Re: The need to understand and resolve everything

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I think we KO's are very sensitive to criticism (real or perceived,

of course, what is the difference?) and I too struggle with just

letting it go because my fragile inner child reacts and feels

unworthy, unloved, etc. The worst thing I can do is to beat myself

up for not reacting " right " or for not being able to let things go.

We should have more compassion for ourselves and more understanding

of why we " overreact " . It is because we lived in a world of abuse

and extremes and had to be hypervigilant to attack because we WERE

attacked by nada.

Probably the best thing I can do is to tell my inner child that she

has done nothing wrong, that nobody is attacking her and realize

that she has lived through an emotional battlefield and let her know

I understand why she is so sensitive.

In this way, I probably am similar to a bpd, but it is how I choose

to handle it that sets me apart. I always remember that bpd behavior

is similar to that of a small child and when I feel unworthy and bad

as a person it is my inner child lost in the darkness. The worst

thing I can do is yell at her for being frightened.

It is a balancing act to support her feelings while also weighing my

intellectual thoughts about the situation. Too much of either side

leads to problems. Once I comfort the frightened child within I

start to feel better and more calm and that is something I must give

to my self which reinforces the fact that I have control over how I

feel and I can stop giving away my power to other people. It really

has very little to do with them. They are actually helping me to

heal if I am able and ready to receive it.

Take care,

>

> Hi all,

>

> I have a question for the listmind. We have company this weekend,

my

> sis-in-law and her fiance, who we are close to and generally get

> along fabulously with. When sis-in-law and my husband get

together,

> sometimes they can get a little critical and/or bossy - this isn't

a

> big deal and usually I can manage it fine, but yesterday I felt

they

> went a bit overboard and I flared up at them both. My husband and

I

> had a short discussion about it, he said that sometimes I am a

> little too sensitive, and he asked me to let it go. Well, I told

him

> that sounded way too much like asking me to ignore my feelings. He

> said that sometimes, with the smaller things, you just have

to " roll

> with it " . I struggled between feeling angry at him and being

> embarrassed about flaring up over something so trivial. This

morning

> I'm still struggling with it. I feel like I got " stuck " there

> because it hasn't been resolved.

>

> I realized that this might very well be what nada goes through in

> her mental processing - when faced with something that upsets her

or

> she doesn't understand, she thinks that there are only two

> conlusions: 1) It's her fault for being upset, she caused the

> problem in the first place or reacted wrong, and therefore she

> should be embarrassed/ashamed, or 2) Someone else is making her

feel

> bad about herself unjustly, and therefore she should be angry. She

> gets " stuck " , fixated on it, until she feels better about herself,

> and that usually means punishing the offender in some way. Or she

> runs away, which might be those few times when she chooses option

1.

>

> So I'm struggling with this. In the past I've always felt a huge

> need to understand absolutely everything coming from the people I

> trust - every expression or comment that isn't straightforward

will

> bother me until I ask about it. I have to resolve every tiff,

every

> annoyance, every bad feeling in either myself or the other person

in

> order to feel " right " again. Up until now this has been ok,

because

> there were only a very, very few people in my life who I trusted

> enough to be close to, and they are generally open, communicative

> people.

>

> But as my circle grows wider, I think maybe I need to learn how to

> let those little things slide by, without having to pick them all

> apart. Otherwise I think I'll drive myself and everyone around me

> crazy! But how to do this? Coming from a childhood that was very

> confusing and where nothing was ever resolved, how do I allow for

> the small things to remain confusing and unresolved? Is this a

flea?

> Does anyone else have trouble with this?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I think we KO's are very sensitive to criticism (real or perceived,

of course, what is the difference?) and I too struggle with just

letting it go because my fragile inner child reacts and feels

unworthy, unloved, etc. The worst thing I can do is to beat myself

up for not reacting " right " or for not being able to let things go.

We should have more compassion for ourselves and more understanding

of why we " overreact " . It is because we lived in a world of abuse

and extremes and had to be hypervigilant to attack because we WERE

attacked by nada.

Probably the best thing I can do is to tell my inner child that she

has done nothing wrong, that nobody is attacking her and realize

that she has lived through an emotional battlefield and let her know

I understand why she is so sensitive.

In this way, I probably am similar to a bpd, but it is how I choose

to handle it that sets me apart. I always remember that bpd behavior

is similar to that of a small child and when I feel unworthy and bad

as a person it is my inner child lost in the darkness. The worst

thing I can do is yell at her for being frightened.

It is a balancing act to support her feelings while also weighing my

intellectual thoughts about the situation. Too much of either side

leads to problems. Once I comfort the frightened child within I

start to feel better and more calm and that is something I must give

to my self which reinforces the fact that I have control over how I

feel and I can stop giving away my power to other people. It really

has very little to do with them. They are actually helping me to

heal if I am able and ready to receive it.

Take care,

>

> Hi all,

>

> I have a question for the listmind. We have company this weekend,

my

> sis-in-law and her fiance, who we are close to and generally get

> along fabulously with. When sis-in-law and my husband get

together,

> sometimes they can get a little critical and/or bossy - this isn't

a

> big deal and usually I can manage it fine, but yesterday I felt

they

> went a bit overboard and I flared up at them both. My husband and

I

> had a short discussion about it, he said that sometimes I am a

> little too sensitive, and he asked me to let it go. Well, I told

him

> that sounded way too much like asking me to ignore my feelings. He

> said that sometimes, with the smaller things, you just have

to " roll

> with it " . I struggled between feeling angry at him and being

> embarrassed about flaring up over something so trivial. This

morning

> I'm still struggling with it. I feel like I got " stuck " there

> because it hasn't been resolved.

>

> I realized that this might very well be what nada goes through in

> her mental processing - when faced with something that upsets her

or

> she doesn't understand, she thinks that there are only two

> conlusions: 1) It's her fault for being upset, she caused the

> problem in the first place or reacted wrong, and therefore she

> should be embarrassed/ashamed, or 2) Someone else is making her

feel

> bad about herself unjustly, and therefore she should be angry. She

> gets " stuck " , fixated on it, until she feels better about herself,

> and that usually means punishing the offender in some way. Or she

> runs away, which might be those few times when she chooses option

1.

>

> So I'm struggling with this. In the past I've always felt a huge

> need to understand absolutely everything coming from the people I

> trust - every expression or comment that isn't straightforward

will

> bother me until I ask about it. I have to resolve every tiff,

every

> annoyance, every bad feeling in either myself or the other person

in

> order to feel " right " again. Up until now this has been ok,

because

> there were only a very, very few people in my life who I trusted

> enough to be close to, and they are generally open, communicative

> people.

>

> But as my circle grows wider, I think maybe I need to learn how to

> let those little things slide by, without having to pick them all

> apart. Otherwise I think I'll drive myself and everyone around me

> crazy! But how to do this? Coming from a childhood that was very

> confusing and where nothing was ever resolved, how do I allow for

> the small things to remain confusing and unresolved? Is this a

flea?

> Does anyone else have trouble with this?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

This sounds like a flea from having had a nada. Some KOs tend to

overscrutinize trivia because that's what our nada forced us to do in

justifying stuff. Some of our nadas needed us to do that and they'd rev

us until we did. And then it became a habit. I can remember my teacher

in the 5th grade telling me that I should become a lawyer. I stopped

doing that after being on these lists for awhile and getting the BPD

monitor in my head adjusted.

- Edith

sherby2k wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> I have a question for the listmind. We have company this weekend, my

> sis-in-law and her fiance, who we are close to and generally get

> along fabulously with. When sis-in-law and my husband get together,

> sometimes they can get a little critical and/or bossy - this isn't a

> big deal and usually I can manage it fine, but yesterday I felt they

> went a bit overboard and I flared up at them both. My husband and I

> had a short discussion about it, he said that sometimes I am a

> little too sensitive, and he asked me to let it go. Well, I told him

> that sounded way too much like asking me to ignore my feelings. He

> said that sometimes, with the smaller things, you just have to " roll

> with it " . I struggled between feeling angry at him and being

> embarrassed about flaring up over something so trivial. This morning

> I'm still struggling with it. I feel like I got " stuck " there

> because it hasn't been resolved.

>

> I realized that this might very well be what nada goes through in

> her mental processing - when faced with something that upsets her or

> she doesn't understand, she thinks that there are only two

> conlusions: 1) It's her fault for being upset, she caused the

> problem in the first place or reacted wrong, and therefore she

> should be embarrassed/ashamed, or 2) Someone else is making her feel

> bad about herself unjustly, and therefore she should be angry. She

> gets " stuck " , fixated on it, until she feels better about herself,

> and that usually means punishing the offender in some way. Or she

> runs away, which might be those few times when she chooses option 1.

>

> So I'm struggling with this. In the past I've always felt a huge

> need to understand absolutely everything coming from the people I

> trust - every expression or comment that isn't straightforward will

> bother me until I ask about it. I have to resolve every tiff, every

> annoyance, every bad feeling in either myself or the other person in

> order to feel " right " again. Up until now this has been ok, because

> there were only a very, very few people in my life who I trusted

> enough to be close to, and they are generally open, communicative

> people.

>

> But as my circle grows wider, I think maybe I need to learn how to

> let those little things slide by, without having to pick them all

> apart. Otherwise I think I'll drive myself and everyone around me

> crazy! But how to do this? Coming from a childhood that was very

> confusing and where nothing was ever resolved, how do I allow for

> the small things to remain confusing and unresolved? Is this a flea?

> Does anyone else have trouble with this?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

This sounds like a flea from having had a nada. Some KOs tend to

overscrutinize trivia because that's what our nada forced us to do in

justifying stuff. Some of our nadas needed us to do that and they'd rev

us until we did. And then it became a habit. I can remember my teacher

in the 5th grade telling me that I should become a lawyer. I stopped

doing that after being on these lists for awhile and getting the BPD

monitor in my head adjusted.

- Edith

sherby2k wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> I have a question for the listmind. We have company this weekend, my

> sis-in-law and her fiance, who we are close to and generally get

> along fabulously with. When sis-in-law and my husband get together,

> sometimes they can get a little critical and/or bossy - this isn't a

> big deal and usually I can manage it fine, but yesterday I felt they

> went a bit overboard and I flared up at them both. My husband and I

> had a short discussion about it, he said that sometimes I am a

> little too sensitive, and he asked me to let it go. Well, I told him

> that sounded way too much like asking me to ignore my feelings. He

> said that sometimes, with the smaller things, you just have to " roll

> with it " . I struggled between feeling angry at him and being

> embarrassed about flaring up over something so trivial. This morning

> I'm still struggling with it. I feel like I got " stuck " there

> because it hasn't been resolved.

>

> I realized that this might very well be what nada goes through in

> her mental processing - when faced with something that upsets her or

> she doesn't understand, she thinks that there are only two

> conlusions: 1) It's her fault for being upset, she caused the

> problem in the first place or reacted wrong, and therefore she

> should be embarrassed/ashamed, or 2) Someone else is making her feel

> bad about herself unjustly, and therefore she should be angry. She

> gets " stuck " , fixated on it, until she feels better about herself,

> and that usually means punishing the offender in some way. Or she

> runs away, which might be those few times when she chooses option 1.

>

> So I'm struggling with this. In the past I've always felt a huge

> need to understand absolutely everything coming from the people I

> trust - every expression or comment that isn't straightforward will

> bother me until I ask about it. I have to resolve every tiff, every

> annoyance, every bad feeling in either myself or the other person in

> order to feel " right " again. Up until now this has been ok, because

> there were only a very, very few people in my life who I trusted

> enough to be close to, and they are generally open, communicative

> people.

>

> But as my circle grows wider, I think maybe I need to learn how to

> let those little things slide by, without having to pick them all

> apart. Otherwise I think I'll drive myself and everyone around me

> crazy! But how to do this? Coming from a childhood that was very

> confusing and where nothing was ever resolved, how do I allow for

> the small things to remain confusing and unresolved? Is this a flea?

> Does anyone else have trouble with this?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sylvia,

I guess maybe that's where I'm running into trouble. Because

everything FEELS important, when I'm in the middle of something like

this. I feel like if I let it go, I'm betraying something of myself.

I like how you said it, " challenge myself to let it go " - I think

that's exactly right. And hard to do.

Hmm. I read your reply earlier today and walked away to think about

it. Initially I saw it as me overreacting to a trivial thing, but

after thinking about it I realized why I reacted the way I did -

they were being critical over how I was putting up the Christmas

decorations. Christmas as a KO has always been stressful to me.

Putting up Christmas decorations with nada always, always, always

ended up in some sort of screaming fight or point of criticism or

something similarly negative. This year, I was really looking

forward to putting up my own decorations, for the first

time " officially " in our new home (last year we had just moved in),

and I very much wanted it to be joyous and relaxing and fun. They

were bugging me to do it faster, making comments about doing it

wrong, and now I can see why it made me as angry as it did.

I feel they were being insensitive, as they both know about my

childhood junk, but I also know they didn't mean it quite the way it

sounded. It wasn't important in itself, but it WAS important to me

for what it meant.

That's what I find hard - navigating through these little things

when they're little things, but in some ways, big things (but other

people wouldn't understand WHY they're big things). Maybe it just

takes practice?

Thanks,

> As with everything else, my changes in this area came gradually.

And > I had to challenge myself to 'let it go'. One thing that did

help me > here was to clearly understand what was important to me in

each > relationship. And also what was important to me in the sense

of > being true to myself. ... What really seemed to help in this

case was to treat them respectfully and try to understand where the

other person was coming from, and to not take their actions

personally.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sylvia,

I guess maybe that's where I'm running into trouble. Because

everything FEELS important, when I'm in the middle of something like

this. I feel like if I let it go, I'm betraying something of myself.

I like how you said it, " challenge myself to let it go " - I think

that's exactly right. And hard to do.

Hmm. I read your reply earlier today and walked away to think about

it. Initially I saw it as me overreacting to a trivial thing, but

after thinking about it I realized why I reacted the way I did -

they were being critical over how I was putting up the Christmas

decorations. Christmas as a KO has always been stressful to me.

Putting up Christmas decorations with nada always, always, always

ended up in some sort of screaming fight or point of criticism or

something similarly negative. This year, I was really looking

forward to putting up my own decorations, for the first

time " officially " in our new home (last year we had just moved in),

and I very much wanted it to be joyous and relaxing and fun. They

were bugging me to do it faster, making comments about doing it

wrong, and now I can see why it made me as angry as it did.

I feel they were being insensitive, as they both know about my

childhood junk, but I also know they didn't mean it quite the way it

sounded. It wasn't important in itself, but it WAS important to me

for what it meant.

That's what I find hard - navigating through these little things

when they're little things, but in some ways, big things (but other

people wouldn't understand WHY they're big things). Maybe it just

takes practice?

Thanks,

> As with everything else, my changes in this area came gradually.

And > I had to challenge myself to 'let it go'. One thing that did

help me > here was to clearly understand what was important to me in

each > relationship. And also what was important to me in the sense

of > being true to myself. ... What really seemed to help in this

case was to treat them respectfully and try to understand where the

other person was coming from, and to not take their actions

personally.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I try to be careful these days never to sacrifice the feelings of my

inner child for the sake of a relationship. Is there ever a time

when the opposite is true? What I mean is, when it comes to a

healthy, loving relationship, is it ever appropriate to perhaps

temper the feelings of my inner child (not ignore them, but maybe

moderate them?) for the sake of a relationship?

Yesterday made me wonder if there was a balance. It put me in mind

of teaching children how to express their emotions appropriately,

without ignoring them or controlling them. For instance, being sad,

but not forcing the world to come to a halt because of it. Does that

make any sense?

> Probably the best thing I can do is to tell my inner child that

she has done nothing wrong, that nobody is attacking her and

realize that she has lived through an emotional battlefield and let

her know I understand why she is so sensitive.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I try to be careful these days never to sacrifice the feelings of my

inner child for the sake of a relationship. Is there ever a time

when the opposite is true? What I mean is, when it comes to a

healthy, loving relationship, is it ever appropriate to perhaps

temper the feelings of my inner child (not ignore them, but maybe

moderate them?) for the sake of a relationship?

Yesterday made me wonder if there was a balance. It put me in mind

of teaching children how to express their emotions appropriately,

without ignoring them or controlling them. For instance, being sad,

but not forcing the world to come to a halt because of it. Does that

make any sense?

> Probably the best thing I can do is to tell my inner child that

she has done nothing wrong, that nobody is attacking her and

realize that she has lived through an emotional battlefield and let

her know I understand why she is so sensitive.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Edith,

I definitely remember endlessly preparing to defend my actions with

nada, preparing a long list of the why's and how's of everything I

did and said (not that any of it helped, but she still demanded it).

Is that what you mean? If it is, then I think I have this problem

both as a flea (behavior picked up from her, i.e. drilling others

for information), and as fallout from having a confusing and

inconsistent childhood (being insecure about others' intentions).

Good to know, although still frustrating. I'm finding this one hard

to brush off.

> This sounds like a flea from having had a nada. Some KOs tend to

> overscrutinize trivia because that's what our nada forced us to do

in justifying stuff. Some of our nadas needed us to do that and

they'd rev us until we did. And then it became a habit.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Edith,

I definitely remember endlessly preparing to defend my actions with

nada, preparing a long list of the why's and how's of everything I

did and said (not that any of it helped, but she still demanded it).

Is that what you mean? If it is, then I think I have this problem

both as a flea (behavior picked up from her, i.e. drilling others

for information), and as fallout from having a confusing and

inconsistent childhood (being insecure about others' intentions).

Good to know, although still frustrating. I'm finding this one hard

to brush off.

> This sounds like a flea from having had a nada. Some KOs tend to

> overscrutinize trivia because that's what our nada forced us to do

in justifying stuff. Some of our nadas needed us to do that and

they'd rev us until we did. And then it became a habit.

[Guest guest]

..........> Hmm. I read your reply earlier today and walked away to

think about

> it. Initially I saw it as me overreacting to a trivial thing, but

> after thinking about it I realized why I reacted the way I did -

> they were being critical over how I was putting up the Christmas

> decorations. Christmas as a KO has always been stressful to me.

> Putting up Christmas decorations with nada always, always, always

> ended up in some sort of screaming fight or point of criticism or

> something similarly negative. This year, I was really looking

> forward to putting up my own decorations, for the first

> time " officially " in our new home (last year we had just moved in),

> and I very much wanted it to be joyous and relaxing and fun. They

> were bugging me to do it faster, making comments about doing it

> wrong, and now I can see why it made me as angry as it did.

>

> I feel they were being insensitive, as they both know about my

> childhood junk, but I also know they didn't mean it quite the way

it

> sounded. It wasn't important in itself, but it WAS important to me

> for what it meant.

*****It sounds to me like they were being insensitive, regardless of

the KO issues. They were judging what you were doing - do either of

them have a degree, or certificate, on 'the right and official way of

decorating for Christmas?' What is too much or not enough time for

this sort of thing? I'll give you that they didn't mean it the way

it sounded, but with knowing what you are dealing with, why did they

say anything other than encouraging comments? (Answer - because they

were being insensitve?)

>

> That's what I find hard - navigating through these little things

> when they're little things, but in some ways, big things (but other

> people wouldn't understand WHY they're big things). Maybe it just

> takes practice?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

*****FWIW - Sometimes it seems like practice helps, other times, it

is practice and also finding ways of dealing with issues that may

continue to trigger us. We can know that in the present the issue is

a minor one, but what is being triggered is not minor, and that can

be a big juggling act.

I think these are exactly the kind of situations that we have to work

through in order to get to a better place for ourselves. I hope you

are feeling better now.

Be kind and gentle to yourself,

Sylvia

[Guest guest]

Hey everyone! I was out of the country for a few weeks, and am glad

to catch up on some threads again...

> When sis-in-law and my husband get together,

> sometimes they can get a little critical and/or bossy

======> Sounds like they have some family dynamic that throws them

back into such behavior.

> He said that sometimes, with the smaller things, you just have

> to " roll with it " .

======> The whole " too sensitive " thing is such a button for me.

I've often found it a mask for the other person not taking

responsibility for hurting my feelings.

> I think maybe I need to learn how to let those little things slide

> by, without having to pick them all apart.

======> I've definitely had to learn how to " choose my battles " --

but what a relief when I do. I echo the suggestion to decide how

important resolving a particular situation is to your own integrity

before just letting it go. If it isn't worth your energy, you can

walk away. (Note that this is conserving your resources, not running

away from a problem.)

In this case, I think it's totally valid to tell your husband and/or

SIL that while their comments seemed trivial to them, you felt

judged around a topic that's already very raw for you. And although

they meant no harm, they need to know that their words had a hurtful

effect on you. (No, Virginia, intention is not the whole story.) The

goal here is that they'll know they need to be more sensitive in the

future, because you're still trying to heal that wound.

My two cents,

journeywork

[Guest guest]

Hey everyone! I was out of the country for a few weeks, and am glad

to catch up on some threads again...

> When sis-in-law and my husband get together,

> sometimes they can get a little critical and/or bossy

======> Sounds like they have some family dynamic that throws them

back into such behavior.

> He said that sometimes, with the smaller things, you just have

> to " roll with it " .

======> The whole " too sensitive " thing is such a button for me.

I've often found it a mask for the other person not taking

responsibility for hurting my feelings.

> I think maybe I need to learn how to let those little things slide

> by, without having to pick them all apart.

======> I've definitely had to learn how to " choose my battles " --

but what a relief when I do. I echo the suggestion to decide how

important resolving a particular situation is to your own integrity

before just letting it go. If it isn't worth your energy, you can

walk away. (Note that this is conserving your resources, not running

away from a problem.)

In this case, I think it's totally valid to tell your husband and/or

SIL that while their comments seemed trivial to them, you felt

judged around a topic that's already very raw for you. And although

they meant no harm, they need to know that their words had a hurtful

effect on you. (No, Virginia, intention is not the whole story.) The

goal here is that they'll know they need to be more sensitive in the

future, because you're still trying to heal that wound.

My two cents,

journeywork

[Guest guest]

Hey everyone! I was out of the country for a few weeks, and am glad

to catch up on some threads again...

> When sis-in-law and my husband get together,

> sometimes they can get a little critical and/or bossy

======> Sounds like they have some family dynamic that throws them

back into such behavior.

> He said that sometimes, with the smaller things, you just have

> to " roll with it " .

======> The whole " too sensitive " thing is such a button for me.

I've often found it a mask for the other person not taking

responsibility for hurting my feelings.

> I think maybe I need to learn how to let those little things slide

> by, without having to pick them all apart.

======> I've definitely had to learn how to " choose my battles " --

but what a relief when I do. I echo the suggestion to decide how

important resolving a particular situation is to your own integrity

before just letting it go. If it isn't worth your energy, you can

walk away. (Note that this is conserving your resources, not running

away from a problem.)

In this case, I think it's totally valid to tell your husband and/or

SIL that while their comments seemed trivial to them, you felt

judged around a topic that's already very raw for you. And although

they meant no harm, they need to know that their words had a hurtful

effect on you. (No, Virginia, intention is not the whole story.) The

goal here is that they'll know they need to be more sensitive in the

future, because you're still trying to heal that wound.

My two cents,

journeywork

[Guest guest]

,

I struggle with this issue all the time. My husband says that I

like to have all my relationships wrapped up in pretty little

packages complete with ribbons and bows. When things cannot be

resolved, I have great anxiety and often obsess over them.

On a deeper level, I think that it branches back to all-or-nothing

thought. If things aren't black or white, it creates a great deal

of anxiety for me. Like loving and hating nada at the same time.

If things aren't resolved, then I must have failed. If I failed,

there must be something I can do to make amends. And on and on it

goes. I'm also strongly affected by my expectations, especially

that good should triumph over evil and that I hope that people are

basically good. Life is not fair. Many people are down and

outright evil. Some conflicts can't be resolved, only wisely

avoided. I don't know if that ressonates with you or not.

The inlaw issue brings up much emotion for me, as I was never able

to find a workable relationship with mine. Three years ago, on

Christmas Day, I removed myself from any relationship with my inlaws

after they outright and directly maligned my character and

personality. I'd taken so much abuse from these people and

shouldered most of it to protect my ill husband, that when they

finally let the venom fly at me directly, I felt free to divorce

myself from any further interraction with them. My husband who had

always encouraged me to just let everything slide, tolerating lies

and prejudice and unjust blame, finally admitted that after our then

11 yrs of marriage that I had proven my devotion and I could be free.

Without me intervening for him, it only took a year for him to get

fed up with them himself. They are now estranged, except that his

sister figured out that we moved to another state and never told

them. We set up an email address on yahoo just for emails from them

so that there was some avenue of communication, but my hsbd no

longer wishes to speak to them. I suffered for 11 of the 15 years

that I've been married, enduring horrible garbage from them, and I

wish that I had protested early on. I put up with them yelling at

me, but I wanted my husb to step up to defend me freely without my

manipulation. It eventually came, but I suffered much foul

treatement from his family. It was a tremendous strain on our

marriage and on his health. One BP parent per marriage is plenty.

I wish I had the self respect to stand up for myself with them, but

it took me 11 years to develop it.

Oh well. Sorry to go off on a wild inlaw rant. It's hard over the

holidays for me more than my husband. He is much happier having no

contact with them, but I feel regret for my role as catalyst in the

estrangement between them. My husband doesn't feel that I am at

fault at all, but I have become the focal point of the conflict.

I guess that my point is that you need to have respect for yourself,

and your husband needs to stick up for you, favoring you above his

mother. When it finally happened in my life, my relationship with

my husband deepened tremendously.

K

>

> Hi all,

>

> I have a question for the listmind. We have company this weekend,

my

> sis-in-law and her fiance, who we are close to and generally get

> along fabulously with. When sis-in-law and my husband get

together,

> sometimes they can get a little critical and/or bossy - this isn't

a

> big deal and usually I can manage it fine, but yesterday I felt

they

> went a bit overboard and I flared up at them both. My husband and

I

> had a short discussion about it, he said that sometimes I am a

> little too sensitive, and he asked me to let it go. Well, I told

him

> that sounded way too much like asking me to ignore my feelings. He

> said that sometimes, with the smaller things, you just have

to " roll

> with it " . I struggled between feeling angry at him and being

> embarrassed about flaring up over something so trivial. This

morning

> I'm still struggling with it. I feel like I got " stuck " there

> because it hasn't been resolved.

>

> I realized that this might very well be what nada goes through in

> her mental processing - when faced with something that upsets her

or

> she doesn't understand, she thinks that there are only two

> conlusions: 1) It's her fault for being upset, she caused the

> problem in the first place or reacted wrong, and therefore she

> should be embarrassed/ashamed, or 2) Someone else is making her

feel

> bad about herself unjustly, and therefore she should be angry. She

> gets " stuck " , fixated on it, until she feels better about herself,

> and that usually means punishing the offender in some way. Or she

> runs away, which might be those few times when she chooses option

1.

>

> So I'm struggling with this. In the past I've always felt a huge

> need to understand absolutely everything coming from the people I

> trust - every expression or comment that isn't straightforward

will

> bother me until I ask about it. I have to resolve every tiff,

every

> annoyance, every bad feeling in either myself or the other person

in

> order to feel " right " again. Up until now this has been ok,

because

> there were only a very, very few people in my life who I trusted

> enough to be close to, and they are generally open, communicative

> people.

>

> But as my circle grows wider, I think maybe I need to learn how to

> let those little things slide by, without having to pick them all

> apart. Otherwise I think I'll drive myself and everyone around me

> crazy! But how to do this? Coming from a childhood that was very

> confusing and where nothing was ever resolved, how do I allow for

> the small things to remain confusing and unresolved? Is this a

flea?

> Does anyone else have trouble with this?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I struggle with this issue all the time. My husband says that I

like to have all my relationships wrapped up in pretty little

packages complete with ribbons and bows. When things cannot be

resolved, I have great anxiety and often obsess over them.

On a deeper level, I think that it branches back to all-or-nothing

thought. If things aren't black or white, it creates a great deal

of anxiety for me. Like loving and hating nada at the same time.

If things aren't resolved, then I must have failed. If I failed,

there must be something I can do to make amends. And on and on it

goes. I'm also strongly affected by my expectations, especially

that good should triumph over evil and that I hope that people are

basically good. Life is not fair. Many people are down and

outright evil. Some conflicts can't be resolved, only wisely

avoided. I don't know if that ressonates with you or not.

The inlaw issue brings up much emotion for me, as I was never able

to find a workable relationship with mine. Three years ago, on

Christmas Day, I removed myself from any relationship with my inlaws

after they outright and directly maligned my character and

personality. I'd taken so much abuse from these people and

shouldered most of it to protect my ill husband, that when they

finally let the venom fly at me directly, I felt free to divorce

myself from any further interraction with them. My husband who had

always encouraged me to just let everything slide, tolerating lies

and prejudice and unjust blame, finally admitted that after our then

11 yrs of marriage that I had proven my devotion and I could be free.

Without me intervening for him, it only took a year for him to get

fed up with them himself. They are now estranged, except that his

sister figured out that we moved to another state and never told

them. We set up an email address on yahoo just for emails from them

so that there was some avenue of communication, but my hsbd no

longer wishes to speak to them. I suffered for 11 of the 15 years

that I've been married, enduring horrible garbage from them, and I

wish that I had protested early on. I put up with them yelling at

me, but I wanted my husb to step up to defend me freely without my

manipulation. It eventually came, but I suffered much foul

treatement from his family. It was a tremendous strain on our

marriage and on his health. One BP parent per marriage is plenty.

I wish I had the self respect to stand up for myself with them, but

it took me 11 years to develop it.

Oh well. Sorry to go off on a wild inlaw rant. It's hard over the

holidays for me more than my husband. He is much happier having no

contact with them, but I feel regret for my role as catalyst in the

estrangement between them. My husband doesn't feel that I am at

fault at all, but I have become the focal point of the conflict.

I guess that my point is that you need to have respect for yourself,

and your husband needs to stick up for you, favoring you above his

mother. When it finally happened in my life, my relationship with

my husband deepened tremendously.

K

>

> Hi all,

>

> I have a question for the listmind. We have company this weekend,

my

> sis-in-law and her fiance, who we are close to and generally get

> along fabulously with. When sis-in-law and my husband get

together,

> sometimes they can get a little critical and/or bossy - this isn't

a

> big deal and usually I can manage it fine, but yesterday I felt

they

> went a bit overboard and I flared up at them both. My husband and

I

> had a short discussion about it, he said that sometimes I am a

> little too sensitive, and he asked me to let it go. Well, I told

him

> that sounded way too much like asking me to ignore my feelings. He

> said that sometimes, with the smaller things, you just have

to " roll

> with it " . I struggled between feeling angry at him and being

> embarrassed about flaring up over something so trivial. This

morning

> I'm still struggling with it. I feel like I got " stuck " there

> because it hasn't been resolved.

>

> I realized that this might very well be what nada goes through in

> her mental processing - when faced with something that upsets her

or

> she doesn't understand, she thinks that there are only two

> conlusions: 1) It's her fault for being upset, she caused the

> problem in the first place or reacted wrong, and therefore she

> should be embarrassed/ashamed, or 2) Someone else is making her

feel

> bad about herself unjustly, and therefore she should be angry. She

> gets " stuck " , fixated on it, until she feels better about herself,

> and that usually means punishing the offender in some way. Or she

> runs away, which might be those few times when she chooses option

1.

>

> So I'm struggling with this. In the past I've always felt a huge

> need to understand absolutely everything coming from the people I

> trust - every expression or comment that isn't straightforward

will

> bother me until I ask about it. I have to resolve every tiff,

every

> annoyance, every bad feeling in either myself or the other person

in

> order to feel " right " again. Up until now this has been ok,

because

> there were only a very, very few people in my life who I trusted

> enough to be close to, and they are generally open, communicative

> people.

>

> But as my circle grows wider, I think maybe I need to learn how to

> let those little things slide by, without having to pick them all

> apart. Otherwise I think I'll drive myself and everyone around me

> crazy! But how to do this? Coming from a childhood that was very

> confusing and where nothing was ever resolved, how do I allow for

> the small things to remain confusing and unresolved? Is this a

flea?

> Does anyone else have trouble with this?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I struggle with this issue all the time. My husband says that I

like to have all my relationships wrapped up in pretty little

packages complete with ribbons and bows. When things cannot be

resolved, I have great anxiety and often obsess over them.

On a deeper level, I think that it branches back to all-or-nothing

thought. If things aren't black or white, it creates a great deal

of anxiety for me. Like loving and hating nada at the same time.

If things aren't resolved, then I must have failed. If I failed,

there must be something I can do to make amends. And on and on it

goes. I'm also strongly affected by my expectations, especially

that good should triumph over evil and that I hope that people are

basically good. Life is not fair. Many people are down and

outright evil. Some conflicts can't be resolved, only wisely

avoided. I don't know if that ressonates with you or not.

The inlaw issue brings up much emotion for me, as I was never able

to find a workable relationship with mine. Three years ago, on

Christmas Day, I removed myself from any relationship with my inlaws

after they outright and directly maligned my character and

personality. I'd taken so much abuse from these people and

shouldered most of it to protect my ill husband, that when they

finally let the venom fly at me directly, I felt free to divorce

myself from any further interraction with them. My husband who had

always encouraged me to just let everything slide, tolerating lies

and prejudice and unjust blame, finally admitted that after our then

11 yrs of marriage that I had proven my devotion and I could be free.

Without me intervening for him, it only took a year for him to get

fed up with them himself. They are now estranged, except that his

sister figured out that we moved to another state and never told

them. We set up an email address on yahoo just for emails from them

so that there was some avenue of communication, but my hsbd no

longer wishes to speak to them. I suffered for 11 of the 15 years

that I've been married, enduring horrible garbage from them, and I

wish that I had protested early on. I put up with them yelling at

me, but I wanted my husb to step up to defend me freely without my

manipulation. It eventually came, but I suffered much foul

treatement from his family. It was a tremendous strain on our

marriage and on his health. One BP parent per marriage is plenty.

I wish I had the self respect to stand up for myself with them, but

it took me 11 years to develop it.

Oh well. Sorry to go off on a wild inlaw rant. It's hard over the

holidays for me more than my husband. He is much happier having no

contact with them, but I feel regret for my role as catalyst in the

estrangement between them. My husband doesn't feel that I am at

fault at all, but I have become the focal point of the conflict.

I guess that my point is that you need to have respect for yourself,

and your husband needs to stick up for you, favoring you above his

mother. When it finally happened in my life, my relationship with

my husband deepened tremendously.

K

>

> Hi all,

>

> I have a question for the listmind. We have company this weekend,

my

> sis-in-law and her fiance, who we are close to and generally get

> along fabulously with. When sis-in-law and my husband get

together,

> sometimes they can get a little critical and/or bossy - this isn't

a

> big deal and usually I can manage it fine, but yesterday I felt

they

> went a bit overboard and I flared up at them both. My husband and

I

> had a short discussion about it, he said that sometimes I am a

> little too sensitive, and he asked me to let it go. Well, I told

him

> that sounded way too much like asking me to ignore my feelings. He

> said that sometimes, with the smaller things, you just have

to " roll

> with it " . I struggled between feeling angry at him and being

> embarrassed about flaring up over something so trivial. This

morning

> I'm still struggling with it. I feel like I got " stuck " there

> because it hasn't been resolved.

>

> I realized that this might very well be what nada goes through in

> her mental processing - when faced with something that upsets her

or

> she doesn't understand, she thinks that there are only two

> conlusions: 1) It's her fault for being upset, she caused the

> problem in the first place or reacted wrong, and therefore she

> should be embarrassed/ashamed, or 2) Someone else is making her

feel

> bad about herself unjustly, and therefore she should be angry. She

> gets " stuck " , fixated on it, until she feels better about herself,

> and that usually means punishing the offender in some way. Or she

> runs away, which might be those few times when she chooses option

1.

>

> So I'm struggling with this. In the past I've always felt a huge

> need to understand absolutely everything coming from the people I

> trust - every expression or comment that isn't straightforward

will

> bother me until I ask about it. I have to resolve every tiff,

every

> annoyance, every bad feeling in either myself or the other person

in

> order to feel " right " again. Up until now this has been ok,

because

> there were only a very, very few people in my life who I trusted

> enough to be close to, and they are generally open, communicative

> people.

>

> But as my circle grows wider, I think maybe I need to learn how to

> let those little things slide by, without having to pick them all

> apart. Otherwise I think I'll drive myself and everyone around me

> crazy! But how to do this? Coming from a childhood that was very

> confusing and where nothing was ever resolved, how do I allow for

> the small things to remain confusing and unresolved? Is this a

flea?

> Does anyone else have trouble with this?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

When I do this (less often but used to be constantly), my husband

calls it my " disclaimer. " I have to justify myself before allowed

to express an opinion.

cindy k

> > This sounds like a flea from having had a nada. Some KOs tend to

> > overscrutinize trivia because that's what our nada forced us to

do

> in justifying stuff. Some of our nadas needed us to do that and

> they'd rev us until we did. And then it became a habit.

[Guest guest]

When I do this (less often but used to be constantly), my husband

calls it my " disclaimer. " I have to justify myself before allowed

to express an opinion.

cindy k

> > This sounds like a flea from having had a nada. Some KOs tend to

> > overscrutinize trivia because that's what our nada forced us to

do

> in justifying stuff. Some of our nadas needed us to do that and

> they'd rev us until we did. And then it became a habit.

[Guest guest]

When I do this (less often but used to be constantly), my husband

calls it my " disclaimer. " I have to justify myself before allowed

to express an opinion.

cindy k

> > This sounds like a flea from having had a nada. Some KOs tend to

> > overscrutinize trivia because that's what our nada forced us to

do

> in justifying stuff. Some of our nadas needed us to do that and

> they'd rev us until we did. And then it became a habit.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You know, I got a sense of real urgency about your posts when I read

them and am wondering if that is the real problem. I'm trying to be

helpful but I think what I'm about to say might also be incredibly

annoying or way off the mark so let me know if that's the case.

I was thinking that maybe you're doing the same thing to yourself

that you do with other people when they say or do something that

upsets you. You're going over and over your flea in your head and

making it super important and something you have to fix because

you're not perfect and are too sensitive to how other people treat

you. You're trying to fix it and work it out so that you and

everything can be " okay. "

What if you also let go a bit of the needing to let go (does that

make sense)? What if you trusted yourself and the people around you

to be able to deal with it if you do flare up (it seems to me that

part of this needing to fix things and being super sensitive has to

do with not trusting that things will be okay if you don't make them

that way)? What about first just focussing on and recognising that

you do this instead of trying so hard to change immediately? Small

steps.

I forget who mentioned it in a previous reply to you (but it was

brilliant whoever they were) that you can see these incidents and

people as helping you to heal. It's just that you're not only going

to get one chance to fix it and if it takes you awhile that's okay.

We are not on nada time anymore. You don't have to learn things and

be perfect immediately...or else.

It's not great, yes you have to work on it but you're also okay just

as you are. It may be annoying sometimes to the people around you

but it's not horrible and it doesn't have to be urgent. On the scale

of fleas, this is not destructive or abusive behaviour as you

describe it. It sounds like you are still testing and setting up

limits of how much you can trust the people around you. It sounds

like you're frustrated with yourself because you think you should be

more advanced or passed this stage by now.

It also sounds like your husband and sis-in-law can gang up and be

insensitive when they are together. Can that be okay? Can you see

that as something about them (which someone else mentioned, not

taking it personally) or is this something that does need to be

worked out? Your husband's " Let it go " sounded a bit to me

like, " Don't make me responsible for always taking your feelings

into consideration. " Mountains out of mole hills perhaps but this

seems like a process that will go in steps and will take time to

figure those steps out.

My immediate reaction was to say, " Dear , you are a mighty

fine thing. Maybe there are a couple of chips here and there but

your shine and glow are something to focus on more than the

imperfections. " And pooh on them for not recognising that in the

middle of your fantastic Christmas decorating moment.

Nadine

[Guest guest]

Hi Nadine,

I know this post was directed to , but I wanted to say a few

things. First, your insightfulness is such a treat! You remind me of

my Therapist who is non-traditional and sees things in ways that

amaze me. That is a gift.

In regards to the sense of urgency, I too feel it

confrontations/misunderstandings, etc. Its like I can't rest until

it is resolved and can go over it and over it in my head. I wonder

if it is a way to avoid feeling and walking through the shame I

feel. I mean, as long as I am in my head obsessing, I don't have to

take the next step and feel the uncomfortable feelings. I hate

obsessing and picking things apart because once I get to a good

place it starts all over again, but I also hate the thick layer of

shame I feel bathed in even more. gotta run,

>

> Hi ,

>

> You know, I got a sense of real urgency about your posts when I

read

> them and am wondering if that is the real problem. I'm trying to

be

> helpful but I think what I'm about to say might also be incredibly

> annoying or way off the mark so let me know if that's the case.

>

> I was thinking that maybe you're doing the same thing to yourself

> that you do with other people when they say or do something that

> upsets you. You're going over and over your flea in your head and

> making it super important and something you have to fix because

> you're not perfect and are too sensitive to how other people treat

> you. You're trying to fix it and work it out so that you and

> everything can be " okay. "

>

> What if you also let go a bit of the needing to let go (does that

> make sense)? What if you trusted yourself and the people around

you

> to be able to deal with it if you do flare up (it seems to me that

> part of this needing to fix things and being super sensitive has

to

> do with not trusting that things will be okay if you don't make

them

> that way)? What about first just focussing on and recognising that

> you do this instead of trying so hard to change immediately? Small

> steps.

>

> I forget who mentioned it in a previous reply to you (but it was

> brilliant whoever they were) that you can see these incidents and

> people as helping you to heal. It's just that you're not only

going

> to get one chance to fix it and if it takes you awhile that's

okay.

> We are not on nada time anymore. You don't have to learn things

and

> be perfect immediately...or else.

>

> It's not great, yes you have to work on it but you're also okay

just

> as you are. It may be annoying sometimes to the people around you

> but it's not horrible and it doesn't have to be urgent. On the

scale

> of fleas, this is not destructive or abusive behaviour as you

> describe it. It sounds like you are still testing and setting up

> limits of how much you can trust the people around you. It sounds

> like you're frustrated with yourself because you think you should

be

> more advanced or passed this stage by now.

>

> It also sounds like your husband and sis-in-law can gang up and be

> insensitive when they are together. Can that be okay? Can you see

> that as something about them (which someone else mentioned, not

> taking it personally) or is this something that does need to be

> worked out? Your husband's " Let it go " sounded a bit to me

> like, " Don't make me responsible for always taking your feelings

> into consideration. " Mountains out of mole hills perhaps but this

> seems like a process that will go in steps and will take time to

> figure those steps out.

>

> My immediate reaction was to say, " Dear , you are a mighty

> fine thing. Maybe there are a couple of chips here and there but

> your shine and glow are something to focus on more than the

> imperfections. " And pooh on them for not recognising that in the

> middle of your fantastic Christmas decorating moment.

>

> Nadine