Re: I am the Monster

[Guest guest]

I don't know why you are being so hard on yourself. This goes back to what

Debbie and I ( and others) were saying before. Sometimes little children

need stronger discipline...I don't see that what you did was so terrible.

Yes, shoving her wasn't the best, but everyone makes mistakes. She needed

to be spanked...

Jackie

> I begin to wonder if perhaps I am the monster my nada just knew I was

from

> the moment I took my first breathe. How can many bad things happen to a

person

> who is not inherantly bad, I wonder?

>

> I hurt my child. My baby, my heart, my joy. I know and I believe it is

> wrong with every fiber in my body to ever spank a child, smack their

hands,

> cause injury or inflct pain. But I did that today. I pushed her down. Down

away

> from the tele and the buttons and the vcr . Pushed her down away from me.

Just

> away.

> Away as I tried in vain to fix what she has broken after Ive told her

> time and time again to not climb, to not hit, to not push and play with

the

> electric stuff. She once listened and obeyed me. All those glorious tips

and

> teachings Id learned in my many books of child development once worked and

I

> never even had to raise my voice.She started to go after it again and down

I

> shoved her.

> What happenned? I do them all and learn more but she just stares at me

> brazen and defiant. Nearly two and all the sas of a sixteen year old. Now

I

> take to yelling, making loud buzzing noises to startle her . It worked

for a

> week.. Take her away and distract her. But I swear she has the memory of

an

> elaphant.

> I know this is probably normal behavior. I know that. But I pushed

her

> down. How mean and cruel I am. To just a little toddler.I blame no one

but

> myself. Maybe my nada was right so many times she said I was unfit to

live.

> I have to wonder if it was more a curse than a blessing I didnt die

the

> last time I hung myself. I dont know.

>

> ( before U owners start modifying me and shooting off e mails emblazened

> that I am not allowed to threaten suicide , I am not doing any such

thing. What

> could a computer or written words do to save me even I were? So why

bother.)

>

> My heart just aches and it burns and I know I am no better than my

nada.

> No better. I am the monster.

[Guest guest]

I don't think you are a monster. I think what you are feeling comes

from the love you have from your child, and from not wanting to hurt

her in any way at all. Parents who really care will feel bad about

making their child unhappy, even when they intellectually understand

that it is for the child's own good.

Here is my theory on all of this. We put a 2 year old, whose natural

inclination is to explore, into a room where there are things that

the child can damage. Now why are we doing that? Partly because our

culture, in one way or another, say.....we have to teach them not to

touch these things, we have to, because what if we are visiting, and

they break something of someone else, etc. In just a few years, that

child will better understand our 'commands' of 'don't touch'. But I

see this as just a misguided situation of expecting behavior from a

child that is beyond what the child is capable of. I DON'T mean this

to be a criticism of you, however, please understand that.

Can the VCR be moved? Yes, it may be an inconvenience....but is it

worth it to do this to avoid the inevitable battles that may ensue?

Again, my philosophy is that children have to be protected, and this

means removing from their reach anything that they could harm, or

that could harm them.

I can remember many times getting up and down with my children as

they reached for TV controls, etc, that I couldn't move. I felt it

was what I should do if I was putting myself and my child in such a

situation. I didn't mind doing it. My children learned that when I

said they couldn't touch something, that I would be there to remove

them if they tried. It was more work than spanking and yelling, but I

didn't want to spank or yell.

My son, at age 2 - 3, was a 'wrecker'. We actually put locks on the

outside of doors to rooms. He wasn't allowed in any room alone,

because he would go to doors, drawers, closets, etc, and pull

everything out and make a mess. Now I could have given him many

spankings to try to prevent this. That would have proved that I was

bigger and stronger, and that if he didn't obey my authority he would

receive physical punishment. But it was my responsibility to manage

his environment in what was the best for his age. I had to make

accomodations for him - not the other way around - at least not at

that age! (Now that he is 26, I do expect him to make accomodations

for me, LOL!)

When my daughter was around the same age, we would go through rooms

and identify what could and could not be touched. That seemed to work

for her - and it was a good exercise to help her understand that

there were things that shouldn't be touched. However, I still kept

things out of reach until I knew she was at a developmental age to be

trusted.

Give yourself a break - we are not perfect - we will make mistakes -

when we do, we will be different from our BPD parent, we will admit

to our mistake and plan how we will do it differently the next time.

Also, one negative interaction, or even several interactions, do not

emotionally scar a child. It is the constant pattern of interaction

that is important. It seems to be that the constant pattern between

you and your child is a positive one. Go give that baby an extra hug

and kiss - and be kind and gentle to yourself as well.

Sylvia

> I begin to wonder if perhaps I am the monster my nada just knew I

was from

> the moment I took my first breathe. How can many bad things happen

to a person

> who is not inherantly bad, I wonder?

>

> I hurt my child. My baby, my heart, my joy. I know and I believe

it is

> wrong with every fiber in my body to ever spank a child, smack

their hands,

> cause injury or inflct pain. But I did that today. I pushed her

down. Down away

> from the tele and the buttons and the vcr . Pushed her down away

from me. Just

> away.

> Away as I tried in vain to fix what she has broken after Ive

told her

> time and time again to not climb, to not hit, to not push and play

with the

> electric stuff. She once listened and obeyed me. All those glorious

tips and

> teachings Id learned in my many books of child development once

worked and I

> never even had to raise my voice.She started to go after it again

and down I

> shoved her.

> What happenned? I do them all and learn more but she just

stares at me

> brazen and defiant. Nearly two and all the sas of a sixteen year

old. Now I

> take to yelling, making loud buzzing noises to startle her . It

worked for a

> week.. Take her away and distract her. But I swear she has the

memory of an

> elaphant.

> I know this is probably normal behavior. I know that. But I

pushed her

> down. How mean and cruel I am. To just a little toddler.I blame no

one but

> myself. Maybe my nada was right so many times she said I was

unfit to live.

> I have to wonder if it was more a curse than a blessing I didnt

die the

> last time I hung myself. I dont know.

>

> ( before U owners start modifying me and shooting off e mails

emblazened

> that I am not allowed to threaten suicide , I am not doing any

such thing. What

> could a computer or written words do to save me even I were? So

why bother.)

>

> My heart just aches and it burns and I know I am no better than

my nada.

> No better. I am the monster.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sexystarshine,

What your daughter did was very natural. What you did was also very natural.

What would have happened if your daughter had caused the tv or vcr to fall

on her or broke the glass front? Either way it was very dangerous for her to

do. Do you have or can you get a high entertainment center? If you do or

can, then you can put the television on the very top shelf. Then fill up all

the areas you can on it with other things to block her way up. Or you can

get little doors put on then apply child safety locks. My husband made me

one that has doors on it. I don't have any little ones but I didn't have the

tall kind when I did have little ones.

If its not the television & vcr it will be other things that she will do.

She is trying to see your reaction when she does break your rules. She is

trying to see just how far you will let her go. Some children need to feel

pain in some manner to let them know that they should leave it alone. Just

be glad that she isn't playing with the knobs on the stove yet. She will get

around to it in the future (most likely) unless there is something you can

do to keep her from it beforehand.

That is just being a curious child who wants to know everything about her

world. Some things that children get into are very dangerous & life

threatening. When they won't take " NO " for an answer, we then have to choose

to give a spanking or just flat pray for their safety & take a chance. I

would rather spank than to lose my child. I could never live with myself if

I decided not to spank my child & it cost them their lives. So sometimes one

has to make a choice between 2 things that are going to make us feel rotten.

We just have to choose which one is the least damaging mentally.

One spanking here or there is not going to hurt your daughter. Nor will one

small shove. In a week or maybe 3 she will not remember this incident

(unless she is constantly reminded of it). It will not scar her little mind

permanently.

Discipline that is few & far between cannot permanently harm any child. That

is why I pick the battles I choose to have with my children. I compromise

where I can. My children know this & so they really don't mind The few

restrictions that I place on them. When my daughters were little I would let

them play & turn summersaults in their dresses & have fun, but they had to

wear shorts under them or they had to sit & behave like the grown up ladies.

I will give you one guess as to which one they chose. I certainly did not

have their company on the chair beside me. I enjoyed watching them play as

much as they loved playing.

So you are not a monster. You are a very loving mother to a very precious

little girl. A little girl just learning where the boundaries are & wants to

be sure of them. She is testing to see if you love her enough to make sure

that she doesn't get hurt & at the same time she is learning who she is

inside. She absolutely has a need to know just how much she can get away

with. She will set her own boundaries accordingly. If you let her get away

with everything she will no longer feel secure. At the same time, you do not

have to spank for every incident. By the way, at 2 she understands pretty

much every word you say, she is just learning so much else in her world that

she is a little slower on learning the words to help her express herself.

I have studied many many books on child care. I was afraid not to with the

upbringing that I had. With each child I have spanked less & less. I have

learned not to fret the small stuff, & try every other way of correction

possible (short of mental & physical abuse) before I spanked. I limited

myself to 3 swats for each offense when I had to swat them on the behind. I

limited myself to 1 spot on their backside, & I tried to not correct them

when I was angry. That's very hard to do when you have a 3 year old jump on

your back & bite the dickens out of your shoulder over a stuffed rabbit that

is bigger than she is, a child raises their fist to you because they are

angry, shoves you for the same reason, leaves your presence when you are

trying to talk to them about something very important just because they

don't want to listen to you, or finally they do something that you have told

them not to do just because they want to know if you are woman enough to

dish out the correction they have earned.

I will give you 2 incidents & what I did about it.

I had one of my children getting his hands on porn at school. I told him

point blank that if he got into trouble at school or messed with porn once

more he was going on homeschool. Within 2 weeks he was on homeschool.

Another time this same child was told not to hang around his cousins because

they were thieves, liars, beggars, users, just plain headed for prison. I

caught him with them one time without me around. I took his bike away from

him for 2 months,

spanked his behind, & grounded him to the inside of the house for a month.

It wasn't 2 weeks & those boys were in trouble for stealing. It wasn't 2

months before the boys were in trouble for car theft, driving without a

license, stealing gas, running 100 miles an hour from the cops, & in serious

trouble. One of them actually made it to prison. (Thank God!). I kept my son

from going down that path, along with some help from my creator.

Basically it just boils down to the hard headedness of a child whether or

not you have to resort to spanking or shoving or whatever. I shoved one of

my daughters before on purpose because she kept shoving another little girl

down quite often. She was 2 years old. I told her that every time I caught

her shoving any child down I would do it to her. I knew that it was ugly

behavior on her part & I wanted her to know what it felt like. I told her

this. She understood perfectly & never did push that little girl down again.

Well this is long & I could go on. But this is way too long as it is. You

are not a monster. You are a normal mother. You are not acting like a BP,

You did it out of love, care, & frustration. You are not a child abuser

either so do like Sylvia said. Be kind & good to yourself. Give your daughte

r an extra hug. Just don't over do the making it up to your daughter too

much or you will condition her to act ugly so that you will lose your temper

& she will get lots of love afterwards. Children are like animals in the

respect that you can train them to misbehave or behave by the way you treat

them before, during, & after correction.

(((((((((((HUGS)))))))))

Debbie

I am the Monster

> I begin to wonder if perhaps I am the monster my nada just knew I was

from

> the moment I took my first breathe. How can many bad things happen to a

person

> who is not inherantly bad, I wonder?

>

> I hurt my child. My baby, my heart, my joy. I know and I believe it is

> wrong with every fiber in my body to ever spank a child, smack their

hands,

> cause injury or inflct pain. But I did that today. I pushed her down. Down

away

> from the tele and the buttons and the vcr . Pushed her down away from me.

Just

> away.

> Away as I tried in vain to fix what she has broken after Ive told her

> time and time again to not climb, to not hit, to not push and play with

the

> electric stuff. She once listened and obeyed me. All those glorious tips

and

> teachings Id learned in my many books of child development once worked and

I

> never even had to raise my voice.She started to go after it again and down

I

> shoved her.

> What happenned? I do them all and learn more but she just stares at me

> brazen and defiant. Nearly two and all the sas of a sixteen year old. Now

I

> take to yelling, making loud buzzing noises to startle her . It worked

for a

> week.. Take her away and distract her. But I swear she has the memory of

an

> elaphant.

> I know this is probably normal behavior. I know that. But I pushed

her

> down. How mean and cruel I am. To just a little toddler.I blame no one

but

> myself. Maybe my nada was right so many times she said I was unfit to

live.

> I have to wonder if it was more a curse than a blessing I didnt die

the

> last time I hung myself. I dont know.

>

> ( before U owners start modifying me and shooting off e mails emblazened

> that I am not allowed to threaten suicide , I am not doing any such

thing. What

> could a computer or written words do to save me even I were? So why

bother.)

>

> My heart just aches and it burns and I know I am no better than my

nada.

> No better. I am the monster.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are practicing *black and white* behavior about yourself.

You are classifying yourself as ALL BAD.

That is exactly what Nadas do -- and what Nadas teach us " kids of " (KO's)

Nadas have been taught you to do.

This group of KO's is trying to learn to think differently than our Nadas.

Have you read the books on BPD yet? Have you read the other posts explaining

what BPD is? If not, we'll send you some more.

Love yourself as you would your neighbor -- have compassion for yourself --

and hang in there -- don't give up before the miracle happens!

Barb T.

In a message dated 7/19/04 2:41:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

sexystarshine79@... writes:

>

> My heart just aches and it burns and I know I am no better than my nada.

>

> No better. I am the monster.

>

>