We are worried sick!!!

May 18, 2008

Thanks to everyone who responded to our concern about our six-year old daughter.

Things are getting very bad. In the past couple of days she has changed from

being concerned about " passing gas " to constantly (and I mean constantly) saying

terrible things about her mom and I dying. She is saying things so awful that I

don't even want to type them. We both stayed home from work with her on Friday.

My wife contacted the psychiatrist and she told us to immediately stop the

sertraline (zoloft) and have her take the lorazepam (ativan) - 3 pills a day.

Yesterday (Saturday) was absolutely awful. We feel like we are losing our

daughter. The psychiatrist told my wife that our daughter may need to be taken

to the hospital. My wife asked if we were able to stay with her if she was

admitted. The psych. said " no. " (only during visitor hours). We lost it at

that point. This morning our daughter is crying, saying she wants us to die,

throwing herself around our living room.

We are a mess. We don't want her to go somewhere where we can't be with her

all the time. However, we want to do what is best for her. We are so confused

and worried. Please respond. We feel you people are the ones that truly

understand our situation. Thanks so much, hh

May 18, 2008

Hh,

So sorry you are going through this.

I am concerned whether the medications are making things worse? Not

sure how long your daughter has been on the zoloft, but usually you

want to taper off or you deal with withdrawal.

Can you go to the emergency to get help, but not necessarily admit

her? I would consider this. You can at least see a doctor explain

the situation, re medications and perhaps they can adjust the

medications. You might also call your pharmacist for information

about the medications and side effects, I always find them most

helpful, they know these drugs and their effects.

Some medications can make the obsessions/compulsions worse, we

experienced that, and did have to hospitalize our son. He was 15 and

we found it traumatic for all of us, but at least everyone was safe.

It really depends on whether you feel this is a life threatening

situation. I know how hard this is.

We were allowed to stay, all day if we wanted. We are in Canada, not

sure how it works elsewhere. I would insist on staying, or just not

leave, or not leave your daughter if you don't want to, this should

be your choice, and you should feel better able to decide once you

are their and talk with someone, if this is what you do.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Many hugs!!!

Barb

May 18, 2008

Hi HH, (((hugs)))

Well my first thoughts are: if she is in no danger of harming

herself then don't hospitalize. What they will do at the hospital is

start her on medication and monitor them. Then when she's

stable/improved, send her home. However having worked, as office

support, at our local mental health center and still having a bit

(committee) to do with mental health, I will tell you that she is

definitely not the only young child that has had hospitalization.

Like you though, I would want to be with her (and you won't at

hospital).

I can imagine how hard it is to constantly hear her saying such

terrible things! But it is due to her OCD and I'm guessing partly

due to her frustration, maybe some anger at all that is going on with

her and she may at times sound or feel like she really means some of

them. Like with my son's scrupulosity OCD where he says/thinks

terrible things to God, Jesus. He HATES the thoughts, suffers from

them, but gets so angry about the constant thoughts that at times he

means what he says/thinks and then feels bad that he means

them...viscious circle.

You can let her know that mom/dad know it's the OCD talking. But if

she comments that it's not OCD, she means it, well...say that's OK

too, maybe shrug it off as " some kids just don't like their parents "

and let it go at that.

With OCD medication, the med will sometimes increase the OCD at first

but then that will stop as it begins to work. Doesn't happen with

everyone, but some have said the increase in OCD at first can be an

indication the med will help. But with any med if self-harm thoughts

begin or really impulsive, dangerous actions, etc., then of course

that's not OCD and you would likely try another med or have the psych

add one to the current. Also many say " slow and easy " is the best

way to begin with SSRI medication so it's helpful to know what the

target dosage will be as you start low dose and are moving up.

Are you mostly just ignoring her statements? You might try (just a

thought) asking her something like " well - what are you going to do

after we die? who will you live with? " -- sort of maybe have her do

a " story " ? -- Sometimes when kids have harming thoughts, one way to

do therapy is to have them tell it in a story; what they will do to

the person, how they do it.... Sounds terrible but the goal is to

make them feel the anxiety and at the same time work through it until

they're not feeling as much or any anxiety.

Well these are just some very quick Sunday a.m. thoughts but do keep

us updated on how things are going! This is a good place to vent

when going thru tough times! Or just read.

>

> Thanks to everyone who responded to our concern about our six-year

old daughter. Things are getting very bad. In the past couple of

days she has changed from being concerned about " passing gas " to

constantly (and I mean constantly) saying terrible things about her

mom and I dying. She is saying things so awful that I don't even

want to type them. We both stayed home from work with her on

Friday. My wife contacted the psychiatrist and she told us to

immediately stop the sertraline (zoloft) and have her take the

lorazepam (ativan) - 3 pills a day. Yesterday (Saturday) was

May 18, 2008

Praying for you this afternoon. I know it is a very

difficult place to be in.

Have you spoken with the pharmacist

to also hear their comments as to the medicine?

The absolute best thing you can do, as hard as it is,

is to STAY CALM. Your anxiety will only feed her

anxiety.

I have been there and know that is true. You have

to STAY CALM.

As long as you are in communication with the doctor

and you are close to a hospital, you know you can get

help

if you need to. This is a very bad scenerio

but don't think it is the end and think the worst.

Don't jump to conclusions or see things beyond the

moment.

Things will not always be like they are this moment.

If you can calm down you will make a better decision.

I am praying for you to be able to calm down

and see what is the best choice for the NEXT STEP

you have to take.

Marcia

--- hunter hart wrote:

> Thanks to everyone who responded to our concern

> about our six-year old daughter. Things are getting

> very bad. In the past couple of days she has

> changed from being concerned about " passing gas " to

> constantly (and I mean constantly) saying terrible

> things about her mom and I dying. She is saying

> things so awful that I don't even want to type them.

> We both stayed home from work with her on Friday.

> My wife contacted the psychiatrist and she told us

> to immediately stop the sertraline (zoloft) and have

> her take the lorazepam (ativan) - 3 pills a day.

> Yesterday (Saturday) was absolutely awful. We feel

> like we are losing our daughter. The psychiatrist

> told my wife that our daughter may need to be taken

> to the hospital. My wife asked if we were able to

> stay with her if she was admitted. The psych. said

> " no. " (only during visitor hours). We lost it at

> that point. This morning our daughter is crying,

> saying she wants us to die, throwing herself around

> our living room.

> We are a mess. We don't want her to go somewhere

> where we can't be with her all the time. However,

> we want to do what is best for her. We are so

> confused and worried. Please respond. We feel you

> people are the ones that truly understand our

> situation. Thanks so much, hh

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

May 18, 2008

I can completely understand as my son , now 6, started with all of this at age

4, and we were in the same boat as you. I agree with Chris. Do not hospitalize

her unless she is a danger to herself or you. I had to hospitalize my dd at age

6 and it was very traumatizing for her.

My son said extremely disturbing thoughts all day long and I know what you are

talking about.He was crying, panicking and confused.

Hopefully the ativan will ease the anxiety until your next appointment and you

can figure out what to do with the doctor. In the meantime just try to keep her

occupied with toys, games , anything you can do. I understand that feeling you

have and I remember crying with my husband and actually thinking our son was

" gone " It was a nightmare. Just remember this is her ocd, it's not her. She is

still there even though you may not think it.

We'll all be thinking and praying for you!

Hang in there and keep us posted. Feel free to email privately if you would

like!!!

Hugs

Judy

May 18, 2008

I feel for you. Even writing this, I have an ache in my heart for

you, because I remember our own experiences. <sigh> There are many

in here who've been in crisis mode and know how that feels. I'm sorry

you are having to go through this. I can encourage you though, it

will get better. For us, when it was really bad, it was a matter of

finding the right medication and giving it time to work.

Unfortunately, meds can take some time to work. So, every day I would

tell our son, tomorrow might be the day it starts to get better. It

gave us something to look forward to.

The last time our son was in crisis, I kept repeating, " We've been

through this before. It got better before, it will this time too " . I

was telling our son that, but I think I was reminding myself of that too.

If it were me, I would not put our son in the hospital if I could not

stay. Your daughter is so young, and she is going through a horrible

experience. Separating her from her mother and father, seems to me

that it could make things a lot worse.

gave you some really great information.

Keeping calm on the outside, (even if you are freaking out in the

inside - assuming you could be, because I know I was) is helpful. I

used to paste on my " everything is going to be fine " face, then go

take a shower and have my nervous breakdown. I would dry my tears and

paste my " everything is fine " face back on, to try to keep our son

calm. If he thought I was doing okay and I believed it would get

better, it helped him to think it was going to be okay, eventually,

too. I reminded myself and him that it was OCD, regularly, trying to

keep it in perspective, and to let him know none of it was his fault.

I'm not one to advocate pretending, but with anxiety, it feeds upon

itself. OCD is an anxiety disorder, and I can imagine your precious

daughter is having a lot of anxiety as she is trying to cope with what

it going on. Our son said it helped him a lot that I was calm,

because if I believed it, it gave him something to hang onto and

believe in too.

Can she be distracted at all? There were moments where our son

couldn't be distracted, but moments where he could. Sometimes, we

could distract him with a favorite movie, favorite video game,

something. . . It would take his complete focus off of the thoughts,

and it would give him a small reprieve. I sat with him for hours,

every day, trying different things to help. We watched all 8 seasons

of Magnum PI, because it was a show he liked and could semi get lost

in. We played Kart, over and over and over. At other times, he

was white faced, in the fetal position, unable to be distracted, so I

would rub his back, or his feet, trying anything to bring him some

comfort.

Where your daughter is throwing herself around the room, exerting

energy, I wonder if she is able, if it might help to take a walk

together, to exert energy in a different way. Sometimes a change of

scenery can snap the mind out of it a bit. Sometimes, any change, can

help. Anything to try to redirect her focus. It may not work, but

it's always worth a try.

My son and I would pray together too. Asking God for healing and

strength to get through it. . Again. Thanking Him for getting us

through it before. Our faith sustains us through the darkest times in

life.

I will say a prayer for your family. It is so hard when the OCD is

bad. I promise you, it will not always be this intense. OCD waxes

and wanes, and it's waxing right now for you. There are always good

days and bad days with OCD. . Sometimes good times and bad times. .

..But, if there's one thing you can seem to count on, it is that OCD

will change. When it's as bad as you are experiencing, it can only

change for the better. Don't lose hope.

BJ

>

> Thanks to everyone who responded to our concern about our six-year

old daughter. Things are getting very bad. In the past couple of

days she has changed from being concerned about " passing gas " to

constantly (and I mean constantly) saying terrible things about her

mom and I dying. She is saying things so awful that I don't even want

to type them. We both stayed home from work with her on Friday. My

wife contacted the psychiatrist and she told us to immediately stop

the sertraline (zoloft) and have her take the lorazepam (ativan) - 3

pills a day. Yesterday (Saturday) was absolutely awful. We feel like

we are losing our daughter. The psychiatrist told my wife that our

daughter may need to be taken to the hospital. My wife asked if we

were able to stay with her if she was admitted. The psych. said " no. "

(only during visitor hours). We lost it at that point. This morning

our daughter is crying, saying she wants us to die, throwing herself

around our living room.

> We are a mess. We don't want her to go somewhere where we can't be

with her all the time. However, we want to do what is best for her.

We are so confused and worried. Please respond. We feel you people

are the ones that truly understand our situation. Thanks so much, hh

>

May 18, 2008

I wanted to jump in quickly and say that my DD at age 7 was one of those

that had a lot of increased anxiety when she started Prozac. She could

hardly sit in a chair, she was so anxious. We upped the dose to 30 mgs.

and did a wait and see approach since she wasn't having any self-harm

thoughts. At about the 6 week mark we noticed the anxiety lessening and

by 12 weeks it was nearly gone. She has been on Prozac ever since and

she is 13. (60 mgs. now)

I know it's SO HARD to know if the med. is going to work or not because

you really need to give it a 10-12 week trial at a therapeutic dose to

see if it's going to work. That's a lot of time wasted and having an

out of control anxious child if it doesn't.

Anyhow, I didn't see in your previous posts if she is having any

self-harm thoughts or not, but wanted to give you hope that there may be

a med. out there that will help your child, even if it doesn't look like

it at the beginning. My DD was having continual bad thoughts, all

through the day and the medication really helped.

Dina

May 18, 2008

One more thing, when we had to hospitalize our DD at age 8, we stayed

with her except for the times when my DH drove home to be with our

newborn twins (!) and switched with me so I could go to the hospital. I

dont' know if they made an exception because she stayed in the wing with

the anorexic girls, not the psych ward. Maybe that was the difference.

She definitely still needed us at such a tender age. I think my DD now

at age 13 could handle a hospital stay, but not prior. Age 6? How

scary for her. I would try to find a facility where they will let you

stay.

Take care,

Dina

May 18, 2008

I completely understand your fear and frustration. There have been

several times when our son was on a severe anxiety spike that I

thought for sure that we were going to have to call the police to take

him away. It was a terrible feeling.

That said, are you just using a psychiatrist for treating you child?

The issue that your daughter is dealing with is severe anxiety, and in

my experience medical doctors (peds, pych, etc) feel that medication

is the answer to treating this. I would encourage you, if you haven't

already, to start seeing a psychologist that specializes in OCD if

possible. In those times that my son has had extreme anxiety attacks,

his psychologist has been able to talk with him via phone and help him

manage the thought processes that cause the spike. I don't think

throwing a few benzo's at the anxiety is a quality long-term decision.

My .02

Cameron

May 18, 2008

Sorry things are so difficult right now and I can understand your being

concerned. OCD

can be frustrating and scary at times. I can certainly understand you not

wanting your

daughter at such a young age to be hospitalized; especially if you can't stay

there with

her. Our son with OCD is 17. He has some of the bad thoughts OCD, but I think

they are

pretty mild. He doesn't talk about them with us; just the therapist. I think

being older it is

easier for him to recognize it is the OCD causing the thoughts.

Before we knew our son had OCD, I remember being very worried about him.

He was

having a lot of anxiety and that led to depression. Kept telling us how much he

hated

feeling like he did. We had a wait before we could get him in to a

psychiatrist. Then, of

course, had to wait for medication to start helping. All that time he was

getting more

depressed and withdrawn. He was missing a lot of school because of the anxiety

and

panic attacks. We were quite concerned and started working from home some to be

with

him. At the age of 17, this agitated him; didn't think he needed his parents

home with

him. We had to make excuses for why we were working from home. But, thankfully

after a

few weeks on the meds, we started noticing the depression and anxiety getting

better.

After a couple of months or so, he was more like his old self; except for the

OCD

behaviors. Things will get better for your daughter. Hugs to you. Hang in

there. My

thoughts and prayers are with you.

Take care

Connie

>

> Thanks to everyone who responded to our concern about our six-year old

daughter.

Things are getting very bad. In the past couple of days she has changed from

being

concerned about " passing gas " to constantly (and I mean constantly) saying

terrible things

about her mom and I dying. She is saying things so awful that I don't even want

to type

them. We both stayed home from work with her on Friday. My wife contacted the

psychiatrist and she told us to immediately stop the sertraline (zoloft) and

have her take

the lorazepam (ativan) - 3 pills a day. Yesterday (Saturday) was absolutely

awful. We feel

like we are losing our daughter. The psychiatrist told my wife that our

daughter may need

to be taken to the hospital. My wife asked if we were able to stay with her if

she was

admitted. The psych. said " no. " (only during visitor hours). We lost it at

that point. This

morning our daughter is crying, saying she wants us to die, throwing herself

around our

living room.

> We are a mess. We don't want her to go somewhere where we can't be with her

all the

time. However, we want to do what is best for her. We are so confused and

worried.

Please respond. We feel you people are the ones that truly understand our

situation.

Thanks so much, hh

>

May 18, 2008

My heart is with you. I know this is hard, but there will be a light

one day at the end of the tunnel.

In the mean time, maybe you need a new psychiatrist? at least

another opinion. There is help out there and she shouldn't be this

out of control if she is indeed under qualified care.