Re: Re: stutterers...

[Guest guest]

My brother in law is a lifelong stutterer. Entire in law family has PDs or

unacknowledged fleas ( I admit mine) including BIL. As I understand it, lifelong

stuttering is neurological and inherited, much like any tic. SIL has several

tics. My son has mild Tourettes syndrome which has been diagnosed

professionally, other son has it but we havent had him diagnosed and daughter

has at least one vocal tic. So I see this pattern of inherited neurolgical tics

from a family with strong PD traits and I have to wonder out loud how much of BP

is an inherited trait, the nature side of the argument.

Anyway, I certainly have the social phobia thing, it just kills me to get up in

front of a group to speak. Nada has been telling me I was always " shy " . It is

still painfully shy at times although I have been able to do better at times.

Not really sure how much this shyness was learned and how much is inherited.

I still consider it my obligation to rise above no matter the source, but I'm

sure it is easier for some, I have other strengths.

Doug

> I was a stutterer when I was a kid. Any other KOstutterers on board?

>

> - Edith

Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

" Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

http://www.BPDCentral.com

[Guest guest]

Hi KOs,

Doug's post reminded me that I also had tics -- something

terrible. And the kids in school kept making fun of me bcause of

them. Let's see, I stuttered, had tics, was hypervigilant, had

PTSD, was a trichotillomaniac (I pulled my hair out, one at a

time) and was unbelievably *shy*. Plus I was dirty and smelled,

and my clothes were gawd-awful. This happened through high school.

I starved out of college at 19 yo after completing almost all

the upper division courses in my major (ie, music scholarship,

Wayne Univ, Detroit, MI) within the first year-and-a-half. I

returned to the classroom at the age of 30 and completed my BA

and MA in psych.

The reason my BPD/NPD hubby allowed me to go back to school was

that I won an impossible bet with him. And, it was not until

after my first seven years of teaching that I was finally able

to fit comfortably into my role as a professor.

My paycheck put food on the table and paid the bills. My BPD/NPD

hubby couldn't work for anyone so my paycheck was crucial to our

survival as a family (we had 2 kids). We were paid once a month

and he'd be standing by the door waiting for me with his hand

extended on payday. I'd put the check into his hand when I

arrived home and he'd give me $10 to buy gas with. I had no idea

that the paycheck was mine to do stuff with. Besides, he spent

it all on whatever he wanted.

I was totally brainwashed until I learned about BPD on the

Internet at the age of 67 from Randi in 1996. By that time the

hubby was deceased and the kids were grown.

Thus, " life " passed me by. And that's why I'm still here today.

I'm putting in payback time so other KOs won't have to go

through stuff like I did.

My life is goooooood, now. <sigh>

- Edith

tin_man wrote:

> My brother in law is a lifelong stutterer. Entire in law family has PDs or

unacknowledged fleas ( I admit mine) including BIL. As I understand it, lifelong

stuttering is neurological and inherited, much like any tic. SIL has several

tics. My son has mild Tourettes syndrome which has been diagnosed

professionally, other son has it but we havent had him diagnosed and daughter

has at least one vocal tic. So I see this pattern of inherited neurolgical tics

from a family with strong PD traits and I have to wonder out loud how much of BP

is an inherited trait, the nature side of the argument.

>

> Anyway, I certainly have the social phobia thing, it just kills me to get up

in front of a group to speak. Nada has been telling me I was always " shy " . It is

still painfully shy at times although I have been able to do better at times.

Not really sure how much this shyness was learned and how much is inherited.

>

> I still consider it my obligation to rise above no matter the source, but I'm

sure it is easier for some, I have other strengths.

>

> Doug

[Guest guest]

Kerrie,

I am curious about what problem Mel Tillis (The country singer)

has. My husband met his parents & they seemed very nice. Doesn't mean they were,

but it doesn't mean they weren't either. He (Mel) stutters when he speaks, but

never stutters when he is singing. If he is on a time limit to be on stage, I

have seen him sing some sentences rather than to try to speak them. Because he

does stutter most of the time, he is a man of few words.

Debbie

Re: stutterers...

I would say as a recent graduate in Speech Therapy as my major that

the verdict is still out on whether or not stuttering is

neurologically inherited, or genetic. I remember my professor

talking about this in our intro class when I first started my major

and he said in no uncertain terms that most kids we'll see who

stutter are born w/thinner skin. Some could take that to mean

anything, but this guy had been a speech therapist for over 30 years

and knew his stuff, but I am not altogether sure if I would say it

is thin skin as much as a wounded soul in some people. I do not know

enough about the case histories of stutters as a population to say

that a certain statistical percentage have parents who have PDs. IF,

and a big if there, a sizable proportion do have PD parents, THEN it

would seem only fair to say it is not a matter of thick vs thin skin

but rather something going on inside the home/internal workings of

the human being and socialiogical factors that would make it seem

like the child has thin skin, but most naturally has a fluency

disorder.

There are 5 different segments of language/voice/speech that the

speech therapist has to study and with fluency disorders like

stuttering and there are a few other fluency disorders (I had one,

but it was a habit of clearing my throat every 5 seconds that nada

shamed w/ and thereby reinforced when I was between 9-12). I admit

that w/stuttering, speech therapists do not exactly look at the

problem in the same fashion as someone w/neurological problems

(brain injuries), or language developmental problems (kids) or

speech problems (lisps, which are very normal to certain extents in

the developmental process). I would not say speech therapists are

snobby of stutterers, but they do tend, behind closed doors, to

look at stuttering as more of a psychological phenomenon rather than

a genetic or physiological or developmental issue. It is perplexing

to the Speech therapist.

I will say that if I decide to go back and get my masters in it, I

promise to consider this particular topic for my research paper

(I've got another theory in the works that I've been very fond of

for a couple of years).

I did have a roommate who was a stutterer and she was undoubtably

raised in a bp household knowing what I know now. She would be super

sweet, much, much more kind than me, but it was a fake sweetness and

then she'd freak out when I'd bust her in a lie. She would leave

used tampons out on the counter in our shared bathroom in a plastic

cup rather than take out the trash and one day I found this guy

masterbating in her bedroom while she was in the shower early in the

morning (she'd brought him home the night before and I always slept

w/my cat in my room and noticed she'd gotten out and went to fetch

her...hence I caught the perve masterbating and put her on notice to

never bring strangers again into our apartment or I was moving out).

I'd never seen the movie " Single, White Female " until I kept

describing the weird things she'd do (like buying all her clothes to

match mine) and my friends got me to rent it one night and it

totally freaked me out.

I've not known too many other stutterers besides this one guy who

was in residency to become a speech therapist professor and he was

an ahole from my run ins. I know one priest who is one and he seems

nice enough and so I'm very hesitant to put any labels on people who

stutter though I am very curious now into looking deeper at this

topic.'

Thanks for all this interesting dialogue. I know I brought it up in

another post b/c of the whole catscan thing and neurological

difference, but I do not think stutterers are born that way. I think

it is developed and the brain alters accordingly. I only know that

the stutterers who have stuttered for years and years are the ones

that have the spots on their brains that are evident in catscans

whereas children do not have the same catscan issues.

Take care,

K

> > I was a stutterer when I was a kid. Any other KOstutterers on

board?

> >

> > - Edith

>

>

>

> Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be

ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of

contents, go to:

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kerrie

My, we have a diverse and knowledgeable group. Appreciate your thoughts and

perspective.

I am certainly not widely read on the stuttering etiology

It sounds like we agree there is some evidence for a hard wiring problem with at

least some adult stutterers.

My perspective comes from my kids having tics (and more specifically TS) and

being told by a state university research hospital expert and having read how

those tics cannot be suppressed at least not for very long and that they are

neurological, that is hard wiring and likely genetic issue and not really

amenable to psychotherapy or a result of any childhood developemental issue. I

had also read experts throwing stutterers into the same pot. I'll post a little

more on TS to Carol.

From your post, it sound like there is still a controversy on the etiology, at

least on stuttering.

We even see reports that psychotherapy can effect hard wiring changes which may,

in turn, have been hard wiring changes caused by abuse suffered during

developemental periods.

The nature vs nurture controversy continues!

Doug

Re: stutterers...

I would say as a recent graduate in Speech Therapy as my major that

the verdict is still out on whether or not stuttering is

neurologically inherited, or genetic. I remember my professor

talking about this in our intro class when I first started my major

and he said in no uncertain terms that most kids we'll see who

stutter are born w/thinner skin. Some could take that to mean

anything, but this guy had been a speech therapist for over 30 years

and knew his stuff, but I am not altogether sure if I would say it

is thin skin as much as a wounded soul in some people. I do not know

enough about the case histories of stutters as a population to say

that a certain statistical percentage have parents who have PDs. IF,

and a big if there, a sizable proportion do have PD parents, THEN it

would seem only fair to say it is not a matter of thick vs thin skin

but rather something going on inside the home/internal workings of

the human being and socialiogical factors that would make it seem

like the child has thin skin, but most naturally has a fluency

disorder.

There are 5 different segments of language/voice/speech that the

speech therapist has to study and with fluency disorders like

stuttering and there are a few other fluency disorders (I had one,

but it was a habit of clearing my throat every 5 seconds that nada

shamed w/ and thereby reinforced when I was between 9-12). I admit

that w/stuttering, speech therapists do not exactly look at the

problem in the same fashion as someone w/neurological problems

(brain injuries), or language developmental problems (kids) or

speech problems (lisps, which are very normal to certain extents in

the developmental process). I would not say speech therapists are

snobby of stutterers, but they do tend, behind closed doors, to

look at stuttering as more of a psychological phenomenon rather than

a genetic or physiological or developmental issue. It is perplexing

to the Speech therapist.

I will say that if I decide to go back and get my masters in it, I

promise to consider this particular topic for my research paper

(I've got another theory in the works that I've been very fond of

for a couple of years).

I did have a roommate who was a stutterer and she was undoubtably

raised in a bp household knowing what I know now. She would be super

sweet, much, much more kind than me, but it was a fake sweetness and

then she'd freak out when I'd bust her in a lie. She would leave

used tampons out on the counter in our shared bathroom in a plastic

cup rather than take out the trash and one day I found this guy

masterbating in her bedroom while she was in the shower early in the

morning (she'd brought him home the night before and I always slept

w/my cat in my room and noticed she'd gotten out and went to fetch

her...hence I caught the perve masterbating and put her on notice to

never bring strangers again into our apartment or I was moving out).

I'd never seen the movie " Single, White Female " until I kept

describing the weird things she'd do (like buying all her clothes to

match mine) and my friends got me to rent it one night and it

totally freaked me out.

I've not known too many other stutterers besides this one guy who

was in residency to become a speech therapist professor and he was

an ahole from my run ins. I know one priest who is one and he seems

nice enough and so I'm very hesitant to put any labels on people who

stutter though I am very curious now into looking deeper at this

topic.'

Thanks for all this interesting dialogue. I know I brought it up in

another post b/c of the whole catscan thing and neurological

difference, but I do not think stutterers are born that way. I think

it is developed and the brain alters accordingly. I only know that

the stutterers who have stuttered for years and years are the ones

that have the spots on their brains that are evident in catscans

whereas children do not have the same catscan issues.

Take care,

K

> > I was a stutterer when I was a kid. Any other KOstutterers on

board?

> >

> > - Edith

>

>

>

> Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be

ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of

contents, go to:

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

>

>