Re: diet during pregnancy and big babies

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

My midwife (an ex vegetarian) told me that it is grain based diets (lots of

carbs) which cause babies to gorwo big. The other midwife is a veg. and her

children are half Japanese, she is smal herself but had well over ten pounders.

Genetics aside, I do think that grain based diets can cause large babies at

birth. Just think back to 30 or more years ago when babies who grew to be

6foot8 adults (I know a bunch of those) only weighed 7 at most 8 pounds at

birth.

On the other hand you have the Brewer diet which is high in protein (I'm not

sure about the carbs but I don't think there's any limits) and babies are

supposed to be born large from that diet.

My own experience (4 children one on the way) is that weight gain doesn't

always play a large factor. I gained over 60 pounds with one pregnancy and my

baby was the smallest of my four (6 pounds, 14 ounces.)

During this pregnancy I have cut out grains and eat mostly vegetables, meats,

some egg and wild salmon and some dairy (sheep dairy and raw butter and

butter oil.)

My weight gain is the same as last time (9 pounds so far at 28 weeks), I'm

rather thin and my husband is small and I don't expect to have more than a 7- 7

1/2 pound baby.

I hope this helps you...

Elainie

[Guest guest]

,

Some people are very susceptible to the suggestions of people in authority,

especially when they are entering new ground, feeling insecure, and dealing

with something " medical " . This can be especially true of women during

birth.

There's a natural stage to birth where a woman may become very insecure,

feeling she can't possibly continue, having thoughts of " I can't do this " ,

etc. It occurs right before the pushing stage starts, it's a great signal

to the woman's support (mate, doula) to encourage her all the more and

remind her that she will soon be holding her baby. However, it is often

times misused by people in authority, especially the type that like to think

the birth can't occur without them and their assistance.

Because of what I've mentioned in the above I encourage you to find another

midwife. Your midwife is going to be there with you, and how she views

birth and your ability to birth babies is going to affect her every action

and every word to you. Just being a midwife doesn't mean she doesn't have a

high transport rate (percentage of her clients who end up transported to

hospital), or high csec rate (women who once in the hospital end up having

csections). (Every midwife I interviewed was asked what her transport and

csec rate was.)

Also, because of her recommendation of " moderate protein " I encourage you to

find another midwife. Many studies have been done on protein and good birth

outcomes. They are related.

Nutrition - Tom Brewer is an excellent place to start, your library may have

one of his books. His current book is available as an ebook also. The

website featuring his work is www.blueribbonbaby.org

You can read his diet by clicking on The Brewer Diet for Healthy Pregnancy

link, but it doesn't go into the details of *why* he recommends the milk and

eggs and quantity of protein daily, information that really was important to

me, to help me to keep eating the best foods. Of course on this list we'd

recommend raw milk and homegrown chicken eggs and pasture fed beef... ; )

An EXCELLENT book on nutrition and the importance of protein is by a female

doctor who's name is escaping me. She took off where Brewer left off,

studying births of multiples and the diets of the moms. Her research showed

that eating plenty of protein and nutritious calories was THE key to healthy

multiples.

Not that you have to go and do all that reading, I just want to encourage

you to NOT listen to anyone who wants to limit your protein during

pregnancy.

As for birth size, I think non-nutritious calories (such as sugar) play a

part in big babies, but that's just based on my own experience from my three

pregnancies and what I ate. Not a very scientific study. ; )

_Natural Childbirth the Bradley Way_ by McCutcheon has wonderful

information on the stages of childbirth, relaxation exercises to practice up

until the birth, information on how relaxation will help you to have a

better birth, and wonderful pictures of babies being born without medical

intervention. For my first baby my husband and I did the relaxation

exercises for months leading up to the birth, and I was so relaxed during

labor (prior to pushing) that the midwives thought I was asleep. During the

pushing stage I was so relaxed they couldn't believe it, and I frequently

fell asleep between pushes. For my next two births I did not practice

relaxation ahead of time and wished I had. : )

For other sources for birth stories that will build your belief in yourself

as fully capable of giving birth, you could search on " free birth " and

" unassisted birth " with Google. Our last baby was born at home unassisted.

I encourage you to envision the birth you want every day, and to hold that

goal in mind. With a clear goal of where you want to go, and listening to

your own guidance, I believe you'll find the information you need to get

there - the best support for you, the best diet for you, the best

environment to be in when you birth.

Wishing you the best! : )

Rhea

[Guest guest]

,

In real milk there's no growth hormones anyway. Seems like she's

talking about commercial milk.

--n

> Hi All,

> I am new to the list and have never posted before. I have been on

> something resembling the NT diet for over a year. Now finally I

have

> a question for the group! I am pregnant and saw a midwife who told

me

> to avoid dairy because it contains " growth promoters " that may make

> the baby too large to come out easily. According to her

calculations

> I have a small pelvis and the baby should not get above 7 lbs.

> (Mostly she advocates eating vegetables and moderate protein.) She

> thinks weight gain should be limited to about 20 lbs--I have gained

> way more than this already, with a couple of months to go! I do not

> agree with her perspective, since I don't think my main dietary goal

> is to keep the baby from growing too much. However, I definitely

want

> to avoid a c-section. Do any of you on the list have experience

with

> eating Weston A Price-style during pregnancy? How did your births

> work out, and were your babies really big? TIA!!

>

[Guest guest]

> 4) If you don't feel comfortable with your health-care provider,

you

> should certainly try to work things out with her (or find another

one).

Pat your advice was awesome and clearly from well earned experience.

This above in particular is critical. I cannot stress how

absolutely imperative the woman and her delivery staff be in sync.

The WOMAN must be the driving force on this and if the rest of the

staff (ob, midwife, doula, etc...) can't get on the right page with

her they NEED to be dismissed immediately. Pregnancy may seem long

to those who are pregnant but its a relatively short time and

there's no room for tolerating incompetent birthing staff. And I'd

consider not getting on the same page with the woman to be

incompetence.

DMM

(not formerly pregnant ... just a professional)

[Guest guest]

Dear

There seems to be a lot of fear mongering going on here. The people you

surround yourself with when you are about to go through one of the most

powerful initiations in your life must be able to support your process into

the next stage of your life - mothering. If all they have to say is full of

fear that is the last thing you need and perhaps you will leave them behind.

You didn't say whether you were having a home birth or hospital. If this

midwife is a hospital midwife then I can understand her experience teaching

her that large babies are hard to deliver to small women. She has been

exposed to women who through their own fear have allowed themselves to be

unnaturally interfered with. Not to mention the nutritional position the

majority of women who hospital birth would be in. Very different picture

from you.

If you have consumed enough good quality animal protein and fats -

especially the specific fertility foods that Weston A Price found isolated

native populations feed their mothers to be, your pelvis will support and

deliver your baby with ease as indeed the women he studied did.

She may be right about the milk containing such things. Buying fresh raw

milk from an organic farm and fermenting it will avoid this problem. Check

out the Weston A Price site if you haven't already and follow the eating

guidelines. I think liver (raw and cooked) and fish eggs would be a good

start though.

Is your husband especially huge compared to you? If so I would understand

your midwives concern. However, there is no need to deny your child the

vital nutrients it needs just to appease her or your fear of a difficult

labour. What next, you should start smoking and taking crack to ensure you

have a small baby. Trust your body , why would it put you in danger

by growing a child too big for you to birth.

I have had three babies now and each I delivered vaginally, the last two

without any assistance what so ever, at home, in water. I had a lot to

learn about trusting and letting go at first but by the third child's birth,

I had no experience of pain and felt only bliss the whole labour. They were

all bigger than 7 pound I might add. And if I were to trust doctors and

hospital midwives I would surely have been induced each time because I

happen to have 41 or 42 week pregnancies. They would have considered me

'overdue' and began interfering. My confidence would have been shot and it

would have been down hill from there. C-sections cost around $3000 - how

much of that is the obstetrician paid? I stayed away from the whole lot of

them and had wonderful birth experiences and very contented babies.

Google lotus placenta and unassisted birth and you will find more support

from women who have had good experiences like mine and no fear what so ever.

Joanne

diet during pregnancy and big babies

> Hi All,

> I am new to the list and have never posted before. I have been on

> something resembling the NT diet for over a year. Now finally I have

> a question for the group! I am pregnant and saw a midwife who told me

> to avoid dairy because it contains " growth promoters " that may make

> the baby too large to come out easily. According to her calculations

> I have a small pelvis and the baby should not get above 7 lbs.

> (Mostly she advocates eating vegetables and moderate protein.) She

> thinks weight gain should be limited to about 20 lbs--I have gained

> way more than this already, with a couple of months to go! I do not

> agree with her perspective, since I don't think my main dietary goal

> is to keep the baby from growing too much. However, I definitely want

> to avoid a c-section. Do any of you on the list have experience with

> eating Weston A Price-style during pregnancy? How did your births

> work out, and were your babies really big? TIA!!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>>What next, you should start smoking and taking crack to ensure you

have a small baby.

----->believe it or not, when my mother was pregnant with me, her doctor

advised her to smoke so as to lose weight. she was not overweight, but

apparently the thinking at that time (early 60's) was that pregnant women

shouldn't gain weight.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>. Do any of you on the list have experience with

>eating Weston A Price-style during pregnancy? How did your births

>work out, and were your babies really big? TIA!!

>

My diet has always been " fairly " Weston Price style, and our family

has HUGE babies. Rather awful stories as as result. My first was

10 lb 5 oz or so and 22 inches .. not fat, and I didn't have diabetes.

The second they put me on a drug to make him smaller, because

he had " issues " and they felt the size would just make it worse.

My grandmother's second kid was 13 lb, and he basically didn't

get born, and that was in the 1930's. My dad was big too, and my

mom, and both were born to small women.

I don't know WHY the babies have gotten so big. Mine had

huge heads (they still do, and are full of brains!). I was not

drinking much milk though, so I don't think that was

the issue. Milk DOES have hormones in it, and it may

be a growth promoter, I don't know, but there must be

more to it.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

,

I wish you luck in finding another midwife. When I was pregnant with myfourth

child I went to see a midwife who had a strict list of what to eat and what

not to eat. Dairy was not on her good list. I walked out and never went back.

With my third pregnanct, the midwife was against eating animal foods. Of

course I didn't listen to her nutritional advice and I think that's a pretty

wise

idea these days based on the person's lack of knowledge in this arena.

I would avoid any midwife that is coming from a fear base. Just try to find

someone you feel comfortable with.

I found a midwfe this time who used to be a vegetarian turned paleo/WAP. Even

though I will probably go UC it's nice to know there's someone there who

understands what I'm doing and told me she wished all her clients would eat this

way.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much cabeaumontboraz, Elainie, Pat, Heidi, and Joanne for

responding to my post and sharing your experiences. I am thinking I

will switch midwives... if for no other reason than this one

definitely made me paranoid. (I can live with a disagreement in

approach, but I feel she will have a negative attitude toward my

ability to deliver naturally given what she has said so far, and this

will affect my confidence.) I should have seen this before... one of

the first things she said to me was that her cesarian rate was so low

and it was all due to diet during pregnancy. I would hope that her

other skills would have something to do with it as well... or just

letting birth happen naturally! I do have a another midwife I also

saw, who I can switch to... in some ways she is more

intervention-oriented than I would like, but I think that would be my

best option under the circumstances. Thank you again!

[Guest guest]

Hey Pat, that's great to know. I'm an older mother as well (37)

Elainie

[Guest guest]

I was warned about Louisa being a big baby (baby #2) and so I foolishly

let them induce me early and I ended up with a horrendous c-section.

Lou was 7 lbs 15 oz, and 20.25 inches, a completely reasonably sized

baby. Her sister was 7.5 lbs 23 inches (you read that right) and I

delivered her vaginally.

With Josie (baby #1), I developed pre-eclampsia in week 26 (very

early). The doctor was scared to death Jo would come very early. I

followed Dr. Tom Brewer's diet--salt to taste, at least 110 grams of

protein, including at least two eggs and a quart of milk every day--and

arrested the pre-eclampsia. We went to week 37.

Get a new midwife.

Lynn S.

-----

Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan

The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/

Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/

People-Powered ! http://www.deanforamerica.com/

[Guest guest]

> I found a midwfe this time who used to be a vegetarian turned paleo/WAP. Even

> though I will probably go UC it's nice to know there's someone there who

> understands what I'm doing and told me she wished all her clients would eat

this

> way.

When I was pregnant with my third I was 45 years old, and looking around

for a health provider who would treat me as a normal pregnant woman

(which I was) instead of a medical emergency waiting to happen (because

of my " advanced " age, you understand --- sheesh! I was *forty*-five,

not *eighty*-five!). I met a wonderful local midwife who was also in

her mid-40's, and she assured me that she actually *preferred*

delivering older mothers because they had been much better nourished

while growing up (in the pre-junk-food era of the 1950's), and usually

had easier births.

Pat

[Guest guest]

> So, how does one get over this fear? No-one is going

> to convince me that it's not that painful, so how does

> one approach childbirth knowing that it's going to

> hurt, but not be afraid?

I won't lie, it can really, really hurt. What helped me was education.

Learn as much as you can. Read birth stories. Talk to other women. Even

if you decide to go with drugs, which is a valid option (if you're

induced just go with the drugs, you can't fight pitocin), you need a

non-drug Plan B; there are many situations where you might not be able

to get drugs. A good place to start, run by my friend Robin:

http://pregnancy.about.com/

Lynn S.

-----

Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan

The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/

Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/

People-Powered ! http://www.deanforamerica.com/

[Guest guest]

> The

> pain, the episiotomy (especially the episiotomy) the

> post-birth pain which a friend of mine still has from

> her episiotomy a year after she gave birth, oh, and

> did I mention I'm afraid of the pain????

>

Hi Jo ---

Hey, I was pretty squeamish about the idea of having an episiotomy as

well, so I told my doctor I didn't want one, and she backed me up, even

though she routinely snipped her delivering moms. I had three

good-sized babies, and no episiotomies --- you should be able to find a

health care provider who will agree to this. Episiotomies should be

rare, but expectant mothers aren't always trained in how to push

effectively --- I didn't find it as difficult as I thought it would be.

The trick is to slightly hold back on those final few pushes so you are

easing the baby's head out bit by bit, and letting yourself relax

completely between each push. I didn't even tear at all --- my doctor

was a good coach, and my childbirth educator had worked with us on how

to do this.

Pushing out a baby is the hardest work I've ever done, and it was *way*

beyond uncomfortable, but I didn't have what I would call " pain " exactly

(and I'm a weenie --- not the big brave sort at all). I have migraine

headaches fairly regularly, and *that's* pain, but childbirth to me was

like ... um .... unbelievably bad cramping, and losing control of your

body at times, but I had much more real " pain " when I sprained my ankle,

to be perfectly honest.

Pat

[Guest guest]

Rhea,

If you remember the book or the author name please post it, I am very interested

in reading Tom Brewer's book and this other one you recommend.

Michele

An EXCELLENT book on nutrition and the importance of protein is by a female

doctor who's name is escaping me. She took off where Brewer left off,

studying births of multiples and the diets of the moms. Her research showed

that eating plenty of protein and nutritious calories was THE key to healthy

multiples.

[Guest guest]

There's nothing to be scared of about birthing a baby. I have birthed 4 total

(all at home) and am going to be birthing another one. I have not had an

episiotomy nor have torn. Labors have been quick (under 4 hours) and one birth

was

totally pain free the whole labor and birth lasting a bit over an hour. The

rest of my labors were back labors (with a posterior baby so my back did hurt

some, but being in a tub or pool of water really helps.)

Prenatal yoga is great, I highly recommend it as well as other forms of

physical exercise. Don't be scared, your body was meant for birthing.

There are excellent books that you can read to prepare yourself for

childbirth.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

What books do you reccomend?

Matt Pack

Impack Training Services

>From: zumicat@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Re: diet during pregnancy and big babies

>Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:49:04 EDT

>

>There's nothing to be scared of about birthing a baby. I have birthed 4

>total

>(all at home) and am going to be birthing another one. I have not had an

>episiotomy nor have torn. Labors have been quick (under 4 hours) and one

>birth was

>totally pain free the whole labor and birth lasting a bit over an hour. The

>rest of my labors were back labors (with a posterior baby so my back did

>hurt

>some, but being in a tub or pool of water really helps.)

>

>Prenatal yoga is great, I highly recommend it as well as other forms of

>physical exercise. Don't be scared, your body was meant for birthing.

>

>There are excellent books that you can read to prepare yourself for

>childbirth.

>

>Elainie

>

>

>