Re: Fleas

[Guest guest]

Okay, I am really embarrassed. I think I have a flea infestation. Is there

someone in group who could go over fleas, briefly, and suggest some methods of

purging?

Marla

[Guest guest]

psm568@... wrote:

> Okay, I am really embarrassed. I think I have a flea infestation. Is there

> someone in group who could go over fleas, briefly, and suggest some methods of

> purging?

Hi Marla,

Yahoogroups has been having a few bad days with posts lately and

you're a newbie so maybe you missed my post to this list on 3/28

to PANDS45, which I've pasted below.

Our fleas were/are *BPD traits* that we KOs 'learned' at our

nada's/fada's knee from having grown up in a dysfunctional FOO.

We KOs can get rid of our fleas -- we can unlearn them once

we're able to recognize them but it takes lots of slow, hard and

painful work -- whereas our nada's/fada's can't.

Cheers,

- Edith

<<

Hi PANDS45,

Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner. I've had a very busy day.

The core issue of BPDs is abandonment/entanglement. This occurs

very early in life -- generally within the first two years. One

of the main things you can watch for is the BPD's apparent lack

of boundaries with her child. That is, the child is considered

to be an extension of the BPD and of about the same significance

as a hard-to-control extra arm or leg.

And, the child's *EMOTIONAL* development is not allowed to

surpass the BPD parent's emotional development. Thus, the normal

attempts of the child to become their own person is

thwarted/prevented by the BPD parent because the BPD parent's

cognitive distortions interprets the child's emotional growth

attempts as abandonment.

BPD is recognized as a DSM-IV Axis2 mental illness. The DSM-IV

Axis2 disorders include Borderline PD, Histrionic PD,

Narcissistic PD, and Antisocial PD. There is an overlap of

traits in these diagnostic categories. In other words, there is

no " pure " BPD, HPD, NPD, or APD. Most of the PD'd parents on the

ppl on this list do not have an official diagnosis.

Each of us KOs (Kids Of BPDs) are on this list because someone

in our FOO (ie, family of origin -- our mother and/or father)

had a significant number of Axis2 (ie, personality) disorder

traits. I will refer to our troubled mothers and/or fathers in

the following paragraphs as FOO-Axis2ers (ie, Family-Of-Origin

Axis 2ers).

Not all of the FOO-Axis2ers in our lives raged but, because

raging (ie, exhibiting inappropriate, intense anger) is a fairly

common behavioral trait for Axis2ers, I will use it to discuss

what happened to us Oasans and what brought us to these lists.

And, besides raging, there are other traits our FOO person may

exhibited in varying degrees. These include (but are not limited

to):

- abandonment/entanglement

- unstable and intense relationships

- unstable self-image or sense of self

- impulsiveness

- self-harming behavior

- intense unpredictable mood changes

- feelings of emptiness

- stress-induced paranoid thoughts or dissociative symptoms

(ie, losing touch with reality).

- envy

When we were very little, even before we learned to walk and

talk, when the FOO-Axis2er in our life raged, we cringed. With

the passage of time, when our FOO-Axis2er looked as if s/he was

going to rage, we cringed. This continued until, eventually,

when it was time for us to walk and talk, we didn't walk and

talk like 'normals' -- we'd learned to walk on eggshells, we

talked like co-dependent enablers, and our Self had become

dis-empowered.

Now, years later and as adults, when the phone rings we cringe.

When we think of the FOO-Axis2er or of associating with them, we

cringe. Not only do we cringe but also there are changes that

take place within our body -- eg, our blood pressure, muscle

tone, and heart rate increase. In other words, our innards (ie,

guts/viscera) are in an uproar. Plus, some of us have developed

a 'swiss cheese' brain (ie, we dissociate under stress) from

having had our neurotransmitters splashing around in our brain

over the years due to the FOO-Axis2er's *emotional* abuse.

Normally these internal changes are acute (ie, short-term)

hard-wired 'fight-or-flight' reactions that occur to keep us out

of harms way. But, in our case, they were chronic (long-term)

reactions to *emotional* abuse that had turned into 'conditioned

emotional responses' (CERs). As a result, many of us became

hypervigilant and developed symptoms of PTSD (Post Traumatic

Stress Disorder).

When continued for decades the changes referred to above can

lead down the road to physical illness -- thus the high

incidence of lupus, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel syndrome, and

any number of other autoimmune disorders we've been seeing over

the years in some of the older Oasans on these lists.

Bodily changes in response to STRESS are studied in the academic

area known as psychoneuroimmunology (PNI). Its like Pert

postulated many years ago, and that has since been shown to be

true, there is a constant 'chatter' that goes on between the

cells in our brain (nervous system), our immune system, and our

hormone-producing glands (endocrine system). This 3-way

" mind-body " chatter is carried in cellular signals called cytokines.

As we heal from the chronic exposure to our toxic FOO-Axis2er,

our CERs have to be 'deconditioned' (ie, unlearned) - much like

when Pavlov's dogs eventually stopped salivating even though the

bell was still rung. Our mind and our body must learn to stay

relaxed when the phone rings or when we think of, speak to, or

be around our FOO-Axis2er. Obviously, the conditioning process

took place over a long period of time and, in turn, the

deconditioning process is not going to happen overnight.

I was on these Oasis lists for over two years before I noticed

one day that my lifelong hypervigilance and PTSD had

spontaneously resolved. What a pleasant surprise! I had no idea

that that was going to happen. We Oasans on the original list

were the pioneers. There was no one ahead on the path to guide

our way.

It was another two years before I reached a place of Peace in my

life. Six years ago I still had no idea that what I'd been

subjected to for a lifetime was called abuse. I didn't know then

what 'normal' felt like inside. But I do now.

The validation and support the listmembers here give and receive

facilitates the healing process. Having a good therapist can

also help, journaling can help, as can learning ways to soothe

ourselves.

Most of our Oasans who've been together for 3+ years are at

Peace. This ModOasis list came into being on the 13th of Oct

2000 and we're been watching them make slow but excellent progress.

Our head (cognitive/intellect) understands but our (emotionally

conditioned) innards just can not be hurried along the healing

path. Our guts (ie, viscera) do not have a vocabulary or

understand words. The changes that occur there must undergo a

slow deconditioning process. There is no contest here. Everyone

proceeds at their own pace. But, we now know that there is a

light and room for all at the end of the tunnel.

Our FOO-Axis2er, lacking empathy, had no idea how their abusive

behavior made us feel. Over time, many of us simply numbed out

emotionally. Also, for most of us there was no one to validate

us and/or be supportive. But there's lots of that here on these

lists. One just has to post and check their email and walla!

there it is.

Eventually, in recovery, we can expect our interacting body and

mind to reach a neutral place - just like Pavlov's dogs. Until

then, there's lots of work to be done - learning to recognize

and rid our Self of any acquired 'fleas' (eg, projection,

denial, splitting, rationalization, codependent enabling),

releasing pent up anger, mourning the loss of the parent we

never had, erecting and maintaining our boundaries, earning our

See-Through-Axis2er Goggles (patent pending), pulling out the

FOG hooks (ie, Fear, Obligation, and Guilt), and fine-tuning our

Axis2 radar so we can immediately tell when our boundaries are

being violated. All of these gains help raise our trashed self

esteem.

Not everyone in this world has " ideal " FOO members but, for us

KOs on these lists, a 'just-good-enough' mother/father would

have been just fine.

Sorry I couldn't give you a simple answer about what to do with

the child in question -- eg, turn the parent in to the child

protection agency in your state?? There are mixed feelings of

those KOs on this list. No one gave a damn when I was a kid. But

no one knew anything then about child abuse and parents were

assumed to be responsible for their own (adult) behavior. My

BPD/NPD was an emotional two-year-old in a full-size adult body.

The damage she caused in my life was horrific.

The two texts for this list are SWOE (Chs 1-7 and 11) and

Ann Lawson's book, Understanding The Borderline

Mother. They may help you better understand some of the stuff

I've posted about above.

Good Luck!

Edith

- List Manager / Randi's BPD Central WelcomeToOz email support

groups for the NonBP adult children of personality disordered

parent(s).

>>

[Guest guest]

To Edith and everyone at ModOasis,

I have only just a few days ago come to the realization

that my mother is bpd, and I haven't been able to concentrate

on anything much else since then. All of a sudden, my entire

life makes sense in a way that it never did before, and I

have much more hope that I can become a peaceful and happy person.

This intro that Edith is written is just wonderful, and very very

useful, and I wanted to thank her very much for that.

This is all very new to me, and I am right now just caught up

in the need for affirmation that yes, she DID want to hurt me,

and the reason for that had nothing to do with my own inadequacy

as a human being. Also, I have moved within a close driving

distance of my parents, and I am trying to decide if I should move

away from my home state or not (again--I have before several times),

or if it will be possible to stay connected to my family yet set and

keep boundaries with this woman. Literally every time I am in her

presence is painful for me. So those are the beginning issues.

Cheers

Onnie

[Guest guest]

Onnie,

Welcome to Mod. We do know what you're talking about and validation

is truly one of the first things I think that needs to happen to a

KO (Kid Of).

In so far as living conditions, you couldn't pay me enough money to

live again in the same state as my nada(NOT A MOTHER). I live 1000

miles away and see her once to twice a year and so far that's still

too much from how she showed her butt this lasst time. I mean to

say, even if I was in the worst accident ever and needed assisted

living, I'd rather be homeless than live w/or near that psycho.

You are right in the physiological aspects of being around a nada. I

feel my shoulders becoming tense and many KOs have some serious auto-

immune disorders b/c of how many years they've been exposed to

nada's toxicity.

My fada died of cancer when I was 8 and part of me knows it was b/c

of his decision to move back to his home state a year or so after I

was born so that he could have an ideal relationship w/his nada.

Never mind the fact she beat him til he bled when he was just a

small boy. He was thinking that maybe she had changed when in truth

he just threw away the best opportunity for him to grow when he

moved out of state. I think the rage just ate away at him while my

stupid grandnada is still alive- ugh! I know part of the reason he

also moved back and kept coming back again and again for more

rejection (he was the all bad son, but there were two all bad sons

and two all good sons and the two daughters were just there- one all

bad and the other neutral if there's such a thing w/a nada) was fog

(fear, obligation and guilt). That is also a number one thing a KO

has to face in the recovery process as a bp knows how to use them

like a carpertner knows how to use a skillsaw.

I hope you're in therapy as that really helped me when everything

was coming out. But some Ts just really don't know about bpd. Good

luck w/your getting out of OZ and opening your eyes to the KO world!

Kerrie

> To Edith and everyone at ModOasis,

>

> I have only just a few days ago come to the realization

> that my mother is bpd, and I haven't been able to concentrate

> on anything much else since then. All of a sudden, my entire

> life makes sense in a way that it never did before, and I

> have much more hope that I can become a peaceful and happy

person.

> This intro that Edith is written is just wonderful, and very very

> useful, and I wanted to thank her very much for that.

>

> This is all very new to me, and I am right now just caught up

> in the need for affirmation that yes, she DID want to hurt me,

> and the reason for that had nothing to do with my own inadequacy

> as a human being. Also, I have moved within a close driving

> distance of my parents, and I am trying to decide if I should move

> away from my home state or not (again--I have before several

times),

> or if it will be possible to stay connected to my family yet set

and

> keep boundaries with this woman. Literally every time I am in her

> presence is painful for me. So those are the beginning issues.

>

> Cheers

> Onnie