Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Dan, I don't know what to say to your posting. I sense your deep pain, and it touches me. I just want to say " I hear you, Dan. I'm listening. " By amputee, I understand you mean cutting off from nada, correct? I don't know your situation, but I hope that if you do become an amputee that you feel support in this group. Bartnazor > Ever since I can remember, I have thought of myself as someone who > needs to be an amputee. I haven't taken the necessary steps to > become one because I keep hoping I will find a simpler way to deal > with my discomfort. I am sitting on an uncomfortable fence and I > cannot get off. > > On the right side the ground is visible and within reach. I can get > off the fence on that side by becoming an amputee. I will be free > of this burden, free to be me, but I will have to put up with > disability and disapproval. > > On the left side is a black void. I cannot see what is there but I > fear it is death, waiting to take me if I dare to tell myself that I > will not become an amputee. > > In the last week I have begun to be able to visualize something in > the void. It is a terrible witch, waiting for me and tripping me > whenever I try to make a move towards freedom. The witch is made of > the things my mother taught me when I was too little to defend > myself from them. " You are not good enough " . " You are not like > other people " . " Nobody will ever love you " . " You do not have the > right to be free " . " You will never succeed at anything " . " You will > wish to die and go to oblivion " . > > This witch is powerful. She has my mother's characteristic that > nobody has successfully stood up to her. She believes she in > invincible. She wants to suck out my soul and keep my body as a > slave. She is willing to kill me if she cannot do that. She can > literally kill me, by plunging me into a suicidal depression. > > When I first began to run and play, my mother threatened me, " Don't > do that, you will break your leg " . To me this meant breaking it > off, and I associated breaking my leg off with freedom from my > mother. Visualizing myself with a leg broken off became my only > protection from my mother's spells. > > If I get off the fence on the left side - that is, decide not to > become an amputee - I will have to face the witch. I will literally > risk death. When the thought comes to me that I do not really need > to become an amputee, I am soon overwhelmed with depression because > the witch begins to have a hold on me. > > My therapist says that if I get off the fence on the amputee side, I > will find the witch there also. I think he is wrong, because all my > life I have managed to defend that territory from the witch. > > I fear that if I fight the witch, it will be a fight to the death. > I am not strong enough now to win the fight. I am staying on the > fence. Now that I can see the witch, I am looking for her > weaknesses. Maybe I can find a way to emulate the crippled god > Hephaestus, and lure her into a trap where she will be bound. > > - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Dan, I don't know what to say to your posting. I sense your deep pain, and it touches me. I just want to say " I hear you, Dan. I'm listening. " By amputee, I understand you mean cutting off from nada, correct? I don't know your situation, but I hope that if you do become an amputee that you feel support in this group. Bartnazor > Ever since I can remember, I have thought of myself as someone who > needs to be an amputee. I haven't taken the necessary steps to > become one because I keep hoping I will find a simpler way to deal > with my discomfort. I am sitting on an uncomfortable fence and I > cannot get off. > > On the right side the ground is visible and within reach. I can get > off the fence on that side by becoming an amputee. I will be free > of this burden, free to be me, but I will have to put up with > disability and disapproval. > > On the left side is a black void. I cannot see what is there but I > fear it is death, waiting to take me if I dare to tell myself that I > will not become an amputee. > > In the last week I have begun to be able to visualize something in > the void. It is a terrible witch, waiting for me and tripping me > whenever I try to make a move towards freedom. The witch is made of > the things my mother taught me when I was too little to defend > myself from them. " You are not good enough " . " You are not like > other people " . " Nobody will ever love you " . " You do not have the > right to be free " . " You will never succeed at anything " . " You will > wish to die and go to oblivion " . > > This witch is powerful. She has my mother's characteristic that > nobody has successfully stood up to her. She believes she in > invincible. She wants to suck out my soul and keep my body as a > slave. She is willing to kill me if she cannot do that. She can > literally kill me, by plunging me into a suicidal depression. > > When I first began to run and play, my mother threatened me, " Don't > do that, you will break your leg " . To me this meant breaking it > off, and I associated breaking my leg off with freedom from my > mother. Visualizing myself with a leg broken off became my only > protection from my mother's spells. > > If I get off the fence on the left side - that is, decide not to > become an amputee - I will have to face the witch. I will literally > risk death. When the thought comes to me that I do not really need > to become an amputee, I am soon overwhelmed with depression because > the witch begins to have a hold on me. > > My therapist says that if I get off the fence on the amputee side, I > will find the witch there also. I think he is wrong, because all my > life I have managed to defend that territory from the witch. > > I fear that if I fight the witch, it will be a fight to the death. > I am not strong enough now to win the fight. I am staying on the > fence. Now that I can see the witch, I am looking for her > weaknesses. Maybe I can find a way to emulate the crippled god > Hephaestus, and lure her into a trap where she will be bound. > > - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Hi Dan, It really is astonishing what the mind can create, such images of exquiste beauty. It is interesting that your mind chose to depict one side of the fence dominated by the witch. In my book the witch's side personifies life; we have to fully (partially) understand it if we are to make complete (some) sense of it. Also in my book it takes many years to make any headway for we seldom have any guides (parents are often not good guides for all they have demonstrated is a capacity to reproduce) to help us with our journey. However there are some guides who lived long ago, commonly referred to as " sages " and some modern day guides (who may have died within the last century). We do live in a good time for the sage's and modern day guide's words are accessible and we frequently have long enough lives that their words do make a diffence in ours. Good luck to you for life demands much of us. Please take only what is useful to you and leave the rest. Many blessings, M.R. > Ever since I can remember, I have thought of myself as someone who > needs to be an amputee. I haven't taken the necessary steps to > become one because I keep hoping I will find a simpler way to deal > with my discomfort. I am sitting on an uncomfortable fence and I > cannot get off. > > On the right side the ground is visible and within reach. I can get > off the fence on that side by becoming an amputee. I will be free > of this burden, free to be me, but I will have to put up with > disability and disapproval. > > On the left side is a black void. I cannot see what is there but I > fear it is death, waiting to take me if I dare to tell myself that I > will not become an amputee. > > In the last week I have begun to be able to visualize something in > the void. It is a terrible witch, waiting for me and tripping me > whenever I try to make a move towards freedom. The witch is made of > the things my mother taught me when I was too little to defend > myself from them. " You are not good enough " . " You are not like > other people " . " Nobody will ever love you " . " You do not have the > right to be free " . " You will never succeed at anything " . " You will > wish to die and go to oblivion " . > > This witch is powerful. She has my mother's characteristic that > nobody has successfully stood up to her. She believes she in > invincible. She wants to suck out my soul and keep my body as a > slave. She is willing to kill me if she cannot do that. She can > literally kill me, by plunging me into a suicidal depression. > > When I first began to run and play, my mother threatened me, " Don't > do that, you will break your leg " . To me this meant breaking it > off, and I associated breaking my leg off with freedom from my > mother. Visualizing myself with a leg broken off became my only > protection from my mother's spells. > > If I get off the fence on the left side - that is, decide not to > become an amputee - I will have to face the witch. I will literally > risk death. When the thought comes to me that I do not really need > to become an amputee, I am soon overwhelmed with depression because > the witch begins to have a hold on me. > > My therapist says that if I get off the fence on the amputee side, I > will find the witch there also. I think he is wrong, because all my > life I have managed to defend that territory from the witch. > > I fear that if I fight the witch, it will be a fight to the death. > I am not strong enough now to win the fight. I am staying on the > fence. Now that I can see the witch, I am looking for her > weaknesses. Maybe I can find a way to emulate the crippled god > Hephaestus, and lure her into a trap where she will be bound. > > - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Hi Dan, It really is astonishing what the mind can create, such images of exquiste beauty. It is interesting that your mind chose to depict one side of the fence dominated by the witch. In my book the witch's side personifies life; we have to fully (partially) understand it if we are to make complete (some) sense of it. Also in my book it takes many years to make any headway for we seldom have any guides (parents are often not good guides for all they have demonstrated is a capacity to reproduce) to help us with our journey. However there are some guides who lived long ago, commonly referred to as " sages " and some modern day guides (who may have died within the last century). We do live in a good time for the sage's and modern day guide's words are accessible and we frequently have long enough lives that their words do make a diffence in ours. Good luck to you for life demands much of us. Please take only what is useful to you and leave the rest. Many blessings, M.R. > Ever since I can remember, I have thought of myself as someone who > needs to be an amputee. I haven't taken the necessary steps to > become one because I keep hoping I will find a simpler way to deal > with my discomfort. I am sitting on an uncomfortable fence and I > cannot get off. > > On the right side the ground is visible and within reach. I can get > off the fence on that side by becoming an amputee. I will be free > of this burden, free to be me, but I will have to put up with > disability and disapproval. > > On the left side is a black void. I cannot see what is there but I > fear it is death, waiting to take me if I dare to tell myself that I > will not become an amputee. > > In the last week I have begun to be able to visualize something in > the void. It is a terrible witch, waiting for me and tripping me > whenever I try to make a move towards freedom. The witch is made of > the things my mother taught me when I was too little to defend > myself from them. " You are not good enough " . " You are not like > other people " . " Nobody will ever love you " . " You do not have the > right to be free " . " You will never succeed at anything " . " You will > wish to die and go to oblivion " . > > This witch is powerful. She has my mother's characteristic that > nobody has successfully stood up to her. She believes she in > invincible. She wants to suck out my soul and keep my body as a > slave. She is willing to kill me if she cannot do that. She can > literally kill me, by plunging me into a suicidal depression. > > When I first began to run and play, my mother threatened me, " Don't > do that, you will break your leg " . To me this meant breaking it > off, and I associated breaking my leg off with freedom from my > mother. Visualizing myself with a leg broken off became my only > protection from my mother's spells. > > If I get off the fence on the left side - that is, decide not to > become an amputee - I will have to face the witch. I will literally > risk death. When the thought comes to me that I do not really need > to become an amputee, I am soon overwhelmed with depression because > the witch begins to have a hold on me. > > My therapist says that if I get off the fence on the amputee side, I > will find the witch there also. I think he is wrong, because all my > life I have managed to defend that territory from the witch. > > I fear that if I fight the witch, it will be a fight to the death. > I am not strong enough now to win the fight. I am staying on the > fence. Now that I can see the witch, I am looking for her > weaknesses. Maybe I can find a way to emulate the crippled god > Hephaestus, and lure her into a trap where she will be bound. > > - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Dan, Like bartnazor, I want to let you know: I hear you and I care. This might not be helpful or meaningful to you, because I have not experienced the need to be an amputee, but your description of the fence and your mindset--well, it reminded me in some ways of something I went through, and also how I ended up dealing with it. Years ago, after graduating early from high school (a boarding school) I had to go home to live for 8 months before starting college. I hadn't lived at " home " since I was 13, and I had done fairly well away from the FOO. Anyway, without giving the long details of what it was like to be " home " again, I went into a very deep suicidal depression, now that I was in my parents' " clutches " again--subject to their rages and their unpredictability and their emotional and physical abuse. Here is what reminded me of your description of the fence and your options: (It kinda scares me to be this self-revelatory, but here goes.) Every day I woke up wanting to be dead, and that feeling continued in the back of my mind, virtually all the time. I actually felt it was a NEED. I NEEDED to be dead, to be free of both of them. (The fact that I could go to college, if I lasted the 8 months at home, and the idea that I might possibly be happy again, were pretty much lost on me. I didn't believe I would ever be happy again, or want to live.) So it's kind of like, the one side of the fence, the easier, clearer, simpler side, where I could see the outcome and be free of my parents, involved dying. I definitely knew I would be free of them and be free of my pain if I went that route. The other side of the fence--the darker, murkier, more uncertain, scarier side involved staying alive and, like you, I felt my parents were on that side waiting to destroy me (figuratively, with all they had done to damage me to that point, and how difficult they made it to even plan to go on living). Here is how it turned out, for me: I had my suicide plan all ready and prepared. This was, ironically (maybe hard to understand) my " security blanket " --I told myself, if things got too painful then yes, I could implement my plan, and having an actual workable concrete plan brought me great comfort. This probably sounds weird but it did work for me. When I felt in enough pain (which was basically all the time) I would tell myself, " Yes, you can kill yourself if you want to, LATER. You really can, but LATER. " I don't know why this " LATER " game worked, by the way, but giving myself permission to want it, and having my " security blanket " plan in place, allowed me to go on living at that time, as difficult and painful as it was. Why did I ultimately choose to go on living when I *genuinely* didn't want to? I'm not 100% sure, but I know part of the reason was that I thought if I killed myself, somehow I was letting my parents " win " ... Split bad as I was, I knew I would be split bad for all eternity: " the fxxked-up kid who killed herself " ...with no one (ie, me) to show or to prove that I wasn't " all bad. " Also, I envisioned them at my funeral, but especially nada, and how much she would enjoy the drama and the sympathy of being the poor-dear- " mother " -of-the-bad-girl-who-killed-herself. Ha, I was in that much pain, but I chose to go on living rather than give her the enjoyment and attention and sympathy my death would bring... Re: > My therapist says that if I get off the fence on the amputee side, I > will find the witch there also. I think he is wrong, because all my > life I have managed to defend that territory from the witch. I am not *sure* what your therapist means of course, but I wonder if he is thinking that if you become an amputee, somehow your nada and/or the witch will have won on some level, and you will live with that aspect of it (the nada/witch victory) forever? If you choose that route to your freedom (just as if I had chosen death as mine), it will be the route to " freedom " that our nadas led us to and so, in some sense, *chose for us*? Your situation is very different from mine, and I can't know your circumstances, but only tell you about mine. Re: > I fear that if I fight the witch, it will be a fight to the death. > I am not strong enough now to win the fight. I am staying on the > fence. Now that I can see the witch, I am looking for her > weaknesses. Maybe I can find a way to emulate the crippled god > Hephaestus, and lure her into a trap where she will be bound. I guess that is what I am saying worked for me, saying " I am staying on this fence as long as I like; yes, I do have this real option to freedom and I can exercise it at any time, " until I felt strong enough not to need it, and it faded away on its own. One way I " fought my witch, " eventually, was by building a family different from my FOO. Being part of a happy, loving family was my best revenge (so to speak--I don't feel vengeful anymore) and my best therapy. It was also a route to freedom, of a different kind, but it was one *chosen by me*, not by my ill nada--not only " chosen " by me, but more than that, it was something that really originated *totally from within myself* and not from the pain that had been sown in me by my FOO. Of course, each person's ultimate route to freedom will be different. This sounds so neat and easy, and it was not, of course. I wrestled with the suicide demons (off and on, to varying degrees) for another 11 or 12 years, before I got off the fence for sure and let my security blanket go for good. (Wow, a triply-mixed metaphor (!!!), which gives kind of an amusing mental picture! Ack! LOL Welllll, you get my overall meaning...) It was a gradual, and not easy, process. This is a totally different experience from yours, Dan, but your post did remind me of it, and even if it doesn't seem helpful to you, I'm still thinking of you and wishing you well. -Kari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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