Re: just joined - have question about floortime therapy

[Guest guest]

Well, Dr.Stanley Greenspan's DIR/Floortime can, just as any method, be as

inexpensive as anything else. Depends on how much time you can implement it

yourself without depending on " providers " . I did DIR/Floortime for several

years with my son with one head therapist(Who was certified) that came to my

home a few days a week and taught me so that I could do the rest. It was years

before I had an " aide " , who was also trained by her, and went to school with my

son with a teacher ,who was also trained by his head therapist. . It's an asset

to be just as knowledgeable, if not more, than those you hire to work with your

child. People that you hire come and go so you don't want to be left without

when someone can't continue on. I wouldn't say it's " glorified " play unless

it's being done by someone who is not educated about what true DIR/Floortime

really is.

For more information you can go to

http://www.icdl.com/dirFloortime/overview/index.shtml

> >

> > I have a 3.5 year old son and I'm thinking about floortime therapy but it is

very expensive. Is there any advice? Can I get help financially from Medicaid?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

AS with anything, you will have to decide where you want to spend $$$.  Our son's medical situation changed drastically when he regressed, so we directed our funds to biomed, diet, and supplements --not to mention travelling to doctors out of state or city and traveling to seminars.

I bought the manual for floortime and the manual for ABA and did the work myself.  I did higher teenagers from time to time and showed them what to do so I could get some other things done.  Of course, this won't work if you work full-time.  I did not go back to teaching full time.  I signed on as a sub after I put him back in school and do some work from home when I can.  But our son is sick A LOT, and if I go back to work full time, it would probably take my whole salary to have  someone else watch him when he is sick, so we decided what would be the point of that? 

These early years are the most important in intervention.  The year and a half I spent working with my son at home brought back some functional speech, eye contact, and pointing.  I made my son make choices between " this or that " for EVERYTHING.  It was a lot of work but well worth it.  During that time, we continued with speech an OT from the school.  He had a fantastic OT at the time.  His speech teacher was good also, but the school wouldn't give us enough so we had to supplement that out of our pockets.

If I had it to do over again, I would add RPM.  I just went to observe at HALO, and it was awesome!H

[Guest guest]

Back in Washington state (where I moved from about 18 months ago), a woman who

ran a child therapy center in a suburb north of Seattle started offering in-home

Floortime services, similar to what you've described. You would get a lead

therapist / program manager and as many aides as deemed necessary / you could

afford. Before her, there was no such thing as paid in-home Floortime therapy

in Wasghington state. I had gone to different Floortime trainings for years

before her clinic started offering paid in-home services, and at every training,

they insisted this was NOT designed to be like ABA where the parent is just the

checkbook. Rather, they insisted that Greenspan's intention was that the parent

be the main therapist and only enlist the help of volunteers (he suggested

church and neighborhood friends) to give the parent a break and the child a

chance to generalize to other people. I distinctly remember it being emphasized

that Floortime was done best by parents, in every day situations (grocery store,

riding in the car, etc.) rather than by paid therapists in clinical settings.

This was why I was so surprised that they started that Floortime clinic north of

Seattle - it seemed to go directly against what Greenspan had said.

Oh, and I only said " glorfied play " and " upping the ante " to simplify and type

less - I know Floortime is a lot more than that.

-

> > >

> > > I have a 3.5 year old son and I'm thinking about floortime therapy but it

is very expensive. Is there any advice? Can I get help financially from

Medicaid?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

:I agree with you.  This is what I did as we could not afford " professionals. "   I was " in my son's business " all the time.  I rarely allowed him to just zone out unless I absolutely had to get something done.  I talked to him all the time.  I played with him all the time.  In the mornings we would be on the day bed and would look out the window, and I would point out different things and say " The bushes, the trees, the grass, the sky, the window, " over and over.  Then we would do the usual songs and games like patty cake and walking in the garden and " Down in the meadow... "   I was very animated, and before my son was kicking his leg up when I said " Shoo! "   Do any of you know this song?  My mom taught it to us:

" Down in the meadow in an itty bitty pool/ swam three little fishies and a mommy fishy, too/Swim, said the mommy fishy/ swim if you can/ and they swam and they swam/ right over the damn!/Boop, boop, didem,dadem,wadem, SHOO!  Boop, boop, didem, dadem, wadem, SHOO!/  Boop, boop, Didem, dadem, wadem, SHOO!  and they swam and they swam right over the damn! "

We would kick our leg up on " Shoo! " and I would tickle him.  He would laugh and give me eye contact!Meal time always meant choices between two things.  TV time always meant at least two choices between two Blues Clues or DORA videos and we'd sit and watch together and I would facilitate responses.  Then we would have outdoor time where we would play " I'm going to get you! "   And my son would run and giggle.  Then after lunch we would work ABA on the beginning curriculum.  He is now up to the advanced curriculum for ABA, and we still play --but he now prefers DAD for play time.  Since he is now 5' and 125 lbs, I suppose this is understandable.  But those early years were spent trying to elicit lots of interaction.  Some of his first phrases were " This one. " and " That one. "

On the road, I pointed out the signs to him and all the signs for businesses.  He learned to read store signs.  I pointed out all the churches and we talked about God.  To this day, when he sees any church, he will say " that's God's church. "   We travelled around so much together that he is better than a GPS.  He seems to know the precise moment we go from one city into the next.  He will definitely tell me if he thinks we're going the wrong way.  In those years, he learned his alphabet, the days of the week, the months of the year, the colors of the rainbow, and all the states and capitals, and the continents and oceans.  This all by age four, and then the district..... so here I sit talking myself back into home-schooling.  I may have to find a way to let hm go to school for the social aspect and the speech services and then pull him half a day for academics.  It would be just too much for him to go there all day and then come home and go to school again.  He's tired by the time he gets home.  But I'm still hoping the school will change....

As far as what you do at home...give it a try; you can do it, and it will be the best thing you ever did.

[Guest guest]

That is awesome, Haven! I wish you could have been with me back in Washington

when I would try to teach other autism parents this concept. I used to co-lead

an autism support group where I periodically trained the parents in Floortime

(basically doing exactly what you described with your son), and I did these

Floortime trainings for a couple of other local groups (school special ed parent

group and the local - Olympia, WA - chapter of the Autism Society of WA). So

many parents had been drilled that they had to pay a professional boatloads of

money for a minimum of 40 hours a week of intense ABA therapy, it was very

difficult to convince them that they themselves could make a difference in their

child's growth for free.

Quite honestly, way back in 2003 when my son regressed and was later diagnosed,

I became very anti-ABA because of this very phenomenon - I was distrustful of

anyone who seemed to be taking financial advantage of desperate autism parents.

I saw ABA as a horribly Pavlovian method of making " different " kids fit a

societal norm. That was why I initially gravitated towards Floortime - it was

more child directed and felt more user friendly.

Now that my son is older and the diagnosis wound is less fresh, I can see the

benefits of all types of therapies. We've tried and had success with ABA,

Floortime, biomedical interventions, as well as traditional medicine and regular

speech and occupational therapy. Now, when I meet new autism parents, I still

advocate trying Floortime-type techniques themselves, but also mention the

benefits we've had paying professionals for these other services / therapies.

-

>

> :

>

> I agree with you. This is what I did as we could not afford

> " professionals. " I was " in my son's business " all the time. I rarely

> allowed him to just zone out unless I absolutely had to get something done.

> I talked to him all the time. I played with him all the time. In the

> mornings we would be on the day bed and would look out the window, and I

> would point out different things and say " The bushes, the trees, the grass,

> the sky, the window, " over and over. Then we would do the usual songs and

> games like patty cake and walking in the garden and " Down in the meadow... "

> I was very animated, and before my son was kicking his leg up when I said

> " Shoo! " Do any of you know this song? My mom taught it to us:

>

> " Down in the meadow in an itty bitty pool/ swam three little fishies and a

> mommy fishy, too/

> Swim, said the mommy fishy/ swim if you can/ and they swam and they swam/

> right over the damn!/

> Boop, boop, didem,dadem,wadem, SHOO! Boop, boop, didem, dadem, wadem,

> SHOO!/ Boop, boop, Didem, dadem, wadem, SHOO! and they swam and they swam

> right over the damn! "

>

> We would kick our leg up on " Shoo! " and I would tickle him. He would laugh

> and give me eye contact!

>

> Meal time always meant choices between two things. TV time always meant at

> least two choices between two Blues Clues or DORA videos and we'd sit and

> watch together and I would facilitate responses. Then we would have outdoor

> time where we would play " I'm going to get you! " And my son would run and

> giggle. Then after lunch we would work ABA on the beginning curriculum. He

> is now up to the advanced curriculum for ABA, and we still play --but he now

> prefers DAD for play time. Since he is now 5' and 125 lbs, I suppose this

> is understandable. But those early years were spent trying to elicit lots

> of interaction. Some of his first phrases were " This one. " and " That one. "

>

> On the road, I pointed out the signs to him and all the signs for

> businesses. He learned to read store signs. I pointed out all the churches

> and we talked about God. To this day, when he sees any church, he will say

> " that's God's church. " We travelled around so much together that he is

> better than a GPS. He seems to know the precise moment we go from one city

> into the next. He will definitely tell me if he thinks we're going the

> wrong way. In those years, he learned his alphabet, the days of the week,

> the months of the year, the colors of the rainbow, and all the states and

> capitals, and the continents and oceans. This all by age four, and then the

> district..... so here I sit talking myself back into home-schooling. I may

> have to find a way to let hm go to school for the social aspect and the

> speech services and then pull him half a day for academics. It would be

> just too much for him to go there all day and then come home and go to

> school again. He's tired by the time he gets home. But I'm still hoping

> the school will change....

>

> As far as what you do at home...give it a try; you can do it, and it will be

> the best thing you ever did.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the information, it has been very helpful. My son is 3.5 and has been evaluated by the school district. They are saying that he is showing some signs of Autism and signs of Apraxia. I placed him in PPCD as recommended but ended up pulling him out after two weeks. It was horrible. The teacher was putting him in "time out" at least 3x a day and holding his hands down and placing chairs around him so that he wouldn't get out. He was coming home so Angry! I couldn't take seeing him like that, so I pulled him out. I placed him back in his regular preschool but now I feel like he has regressed. I don't think his regular preschool teacher was being honest with me. I was under the impression that he was participating in all the activities and that he was playing with the other

children. Apparently, he wasn't. I have observed him several times and he is wandering around or sitting by himself because he doesn't want to sit at the table with the other children. Instead of being in circle time, he is on the sidelines pushing his toy car back and forth. He isn't angry at home anymore but he has recently started lining up his cars (sometimes) and all he wants to do is either watch t.v. or push his train/truck/cars back and forth while lying on the floor. I don't believe that my son has "classic" autism but I do think he may have PDD. I know he needs a more structured environment but I don't want him in PPCD. I'm very disappointed in the whole "special ed" department. They want to push PPCD but they don't want to treat his Apraxia. They are only giving him 2x a week therapy and I have pay for him to have more therapy outside of school. I'm taking him to a develop. ped. in 3

weeks so I'm hoping to finally get some answers. I'm thinking of putting him in Montessori school, what do you think?? I'm waiting to see what the doctor says. In the meantime I'm going crazy worrying about him.

As far as the floortime therapy goes, I'm reading a book by Greenspan and Wieder called "The Child with Special Needs" and it is very interesting. I'm trying to start "floortime" with my son. I do work full-time but I'm planning on quiting my job. I also have a 4 month old and it gets hard sometimes. I want to do anything and everything I can to help my son. Any book suggestions, advice, etc...would be helpful.

Thank you.

Subject: Re: just joined - have question about floortime therapyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 11:06 AM

That is awesome, Haven! I wish you could have been with me back in Washington when I would try to teach other autism parents this concept. I used to co-lead an autism support group where I periodically trained the parents in Floortime (basically doing exactly what you described with your son), and I did these Floortime trainings for a couple of other local groups (school special ed parent group and the local - Olympia, WA - chapter of the Autism Society of WA). So many parents had been drilled that they had to pay a professional boatloads of money for a minimum of 40 hours a week of intense ABA therapy, it was very difficult to convince them that they themselves could make a difference in their child's growth for free. Quite honestly, way back in 2003 when my son regressed and was later diagnosed, I became very anti-ABA because of this very phenomenon - I was distrustful of anyone who seemed to be taking financial advantage of desperate

autism parents. I saw ABA as a horribly Pavlovian method of making "different" kids fit a societal norm. That was why I initially gravitated towards Floortime - it was more child directed and felt more user friendly.Now that my son is older and the diagnosis wound is less fresh, I can see the benefits of all types of therapies. We've tried and had success with ABA, Floortime, biomedical interventions, as well as traditional medicine and regular speech and occupational therapy. Now, when I meet new autism parents, I still advocate trying Floortime-type techniques themselves, but also mention the benefits we've had paying professionals for these other services / therapies.- >> :> > I agree with you. This is what I did as we could not afford> "professionals. " I was "in my son's business" all the time. I rarely> allowed him to just zone out unless I absolutely had to get something done.> I talked to him all the time. I played with him all the time. In the> mornings we would be on the day bed and would look out the window, and I> would point out different things and say "The bushes, the trees, the grass,> the sky, the window," over and over. Then we would do the usual songs and> games like patty cake and walking in the garden and "Down in the meadow..."> I was very animated, and before my son was kicking his leg up when I said> "Shoo!" Do any of you know this song? My mom taught it to us:> > "Down in the meadow in an itty bitty pool/ swam three little fishies and a> mommy fishy,

too/> Swim, said the mommy fishy/ swim if you can/ and they swam and they swam/> right over the damn!/> Boop, boop, didem,dadem, wadem, SHOO! Boop, boop, didem, dadem, wadem,> SHOO!/ Boop, boop, Didem, dadem, wadem, SHOO! and they swam and they swam> right over the damn!"> > We would kick our leg up on "Shoo!" and I would tickle him. He would laugh> and give me eye contact!> > Meal time always meant choices between two things. TV time always meant at> least two choices between two Blues Clues or DORA videos and we'd sit and> watch together and I would facilitate responses. Then we would have outdoor> time where we would play "I'm going to get you!" And my son would run and> giggle. Then after lunch we would work ABA on the beginning curriculum. He> is now up to the advanced curriculum for ABA, and we still play --but he now> prefers DAD for

play time. Since he is now 5' and 125 lbs, I suppose this> is understandable. But those early years were spent trying to elicit lots> of interaction. Some of his first phrases were"This one." and "That one."> > On the road, I pointed out the signs to him and all the signs for> businesses. He learned to read store signs. I pointed out all the churches> and we talked about God. To this day, when he sees any church, he will say> "that's God's church." We travelled around so much together that he is> better than a GPS. He seems to know the precise moment we go from one city> into the next. He will definitely tell me if he thinks we're going the> wrong way. In those years, he learned his alphabet, the days of the week,> the months of the year, the colors of the rainbow, and all the states and> capitals, and the continents and oceans. This all by age four, and then the>

district.... . so here I sit talking myself back into home-schooling. I may> have to find a way to let hm go to school for the social aspect and the> speech services and then pull him half a day for academics. It would be> just too much for him to go there all day and then come home and go to> school again. He's tired by the time he gets home. But I'm still hoping> the school will change....> > As far as what you do at home...give it a try; you can do it, and it will be> the best thing you ever did.>

[Guest guest]

I would suggest that you formally ask your school to do an Autism evaluation on

your son. 'Showing signs of Autism " is not a diagnosis - PDD/NOS is. An

Autismdiagnosis by the school will entitle your son to services that he

otherwise would not qualify for.

[Guest guest]

Yes, for us, blending methods and utilizing many different ideas worked best educationally.  But as far as medically, only biomedical, outside the mainstream thinking has helped our son.  Mainstream docs still just look at us like we are crazy, but I know my son regressed immediately and severely.  His " catatonic " spells scared the hell out of me.  I credit our ECI therapists for starting me down a road of research and first telling me about the gf/cf diet, which helped my son immensely.  Now, I think adding in some RPM type of tutoring may help him to grasp academic subjects.

I still feel that there are just too many out there who want to make a lot of money off our kids.  Where are the humanitarians?  If I get my master's, get certified in RPM, and/or whatever.  I can't see myself doing anything other than a " sliding scale " for payment as I see too many families unable to do anything because they just can't afford it.