Re: (unknown)

[Guest guest]

HI :

Hugs to you. When OCD is flaring up and taking over our kids with no

apparent relief in sight, life is incredibly hard.

Please know that contamination OCD is very readily treated, and although

in our experience, it never goes completely away, it can be put into the

background of our kid's lives.

Through exposure and response prevention we have seen our son learn to

clean the toilets with out gloves (after starting with five pairs on!)

and lick the soles of his shoes after walking on the beach (the most

contaminated place on earth to him). Of course he still often just

slips on his shoes leaving the laces really loose rather than touching

them, but he knows this is just error messages/junk mail in his brain,

and if he needs to he can boss it back.

Please tell Henry hi from me and that I know he will get better just

like my son, Steve, has. Good luck, take care, aloha, Kathy (h)

kathy.hi@...

(unknown)

Just writing for a moan really, Henrys hand licking is no better and

it is four weeks till we see the specialist again. We would not have

a problem if he never had to get his hands wet, ever, but that is

not really practical, is it? I'm sick and tired of hearing it may

just be a phase he is going through or attention seeking behaviour,

(how many children on their 7th birthday complain of voices telling

them they must 'do it,' repeatedly, or could think to make that up.

Just feeling really fustrated at the whole situation and feeling too

tired to ever see an end to this. Henry has only been having these

compulsions for 4 months, five maximum, how you all keep such humor

i really don't know.I seem to be picking up that other things are

now bothering him like he has gone particular about drinking after

somebody else from the same bottle (because of their germs), this

never bothered him before, and he is always complaing regularly

about labels in clothes itching, again something he has never done

before. Also today when he was told he was being taken to the zoo,

he really cried because he said he was so happy, is this a normal

reaction for a seven year old, or aren't they just really excited

about things they love doing. It is difficult to not look for OCD

symptoms in everything yet try not miss anything that may be an OCD

symptom, if that makes sense.

Well moan over, they say a problem shared is a problem halved, so

thank you for sharing my fustration. It will all probably look a lot

better in the morning.

thanks again for the support i have had from the group

Alison

[Guest guest]

Dear Alison,

I don't think there could be a connection between eye tics and a lazy

eye. Tics are involuntary muscle contractions that are not part of OCD, but many

kids have both OCD and tics. The most common eye tic is probably excessive

blinking, or an exaggerated opening the eyes wider than normal for a second. Now

that you mention it, a friend's boy does have a tic that makes both eyes look

left , then right in a strange way - but it's not a lazy eye thing. Any doctor

that is treating your son's eye should easily be able to tell if it's a tic

or not, so you probably don't need to worry.

I hope you find a better doctor soon so your little guy can get some

relief. The right doctor and the right treatment makes all the difference!

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Dear Alison,

I don't think there could be a connection between eye tics and a lazy

eye. Tics are involuntary muscle contractions that are not part of OCD, but many

kids have both OCD and tics. The most common eye tic is probably excessive

blinking, or an exaggerated opening the eyes wider than normal for a second. Now

that you mention it, a friend's boy does have a tic that makes both eyes look

left , then right in a strange way - but it's not a lazy eye thing. Any doctor

that is treating your son's eye should easily be able to tell if it's a tic

or not, so you probably don't need to worry.

I hope you find a better doctor soon so your little guy can get some

relief. The right doctor and the right treatment makes all the difference!

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

HI :

Good for you getting prepared with questions ahead of time for the visit

to Henry's doc. That is most of the battle won when finding effective

treatment for OCD.

One mistake I made was to put all my eggs in one basket with a

particular doc and hope for too long that the therapeutic alliance would

work. We wasted a lot of time and money before I learned to cut my

losses and move on to find a more suitable mental health professional.

In my desperation I was willing to try anyone who would give us an

appointment. I had to learn the hard way that I should choose the

doctor based on what I knew was needed for Steve and not hang around

hoping they would come around to providing the right treatment. When I

got fussy about this I found more suitable docs and Steve got well.

Learning to apply the five-visit rule that Dr. Fred Penzel suggested to

me, helped me to find my way with this. Dr. Penzel suggested that if I

found no symptom improvement after five visits that I should move on to

find a new doc. Other parents who have used this rule have shared with

me that it has helped them too.

Please keep us posted about your success with the doc. E & RP originated

in London in 1966 so you should be able to find good practitioners

there. If this doc does not work out the people at Obsessive Action

should be able to help. I have also written to Dr. Jenike to ask for

referrals to docs in other countries, e.g. Japan,and he has kindly

provided names and contacts which have worked out well.

Take care, aloha, Kathy (h)

kthy.hi@...

(unknown)

Lynne,you mentioned eye tics in one of your posts, i may sound silly

but could someone explain what these are, Henry my son is having a

botulism injection in a month for a lazy eye,and i just want to be

sure that there is no chance that it could have anything to do with

tics. The eye drifting is not always noticable.

Coincidently a few of you have mentioned food allergies recently and

Henry was allergic to dairy products, the symptoms cam one quite

suddenly aged about one and a half when his asthma was bad.

Fortunately he no longer has a restricted diet and can tolerate all

foods, although i restrict colourings and additives as these

definately have a negative effect on his behaviour and self control.

Following advise of alot of you on the site i have made another

appointment for next Thursday with the specialist (the one that told

me to ignore his hand licking and it will go away) and am prepared

to ask for a diagnosis one way or the other, an action plan- and how

long she forsees it being before there is any improvement and CBT.

Any further advise on preparation for the appointment will be

greatly received. I am determined that i will not leave the office

this time, unless i get what i want out of this appointment.

Thanks again for all your support in the past, and i hope all your

children have settled down now we are a couple of weeks in to the

new school year.

Alison

[Guest guest]

I still have one of the originals,put out by Joe Weider,advertised by Dave Draper.It was called the 007 Twister,today (yes,you can still buy them) I think they call it the Power Twister.I got hit pretty good in the jaw by that thing myself,and I put a hole in my bedroom wall when it slipped while I was using it sitting up on the bed.With Bullworker,there is no danger on getting hurt.Dawk Korda wrote:

Hi ,I never got hurt using the Bullworker.There was a devise sold years ago,advocated by Dave Draper.I can't really remember the name,but it was a strait bar with two bicycle handle bar grips with a big spring in the middle.The idea was to bring the 2 handles together to build up your chest.It was the opposite princible of the old spring chest expander.One day one of the handles slipped from my grip,and it felt like I got hit by Foreman.The funny thing is it must have whacked some others too,as I saw my freind,who owned one too,wearing his high school football helmet with a full linemans cage facemask while working out with this thing.I think it was called the Power Flex,but I'm not sure.The next year it came out with safety straps on the 2 handles,and then thru law suites it faded off into oblivion.....any of you Bullworkers remember that thing...Dawk.

(unknown)

I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but the guy who wrote it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember, was a monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring inside two metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were steel cables encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs with a Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing in on either end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching a plastic marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression) or you'd pull out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring) using the opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just as good as a Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented piece of exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more compact:

Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the devise he writes about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims the Bullworker was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@...

You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html

He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic Circle.Never heard of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I say go ahead with the yoga.As for pushups,if on the floor pushups are too much now,you might try them against a desk or table.Just place your hands on edge of desk,place your feet back,and lower your chest to desk.Do what you can without strain or pain.As you gain strength in your shoulder,when you can do 25 pain free,then try floor pushups,again train,don't strain.Work your way up from there.

Yeah,that article was laughable.I get a charge out of people who write about something they apparently no nothing,or very little,about.\

Good luck.

Rich

Noshir Mehta wrote:

Oh Rich! I had a good laugh at this article. Good oldBullworker men. Loyal to the last drop! :-) My shoulderis s l o w l y getting better! GAAAA! This week hasbeen HELL! MAJOR pain in the right shoulder and arm!! :-(Been popping ibuprofen like candy!Now! Push ups! I am doing abdominals and waist freehandexercises in addition to the Bulllworker, but would like tofind out about what type of push ups - and HOW to do themso that I gain results, and not PAIN!! :-) HELP!!!!Thinking about maybe adding half an hour of yoga poses inthe morning, too...bad idea? What do you say, guys?Nosh --- richard pancoast wrote:> I just found a site about some sort of Pilates

devise,but> the guy who wrote it had the following to say:The> Bullworker, if you remember, was a monstrous> self-contained exercise device with a giant spring inside> two metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes> were steel cables encapsulated in plastic. To exercise> your muscles and legs with a Bullworker, you would either> compress the spring by pushing in on either end of the> pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching a> plastic marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest> compression) or you'd pull out on the steel cables (which> still compressed the spring) using the opposing muscles> of your arms and legs. > Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is> just as good as a Bullworker and it is certainly a> lighter and a more talented piece of exercise equipment> because it's kinder to use and more compact: >

Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the> devise he writes about weighs 2 pounds,according to the> article.So,he claims the Bullworker was a monstrous,heavy> devise,and that it no longer exists.> I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.> If you'd like to email him,his address is:> boles@...> You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html> > He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic> Circle.Never heard of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.> > > > ---------------------------------> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

[Guest guest]

,thanks for that story! It' made me laugh out loud,again.The Bullworker people are a strange sort,but one group I'm proud to be in with....Dawk.

(unknown)

I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but the guy who wrote it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember, was a monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring inside two metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were steel cables encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs with a Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing in on either end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching a plastic marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression) or you'd pull out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring) using the opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just as good as a Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented piece of exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more compact:

Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the devise he writes about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims the Bullworker was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@...

You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html

He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic Circle.Never heard of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,thanks for that story! It' made me laugh out loud,again.The Bullworker people are a strange sort,but one group I'm proud to be in with....Dawk.

(unknown)

I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but the guy who wrote it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember, was a monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring inside two metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were steel cables encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs with a Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing in on either end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching a plastic marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression) or you'd pull out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring) using the opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just as good as a Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented piece of exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more compact:

Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the devise he writes about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims the Bullworker was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@...

You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html

He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic Circle.Never heard of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,thanks for that story! It' made me laugh out loud,again.The Bullworker people are a strange sort,but one group I'm proud to be in with....Dawk.

(unknown)

I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but the guy who wrote it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember, was a monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring inside two metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were steel cables encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs with a Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing in on either end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching a plastic marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression) or you'd pull out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring) using the opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just as good as a Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented piece of exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more compact:

Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the devise he writes about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims the Bullworker was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@...

You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html

He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic Circle.Never heard of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks,Dawk.

When you believe in something as strongly as we do,in this case the Bullworker,you defend it!

RichDawk Korda wrote:

,thanks for that story! It' made me laugh out loud,again.The Bullworker people are a strange sort,but one group I'm proud to be in with....Dawk.

(unknown)

I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but the guy who wrote it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember, was a monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring inside two metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were steel cables encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs with a Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing in on either end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching a plastic marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression) or you'd pull out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring) using the opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just as good as a Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented piece of exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more compact:

Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the devise he writes about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims the Bullworker was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@...

You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html

He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic Circle.Never heard of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks,Dawk.

When you believe in something as strongly as we do,in this case the Bullworker,you defend it!

RichDawk Korda wrote:

,thanks for that story! It' made me laugh out loud,again.The Bullworker people are a strange sort,but one group I'm proud to be in with....Dawk.

(unknown)

I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but the guy who wrote it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember, was a monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring inside two metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were steel cables encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs with a Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing in on either end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching a plastic marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression) or you'd pull out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring) using the opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just as good as a Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented piece of exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more compact:

Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the devise he writes about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims the Bullworker was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@...

You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html

He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic Circle.Never heard of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Well, I'm almost onto my second month of bullworker. I have noticed

results, but isn't it a slow process? I suppose that's always inevitable

when you want results now!

But I've got a couple of questions...

Can I expect to 'buff up' with the bullworker or is it just going to tone me

- because i'm relatively skinny as it goes - ideally i want to bulk up a

bit.

Secondly - if it is the case that it's going to bulk me up (I know this is

an ammbiguos question) but how long should i expect to consider myself

'buff'. Some of you will say that 'it all depends on genes etc etc...' but

how long on average - is their anyone who thinks they have reached this

stage solely using the bullworker?

As I've already said, i've been using it for 2-months now, holding each

exercise for 10 seconds, wiith 2 repititions, in a few days i intend to

increase it to 3 reps. Does that sound about right?

>

>Reply-To: bullworkerclub

>To: bullworkerclub

>Subject: Re: (unknown)

>Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:24:55 -0700 (PDT)

>

>Thanks,Dawk.

>When you believe in something as strongly as we do,in this case the

>Bullworker,you defend it!

>Rich

>

>Dawk Korda wrote:

>,thanks for that story! It' made me laugh out loud,again.The

>Bullworker people are a strange sort,but one group I'm proud to be in

>with....Dawk.

> (unknown)

>

>

>I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but the guy who wrote

>it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember, was a

>monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring inside two

>metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were steel cables

>encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs with a

>Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing in on either

>end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching a plastic

>marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression) or you'd pull

>out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring) using the

>opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

>Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just as good as a

>Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented piece of

>exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more compact:

>Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the devise he writes

>about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims the Bullworker

>was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

>I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

>If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@...

>You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html

>He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic Circle.Never heard

>of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

>

>

>

>---------------------------------

>Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

>

>__________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Follow directions in Bullworker manual.Seems you are making pretty good progress.And,yes,how much you can bulk up does depend a lot on genes.Those bodybuilders that are huge today are on steroids,whether they admit it or not.I don't recommend that route.Eat as healthy as possible,lots of milk,and you might want to start pushups,etc. to go along with Bullworker.You can build some nice muscle with Bullworker alone,though,.Remember,lean powerful muscles are better than big,showy,useless muscles.But,yes,you do have to keep at it and be patient.You won't get big overnight,or even in two months,but after three months you should show much improvement.Don't try to hurry through thisA better,stronger,more muscular bodyis worth the wait.Above all,NEVER QUIT!You will improve! Hope this helps,and some of the other guys here may have something to say about this,too.My best to you.

Rich

Tucker wrote:

Well, I'm almost onto my second month of bullworker. I have noticed results, but isn't it a slow process? I suppose that's always inevitable when you want results now!But I've got a couple of questions...Can I expect to 'buff up' with the bullworker or is it just going to tone me - because i'm relatively skinny as it goes - ideally i want to bulk up a bit.Secondly - if it is the case that it's going to bulk me up (I know this is an ammbiguos question) but how long should i expect to consider myself 'buff'. Some of you will say that 'it all depends on genes etc etc...' but how long on average - is their anyone who thinks they have reached this stage solely using the bullworker?As I've already said, i've been using it for 2-months now, holding each exercise for 10 seconds, wiith 2 repititions, in a

few days i intend to increase it to 3 reps. Does that sound about right?>>Reply-To: bullworkerclub >To: bullworkerclub >Subject: Re: (unknown)>Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:24:55 -0700 (PDT)>>Thanks,Dawk.>When you believe in something as strongly as we do,in this case the >Bullworker,you defend it!>Rich>>Dawk Korda wrote:>,thanks for that story! It' made me laugh out loud,again.The >Bullworker people are a strange sort,but one group I'm proud to be in >with....Dawk.> (unknown)>>>I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but the guy who wrote >it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember, was a >monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring inside two >metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were steel cables >encapsulated

in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs with a >Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing in on either >end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching a plastic >marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression) or you'd pull >out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring) using the >opposing muscles of your arms and legs.>Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just as good as a >Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented piece of >exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more compact:>Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the devise he writes >about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims the Bullworker >was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.>I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.>If you'd like to email him,his address is:

boles@...>You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html>He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic Circle.Never heard >of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.>>>>--------------------------------->Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page>>__________________________________________________>

[Guest guest]

I think it is you who have revealed yourself.

You make comments like you are the final word when it comes to physical

training and you accept no other viewpoint other than your own.

Please share with us your measurements and abilities so that the group may

assess your success with the BW.

If someone wants to be successful in (any) endevour they should first start

by looking at those who have achieved success in that field. Following what

they did is a good place to start one's own journey.

If someone (like the list member who wanted to gain size) wants to pack on

some muscle mass he would do well to see how other people achieved results.

If one wants to gain size than the hips and legs must be worked. Sadly the

BW does a terrible job at stimulating these vital areas and they just cannot

be exercised adequately.

Dave

(unknown)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but

the

> > guy

> > > who wrote

> > > > >it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember,

> > was a

> > > > >monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring

> > > inside two

> > > > >metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were

steel

> > > cables

> > > > >encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs

> > with a

> > > > >Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing

in

> > on

> > > either

> > > > >end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching

a

> > > plastic

> > > > >marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression)

or

> > > you'd pull

> > > > >out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring)

> > using

> > > the

> > > > >opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

> > > > >Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just

as

> > > good as a

> > > > >Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented

> > > piece of

> > > > >exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more

> compact:

> > > > >Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the

> devise

> > > he writes

> > > > >about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims

> the

> > > Bullworker

> > > > >was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

> > > > >I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

> > > > >If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@g...

> > > > >You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html

> > > > >He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic

> > > Circle.Never heard

> > > > >of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >---------------------------------

> > > > >Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

> > > > >

> > > > >__________________________________________________

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

I think it is you who have revealed yourself.

You make comments like you are the final word when it comes to physical

training and you accept no other viewpoint other than your own.

Please share with us your measurements and abilities so that the group may

assess your success with the BW.

If someone wants to be successful in (any) endevour they should first start

by looking at those who have achieved success in that field. Following what

they did is a good place to start one's own journey.

If someone (like the list member who wanted to gain size) wants to pack on

some muscle mass he would do well to see how other people achieved results.

If one wants to gain size than the hips and legs must be worked. Sadly the

BW does a terrible job at stimulating these vital areas and they just cannot

be exercised adequately.

Dave

(unknown)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but

the

> > guy

> > > who wrote

> > > > >it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember,

> > was a

> > > > >monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring

> > > inside two

> > > > >metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were

steel

> > > cables

> > > > >encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs

> > with a

> > > > >Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing

in

> > on

> > > either

> > > > >end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching

a

> > > plastic

> > > > >marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression)

or

> > > you'd pull

> > > > >out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring)

> > using

> > > the

> > > > >opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

> > > > >Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just

as

> > > good as a

> > > > >Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented

> > > piece of

> > > > >exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more

> compact:

> > > > >Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the

> devise

> > > he writes

> > > > >about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims

> the

> > > Bullworker

> > > > >was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

> > > > >I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

> > > > >If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@g...

> > > > >You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html

> > > > >He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic

> > > Circle.Never heard

> > > > >of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >---------------------------------

> > > > >Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

> > > > >

> > > > >__________________________________________________

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

I think it is you who have revealed yourself.

You make comments like you are the final word when it comes to physical

training and you accept no other viewpoint other than your own.

Please share with us your measurements and abilities so that the group may

assess your success with the BW.

If someone wants to be successful in (any) endevour they should first start

by looking at those who have achieved success in that field. Following what

they did is a good place to start one's own journey.

If someone (like the list member who wanted to gain size) wants to pack on

some muscle mass he would do well to see how other people achieved results.

If one wants to gain size than the hips and legs must be worked. Sadly the

BW does a terrible job at stimulating these vital areas and they just cannot

be exercised adequately.

Dave

(unknown)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but

the

> > guy

> > > who wrote

> > > > >it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember,

> > was a

> > > > >monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring

> > > inside two

> > > > >metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were

steel

> > > cables

> > > > >encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs

> > with a

> > > > >Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing

in

> > on

> > > either

> > > > >end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching

a

> > > plastic

> > > > >marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression)

or

> > > you'd pull

> > > > >out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring)

> > using

> > > the

> > > > >opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

> > > > >Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just

as

> > > good as a

> > > > >Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented

> > > piece of

> > > > >exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more

> compact:

> > > > >Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the

> devise

> > > he writes

> > > > >about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims

> the

> > > Bullworker

> > > > >was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

> > > > >I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

> > > > >If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@g...

> > > > >You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html

> > > > >He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic

> > > Circle.Never heard

> > > > >of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >---------------------------------

> > > > >Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

> > > > >

> > > > >__________________________________________________

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Be honest Dick.

You had success lifting weights because you LIFTED weights.

You didn't make the 1000lb club on your very first attempts at lifting, did

you?

If your success with the BW was so remarkable than why didn't you train with

it exclusively?

The reason most of us have a fondness for the BW is that it probably was the

first method of training we employed in our early teens. A period filled

with great insecurities. A time when we were ashamed of our skinny bodies

and wanted real he-man muscles.

This is also the reason we have a fondness for those Atlas ads.

They are ingrained in our minds and take us back to a time when we had the

fantasy of developing rippling muscles and girls would flock to us at the

beach.

Using the BW, or any device, when one has never done any physical training

(which in the case of the skinny 13-16 year-old teen) is going to bring

about some sort of result- sometimes even imagined (which is the case with

those who reported results after the first few sessions). Thus the lifelong

link is formed: the BW=results.

But you never would've made the 1000lb. club using the BW alone.

Thank the BW for putting you on the path of strength and health. Remember it

fondly and even continue to use it today. But don't overhype what it can do.

You mislead those who really want to change their physique.

Dave

(unknown)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but the

> guy

> > who wrote

> > > >it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember,

> was a

> > > >monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring

> > inside two

> > > >metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were steel

> > cables

> > > >encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs

> with a

> > > >Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing in

> on

> > either

> > > >end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching a

> > plastic

> > > >marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression) or

> > you'd pull

> > > >out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring)

> using

> > the

> > > >opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

> > > >Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just as

> > good as a

> > > >Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented

> > piece of

> > > >exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more compact:

> > > >Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the devise

> > he writes

> > > >about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims the

> > Bullworker

> > > >was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

> > > >I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

> > > >If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@g...

> > > >You can read the article at:

> > > >goinside.com/00/4/magic.html<http://goinside.com/00/4/magic.html>

> > > >He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic

> > Circle.Never heard

> > > >of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >---------------------------------

> > > >Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

> > > >

> > > >__________________________________________________

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Well of course, my " comments " have nothing to do with this. I have

simply stated what has been researched in the lab and on the field.

I have provided a place for you to go and get educated on the

effectivness of isometric contractions. You have failed to do so

and simply resorted to name calling, a trait which you seem to be

fairly good at it.

Why don't you pick up a copy of the Supertraining Book and check it

out. A little education might help.

Regarding my size and abilities, they are irrelevant to our

conversation, no? ly, if I were Athlete " A " endorsing the BW

or a weight set, what would that prove; well nothing.

The fact remains that one can ad muscle mass in a variety of ways,

all you need is place muscles under tension for a period of time.

Isometrics can do this as can weights, tubes, springs, bodyweight

etc etc.

You can figure this out, can't you?

Oh, and BTW, your statement about gaining mass and working the hips

and legs is frankly, wrong. You have seen wheelchair athletes, no?

Some have very very impressive mass in their upper bodies. Hmmmm,

how did they do that? Where is your research that shows that overall muscle

mass is determined by working the hips and legs?????

Having said that, working the lower body with the BW is difficult

and one has to resort to other isometric actions to do a good job

there.

BTW- I deleted your post insulting our British friends. I was

tempted to pass it on so that folks could see what a child you

really are but my judgement got the better of me.

Try to grow up before you next post!

Hi ,I never got

> > hurt

> > > > > >using the Bullworker.There was a devise sold years

> > ago,advocated

> > > > by Dave

> > > > > >Draper.I can't really remember the name,but it was a

strait

> > bar

> > > > with two

> > > > > >bicycle handle bar grips with a big spring in the

middle.The

> > > idea

> > > > was to

> > > > > >bring the 2 handles together to build up your chest.It was

> the

> > > > opposite

> > > > > >princible of the old spring chest expander.One day one of

> the

> > > > handles

> > > > > >slipped from my grip,and it felt like I got hit by

> > > > Foreman.The funny

> > > > > >thing is it must have whacked some others too,as I saw my

> > > > freind,who owned

> > > > > >one too,wearing his high school football helmet with a

full

> > > > linemans cage

> > > > > >facemask while working out with this thing.I think it was

> > called

> > > > the Power

> > > > > >Flex,but I'm not sure.The next year it came out with

safety

> > > > straps on the 2

> > > > > >handles,and then thru law suites it faded off into

> > > > oblivion.....any of you

> > > > > >Bullworkers remember that thing...Dawk.

> > > > > > (unknown)

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but

> the

> > > guy

> > > > who wrote

> > > > > >it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you

remember,

> > > was a

> > > > > >monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant

spring

> > > > inside two

> > > > > >metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were

> steel

> > > > cables

> > > > > >encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and

legs

> > > with a

> > > > > >Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by

pushing

> in

> > > on

> > > > either

> > > > > >end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by

watching

> a

> > > > plastic

> > > > > >marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression)

> or

> > > > you'd pull

> > > > > >out on the steel cables (which still compressed the

spring)

> > > using

> > > > the

> > > > > >opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

> > > > > >Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is

just

> as

> > > > good as a

> > > > > >Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more

talented

> > > > piece of

> > > > > >exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more

> > compact:

> > > > > >Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the

> > devise

> > > > he writes

> > > > > >about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he

claims

> > the

> > > > Bullworker

> > > > > >was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

> > > > > >I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

> > > > > >If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@g...

> > > > > >You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html

> > > > > >He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic

> > > > Circle.Never heard

> > > > > >of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >---------------------------------

> > > > > >Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

> > > > > >

> > > > > >__________________________________________________

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Well of course, my " comments " have nothing to do with this. I have

simply stated what has been researched in the lab and on the field.

I have provided a place for you to go and get educated on the

effectivness of isometric contractions. You have failed to do so

and simply resorted to name calling, a trait which you seem to be

fairly good at it.

Why don't you pick up a copy of the Supertraining Book and check it

out. A little education might help.

Regarding my size and abilities, they are irrelevant to our

conversation, no? ly, if I were Athlete " A " endorsing the BW

or a weight set, what would that prove; well nothing.

The fact remains that one can ad muscle mass in a variety of ways,

all you need is place muscles under tension for a period of time.

Isometrics can do this as can weights, tubes, springs, bodyweight

etc etc.

You can figure this out, can't you?

Oh, and BTW, your statement about gaining mass and working the hips

and legs is frankly, wrong. You have seen wheelchair athletes, no?

Some have very very impressive mass in their upper bodies. Hmmmm,

how did they do that? Where is your research that shows that overall muscle

mass is determined by working the hips and legs?????

Having said that, working the lower body with the BW is difficult

and one has to resort to other isometric actions to do a good job

there.

BTW- I deleted your post insulting our British friends. I was

tempted to pass it on so that folks could see what a child you

really are but my judgement got the better of me.

Try to grow up before you next post!

Hi ,I never got

> > hurt

> > > > > >using the Bullworker.There was a devise sold years

> > ago,advocated

> > > > by Dave

> > > > > >Draper.I can't really remember the name,but it was a

strait

> > bar

> > > > with two

> > > > > >bicycle handle bar grips with a big spring in the

middle.The

> > > idea

> > > > was to

> > > > > >bring the 2 handles together to build up your chest.It was

> the

> > > > opposite

> > > > > >princible of the old spring chest expander.One day one of

> the

> > > > handles

> > > > > >slipped from my grip,and it felt like I got hit by

> > > > Foreman.The funny

> > > > > >thing is it must have whacked some others too,as I saw my

> > > > freind,who owned

> > > > > >one too,wearing his high school football helmet with a

full

> > > > linemans cage

> > > > > >facemask while working out with this thing.I think it was

> > called

> > > > the Power

> > > > > >Flex,but I'm not sure.The next year it came out with

safety

> > > > straps on the 2

> > > > > >handles,and then thru law suites it faded off into

> > > > oblivion.....any of you

> > > > > >Bullworkers remember that thing...Dawk.

> > > > > > (unknown)

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but

> the

> > > guy

> > > > who wrote

> > > > > >it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you

remember,

> > > was a

> > > > > >monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant

spring

> > > > inside two

> > > > > >metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were

> steel

> > > > cables

> > > > > >encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and

legs

> > > with a

> > > > > >Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by

pushing

> in

> > > on

> > > > either

> > > > > >end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by

watching

> a

> > > > plastic

> > > > > >marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression)

> or

> > > > you'd pull

> > > > > >out on the steel cables (which still compressed the

spring)

> > > using

> > > > the

> > > > > >opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

> > > > > >Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is

just

> as

> > > > good as a

> > > > > >Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more

talented

> > > > piece of

> > > > > >exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more

> > compact:

> > > > > >Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the

> > devise

> > > > he writes

> > > > > >about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he

claims

> > the

> > > > Bullworker

> > > > > >was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

> > > > > >I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

> > > > > >If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@g...

> > > > > >You can read the article at: goinside.com/00/4/magic.html

> > > > > >He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic

> > > > Circle.Never heard

> > > > > >of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >---------------------------------

> > > > > >Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

> > > > > >

> > > > > >__________________________________________________

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

you misunderstood the point. It was the isometrics that made me

exceptionally strong for my bodysize to start with. Yes, there were a lot

of sets with heavy weights to get to that club. And today I've got screwed

up vertebrate and some other little injuries because of it. And as I got

older, the weights just no longer gave back what I was putting out.

Bodyweight exercises, BW, isometrics, etc are much better.

Go check out www.bronzebowpublishing.com and read the forums, check out the

author, check out the new book Flexercise coming out at the results. You

can to cools stuff without ever touching a barbell.

Look at athletes like Herschel for example.

(unknown)

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but the

>> guy

>> > who wrote

>> > > >it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember,

>> was a

>> > > >monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring

>> > inside two

>> > > >metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were steel

>> > cables

>> > > >encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs

>> with a

>> > > >Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing in

>> on

>> > either

>> > > >end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching a

>> > plastic

>> > > >marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression) or

>> > you'd pull

>> > > >out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring)

>> using

>> > the

>> > > >opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

>> > > >Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just as

>> > good as a

>> > > >Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented

>> > piece of

>> > > >exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more compact:

>> > > >Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the devise

>> > he writes

>> > > >about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims the

>> > Bullworker

>> > > >was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

>> > > >I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

>> > > >If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@g...

>> > > >You can read the article at:

>> > > >goinside.com/00/4/magic.html<http://goinside.com/00/4/magic.html>

>> > > >He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic

>> > Circle.Never heard

>> > > >of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >---------------------------------

>> > > >Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

>> > > >

>> > > >__________________________________________________

>> > > >

[Guest guest]

you misunderstood the point. It was the isometrics that made me

exceptionally strong for my bodysize to start with. Yes, there were a lot

of sets with heavy weights to get to that club. And today I've got screwed

up vertebrate and some other little injuries because of it. And as I got

older, the weights just no longer gave back what I was putting out.

Bodyweight exercises, BW, isometrics, etc are much better.

Go check out www.bronzebowpublishing.com and read the forums, check out the

author, check out the new book Flexercise coming out at the results. You

can to cools stuff without ever touching a barbell.

Look at athletes like Herschel for example.

(unknown)

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but the

>> guy

>> > who wrote

>> > > >it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember,

>> was a

>> > > >monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring

>> > inside two

>> > > >metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were steel

>> > cables

>> > > >encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs

>> with a

>> > > >Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing in

>> on

>> > either

>> > > >end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching a

>> > plastic

>> > > >marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression) or

>> > you'd pull

>> > > >out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring)

>> using

>> > the

>> > > >opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

>> > > >Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just as

>> > good as a

>> > > >Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented

>> > piece of

>> > > >exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more compact:

>> > > >Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the devise

>> > he writes

>> > > >about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims the

>> > Bullworker

>> > > >was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

>> > > >I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

>> > > >If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@g...

>> > > >You can read the article at:

>> > > >goinside.com/00/4/magic.html<http://goinside.com/00/4/magic.html>

>> > > >He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic

>> > Circle.Never heard

>> > > >of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >---------------------------------

>> > > >Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

>> > > >

>> > > >__________________________________________________

>> > > >

[Guest guest]

you misunderstood the point. It was the isometrics that made me

exceptionally strong for my bodysize to start with. Yes, there were a lot

of sets with heavy weights to get to that club. And today I've got screwed

up vertebrate and some other little injuries because of it. And as I got

older, the weights just no longer gave back what I was putting out.

Bodyweight exercises, BW, isometrics, etc are much better.

Go check out www.bronzebowpublishing.com and read the forums, check out the

author, check out the new book Flexercise coming out at the results. You

can to cools stuff without ever touching a barbell.

Look at athletes like Herschel for example.

(unknown)

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >I just found a site about some sort of Pilates devise,but the

>> guy

>> > who wrote

>> > > >it had the following to say:The Bullworker, if you remember,

>> was a

>> > > >monstrous self-contained exercise device with a giant spring

>> > inside two

>> > > >metal pipes. Attached on either side of the tubes were steel

>> > cables

>> > > >encapsulated in plastic. To exercise your muscles and legs

>> with a

>> > > >Bullworker, you would either compress the spring by pushing in

>> on

>> > either

>> > > >end of the pipe (gauging your strength progress by watching a

>> > plastic

>> > > >marker on the pipe that tracked your furthest compression) or

>> > you'd pull

>> > > >out on the steel cables (which still compressed the spring)

>> using

>> > the

>> > > >opposing muscles of your arms and legs.

>> > > >Alas, the Bullworker is no more, but a Magic Circle is just as

>> > good as a

>> > > >Bullworker and it is certainly a lighter and a more talented

>> > piece of

>> > > >exercise equipment because it's kinder to use and more compact:

>> > > >Apparently,he knows nothing about the Bullworker.And,the devise

>> > he writes

>> > > >about weighs 2 pounds,according to the article.So,he claims the

>> > Bullworker

>> > > >was a monstrous,heavy devise,and that it no longer exists.

>> > > >I emailed him and politely pointed out his mistakes.

>> > > >If you'd like to email him,his address is: boles@g...

>> > > >You can read the article at:

>> > > >goinside.com/00/4/magic.html<http://goinside.com/00/4/magic.html>

>> > > >He then goes on to say how he was hurt using that Magic

>> > Circle.Never heard

>> > > >of anyone being hurt using Bullworker.

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >---------------------------------

>> > > >Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

>> > > >

>> > > >__________________________________________________

>> > > >

[Guest guest]

hey guys,

so far this forum has been free of the squabbles you guys are in. with the

exception of mr threat of lawsuit guy, there has been no infighting here. if

you disagree thats one thing, but the tone between you guys is weasring a

little thin. take the nastiness offline please.

ed

[Guest guest]

hey guys,

so far this forum has been free of the squabbles you guys are in. with the

exception of mr threat of lawsuit guy, there has been no infighting here. if

you disagree thats one thing, but the tone between you guys is weasring a

little thin. take the nastiness offline please.

ed

[Guest guest]

hey guys,

so far this forum has been free of the squabbles you guys are in. with the

exception of mr threat of lawsuit guy, there has been no infighting here. if

you disagree thats one thing, but the tone between you guys is weasring a

little thin. take the nastiness offline please.

ed