Re: Msg 8 Prime Action of the Biceps

[Guest guest]

,

My apology for misinterpreting your comments. I agree with most of your

comments made in regard to steroid use and the programs that they can withstand.

The main point I tried to make was that such programs are not unique to

bodybuilding. You can find many examples of this, perhaps not to the same

extent, but mighty close to it, in the athletic world as well as in other iron

sports. For example, M & F has a special every year on the best bodies in

football and I believe in baseball.

Regarding the supinating curl, this action is often seen by tennis players in

preparation for an overhead serve. It is seen in lacrosse and field hockey

players to some extent in preparation for hitting the puck or a ball. Pitchers

use this action in throwing certain pitches, and so on. Even though these are

not force producing actions, strength of these muscles is still important for

preventing injury to the elbow. The biceps and triceps have a very close

working relationship, and you would be hard pressed to use only the triceps

without the biceps being involved or vice versa.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yessis, Ph.D

President, Sports Training, Inc.

www.dryessis.com

PO Box 460429

Escondido, CA 92046

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message: 8

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:13:10 -0000

Subject: Re: Prime Action of the Biceps

> I would not criticize bodybuilding because of steroid use

since the same can be said of the other iron sports. There is

nothing wrong with reading some of the muscle publications such as

Muscle and Fitness, at least in the past decades, as they have been

innovative in new exercises and exercise regimes. In my estimation,

they are still the best at building muscle regardless of steroids.

Understand that steroids do not make the muscle, training does.

>

******

This is a misinterpretation of my comments about bodybuilding, if

that is what this paragraph is addressing. I did not " criticize

bodybuilding because of steroid use " vs. other sports. I criticized

certain types of bodybuilding exercise protocols because they are

useless to most non-steroid users. Muscles & Fitness is loaded with

pictures of physiques that are simply unattainable without massive

steroid use. It is also filled with routines that are excessive in

terms of volume, frequency, and intensity, often by many times the

amount that would lead to overtraining in most non-steroid users.

Steroid use/abuse may not make muscle, but it makes types of

training regimes possible that vastly exceed most trainees natural

capabilities.

> I disagree with in regard to the supinating curl not being

of any value in sports specific training. This action is seen in

many skills, especially in the preparatory phase of execution.

> It may not contribute to greater power in the end result, but it

is an action that does occur and there is nothing wrong with

strengthening the muscle in these actions. It balances the

development of the triceps and pronators when the athlete executes

elbow extension together with pronation in many throwing and hitting

skills.

****

I'm just not envisioning instances of supinating that are non-

trivial enough in terms of load to warrant specific strengthening

attention. Could you provide an example or two?

Thanks.

Wilbanks

ville, FL

[Guest guest]

>

> > Regarding the supinating curl, this action is often seen by

tennis

> players in preparation for an overhead serve. It is seen in

> lacrosse and field hockey players to some extent in preparation

for

> hitting the puck or a ball. Pitchers use this action in throwing

> certain pitches, and so on. Even though these are not force

> producing actions, strength of these muscles is still important

for

> preventing injury to the elbow. The biceps and triceps have a

very

> close working relationship, and you would be hard pressed to use

> only the triceps without the biceps being involved or vice versa.

> >

>

> Thanks for your response. I still don't I understand why these

> actions would require a specifically targeted exercise in which

one

> deliberately went through a supinating motion. Since, as you say,

> these are not serious force producing actions, couldn't the biceps

> become plenty strong and capable for these purposes via doing a

> compound movement such as pullups with an underhanded grip?

>

> Wilbanks

> ville, FL

,

Here's my opinion, doing that movement is one option for elbow

flexor training. There are several reasons why I would consider

this option:

1) It allows you to go through a greater range of motion for the

biceps brachii muscle (more shortened position in elbow flexion,

more lengthened position in elbow extension)

2) There is a potential " hand-off " effect between all of the elbow

flexors (which may mimic " functional " movement, and even if it

doesn't, it's still a cool variable to elbow flexor training)

3) Depending on how the resistance is applied, you could challenge

all of the functions of the biceps brachii (elbow flexion,

supination, shoulder flexion, shoulder abduction...) under load,

which is also a cool addition to your training program.

4) You don't HAVE to do anything, they're all just options!

Just some thoughts.

Joe DeAntonis

Pittsburgh, PA

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

When I first put this post in, I was just trying to make people aware of the

prime action, as there are always people unaware of certain facts.

I think it best for building size and strength, to try and use the whole muscle

and the whole action of the muscle in a exercise, than to use least part of a

muscle and the least action, to prove a point you can hold a dumbbell and

scratch your ass, and you will be involving your biceps, and you can also do the

dumbbell curl with a twisting action ( most people do it with a twisting action,

if not its called a hammer curl and as we all know your biceps become less

involved) and involve all the muscle mass and its action, and bring much most

muscle fibres in, which would you pick ?

Wayne Rowley

Valletta Malta

>

> > Regarding the supinating curl, this action is often seen by

tennis

> players in preparation for an overhead serve. It is seen in

> lacrosse and field hockey players to some extent in preparation

for

> hitting the puck or a ball. Pitchers use this action in throwing

> certain pitches, and so on. Even though these are not force

> producing actions, strength of these muscles is still important

for

> preventing injury to the elbow. The biceps and triceps have a

very

> close working relationship, and you would be hard pressed to use

> only the triceps without the biceps being involved or vice versa.

> >

>

> Thanks for your response. I still don't I understand why these

> actions would require a specifically targeted exercise in which

one

> deliberately went through a supinating motion. Since, as you say,

> these are not serious force producing actions, couldn't the biceps

> become plenty strong and capable for these purposes via doing a

> compound movement such as pullups with an underhanded grip?

>

> Wilbanks

> ville, FL

,

Here's my opinion, doing that movement is one option for elbow

flexor training. There are several reasons why I would consider

this option:

1) It allows you to go through a greater range of motion for the

biceps brachii muscle (more shortened position in elbow flexion,

more lengthened position in elbow extension)

2) There is a potential " hand-off " effect between all of the elbow

flexors (which may mimic " functional " movement, and even if it

doesn't, it's still a cool variable to elbow flexor training)

3) Depending on how the resistance is applied, you could challenge

all of the functions of the biceps brachii (elbow flexion,

supination, shoulder flexion, shoulder abduction...) under load,

which is also a cool addition to your training program.

4) You don't HAVE to do anything, they're all just options!

Just some thoughts.

Joe DeAntonis

Pittsburgh, PA