Guest guest Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 Edith, That is all very good advice. I interviewed roughly 6 therapists on the phone before picking the one that felt and seemed right for me just b/c the other times around I had no choice as a teenager and the one my friend recommended straight out of college had more problems than I did- a real strange bird. But I do think it good to 'shop' around for a therapist the same as a person would for anything else. What is your advice to give a bp who just wanted to know about bpd? Specifically, my nada/mom wants to finally learn more about bpd and seems like she finally has energy to tackle these issues again and I don't exactly know which books to recommend to her. I've read 'Lost in the Mirror' and thought it was good. I also read " I hate you, don't leave me. " but that is kind of older and I'm not sure if it will scare her off or something. I'm still a bit shocked that she was asking me all these questions on borderline personality disorder last night, like sincerely wanting to know what it is. I think you are exactly right in that therapy w/o a trained professional in the bpd realm can do more damage than good. We went to therapy for years and no one ever mentioned this disorder not even PSTD and so I think we all got burned out of therapy and lost faith in the process. I went back when I saw myself contaminating my marriage and that's when I learned all about bpd. I think nada/mom knows I'm no longer willing to accept less than a clean bill of mental health to have a relationship w/me as well as her knowing that I don't care what people think and that I can walk away from this. I think she also was suprised by how many nails I hit on the head w/why she acts the way she acts...the whole trust and abandonment issues. I think the empathy and straight talk gave her a ray of hope perhaps that there are genuinely people out there who do know how to approach this disorder...not sure if she thought I was talking out my ass a few years ago or what when I initially brought it up. Crossing fingers, but more busy w/the life I've got now w/my family though I would like to recommend and send her some good books for bps trying to recover. Thanks in advance for any good tips. Kerrie > BPD is a relative newcomer to the mental illness arena. BPD was > first accepted into the DSM in 1980. The first book for the lay > public was published in 1989 (Kreisman's " I Hate You - Don't > Leave Me " ). Stop Walking On Eggshells (SWOE) was published nine > years later (1998). SWOE was written about *high-functioning* > BPs. There is now a Workbook to accompany SWOE (see info on the > BPDCentral.com website). > > BP's can be smart *intellectually* and outgoing socially but > child-like *emotionally* under stress, with their emotional > development operating at the level of a 2 yo child. And, there > can be perceptual/cognitive differences that defy logic. > > It is not yet known why - ie, heredity (genetics) vs environment > (trauma). Perhaps there are different causes and/or > subclassifications of BPs or maybe BP's brains are simply wired > wrong. And, there could be changes in the next edition of the > DSM (the psychiatrist's bible) that we can't even dream about now. > > The first WelcomeToOz (WTO) list for NonBPs went online on the > Internet in late 1995. The validation and support NonBPs can > receive on the various WTO lists can be life-changing from > interacting with and learning from others who've walked in the > same ill-fitting pair of shoes. > > Below are some thoughts I've put together about BPD, therapy, & > etc ... > > Not all therapists are trained to work with BPs or their SOs and > children. The therapist one chooses should have a successful > track record working with borderlines and/or their NonBP SOs and > children, otherwise it can be a waste of both time and money, > and can cause more harm than good. Therapists who work with BPDs > are in continual therapy themselves. Meanwhile BPs who are not > committed to changing their ways tend to travel from one > therapist to another until they can find one they can manipulate. > > The first thing on the agenda for the NonBP should be to learn > *everything* they can about BPD. SWOE and the WTO lists are an > excellent place to start. Chs 1-4 of SWOE are about > understanding BPD behavior, chs 5-9 are about taking back > control of one's life, and there are several chapters on special > issues plus other goodies in the Appendices. One can't digest it > all in one sitting. One should plan on reading SWOE several > times and keep it handy for reference. For the NonBP adult > children of BPs, there are now two books available -- > Ann Lawson's Understanding The Borderline Mother (2000), and > Roth and Friedman's " Surviving A Borderline Parent " (2003). > > The NonBP must be able to recognize the difference between the > BP's distorted COGNITIVE (ie, thinking/understanding) and > EMOTIONAL (ie, feeling) stuff and realize that BPD is a > recognized DSM mental illness that involves both cognitive and > emotional (mood) malfunctions. As far as the BPD's *feelings* > go, there's a section on p 56 of SWOE titled " Feelings Create > Facts " . That is, BPs tend to revise the facts to fit their > feelings. And, of course, that's why the NonBP wonders if > they're the one that's going crazy. > > The NonBP needs to know about the BP's (ego) DEFENSE MECHANISMS > that function *automatically* (eg, projection, denial, > rationalization, splitting, and raging), about BOUNDARIES, LEVEL > OF FUNCTIONING (high- vs low-functioning), ACTING IN vs ACTING > OUT, CONTROL issues, OBJECT CONSTANCY, SITUATIONAL COMPETENCE, > and NARCISSISTIC DEMANDS. All of this stuff is in SWOE. And, > like its stated on p 46 of SWOE: " ... the terms " manipulation " > and " emotional blackmail " imply some sort of devious planned > intent...but borderlines who appear to be manipulative usually > act impulsively out of fear, loneliness, desperation, and > hopelessness... " . > > Also, the BP likes to feel that they're the one who is " in > control " BUT they tend to *overcontrol*. And, BPDs can be > INTENSE, lack EMPATHY, and (because of their tiny and/or > fragmented SELF) need to create chaos so they know they're alive. > > Also, BPs may DISSOCIATE under stress. Dissociation is the state > in which, on some level or another, one becomes somewhat removed > from " reality, " whether this be daydreaming, performing actions > without being fully connected to their performance ( " running on > automatic " ), or other, more disconnected actions. It is the > opposite of " association " and involves the lack of association, > usually of one's IDENTITY, with the rest of the world. Thus BPs > don't always remember what they did or said. > > There is no " pure " BPD; it coexists with other illnesses. These > are the most common that BPD may coexist with: > Post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) > Mood disorders (usually bipolar) > Panic/anxiety disorders > Substance abuse: 54% of BPs also have a problem > with substance abuse > Gender identity disorder > Attention deficit disorder (ADD) > Eating disorders > Dissociative disorder (DID, formerly multiple personality > disorder) > Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) > > The NonBP needs to learn to not take the BP's stuff personally. > The core issues of BPDs are ENTANGLEMENT and ABANDONMENT and > what comes out of the BPD's mouth while they rage or whatever is > the BPD talking. Its not about you. > > For the NonBP, a therapist should have special training and > either be able to accept you as the NonBP SO of a BPD or > recommend a therapist who can (and MD, for medication if > necessary). The info below may help but it is not all-inclusive. > > For general info on how to choose a BPD-knowledgable therapist, > go to: > http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/therapist/main.shtml > > For an overview of DIALECTIC BEHAVIORAL THERAPY (DBT), which was > developed by Marsha Linehan, PhD at the University of > Washington and has been successfully used to treat people who > have BPD, go to: > http://www.priory.co.uk/dbt1.htm > > Questions that can be asked when seeking a > BPD-knowledgable/trained therapist, to determine their > competence, are listed on pages 238-239 of SWOE. > > Besides the therapists listed on the www.BPDCentral.com website, > to locate a DBT-trained therapist in your area or for referral > by them to a therapist who has a successful track record working > with BPs and their SOs, a phone number one can call is listed on > the following website: > http://www.brtc.psych.washington.edu > > Behavioral Technology Transfer Group (BTTG) in Seattle, WA has a > list of clinicians, both nationally and internationally, who > have completed Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) training with > their company. One can send an email request for referral to a > therapist in their area to: > DBTinfo@B... > > Also, the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI) > maintains a list of therapists who treat BPs and their family > members. Their hotline number is 800-950-NAMI. They may be able > to recommend a suitable therapist who resides in your area. > > And, should you hit pay dirt, call three therapists and > interview them on the phone and then pick the one you feel the > most comfortable with. Otherwise call three more. > > The bottom line: Everyone is responsible for their own behavior, > even BPs. > > Good Luck! > > - Edith > List Manager & Gal Friday / WelcomeToOz Family of NonBP Lists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 --- . Don't be surprised, however, if she > turns it around and says that you're the one with BPD. That's > was BPs do bigtime (ie, projection and denial). This 'reaching > out' might only be a ploy on her part. > Hi Kerrie, I'm so glad Edith wrote this. I was thinking it myself. I didn't want to say anything negative on your birthday and all. A few months ago, before I knew about bpd, my nada actually told me that she had 'this evil' in her and she didn't know how to fight it. Then she told me she liked my childhood best friend (the one who had protected me from nada as best she could). But soon after that, she was triggered--I think by my younger cousin's wedding--and she became as bad as she ever was. Nadas can try to hoover in the most clever way possible, EVEN by admitting they have an illness, I think. And I think your nada might be desperate to get access to your baby, which might make her willing to try anything. But certainly there can be good intentions involved in her part on some level. But without real help from a psychiartist, and a very sincere effort on your nada's part, she might not be able to change, even if on lucid days she is loving and willing to. Good luck though and at least you will always have the comfort that it has started in motion for you and nada. Love CH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Thanks guys. I agree with what you are saying and I think I posted as much to someone else in that I'll believe it when I see it. Granted no therapist ever mentioned BPD to us before and that is a similar story to the one link Edith posted the other day about a BP's story and my nada has always been more on the high functioning end though when we were younger more medium functioning. I think she was sincere. You get a sixth sense growing up in an abusive household and I could tell she was sincere. HOWEVER, the whole issue of time frame and courage and committment and all that jazz is a different thing altogether w/a BP vs the general public. In so far as access to my baby, that is minimal already but dh said she's no longer allowed in our house so that isn't changing and baby doesn't trust her so that's also not an issue w/me. She lives 1000 miles away and I think I hit the BP nail on the head when I said she's acted up at Christmas and this last time b/c she is afraid of bonding with him and wants the ball to be thrown in my court for rejecting her and seeming like the messed up one. She said I was probably onto something there. I'm going to send her the " I Hate you, Don't Leave Me " book and give her a list of other books she can get herself. Additionally, if she really cares, she'll look it up online herself and go about it herself. It is like I said to her in our conversation in that " I just don't have the time and energy " for this and I'm not afraid to walk away. She can ploy all she wants but she knows I know her name and number and that she has absolutely nothing on me besides a past that she keeps triggering, but I have the choice to leave and she knows it. If she is acting and talking out of fear and its a ploy, it is not for my son and myself but rather for the 'image' to everyone else if that makes sense. Thanks for your concern. I think I'm just over it for the most part and even though she is finally interested in finding out more, I'm not much interested in pursuing a relationship w/her and she knows it. But to a borderline, out of sight out of mind is the rule of the day and so who knows. I just keep growing further from her and if she gets better, good for her. I'm a bit detached from the outcome. Gald she cares to find out, but my self worth and the decisions I've made to protect me and my family haven't changed despite her words. Kerrie > --- . Don't be surprised, however, if she > > turns it around and says that you're the one with BPD. That's > > was BPs do bigtime (ie, projection and denial). This 'reaching > > out' might only be a ploy on her part. > > > Hi Kerrie, > > I'm so glad Edith wrote this. I was thinking it myself. I didn't > want to say anything negative on your birthday and all. A few > months ago, before I knew about bpd, my nada actually told me that > she had 'this evil' in her and she didn't know how to fight it. > Then she told me she liked my childhood best friend (the one who had > protected me from nada as best she could). But soon after that, she > was triggered--I think by my younger cousin's wedding--and she > became as bad as she ever was. Nadas can try to hoover in the most > clever way possible, EVEN by admitting they have an illness, I > think. And I think your nada might be desperate to get access to > your baby, which might make her willing to try anything. But > certainly there can be good intentions involved in her part on some > level. But without real help from a psychiartist, and a very > sincere effort on your nada's part, she might not be able to change, > even if on lucid days she is loving and willing to. Good luck > though and at least you will always have the comfort that it has > started in motion for you and nada. > > Love > CH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 Edith, Everytime I read this, I wonder 'why'. Is it because dealing with a BP is stressful even if the BP isn't part of your family? And, I guess, if you are treating several BPs, that can make your workday very challenging (to say the least.) Sylvia <<<< >........................ Therapists who work with BPDs are in continual therapy themselves. ...................>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.