Re: Re: pre-exhausting = removing the weak link

[Guest guest]

Yes, during pre-exhaustion are you not creating more weakness in the weak areas

so that they never have a chance to catch up. I think logic would say that

pre-exhaustion has no real support. Lets put it simple, if I wear out a weak

area say before a multi-joint movement, that would take away from my strong

areas because they give out and will not help support?

But lets ask is pre-exhaustion meant for strength, or bodybuilding? I

personally can not see its use for strength.

Lawrence

Haltom city TX

Matti Putkonen wrote:

> I wonder how scientifically supported the theory regarding this method

> is ?

>

> Effect of pre-exhaustion exercise on lower-extremity muscle activation

> during a leg press exercise. (J Strength Cond Res. 2003 May;17(2):411-6.)

>

> " Our findings do not support the popular belief of weight trainers

> that performing pre-exhaustion exercise is more effective in order to

> enhance muscle activity compared with regular weight training.

> Conversely, pre-exhaustion exercise may have disadvantageous effects

> on performance, such as decreased muscle activity and reduction in

> strength, during multijoint exercise. "

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

Matti Putkonen wrote:

> I wonder how scientifically supported the theory regarding this method

> is ?

> Effect of pre-exhaustion exercise on lower-extremity muscle activation

> during a leg press exercise. (J Strength Cond Res. 2003 May;17(2):411-6.)

> " Our findings do not support the popular belief of weight trainers

> that performing pre-exhaustion exercise is more effective in order to

> enhance muscle activity compared with regular weight training.

> Conversely, pre-exhaustion exercise may have disadvantageous effects

> on performance, such as decreased muscle activity and reduction in

> strength, during multijoint exercise. "

>

> ... Could it be that they missed something ?

Yes they did miss something, I put this in one of my older posts, I quote the

below, I have read the full study.

Here is an example of a study trying to prove one compound movement is more

effective than pre-exhaustion is (pre-exhaustion is performing one isolation

movement followed immediately by a compound movement), from a Sweden university.

After I examined the study they were done perfect, but for one small thing, they

tested first the pre-exhaustion (leg extension then leg press) with electrical

devices on the legs, then in 20 minutes they had the people do the leg press

only, and again tested them with the electrical devises emg, they then said

there was much more muscle activity when only the leg press was done, I said

well of course there was as there was still muscle activity going on from the

pre-exhaustion.

Damn fools, I said to do the test right you would need in-between the

pre-exhaustion (leg extension then leg press) say four days, for the muscles to

recover, then do the leg press only, completely unbelievable can you believe it

just 20 minutes in-between tests.

[Wayne, in your paragraph above, you just said " pre-exhaustion is performing on

isolation movement followed IMMEDIATELY by a compound movement. Now you say you

need 4 days in-between? Most would agree pre-exahustion is doing two exercises

in immediate sequence. If the researchers wanted to study the effects of 4

days' rest in between these two exercises, then they would be asking a different

research question. JRG]

Really speaking it was a long drawn out double pre-exhaustion, I wonder what

would have happened if they had done the test testing the leg press only then

the pre-exhaustion; see what i am getting at.

[They probably would have gotten similar results. Muscle activity (EMG)

decreases during muscle fatigue - after a demanding set (e.g, 10 RM) the motor

units will just not fire as much as after an appropriate recovery period. JRG]

When do pre-exhaustion my legs are pumped up for say at least 30 minutes reading

the study I pointed it out to them, anyone who wants the full test just say.

[The study did not measure " pump " , they measured EMG, and repetitions. They

found that after a pre-exhasution set, both were LOWER. " Pump " , for what it is

worth, was not discussed. JRG]

Thank you

Wayne ROWLEY

Valletta Malta

[Guest guest]

Wayne Montierth wrote:

> This type of training is my point exactly. If you are training the

> lats, but all you ever do is train the biceps hard and the lats only

> get a mediocre workout, isn't that a complete waste of time? Why

> not perform an exercise that trains the lats hard, HARD. Isn't that

> the point in the first place?

Hi Wayne,

Yes point taken, I always isolate each bodypart when doing a exercise, for

hypertrophy, then now and again I use pre-exhaustion (and other techniques) to

take a muscle group to a deeper level of failure.

Thank you

Wayne Rowley

Valletta Malta

[Guest guest]

What exactly is the physiology behind " a deeper level of failure " ?

WAYNE G ROWLEY wrote:

> Yes point taken, I always isolate each bodypart when doing a exercise, for

> hypertrophy, then now and again I use pre-exhaustion (and other techniques)

> to take a muscle group to a deeper level of failure.

Hobman

Saskatoon, Canada

[Guest guest]

Wayne:

Good point Wayne. I am not into bodybuilding, but it is obvious to me that

these bodybuilders are able to train their lats doing traditional types of

movements (pulldowns, rows, etc) despite having to train through weaker muscle

groups. The same principle would apply to other areas of the body as well. I

can squat with a lot more weight than I can perform a good morning with, this

does not mean I need to focus on trying to get my low back as strong as my legs

before I can get a good squat workout. I train the low back, but not with the

same intensity as lower body training.

With respect,

Hedrick

Colorado Springs, CO