Guest guest Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 I agree 100% with you Eddie, the way I see it is nutrition is overlooked, because its one of the things thats taken for granted in the world of athletics. If you ever read about martin in the q and a over at elite you will see that one of his most common complaints of his professional and olympic athletes (as well as prospective pros still in the college ranks) is their complete oversight and misunderstanding of proper nutrition as it relates to them and their sport..He says often times athletes will come to him and have the proper training, genetics and desire to be a true champion and it is their diet that is holding them back. Think about this, all you ever hear about (most often) is the " new miracle supplement " , or " make sure you get enough protein " with little regard to anything else, ie macronutrient timing and combos...there is no glory in it! (or so it seems) and its not very marketable, how many times have you read about a strength coach or trainer (save the one mentioned above) give props to their diet and nutrition strategies prescribed to thier athletes for being the success of their program, you dont, why because that doesnt sell, the training sells and the results speak for that...also some of the problem is the spreading of mis-information or examples of the " genetically gifted " individuals who dont need to " watch what they eat " or make no reference to proper diet that compliments their training, I know one bodybuilder who can eat burger king all day and still look like Arnold...I dont know if I'm getting a little off topic, but so much emphasis has been placed on the " latest in research science, max hypertrophy/dynamic/power routines " that simple nutrition has been overlooked. Palmer MST Cortland, New York Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 Eddie, As a nutritionist I agree with a lot of what you said. But keep in mind, genetics plays an important factor in this too. I would suspect your bodybuilding friend has this in his favor more so then actual nutrition. Yes, nutrition is vitally important in the realm of athletics, whatever sport/activity that my be, and I've always advocated it for as long as I've been a nutritionist (and then some). In essence, the ole' saying: " You are what you eat " is mostly true. McInnes Wilmington, DE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 Hi Eddie: I've been on a macronutrient cycling program by Rob Faigin. The plan is somewhat similar (from my understanding) to Dr. DiPasquale's plans, minus the supplement pushing. The basic premise: change your body's preferred energy source to fat. Use exercise to stimulate larger releases of testosterone and growth hormone while keeping cortisol in check. Consume a " carb-load " meal twice a week to replenish your muscle's glycogen stores, stimulate T3 to regulate metabolism and to spike your insulin to replenish your muscles and tissue and prevent catabolism. The program is excellent for losing body fat while maintaining muscle (or ideally gaining some). There is also a bodybuilder's version that is for building muscle while minimizing body fat gain (or possibly maintaining body fat) but I have not tried that. His exercise philosophy is based on hormonal optimization so it may need to be changed depending on one's needs (I follow a different routine). Also, I'm not sure how applicable the program is for competitive athletes in-season. The author isn't trying to sell anything and backs up everything with numerous cites. The book forced me to reconsider my diet and gave me a new understanding of how my body reacts to different foods. Thanks. Matt Mach Minneapolis, MN Student (Economics and Mathematics), University of Minnesota Studying for NSCA-CPT > Just wondering why no one on the list ever has anything to say about nutrition. We have those who expound on every exercise and its applicability but no one talks, or if they do I haven't seen it, about the most fundamental and anabolic part of training-food. Thirty five years I have been training with weights, powerlifting and olympic lifting and never gave any real thought to what I eat only when I needed to gain or lose weight for a certain weight class. > > Rosemary first suggested to me that probably I had gotten all I was going to in the way of increased strength just by training methods and it was time to do something with my nutrition. With her advice and what I have been able to educate myself on I have been able to cut a lot of body fat and keep and even gain some strength. If an old man like me can do that then any athlete can. Perhaps most athletes and trainers already know this and feel it is a moot point but I don't think so. Here in the mid-west I can guarantee you that very little thought is ever given to nutrition other than supplementation at whatever GNC is selling as the next great wonder supplement. > > I even read an article the other day with no science behind it that it was impossible for a drug free powerlifter to reach his potential with less than 12% bodyfat. Go tell that to some of these 8% body fat bodybuilders who routinely do bench presses with 500 pounds and no fancy shirts or lifting gear. I have a 48 year old friend who has been a natural bodybuilder for thirty years. 5'9 " , 220 pounds, 30 inch waist. Does sets of 12 with seated dumbbell of 110 pounds and can consistently do a very strict slow benchpress with 500. Doesn't know a thing about bands, chains, explosiveness, speed or even who Louis is. He eats about 2500 calories a day with a 55% protein, 35% carb, 15% fat regimen and whatever he wants once a week. Trains the bodybuilder way with the old chest and back one day, legs and arms the second day, day of rest and then repeat. Never does cardio, only a little judo and some yoga. He is by far the strongest man I know naturally in his upper body. He says most of it is nutrition and proper rest. > > I see a lot of people on these high fat diets and cringe at the thought. As researchers and truth seekers in this realm of strength and endurance sports I would love to see someone step forward and give some ideas on nutrition and supplementation that wasn't trying to sell something. I don't necessarily need fifty million scientific references to back up your thoughts either just some common sense reasoning based on your knowledge and experience. Thought that was what this list was supposed to be about- the sharing of ideas not just exact science. But that's just me. > > Eddie White > Blue Springs, Missouri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 Nutrition is obviously important but in in speed or power dominant activities or even when talking about a sport with weight classes, - anytime relative strength is such an important factor my opinion is nutrition is more important in terms of managing body composition than increasing performance directly and that's an area that athletes across the board could pay more attention to. I got a football player who needs to both gain weight and get faster. He's at around 220 lbs. and ~15% bodyfat who really would like to be 230 lbs. and 10%. It ain't gonna happen without a large focus on nutrition to manage and change his body composition. The same thing could happen in lifting. If you're at the top of a weight class and maxed out you can either go up in weight or you can increase your strength at the same weight by improving your relative strength. This means you'll have to change your body composition so that you can be at the same weight with more muscle and less fat. Obviously, this requires attention to nutrition. Now to go in the opposite direction, here's a comment that oughta turn some heads but first realize I have no bias at all from either camp this is just an observation. Bodybuilders obviously pay more attention to their diet than powerlifting - Afterall, being a bodybuilder means that you KNOW without a doubt that success is 90% nutrition. Now what I notice is a lot of Powerlifters make progress because of their lack of attention to diet and bodybuilders fail to make progress because of their attention to diet. That is, if I took an average powerlifter and had him pay as much attention to his diet as a bodybuilder it wouldn't suprise me at all if he got weaker. Just like if I took an average bodybuilder and put him on a typical powerlifter mentality to dieting(just eat by-god!) I'm sure the bodybuilder would come away with some significant muscle and strength and admittedly some fat as well - but that could later be peeled off. Somewhere in the middle between nutritional obsession and avoidance is a happy medium. A 220 lb bodybuilder eating 2500 calories per day and less than 1 gram of carbohydrate per lb of bodyweight?? I call that nearly starvation. Wheres the fuel to improve performance or create more muscle? Other than maintaining a physical appearance how much progress is being made here? As for maximum strength not being displayed under 10-12% bodyfat, this is going to depend largely on how much the metabolism and anabolic drive maintains function or craters in response to the maintenance of low bodyfat levels or dieting. Some people can maintain 6-8% bodyfat without even trying and can eat everything in sight. A lot of pro athletes in american sports fit into this group. But take the average person and diet him down to 6-8% bodyfat and see how much strength or muscle he can gain or what his performance is like in comparison to a higher bodyfat level. However, this process can be avoided with the use of drugs which bodybuilders are known to use plenty of. But even so, many obsessively lean bodybuilders would be amazed how much extra strength and mass they could put on if they did nothing else but let their bodyfat creep up to the magical 12% range because their metabolic functions would be a lot more optimal. Being fed or at a bodyfat level the body considers " normal " for that person is associated with a metabolism and internal function conducive to anabolism, power, speed, strength etc. Anabolic hormones, sympathetic output, thyroid, neuro-transmitters etc. are elevated or at least normal and catabolic hormones like cortisol are lowered. Being starved and dieted causes the exact opposite internal occurences. So,optimizing relative strength and body composition can be a tricky process when carried to extremes. Baggett on, AR USA www.higher-faster-sports.com Just wondering why no one on the list ever has anything to say about nutrition. We have those who expound on every exercise and its applicability but no one talks, or if they do I haven't seen it, about the most fundamental and anabolic part of training-food. Thirty five years I have been training with weights, powerlifting and olympic lifting and never gave any real thought to what I eat only when I needed to gain or lose weight for a certain weight class. > > Rosemary first suggested to me that probably I had gotten all I was going to in the way of increased strength just by training methods and it was time to do something with my nutrition. With her advice and what I have been able to educate myself on I have been able to cut a lot of body fat and keep and even gain some strength. If an old man like me can do that then any athlete can. Perhaps most athletes and trainers already know this and feel it is a moot point but I don't think so. Here in the mid-west I can guarantee you that very little thought is ever given to nutrition other than supplementation at whatever GNC is selling as the next great wonder supplement. > > I even read an article the other day with no science behind it that it was impossible for a drug free powerlifter to reach his potential with less than 12% bodyfat. Go tell that to some of these 8% body fat bodybuilders who routinely do bench presses with 500 pounds and no fancy shirts or lifting gear. I have a 48 year old friend who has been a natural bodybuilder for thirty years. 5'9 " , 220 pounds, 30 inch waist. Does sets of 12 with seated dumbbell of 110 pounds and can consistently do a very strict slow benchpress with 500. Doesn't know a thing about bands, chains, explosiveness, speed or even who Louis is. He eats about 2500 calories a day with a 55% protein, 35% carb, 15% fat regimen and whatever he wants once a week. Trains the bodybuilder way with the old chest and back one day, legs and arms the second day, day of rest and then repeat. Never does cardio, only a little judo and some yoga. He is by far the strongest man I know naturally in his upper body. He says most of it is nutrition and proper rest. > > I see a lot of people on these high fat diets and cringe at the thought. As researchers and truth seekers in this realm of strength and endurance sports I would love to see someone step forward and give some ideas on nutrition and supplementation that wasn't trying to sell something. I don't necessarily need fifty million scientific references to back up your thoughts either just some common sense reasoning based on your knowledge and experience. Thought that was what this list was supposed to be about- the sharing of ideas not just exact science. But that's just me. > > Eddie White > Blue Springs, Missouri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Check my homepage of nutrition and strength training articles: http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~jjhulmi/artikkelit.htm Unfortunately my articles are in Finnish only, but you should check out great articles from Anssi Manninen and others! Juha Hulmi 40740 Jyvaskyla, Finland _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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