foo estrangement - Hi Cindy

[Guest guest]

Hi, all,

My sister, , and I are close. Unfortunately, it wasn't always

that way. We were close as kids even though she was eight years older

than me. When I was in my early twenties, which would put Les at

about 30, our nada drove a wedge between Les and the rest of us kids.

I tried to not take sides, but with nada it was all or nothing. I'm

ashamed to say I chose nada. Les and I spoke on rare

occasion...birthdays, Christmas, stuff like that. It was always

strained and mostly superficial. She tried to reach out for me a

couple different times, tried to help me know the truth about nada

but, even though I could see the sense in what she said, I would be

so overcome with guilt and confusion in the days following our

conversation, that I would go back to nada with renewed resolve to

help her and do my best to maintain a healthy relationship. The chasm

between Les and me grew. This went on for twenty years. I feel such

grief over the time we lost.

Mom was everything to me. I couldn't imagine my life without her. I

spoke with her nearly every day until about three years ago. That's

about the same time that I was in the midst of a complete nervous

breakdown. I blamed it on my most recent and failing marriage, a 4-

year-old child, my compulsion to put in 60-hour work weeks in order

to dazzle my bosses. Those things contributed, no doubt, but you'll

never guess what was at the bottom of it all! Oh, wait, I'm sure

you've all guessed by now... NADA! What a witch! Sorry. Was that

inappropriate?

One day I saw myself as if I were outside myself, pacing in my

kitchen, wringing my hands. I was wearing a ratty turquoise terry-

cloth bathrobe. I was not sleeping, not eating (was down to about 103

lbs and I'm 5'8 " ). I couldn't stop crying. I was ranting to my

husband about something when I looked up and saw my young son

standing in the doorway watching me. The look in his eyes felt so

familiar. I knew just how he felt.

At that moment, I looked at my husband and told him that I needed to

make a phone call. " Are you going to call your mom? " , he asked

hopefully since he was at a loss as to what to do. " I'm calling Les " ,

I replied. A few months later, she and her husband came from Montana

to visit me in Georgia. Shortly after that, they moved closer. And

that was the beginning of a new phase in our relationship and my

recovery from years with nada. I owe Les my life. She helped me find

courage.

BTW, how can someone like me, who is so afraid all the time, be so

stubborn when it comes to authority. I understand the resentment, but

I'm amazed that I have the audacity to act out as I've done (with

everyone but nada). Do any of you experience this? I absolutely hate

it when anyone tells me what to do. Be it a SO, employer, police

officer...doesn't matter. I'm a regular rebel sometimes, which makes

no sense to me. (I know, Les...I need to finish the book.) Thank

goodness, I'm finally getting at least slightly squared away. I'm

getting too old to be so rebellious. I spent last Christmas Eve night

in jail, wearing an elf costume. Not terribly attractive on a 47-year-

old woman, d'ya think???

Love to all,

<eclecticandobscure@y...> wrote:

>

<snip> I'm so encouraged that you and Les are close. Life as a

KO doesn't always result in foo estrangement. Hooray!

[Guest guest]

You wrote: <Mom was everything to me. I couldn't imagine my life without her. I

spoke with her nearly every day until about three years ago. That's

about the same time that I was in the midst of a complete nervous

breakdown. I blamed it on my most recent and failing marriage, a 4-

year-old child, my compulsion to put in 60-hour work weeks in order

to dazzle my bosses. Those things contributed, no doubt, but you'll

never guess what was at the bottom of it all! Oh, wait, I'm sure

you've all guessed by now... NADA! >

Wow. I can relate to this to the smallest detail. I used to fear that I

couldn't live without mom, and lived in dread of her death. Now I find myself

hoping for it. I feel terrible to have such thoughts. I don't really wish

death on her personally - I just want the craziness to stop! I see her death as

one part of an end to this all. But the other part lives on in me and my sister

and brother - the perpetuation of dysfunction because of the ways of dealing

with things that we've learned from her. I haven't spoken with her in a little

over a year now (her boundary, not mine), but I still hear her voices of

criticism, shame, FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) whenever I do something that

would be a trigger to her. It's better than it was, for sure. I hope it will

continue to get better. But I must deal with my anger - there's a lot of it.

SHe had me convinced that I was so inferior and incapable, and so were everyone

else in the family, and she alone was capable and healthy and without her I was

absolutely a washout. I became addicted to achievement in an effort to " prove "

to myself and everyone else that I was capable and OK. It permeated everything

I did! On a trip to Mexico my husband, daughter and I learned to scuba dive.

They enjoyed it and did it like normal people, but I had to go on to become an

instructor (at the age of 50) to prove to myself that I was capable. I became

so obsessive about it that I turned them off from diving! That was 8 years ago,

before I knew anything about BPD. Now, I look back and am EXHAUSTED when I

think of how I ran to achieve the extreme, just to try to feel like I was normal

and OK!!! I can see that now, since I've learned about BP and myself, I have

much less compulsion to do all the projects and activities I had immersed myself

in before. At first I feared I was becoming depressed and lethargic. Now I

know I'm healing from an addiction to chaos and cumpulsive over-achievement.

[Guest guest]

You wrote: <Mom was everything to me. I couldn't imagine my life without her. I

spoke with her nearly every day until about three years ago. That's

about the same time that I was in the midst of a complete nervous

breakdown. I blamed it on my most recent and failing marriage, a 4-

year-old child, my compulsion to put in 60-hour work weeks in order

to dazzle my bosses. Those things contributed, no doubt, but you'll

never guess what was at the bottom of it all! Oh, wait, I'm sure

you've all guessed by now... NADA! >

Wow. I can relate to this to the smallest detail. I used to fear that I

couldn't live without mom, and lived in dread of her death. Now I find myself

hoping for it. I feel terrible to have such thoughts. I don't really wish

death on her personally - I just want the craziness to stop! I see her death as

one part of an end to this all. But the other part lives on in me and my sister

and brother - the perpetuation of dysfunction because of the ways of dealing

with things that we've learned from her. I haven't spoken with her in a little

over a year now (her boundary, not mine), but I still hear her voices of

criticism, shame, FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) whenever I do something that

would be a trigger to her. It's better than it was, for sure. I hope it will

continue to get better. But I must deal with my anger - there's a lot of it.

SHe had me convinced that I was so inferior and incapable, and so were everyone

else in the family, and she alone was capable and healthy and without her I was

absolutely a washout. I became addicted to achievement in an effort to " prove "

to myself and everyone else that I was capable and OK. It permeated everything

I did! On a trip to Mexico my husband, daughter and I learned to scuba dive.

They enjoyed it and did it like normal people, but I had to go on to become an

instructor (at the age of 50) to prove to myself that I was capable. I became

so obsessive about it that I turned them off from diving! That was 8 years ago,

before I knew anything about BPD. Now, I look back and am EXHAUSTED when I

think of how I ran to achieve the extreme, just to try to feel like I was normal

and OK!!! I can see that now, since I've learned about BP and myself, I have

much less compulsion to do all the projects and activities I had immersed myself

in before. At first I feared I was becoming depressed and lethargic. Now I

know I'm healing from an addiction to chaos and cumpulsive over-achievement.

[Guest guest]

Hi, ,

Al and I can relate to your over-achieving. But instead of telling us

we were not capable, and that causing us to over-achieve, she

pigeon-holed us. One was the best career woman, another the best

artist, another the most intellectual, another (me) apparently only

good at cleaning... That made us each try to excell so that we could

be the best of the best. When you are told that someone else in the

family is the 'smartest' it lets you know that they are smarter than

you are. When you have worked as a secretary but are told you cannot

do a resume for nada, only the best career woman can, it is never a

very nice thing to hear.

She drove a wedge between us all, as Al told you. She also (as you

said) told us all that she just wanted us to be best friends. That

sisters were sisters for life. Then she did everything she could to

make sure we weren't friends. She led each of us individually to

believe we were the only one she could confide in, could count on, and

that the others were a drain on her physically, emotionally, and

financially. Each of us was giving her money we couldn't afford

because she was so 'needy', but still so very proud. Oh my god. It

just sickens me.

Our nada isn't wealthy, but she also has disinherited us, and at first

it hurt because we had done so much for her and been loyal, as you

have been. Our nada has maneuvered until the youngest child is still

at home and all her assets are in his name. There will not even be a

will to contest because they own everything jointly. Like any of us

*would* contest her will. Neither my sister, Al, nor I want anything

of hers. We have both destroyed all reminders of her in our houses.

The child who is still at home with her has earned that money, believe

me, but his attitude towards us is distain and arrogance.

It may be a while before you get her out of your head. Al still hears

her when she slices potatoes ( " why are you doing it *that* way? " ) I

hear her less frequently now, but it's very hard not to hear the voice

of a person who has voiced an opinion on every minute detail of your

life. Just hang on. It does get better.

I *do* wish my nada would die. I see no hope for the rest of our

family until she does. Even then they may not have enough time left,

or the strength to do the work. Rest assured that your own children

will be better able to deal with things than you and your siblings

are. Your grandchildren will be even better. I have one

granddaughter, and I have never seen a child with such a clear look in

her eyes. She is completely happy. She feels completely safe. I

wish my own children's eyes had looked like that. My only

consolataion is that I raised her father and he has been wonderful to her.

[Guest guest]

Hi, ,

Al and I can relate to your over-achieving. But instead of telling us

we were not capable, and that causing us to over-achieve, she

pigeon-holed us. One was the best career woman, another the best

artist, another the most intellectual, another (me) apparently only

good at cleaning... That made us each try to excell so that we could

be the best of the best. When you are told that someone else in the

family is the 'smartest' it lets you know that they are smarter than

you are. When you have worked as a secretary but are told you cannot

do a resume for nada, only the best career woman can, it is never a

very nice thing to hear.

She drove a wedge between us all, as Al told you. She also (as you

said) told us all that she just wanted us to be best friends. That

sisters were sisters for life. Then she did everything she could to

make sure we weren't friends. She led each of us individually to

believe we were the only one she could confide in, could count on, and

that the others were a drain on her physically, emotionally, and

financially. Each of us was giving her money we couldn't afford

because she was so 'needy', but still so very proud. Oh my god. It

just sickens me.

Our nada isn't wealthy, but she also has disinherited us, and at first

it hurt because we had done so much for her and been loyal, as you

have been. Our nada has maneuvered until the youngest child is still

at home and all her assets are in his name. There will not even be a

will to contest because they own everything jointly. Like any of us

*would* contest her will. Neither my sister, Al, nor I want anything

of hers. We have both destroyed all reminders of her in our houses.

The child who is still at home with her has earned that money, believe

me, but his attitude towards us is distain and arrogance.

It may be a while before you get her out of your head. Al still hears

her when she slices potatoes ( " why are you doing it *that* way? " ) I

hear her less frequently now, but it's very hard not to hear the voice

of a person who has voiced an opinion on every minute detail of your

life. Just hang on. It does get better.

I *do* wish my nada would die. I see no hope for the rest of our

family until she does. Even then they may not have enough time left,

or the strength to do the work. Rest assured that your own children

will be better able to deal with things than you and your siblings

are. Your grandchildren will be even better. I have one

granddaughter, and I have never seen a child with such a clear look in

her eyes. She is completely happy. She feels completely safe. I

wish my own children's eyes had looked like that. My only

consolataion is that I raised her father and he has been wonderful to her.