Rough week with Christmas FOG approaching

December 11, 2004

Hi NonBP Family:

I called my parents on Wed night to tell them to watch for the

arrival of their Christmas gifts. For the very first time, I could

listen to nada with some distance, at first anyway. She started in

about how I probably wouldn't like the gifts she mailed that same

day, but to just return them because if she liked them or would give

them to her coworker. This woman she works with, my age and has an

18 month old baby who nada calls her grandchild (since I wont give

her any???) and used twice in the conversation as if to make me

jealous. --Lord knows that I'm not jealous. I feel bad for my

surrogate of sorts, and I'm glad nada has someone else to draw into

her gravitational field. Doesnt seem like it takes any pressure off

me though.

Somehow, nada asked me if we had heard from my BP inlaws, and I had

to tell her for the billionth time why my husband refuses contact

with them. His family told him that I poisoned his mind, stole his

career, was evil, etc. and wanted him to dump me. He tried for a

year to work things out, and then he got sick of it and dumped them

instead. I grew up listening to how nada wished that my dad would

stand up for her with her crazy mean MIL, and coached me not to

settle for a husband who couldn't cut the apron strings. Funny how

now that when faced with a nearly identical situation, it's suddenly

become wrong for my husband to resort to such measures until his

family can muster a true apology to the both of us.

Nada can't seem to retain the events that occured since I removed

myself from interraction with the inlaws. Much to my naive

stupidity, I restated the conditions that my husband established as

necessary for reconcilation. How stupid can I get. Here I am

enumerating my clearly stated boundaries and requirement for their

accountability. Nada became weird with odd pauses and sighs, then

made excuses to get off the phone. Little did I realize until the

words fell out of my mouth that I had required the same requirements

of nada after our big, summer meltdown. I started to think about

how foolish I was to discuss such a hot topic, then started picking

my cuticles veraciously.

Later that next day when I saw my psychiatrist, I essentially begged

him to tell me that I was psychotic or something in the hope that I

could take full responsibility for this garbage with nada. I asked

him if it was not possible that I had been playing him, while

actually having some far more disturbing psychotic disorder. He

assured me of what I already understand to be my diagonsis and I he

was so compassionate that I became tearful. On the way to the car,

my husband asked rhetorically how we happened to find such a

compassionate doctor. My doc's comment was deeply moving, even to

my husband. And there I am, still trying to find myself guilty of

my mother's maltreatment of me again. I went home and was kind to

myself, comforting myself with the shrink's statement of hope that

he was certain that 2005 would prove to be a much better year for

both hubby and me.

Then, the phone rings the next day... It's my godmother trying to

run interferrence for nada again. I went into a deeper description

of my symptoms and NonBP fleas, and she did agree with me. She was

wonderful to talk with on one hand, but I'm in the hot seat, trying

to resist triangulating things with my godmother. Nada called her

up and whined again, spouting out an answer for every reason that I

had for keeping my distance.

And then my godmother lets loose with the big guns: " Your mother

really wants to talk with you every day because she loves you and

misses you so much... " Funny how it's all my responsibility and

these people jump in a conversation with me, clearly prepared for me

to be aggressive. Again, I feel like I blew it under the

irresistable urge to defend myself and my behavior through this

ignorant intermediary who has clearly been influenced to believe

that I'm full of nothing but vile venom. And I did again restate my

position to her, all the while confused about whether I had a right

to discuss any of this junk with her. I mean, the subjects of my

well being and nada's meltdown overlap, and my godmother had earnest

concern about things.

So tonight, I wrote her an extensive email, asking her to quit

pushing as it only makes my anxiety worse and less tolerant of the

stress of the whole thing anyway. I also stated that calling me

intensifies the guilt and fear that nada projects by the conclusion

that I am fully responsible for this perceived rift. I am also

tempted to fall into the trap of defending myself. I also explained

that it put her in a precarious position of choosing loyalty,

possibly challenging nada's trust in her as a close friend and

confidant. I attached some links to BPD411 and some links to

coping.com concerning rescuing and caretaking, etc. I hope and pray

that she honors my request and refuses to listen to nada's blaming

garbage but can validate her emotions. I cant wait to see who nada

gets to call me next..

Anyone have any wise advice or similar experience?

k

December 12, 2004

Dear ,

Wow, they are really working you over! Have you considered that you

are being too nice to these people?

Your nada put you in a weird position with the presents.....if you

return them, you are acknowledging that you don't like what nada pick

out (can only imagine what she will do with that!), and if you keep

them, either from liking them, or from not wanting to deal with

returning, then nada is going to be able to do something with that as

well. Sheesh.....talk about a no-win situation.

As for your godmother.....good idea to send a message with your

boundaries. When/if she calls again, why don't you restate the

boundaries if she starts talking about nada? And maybe you could

think of 2 - 3 safe topics to discuss, and change the conversation to

any one of those? YOu will probably have to retrain her, too. If

she is so willing to intercede with nada, she probably has enough of

her own issues (enabler? codependent? etc.), and just stating

boundaries (which are obvious to most people) may not be enough to

get her to change. And maybe at some level she would like to get

nada off her back by getting you to do what nada wants?

Talking to nada every day?????? Oh yeah, she loves you...or is it she

loves to control you?

I am so glad that your therapist is understanding and sympathetic.

And it is also great that you husband is also supportive.

Keep on taking care of yourself....

Sylvia

>

> Hi NonBP Family:

>

> I called my parents on Wed night to tell them to watch for the

> arrival of their Christmas gifts. For the very first time, I could

> listen to nada with some distance, at first anyway. She started in

> about how I probably wouldn't like the gifts she mailed that same

> day, but to just return them because if she liked them or would

give

> them to her coworker. This woman she works with, my age and has an

> 18 month old baby who nada calls her grandchild (since I wont give

> her any???) and used twice in the conversation as if to make me

> jealous. --Lord knows that I'm not jealous. I feel bad for my

> surrogate of sorts, and I'm glad nada has someone else to draw into

> her gravitational field. Doesnt seem like it takes any pressure

off

> me though.

>

> Somehow, nada asked me if we had heard from my BP inlaws, and I had

> to tell her for the billionth time why my husband refuses contact

> with them. His family told him that I poisoned his mind, stole his

> career, was evil, etc. and wanted him to dump me. He tried for a

> year to work things out, and then he got sick of it and dumped them

> instead. I grew up listening to how nada wished that my dad would

> stand up for her with her crazy mean MIL, and coached me not to

> settle for a husband who couldn't cut the apron strings. Funny how

> now that when faced with a nearly identical situation, it's

suddenly

> become wrong for my husband to resort to such measures until his

> family can muster a true apology to the both of us.

>

> Nada can't seem to retain the events that occured since I removed

> myself from interraction with the inlaws. Much to my naive

> stupidity, I restated the conditions that my husband established as

> necessary for reconcilation. How stupid can I get. Here I am

> enumerating my clearly stated boundaries and requirement for their

> accountability. Nada became weird with odd pauses and sighs, then

> made excuses to get off the phone. Little did I realize until the

> words fell out of my mouth that I had required the same

requirements

> of nada after our big, summer meltdown. I started to think about

> how foolish I was to discuss such a hot topic, then started picking

> my cuticles veraciously.

>

> Later that next day when I saw my psychiatrist, I essentially

begged

> him to tell me that I was psychotic or something in the hope that I

> could take full responsibility for this garbage with nada. I asked

> him if it was not possible that I had been playing him, while

> actually having some far more disturbing psychotic disorder. He

> assured me of what I already understand to be my diagonsis and I he

> was so compassionate that I became tearful. On the way to the car,

> my husband asked rhetorically how we happened to find such a

> compassionate doctor. My doc's comment was deeply moving, even to

> my husband. And there I am, still trying to find myself guilty of

> my mother's maltreatment of me again. I went home and was kind to

> myself, comforting myself with the shrink's statement of hope that

> he was certain that 2005 would prove to be a much better year for

> both hubby and me.

>

> Then, the phone rings the next day... It's my godmother trying to

> run interferrence for nada again. I went into a deeper description

> of my symptoms and NonBP fleas, and she did agree with me. She was

> wonderful to talk with on one hand, but I'm in the hot seat, trying

> to resist triangulating things with my godmother. Nada called her

> up and whined again, spouting out an answer for every reason that I

> had for keeping my distance.

>

> And then my godmother lets loose with the big guns: " Your mother

> really wants to talk with you every day because she loves you and

> misses you so much... " Funny how it's all my responsibility and

> these people jump in a conversation with me, clearly prepared for

me

> to be aggressive. Again, I feel like I blew it under the

> irresistable urge to defend myself and my behavior through this

> ignorant intermediary who has clearly been influenced to believe

> that I'm full of nothing but vile venom. And I did again restate

my

> position to her, all the while confused about whether I had a right

> to discuss any of this junk with her. I mean, the subjects of my

> well being and nada's meltdown overlap, and my godmother had

earnest

> concern about things.

>

> So tonight, I wrote her an extensive email, asking her to quit

> pushing as it only makes my anxiety worse and less tolerant of the

> stress of the whole thing anyway. I also stated that calling me

> intensifies the guilt and fear that nada projects by the conclusion

> that I am fully responsible for this perceived rift. I am also

> tempted to fall into the trap of defending myself. I also

explained

> that it put her in a precarious position of choosing loyalty,

> possibly challenging nada's trust in her as a close friend and

> confidant. I attached some links to BPD411 and some links to

> coping.com concerning rescuing and caretaking, etc. I hope and

pray

> that she honors my request and refuses to listen to nada's blaming

> garbage but can validate her emotions. I cant wait to see who nada

> gets to call me next..

>

> Anyone have any wise advice or similar experience?

> k

December 12, 2004

Very similar experience....explaining for the billionth time...like

screaming at a tornado. Sucks.

Ivorysoap

December 12, 2004

Hi there,

I am new here, but have been lurking for several weeks. This has become

my safe place over the past few weeks and just reading the posts gives

me so much encouragement and validation that I am not crazy. I feel like

I could of written so many of these posts myself.

Real quick intro (haha)...if I may...I am 33 years old and have just

recently realized the my mother most likely suffers from BPD and I

believe her mother did as well. She always told my grandmother stopped

being a mother to her at the age of 15 when her mother (great-gma)

passed away. My mother also stopped " mothering " me about the same time

or at least that is about my earliest recollection of things not right.

I was the split good child, my brother was troubled and has some issues

of his own, but I was definitely the " good/perfect/wise beyond my

years " , child. I could do no wrong and I " have been the light of

mother's life " for as long as I can remember...responsible for her in

every aspect. " I " gave her peace when no one else understood her. From

about the age of 15, I was very much brought into " her world " , I

remember being told how bad everyone was around me, friends, family, my

father, my brother, etc....I never understood....but always listened and

tried to comfort and calm each situation with a solution of sorts. As a

young child I can remember wondering which parent I would choose to live

with after she threatened divorce a gazillion times....I can remember

escaping under my bed as a child, and playing with a dollhouse well

beyond the average girls my age...I wanted to have a mother that paid

attention to me, listened to me, that liked my father and treated him

nice...while the actions I imagined I wanted and played out through my

dolls were never present in my real mother.... the WORDS in real life

were always there " do as I say, not as I do " , " you know I adore you and

love you " , " I don't know how I would live in this world without you "

etc, etc.....I left home at 18 for College 2 states away and never

returned. While in college, I suffered eating disorders, started smoking

and " thought " I had all kinds of issues with my father....I wanted to

blame it on someone besides my mother....she told me all the time how

much she loved me and thought me perfect....I was her emotional

caretaker and I thought it was normal and my responsibilty at the time,

it was the only attention I could keep from her. For awhile I actually

enjoyed the voyeristic insight I had into all kinds of relationships I

knew were sacred and felt that I was privelidged to have private,

intimate information....however I did know at some level that it was

wrong and knew that there were some boundary violations. I began therapy

at about 22 to explore my eating disorder and eventually invited mother

to one of my sessions, to address general boundary issues, my therapist

had recommended that both parents attend when I felt comfortable and I

didn't think I had a problem with my coming in...afterall wouldn't she

paint me perfect?... and this was the turning point in my life....my

Mother who is also a therapist herself (conveinient for her), completely

turned on me began to tell my therapist how I never told her anything, I

was a liar and could not be trusted and basically her opinion was that I

was mentally and emotionally immature, and very rebellious to our family

values. There was NO WAY she would be confronted on anything so she " let

me have it " . It was the first time in two years I uncontrollably

cried/sobbed in a therapy session and I realized that my issues were

with her. It was actually the break-through my therapist was waiting

for! My mother completely melted when I married and that is actually

where all the " awareness " of other abusive behaviors came to light for

me. Became very difficult when I planned my wedding and let me know

that it was " MY CHOICE, to marry out of the state she lived in and that

I would have to live with the consequences " My whole extended family and

friends were in the state I was married in as was my husbands, and I had

lived in the state for 6 years and SHE had encouraged it. Just that

changing from day to day thing really started to rear its head to me and

ring a bell.

Skip ahead....I became pregnant with my 2 child, and had a 2 year old

child....my husband was involved in a car accident the same day he found

out his father was diagnosed with terminal cancer. My mother has now

decided that emotional caretaking has not gotten her anyway and has now

become sick and is over medicating. My husband ends up having brain

surgery....I call out to my mother...she is not there and is telling

other foo that " I " can handle it. Husband is fine the stress

continues....my fil passes away, my mother never calls, and doesn't come

to the funeral.....she claims it brings up to many bad memories for her

and her father's passing.

This is the last straw on top of the phone calls of " I am so sick but

the dr's can't find anything wrong with me, I have Fibromyalgia and so

do you " , (um no, I ache all over because I am pregnant) " nobody

understands me " , back to leaving my father again, etc...and sometimes

not even coherent, but " please call me everyday, it is the only thing

that gets me through the day " ! I decide to write her a note and take a

break from the relationship.....I can't describe how much I

grieved.....I never knew until life handed me situations where I

" needed " her to be there for me and the rejection ALWAYS followed or

somehow my situation would fuel her into martyr or hero situation and I

was to be reminded of it for years as if it happened the day before.

This was the first time I said NO MORE and had taken a stance. I have

become distant since then and the emotional blackmail, manipulation and

our latest and newest.....spiritual abuse has almost become unbearable.

She has forgotten my birthday a couple of times...my husbands. She will

tell me she has " the best " presents for my children and they never

come.....nothing is EVER her fault. She is now older and " sicker " , the

Dr.'s are GODS one day and completely stupid and she is suing the

next...then goes back to them. The verbal assaults and judgments on

those around her have become all she talks about and now she has gotten

into letter writing to tell people off for all the hurt they have

inflicted on her throughout her life. She visited me about a month ago

and it had been 2 years since we had been in my home. She was not well

at all and I should have known, but she cornered me and began asking me

questions about why I left home when I was 18....deep questions, most of

which were either irrelevent or none of her business....all in the name

of she knew she was depressed and having issues and if she could only

understand maybe that would help, she sobbed and begged forgiveness, but

she seemed so clear headed about it.......BIG MISTAKE! She left after a

few more days, we spoke on the phone, things were good...I am foolishly

thinking, " hey maybe she really does want help and this could be our new

start.. and..I feel good for getting things off my chest, maybe this is

the beginning of an open honest relationship....etc....! WHAMMMMO I am

hit with an e-mail from HELL....what a selfish, ungrateful daughter I

am, I am ungodly, a bad mother, would I please get my Bible out and

begin studying verses that have to do with HONORING your father and

Mother......that she never corrected me enough as child because she

mistakenly thought that " I would get it " . I never come to visit her and

how she used to fly to see her parents even when she couldn't afford it

as part of her honoring them. How she always knew I had displaced

anger.... This is just a peek of what shook me to my core and led me to

this list....SWOE, and other books.... I made no defense, no contact at

all the next couple of weeks. Now just this week.... I being barraged

with gifts for my children. SHe sent me a birthday card with $100 check,

(my birthday was in May)...no apologies only a note that said " I know

what its like to be forgotten " . Anniversary and THanksgiving cards (all

late) have also arrived with strange letters attatched....no apologies,

just kind of loaded statements " I love and adore you and nothing will

ever change that " . Totally setting me up again. She called me 2 days ago

on my cellphone and left a message that she needed to talk to me right

away, had some news and then sobbed " I really need to hear your

voice " .....WHY DO I FALL FOR THIS???? I called her back...and it is just

more of the same health stuff...she " has to " explain to me.... and THAT

is why she acted so cruel while she was visiting. Not once did she

mention the e-mail...not once did she even ask how I was feeling....and

not once did she take responsibility....but she " begs for my

forgiveness " . This is where I struggle.....I did not react at all to any

of her news...just said " uh, huh " .....and I think I said " I hope you get

it all worked out " , and that " I am working on forgiveness in my own

time. " Of course now I feel guilty for not being compassionate and I

just wish I could get her and this whole thing out of my head. I just

don't know how to react anymore....I did call her back knowing that

whatever I did would be perceived as wrong, and I felt as long as I was

comfortable with knowing that....it didn't really matter how I responded.

ANyway, SO SORRY that was so long.......again I appreciate the support I

have been reading here and hope to offer some as well!!!

Thanks for listening....reading.... and Cyndi, I know I didn't offer

much advice, but I totally related to your experience have experience

that same kind of " pot calling the kettle black " judgement...it is

amazing....sometimes I listen to it and think " you have to be kidding

me...this is a joke, right? " I guess that's just part of it and when

she does begin speaking and I feel like turning the mirror around so

that she can see herself...it's actually on odd sense of validation for

me... to just how ill she really is.

tx