Re: Tone of voice

[Guest guest]

>

I am disappointed by your reaction to (my son's) question posed to

you today. You made him a promise during our meeting to aknowledge

his questions and I do not believe a stern look is an appropriate

reponse. Furthermore, Mrs. (*****) has offered the use of her office

many times and I think that even if you do not have the time to

administer the quiz, she would be able to do this.

Mimi says: you pointed out her bias and bad behavior. She didn't

think her poor communication to your child would get to you. Rather

than owning up she is defencive. This only alludes to her ego being

fragile. She doesn't want to address her bad behavior (I am sure she

has rationalized that too many concessions get made to your son and

she is holding him to a higher standard) (I would like to insert a

word here but baloney will have to do). EGO EGO EGO. NT adults are

so much fun and so fragile and so difficult to deal with because they

cannot be honest. I lose my marbles all the time.

As an aside I was going to be a teacher too, I quit when the

professor announced he would keep anyone that didn't agree with him

from obtaining a licence.

[Guest guest]

It was just a joke. I don't remember which comedian I heard say it though.

Geez, how did my talk about tone of voice get convoluted into killing familymembers?! LOLI know, no one owns a thread, it was a joke on another list or website about"how did my thread turn into this...".Anyway, I sure can't imagine wanting or having wanted to kill my relatives(I have no family).I can barely think anything like that (killing or nearly killing) about acouple of VERY bad persons I got victimized by. And yet some people wouldthink us Aspies as the killer type because of our coverage in the news! ;-)Randy GarrettAntioch, CA USA-----<---{(@-----Original Message-----From: FAMSecretSociety [mailto:FAMSecretSociety ] On Behalf Of ravenmagic2003Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:35 PMTo: FAMSecretSociety Subject: Re: Tone of voice wrote: "Just remember the old saying about family: God gave usfamily to learn to get along with people we would rather kill."I hadn't heard that but once I stopped chuckling, I realized that it isactually very accurate. Thanks for posting that, .RavenNo virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12/1374 - Release Date: 4/11/20084:59 PM------------------------------------FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. To contact the forum administrator, use this e-mail address: FAMSecretSociety-owner Check the Links section for more FAM forums. Our website is here: http://www.geocities.com/environmental1st2003/FAM_Secret_Society.htmland you may add to it on this page: http://www.geocities.com/environmental1st2003/Main6.html

[Guest guest]

I would agree. I've gotten really angry at people before and wanted to do bad things to them, but never have. The "don't hurt your own species instinct" works quite well in me. There are some cases where that would be different, but those are few and not likely to happen. Well, getting burglarized (again) is as is being home when it happens, but even then I'd give them fair warning to run before anything else happened.

In a message dated 4/11/2008 6:12:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

Autistics can indeed become enraged, and they are cunning, but studies have shown that their is no link between autism and a level of violence higher than that of perpetuated by non-autistics. There are a couple of articles on this stored in the Files section in the "Reliable Information" folder. AdministratorIt's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance.

[Guest guest]

Geez, how did my talk about tone of voice get convoluted into killing family

members?! LOL

I know, no one owns a thread, it was a joke on another list or website about

" how did my thread turn into this... " .

Anyway, I sure can't imagine wanting or having wanted to kill my relatives

(I have no family).

I can barely think anything like that (killing or nearly killing) about a

couple of VERY bad persons I got victimized by. And yet some people would

think us Aspies as the killer type because of our coverage in the news! ;-)

Randy Garrett

Antioch, CA USA

-----<---{(@

Re: Tone of voice

wrote: " Just remember the old saying about family: God gave us

family to learn to get along with people we would rather kill. "

I hadn't heard that but once I stopped chuckling, I realized that it is

actually very accurate. Thanks for posting that, .

Raven

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4:59 PM

[Guest guest]

Actually, changing 'killing' to 'great bodily harm' or 'beating the crap out

of...' might work in the 'joke'!!!! ;-)

Randy Garrett

Antioch, CA USA

-----<---{(@

Re: Re: Tone of voice

I'm glad you liked that one. I don't often tell it because not everyone sees

the humor in it.

In a message dated 4/10/2008 5:35:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

ravenmagic2003@... writes:

I hadn't heard that but once I stopped chuckling, I realized that it

is actually very accurate. Thanks for posting that, .

Raven

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4:59 PM

[Guest guest]

" I can barely think anything like that (killing or nearly killing)

about a couple of VERY bad persons I got victimized by. And yet some

people would think us Aspies as the killer type because of our coverage

in the news! ;-) "

Autistics can indeed become enraged, and they are cunning, but studies

have shown that their is no link between autism and a level of violence

higher than that of perpetuated by non-autistics. There are a couple of

articles on this stored in the Files section in the " Reliable

Information " folder.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

This is a good (kinda) example of misunderstanding email and

misunderstanding verbal statements too (by anyone).

I knew you (or anyone else on this) was not serious and it was a joke.

Randy Garrett

Antioch, CA USA

-----<---{(@

Re: Re: Tone of voice

It was just a joke. I don't remember which comedian I heard say it though.

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4:59 PM

[Guest guest]

Randy wrote: " Geez, how did my talk about tone of voice get

convoluted into killing family members?! LOL ... <snip> ... I can

barely think anything like that (killing or nearly killing) about a

couple of VERY bad persons I got victimized by. And yet some people

would think us Aspies as the killer type because of our coverage in

the news! ;-) ... <snip> ... "

Isn't it funny that if an Aspie says something like, " I'm so mad I

could kill so-and-so " the NT world goes into reaction and the

virtual 'garlic cloves and wooden stakes' are pulled out to protect

them from Aspies the world over.

And yet, when my own mother said to my then-5-year-old son, " I wish

your mother had never been born " and then scowled at her own

grandson, not one NT thought this behaviour was inappropriate or

violent.

My then-5-year-old got it. He looked at her and asked, " Are you

saying you wish that I was never born, too? " to which she replied YES!

While I don't advocate killing, my own mother killed a bit of my

child that day and for hurting him, I can never forgive her those

comments.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

> While I don't advocate killing, my own mother killed a bit of my

> child that day and for hurting him, I can never forgive her those

> comments.

OH how aweful! I would not be able to forgive those words either.

Kim

[Guest guest]

" We will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends "

--MLK

" If I stand up,

If you stand up,

Everyone will stand up "

--Pasthun proverb/a slogan from the RAWA (Afghani women's resistance

against the Taliban)

The kind of people who won't stand up, and those who get freaked out

about who people are vex me greatly.

[Guest guest]

"We will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends"--MLK

"If I stand up,If you stand up,Everyone will stand up"--Pasthun proverb/a slogan from the RAWA (Afghani women's resistanceagainst the Taliban)

"The kind of people who won't stand up, and those who get freaked out about who people are vex me greatly."

The question is how to get people to stand up along side of you though.

Raven and I have the Midnight In Chicago project going and cut a full length CD to help raise funds and awareness.

eKC Online reviewed the "Countdown to Midnight" CD and said paid as much attention to the fact that it sounded as great as an Elton CD than to the fact that it was raising funds for autism.

Read the following music review and I'll tell you a story...

Singer/songwriter Elyse Bruce has a long pedigree in music having studied classical piano in Paris and jazz in Canada with numerous musicians. That's not even mentioning her impressive amount of on-stage and studio experience. But in her album Countdown to Midnight, Bruce seek more than just producing a album of both original and lite blues and pop: — 20 percent of every sale goes to the Midnight in Chicago project, which seeks to raise awareness of autism, Asperger Syndrome, and Autistic Spectrum Disorders.The album's sales also help fund their educational pod casts (available free at the first site listed above), which Bruce hosts with MIC artist D. and the help of her own son, , who has Asperger Syndrome. With the twelve, simple pop, Elton -ish arrangements, featuring Gerry Dere on keyboards and Doug Jensen on guitar for "Autoroute," Bruce has produced a mature and cultured album most fans of classic pop will love. If there's any complaint here, it's all the business ads inside the liner notes. But since they're also supporting a good cause, it seems a little petty to quibble about after all.In an age when all the music industry can offer is the next Britney train wreck for us to watch, it's nice to see someone actually trying to do something positive with their talent, while having fun at the same time. Countdown to Midnight proves that it can be done, no matter what time it is… — Whitehead (posted 02/01/08)

Now the story...

Music buffs know that Gerry Dere was instrumental in the production of the Canadian musical (as in stage show) "Jesus Christ Superstar" and so on that basis alone, I am sure people download the songs and buy the albums. They want to get more of that "Superstar" sound.

Additionally, everyone (supposedly) loves Elton , so the fact that our album SOUNDS like Elton is also encouraging people to buy the album. And yeah, it does sound like Elton , although neither of us intended it to be that way when we created the album.

The favorite song on it by far seems to be "Mad Hatter" (Elyse wrote that one) which IN REALITY is a song about how autistics and parents of autistics seeking services wind up involved in some nightmarish shell game.

It's college students who love this ELTON JOHN-ish song because THEY think the song is about professors messing around with their assignments!

Ask these college kids about what they know about WHY the CD was created or what it is about, and they haven't the faintest idea.

There are plenty of other songs on that CD that are about autism. One is called "Armistice Day" but Gerry Dere himself, when he was mastering our album, put an Aboriginal tone to the song and so now Aboriginals think it is about their struggle with the Canadian government.

Then there is one of the songs I mostly wrote with Raven polishing it off. It's called "Somewhere in Detroit" and it's about this pitiful Aspie guy who can't decide whether or not to get something going with a woman he likes.

But because the refrain is "Somewhere in Detroit", it's catching on in Detroit on that basis alone.

It's like what happened with Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" song. Some senators were trying to figure out which song best represented the US. It was between "Born in the USA" and Mellencamp's "Rockin' in the USA" if I remember, and because Springsteen bellowed out "Born in the USA" the senators voted for it not realizing the whole song was trashing the US for their involvement in Vietnam and the subsequent recession.

This sort of thing is encountered by all sorts of musicians and artists and writers. Lots of people do not understand my artwork unless I explain it to them, and Raven knows BTO and a bunch of other rockers who have faced similar problems.

Raven and I are in it to spread the word about AUTISM and to help get funding to reputable organizations. But most people only pay attention to the music, or who it was that was on the album with us.

In one case, a lady I used to work with bought and album from me, and she wasn't interested that 1/3 of the cost of the album funded autism organizations and part of the remainder funded the podcasts we do....All she wanted was my autograph...AND THIS WAS A LADY I USED TO WORK WITH.

Still, I can't fault these people too much. One of my favorites off the album is "Infinity Squared." It's a beautiful song Raven wrote, and Gerry Dere souped it up to create something outstanding. I'm addicted to it, some other band wants to cover it, and it hasn't got much to do with autism, unless you look at it from the perspective of how an autistic views relationships.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

One of my favourites: If you don't stand for something, you'll fall

for everything.

Raven

Co-Administrator

>

> " We will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of

our friends "

> --MLK

>

> " If I stand up,

> If you stand up,

> Everyone will stand up "

> --Pasthun proverb/a slogan from the RAWA (Afghani women's resistance

> against the Taliban)

[Guest guest]

>

> And yet, when my own mother said to my then-5-year-old son, " I wish

> your mother had never been born " and then scowled at her own

> grandson, not one NT thought this behaviour was inappropriate or

> violent.

>

> My then-5-year-old got it. He looked at her and asked, " Are you

> saying you wish that I was never born, too? " to which she replied YES!

>

> While I don't advocate killing, my own mother killed a bit of my

> child that day and for hurting him, I can never forgive her those

> comments.

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

An adult that says such a vile thing to a child doesn't deserve

forgiveness. There is lies my definition of evil (by harming innocence)

While that may seem harsh, and i am sure you are aware of this (your

mother changed your son that day) She was able in one statement to rock

to foundation of trust in family. Nice Job grandma (mimi rolls her

eyes) The problem with NT's is quick satisfaction and cutting remarks

are not considered for the long term damage they do. How often do we

mop up these stupid one liners from well maening people.

I often say life is lived in moments (I wish that one hadn't happened)

But I am sure Cub is wize enough to give grammie a wide berth

[Guest guest]

>

> I would agree. I've gotten really angry at people before and wanted

to do

> bad things to them, but never have. The " don't hurt your own species

instinct "

> works quite well in me. There are some cases where that would be

different,

> but those are few and not likely to happen. Well, getting

burglarized (again)

> is as is being home when it happens, but even then I'd give them

fair warning

> to run before anything else happened.

>

>

>

I agree, while in my past many have hurt me, intentionally and with

malice. I have had dreams where I pulverize the offenders, I think

that gives me a feeling of justice without doing the act. I also

sometimes dream for apologies I have never recieved. Mimi

[Guest guest]

mimi wrote: " ... <snip> ... I often say life is lived in moments (I

wish that one hadn't happened). But I am sure Cub is wize enough to

give grammie a wide berth ... <snip> ... "

I wish it hadn't happened either because in that one moment, Cub's

world got smaller yet and he shut the door that says that family can

be trusted.

By Cub's choice, he hasn't seen or heard from his grandmother since

shortly after that time however he recently said to me out of the

blue, " We should find out if she's dead. " When I asked him who he

meant, he said, " You know, Grandma. "

When I asked him if he wanted to speak with her again if she is still

alive, he said he didn't. He just wanted to know if she had passed

on yet.

The sad thing about my mother's outburst all those years ago is that

she has always believed that when she's angry with someone, she can

say whatever she wants no matter how damaging her words may be and

that she should be forgiven just because she was in a bad mood at the

time.

That's not how I operate. Even when I am in a bad mood I consider

the impact my words will have on another person and whether my words

are correct and justified. If they are not, then I will not speak

what I am thinking.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

" The problem with NT's is quick satisfaction and cutting remarks

are not considered for the long term damage they do. How often do we

mop up these stupid one liners from well maening people. "

NTs say those things deliberately to hurt people, and they say it with

the intent of causing long term damage. The woman identified Cub as

different, and true to the NT ethic of making the different feel

different, she came down on him with the most cutting remark she could

think of.

" I often say life is lived in moments (I wish that one hadn't happened)

But I am sure Cub is wize enough to give grammie a wide berth. "

Nope. He still, in typical Aspie fashion, wants a relationship with

her. We're still trying to figure out how to discourage him.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... <snip> ... He still, in typical Aspie fashion,

wants a relationship with her. We're still trying to figure out how

to discourage him ... <snip> ... "

You see, Cub believes in the goodness within people and he wants to

believe that this goodness exists in his grandmother and to such a

degree that it will overcome whatever evil lives within her soul.

How do I explain to him that some people choose to remain toxic all

their lives?

His grandfather -- who I do not mind stating here was one of the

worst fathers imaginable for any child -- chose to find that goodness

within him and between them, a strong grandfather-grandson

relationship was forged (but not without the watchful eye of his

mother).

Cub believes that if his grandfather could find a way to bring the

goodness to the surface that surely his grandmother must also have

this same desire and ability.

*sigh* He will be hurt often in life, I fear, and all because he --

in true Aspie fashion -- believes the best of all people, even those

who have purposely cut him.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

I've had a similar problem the past five years where I would be friends with

or allow them to be around me various drug addicts and other bad people.

What I've had to do is keep saying in a mantra like thing that most people

don't understand: " EVERYBODY lies and EVERYBODY is a bad person " so I won't

make the mistake of trusting everyone including " used car salesmen " and

other very bad persons.

I keep being taken advantage of and have been " robbed blind " (literally and

figuratively) the last 5 years. I've lost everything because I trusted

'everyone' and kept and open mind.

The only thing that works is to keep practicing the extreme belief ( " all

people lie " " all people are evil " ) so that I won't accidentally start

believing EVERYBODY. I will still, while practicing that mantra, trust a

LOT of people and believe they are telling the truth.

I have a hard time getting it through my " thick skull " that I'm actually

assuming the person is telling the truth without questioning it. So goes

the mantra " trust no one, believe no one, follow no one, etc. " which then

keeps me from the 100% naiveté trust thinking problem.

Randy Garrett

Antioch, CA USA

-----<---{(@

Re: Tone of voice

" The problem with NT's is quick satisfaction and cutting remarks are not

considered for the long term damage they do. How often do we mop up these

stupid one liners from well maening people. "

NTs say those things deliberately to hurt people, and they say it with

the intent of causing long term damage. The woman identified Cub as

different, and true to the NT ethic of making the different feel

different, she came down on him with the most cutting remark she could

think of.

" I often say life is lived in moments (I wish that one hadn't happened) But

I am sure Cub is wize enough to give grammie a wide berth. "

Nope. He still, in typical Aspie fashion, wants a relationship with

her. We're still trying to figure out how to discourage him.

Administrator

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1:45 PM

[Guest guest]

Yea, I was taught that as a good Christian belief (this could be for the

Christian forum) as well as from other sources.

But boy have I ever found it to be [expletive deleted] wrong. The goodness

is there but it doesn't matter if that persons hurts you in any way or

amount. It's like a part of the " beaten wife syndrome " where the wife

believes her husband to be good (somewhere, somehow) " despite " the beating

her up part.

Randy Garrett

Antioch, CA USA

-----<---{(@

Re: Tone of voice

wrote: " ... <snip> ... He still, in typical Aspie fashion,

wants a relationship with her. We're still trying to figure out how

to discourage him ... <snip> ... "

You see, Cub believes in the goodness within people and he wants to

believe that this goodness exists in his grandmother and to such a

degree that it will overcome whatever evil lives within her soul.

How do I explain to him that some people choose to remain toxic all

their lives?

His grandfather -- who I do not mind stating here was one of the

worst fathers imaginable for any child -- chose to find that goodness

within him and between them, a strong grandfather-grandson

relationship was forged (but not without the watchful eye of his

mother).

Cub believes that if his grandfather could find a way to bring the

goodness to the surface that surely his grandmother must also have

this same desire and ability.

*sigh* He will be hurt often in life, I fear, and all because he --

in true Aspie fashion -- believes the best of all people, even those

who have purposely cut him.

Raven

Co-Administrator

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1:45 PM

[Guest guest]

Randy wrote: " ... <snip> ... Yea, I was taught that as a good

Christian belief (this could be for the Christian forum) as well as

from other sources.

But boy have I ever found it to be [expletive deleted] wrong. The

goodness is there but it doesn't matter if that persons hurts you in

any way or amount. It's like a part of the " beaten wife syndrome "

where the wife believes her husband to be good (somewhere,

somehow) " despite " the beating her up part ... <snip> ... "

This will sound awful but if only his grandfather had remained a

jerk, then I wouldn't have this difficulty with Cub and his wishes

and hopes about his grandmother. He would not have what you have

quite correctly referred to as the " beaten wife syndrome. "

Because his grandfather stepped up to the plate and was a very good

grandfather despite being a despicable father, Cub believes that

others -- including his grandmother -- are able to do likewise

regardless of their age. *sigh*

His grandmother, unfortunately, is not cut from the sort of cloth

where she wishes to do this in any small measure. She will continue

to hurt hin given the opportunity. So I do not give her the

opportunity.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

" Cub believes that if his grandfather could find a way to bring the

goodness to the surface that surely his grandmother must also have

this same desire and ability.

" *sigh* He will be hurt often in life, I fear, and all because he --

in true Aspie fashion -- believes the best of all people, even those

who have purposely cut him. "

Cub has a way of bringing out the best in people though. We need more

Cubs in our lives.

Er...

(Cough, cough)

I mean, we need more people like Cub in the world. Although I am not

the one to start procreating them, unfortunately.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

>

>

> How do I explain to him that some people choose to remain toxic all

> their lives?

>

> His grandfather -- who I do not mind stating here was one of the

> worst fathers imaginable for any child -- chose to find that goodness

> within him and between them, a strong grandfather-grandson

> relationship was forged (but not without the watchful eye of his

> mother).

>

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

Well I have this same problem. It is very hard because as you know if

we would just give them the right data, prove to them empiracally and

without a doubt, that it is a better way to live and they will be far

better off in the long and short run to exchange love, that they would

just do it. NT's are resistant to the truth and change (to me they

seem to adopt a mask personna and must wear it forever) they cannot

allow in new data as this would risk their masked self, they would be

lost and lose what they cling to. Cub has to tell himself that some

people refuse to change and that it can even be harmful for those

people to be proven wrong

(It is usually a catastrophic event that has to occur) just shy of

death to have some people learn. Cub has more awareness of himself and

what he wants for his own life.

Your father it seems didn't want to make the same old errors, your

mother seems happy to.

The aspie drive is to repair, throw off what is not useful (thought

wise) and adopt a new paradigm. We actually risk alot but we are more

advanced beings because of it. I am not saying he will accept this. I

cannot stand to think I have left someone behind (But the important

part is to tell him that he is not the only person who has to make

effort) He cannot choose for another. As we all know this is the

truly painful part.

To allow others to choose inncorrectly. I am sure Cub has made every

effort and he must know that he is not to blame for not having reached

her. He should know that many of us out there and even on this board

want just as much to save animals, America, The human race, children,

medicine. The list goes on. We all place unreasonable burden on

ourself trying to singlehandedly carry the pain of an entire world, and

if we were aware worlds.

well I seem to be a bit deep, but I am sure many will see themselves in

their own endless toil to show others a way to change.

I am sure many of you are wishing you knew my address to send me a

dictionary, because I would sound much better if I could spell and use

grammar correctly. Rest assured grammar is on my list for this summer.

mimi

[Guest guest]

mimi wrote: " ... <snip> ... He should know that many of us out there

and even on this board want just as much to save animals, America,

The human race, children, medicine. The list goes on. We all place

unreasonable burden on ourself trying to singlehandedly carry the

pain of an entire world, and if we were aware worlds ... <snip> ... "

That's Cub all over as well. Since he's been a toddler, he's wanted

to save animals and children especially. Even the school he is

currently attending has mentioned on more than one occasion that

Cub's compassion and caring, as well as his philanthropic acts of

kindness, are above and beyond that of his peers.

mimi wrote: " ... <snip> ... I am sure many of you are wishing you

knew my address to send me a dictionary, because I would sound much

better if I could spell and use grammar correctly. Rest assured

grammar is on my list for this summer ... <snip> ... "

I don't have a problem with your spelling or grammar, mimi. I

believe that as long as you being understood, this is what matters

most. :-)

Raven

Co-Administrator