion. All I have to do is undo all my stressful thoughts and live a happy dream. From the happy dream, God himself lifts me back into Truth. This is a very simple path. Like a Mozart piano concerto, too simple for children too complex for adults. Here is a quote from " Losing the Moon " which says it much better than I can: replies: " ....I don't know about time. Can you just inquire and be happy now? But then it moves into I want this to last forever. Well, you just moved into a future and lost it. And that is specifically how you lost it. We are either doing it or undoing it. So can you just be happy now? People want enlightenment, yes, so you don't have to suffer, so just don't suffer now. Investigate instead. This is it. It is really hard to hear and it's that simple. Because only this exists. " > > Andy reminds me of where I was twenty years ago before I discovered > ACIM and the Work of Byron . > > *****Yes, well...I guess at this moment I'm not as evolved at as > you. Not into playing the game of more or less evolved Just different paths, both quite equal from where I stand. Loving what is ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Dear Lovetheworkofbk, You said: " Only when a part of God is insane can suffering or any negative emotion arise. The sane parts of God know only joy, love and peace; nothing else is possible. " I agree and for me, there are no " insane " parts of God. Of course (no pun intended) there can be " illusions " of " insane " or confused parts of God. :-) This may sound like the splitting of hairs; however, for me it is an important splitting of hairs. God is Good, God is All. Our illusions are just so darn believable! (This is just my opinion.) Steve D > > > > > Grief, for instance. In a moment of overwhelming grief, there is > > no suffering. There is grief. Clear, plain, crisp, and sharp. A > > dagger penetrating the heartspace. It hurts. No problem! > > > > Andy shall we play? Yes, what else is there to do > > I am sure you are familiar with s order of creation: Think, > Feel, Act, Have. So if I experience grief, it must be because I am > innocently believing a thought which is not true. Every feeling > (grief) must be preceeded by a thought which causes it. Grief does > not arise out of thin air, although that can be the way it appears if > you are not watching carefully. > > Is grief part of God? Yes. > > Do I have to continue to experience it? No. I can inquire and undo my > belief in the thought causing the grief, and hey presto the grief is > gone. > > You know this whole defense of negative emotions is just so insane. > No one needs to suffer or have negative emotions ever. Truth doesn't > suffer ever. Helen the scribe of the ACIM once asked Jesus if he > suffered on the cross. Jesus replied " No " . Can you imagine it there > is a man being crucified and he is smiling. This was way too much for > the early Church fathers to handle so they changed the story to a > much less scary one of misery and suffering. > > Only when a part of God is insane can suffering or any negative > emotion arise. The sane parts of God know only joy, love and peace; > nothing else is possible. > > Loving what is ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Thanks for playing Andy Yes, I am sure the truth is that there is no " I " who does anything, but the trouble is " I " am not quite there yet. I still believe I exist, for better or worse. *****Me too. From time to time. But the bondage is less oppressive now. That's what I love about the Work and ACIM, I don't have to get that " I " am an illusion. All I have to do is undo all my stressful thoughts and live a happy dream. From the happy dream, God himself lifts me back into Truth. This is a very simple path. Like a Mozart piano concerto, too simple for children too complex for adults. Here is a quote from " Losing the Moon " which says it much better than I can: replies: " ....I don't know about time. Can you just inquire and be happy now? But then it moves into I want this to last forever. Well, you just moved into a future and lost it. And that is specifically how you lost it. We are either doing it or undoing it. So can you just be happy now? People want enlightenment, yes, so you don't have to suffer, so just don't suffer now. Investigate instead. This is it. It is really hard to hear and it's that simple. Because only this exists. " *****Nice pictures. Pretty images. I don't disagree with any of the above, just about our ability to bring it about. Her words belie the fact that even the desire, the energy to investigate is not up to us. When it isn't there, regardless of the level or degree of suffering, inquiry doesn't happen. The urge to do so, that which moves one to pencil and paper Work, must be *present* and that presence is not a matter of " our " will. It either appears (as a function of Grace), and one is so moved to do the inquiry, or it does not. The biggest illusion is that " we " control it, or anything, for that matter. We are the driven, not the driver, and until that is really Seen, there will be confusion. > Andy reminds me of where I was twenty years ago before I discovered > ACIM and the Work of Byron . > > *****Yes, well...I guess at this moment I'm not as evolved at as > you. Not into playing the game of more or less evolved Just different paths, both quite equal from where I stand. *****OK. Got it. Chastised appropriately (from where I sit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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