Guest guest Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Not illegal at all. You can't charge the insurance carrier. You can and should charge the patient if they've been informed ahead of time, signed an office policy agreeing to it. I usually give them one chance to mess up. The staff both verbally tells them and sends a written reminder of no shows. "The appointment time is reserved specifically for you. We turn others away to save this space for your needs. When you don't give notice and don't show up, we can't offer it to another injured patient." Our fee is $45. They can't re-schedule until they pay it. Minga Guerrero DC abowoman@... No show fee and PIP Is it illegal to charge a PIP patient for a no show if they have signed a financial policy that delineates the no show fee? McCabe, DC, DACBSP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Minga that's great. Do they pay your no show fee? What do you do when it is a new patient? If they dont show up and they know that you will charge them it is probably hard to get them back. I think you can charge the PIP carrier ( I dont know if there is a cpt code for it) Only I have never heard of a PIP carrier paying the fee. Just like you can charge them interest they wont pay it either. To: oregondcs Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:35 PMSubject: Re: No show fee and PIP Not illegal at all. You can't charge the insurance carrier. You can and should charge the patient if they've been informed ahead of time, signed an office policy agreeing to it. I usually give them one chance to mess up. The staff both verbally tells them and sends a written reminder of no shows. "The appointment time is reserved specifically for you. We turn others away to save this space for your needs. When you don't give notice and don't show up, we can't offer it to another injured patient." Our fee is $45. They can't re-schedule until they pay it. Minga Guerrero DCabowoman@... No show fee and PIP Is it illegal to charge a PIP patient for a no show if they have signed a financial policy that delineates the no show fee? McCabe, DC, DACBSP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 You can bill them what you want .....whether they pay it or not is another question. SunnySunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com To: oregondcs From: lauren_mccabe@...Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 01:12:06 +0000Subject: No show fee and PIP Is it illegal to charge a PIP patient for a no show if they have signed a financial policy that delineates the no show fee? McCabe, DC, DACBSP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Minga - I'd like to hear from an attorney as to whether it might be called abandonment not allow hem to reschedule because of failure to pay an missed appointment fee.I personally have never charged for a missed appointment. M Kalb MS DCAuthor of Winning at Aging www.winningataging.com Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com Not illegal at all. You can't charge the insurance carrier. You can and should charge the patient if they've been informed ahead of time, signed an office policy agreeing to it. I usually give them one chance to mess up. The staff both verbally tells them and sends a written reminder of no shows. "The appointment time is reserved specifically for you. We turn others away to save this space for your needs. When you don't give notice and don't show up, we can't offer it to another injured patient." Our fee is $45. They can't re-schedule until they pay it. Minga Guerrero DC abowoman@... No show fee and PIP Is it illegal to charge a PIP patient for a no show if they have signed a financial policy that delineates the no show fee? McCabe, DC, DACBSP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I’ve never charged PIP patients, but do have a “24 Hour Notice” form that is part of everyone’s intake. They must sign it and agree to pay a $50 fee for failure to provide a 24hour notice of cancellation to the office. I use discretion when imposing the fee and it is rare, but it does seem to keep folks on top of their appointments. Most patients understand the need for this and many offer to pay for the visit if they miss it. Repeatedly rude offenders are slapped with the fine. If only we could figure out how to deal with the ones that schedule an appointment and then just don’t show up for it....... ph Medlin D.C. From: Kalb Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:12 PM To: AboWoman@... Cc: oregondcs Subject: Re: No show fee and PIP Minga - I'd like to hear from an attorney as to whether it might be called abandonment not allow hem to reschedule because of failure to pay an missed appointment fee. I personally have never charged for a missed appointment. M Kalb MS DC Author of Winning at Aging www.winningataging.com Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com Not illegal at all. You can't charge the insurance carrier. You can and should charge the patient if they've been informed ahead of time, signed an office policy agreeing to it. I usually give them one chance to mess up. The staff both verbally tells them and sends a written reminder of no shows. "The appointment time is reserved specifically for you. We turn others away to save this space for your needs. When you don't give notice and don't show up, we can't offer it to another injured patient." Our fee is $45. They can't re-schedule until they pay it. Minga Guerrero DCabowoman@... No show fee and PIP Is it illegal to charge a PIP patient for a no show if they have signed a financial policy that delineates the no show fee? McCabe, DC, DACBSP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Doctors, I'm just shooting from the hip here (always dangerous for an attorney), but the PIP statute lays out what providers may charge carriers for services. I don't believe a missed appointment fee is a service. 742.525 Provider charges. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, a provider shall charge a person who receives personal injury protection benefits or that person’s insurer the lesser of: (a) An amount that does not exceed the amount the provider charges the general public; or ( An amount that does not exceed the fee schedules for medical services published pursuant to ORS 656.248 for expenses of medical, hospital, dental, surgical and prosthetic services. From the face of it, .525(1)(a) looks like the carrier could theoretically be on the hook for a missed appointment fee, as long as that fee was the same charged to the general public, since (a) doesn't restrict charges to " services " like (. It could (read: would) certainly be argued that " for medical services " is implied in (a). Anyway, I've never heard of a carrier paying a late fee billed to PIP, and to squarely answer Dr. Kalb's question, I don't know of any reason why a PIP patient would be entitled to miss appointments with impunity, simply because he or she is a PIP patient. I certainly can't imagine a scenario where a patient could bring a successful action against a doctor for " abandonment " because the patient refused to pay a reasonable fee for a missed appointment. Respectfully, Ben > Minga - I'd like to hear from an attorney as to whether it might be called abandonment not allow hem to reschedule because of failure to pay an missed appointment fee. > > I personally have never charged for a missed appointment. > > M Kalb MS DC > Author of Winning at Aging > www.winningataging.com > Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach > www.DrKalb.com > > > > >> >> >> Not illegal at all. You can't charge the insurance carrier. You can and should charge the patient if they've been informed ahead of time, signed an office policy agreeing to it. I usually give them one chance to mess up. The staff both verbally tells them and sends a written reminder of no shows. >> " The appointment time is reserved specifically for you. We turn others away to save this space for your needs. When you don't give notice and don't show up, we can't offer it to another injured patient. " >> >> Our fee is $45. They can't re-schedule until they pay it. >> >> Minga Guerrero DC >> abowoman@... >> >> >> No show fee and PIP >> >> >> Is it illegal to charge a PIP patient for a no show if they have signed a financial policy that delineates the no show fee? >> >> McCabe, DC, DACBSP >> >> > > > -- Ben Attorney at Law 1205 NW 25th Avenue Portland, OR 97210 p. f. e. Ben@... w. coxlawpdx.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 When my husband made an appointment at ZoomCare they took his credit card number and said they charge $99 if he misses his appointment. That is how they get paid if the patient never shows up. I am not sure if we would be allowed to do that with PIP. Schacker, DC, CCSP Chiropractic Physician Certified Chiropractic Sports Physician Schacker Chiropractic Apex Wellness Center 5308 SE Rhone St. Portland, OR 97206-2962 USA This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain medical information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify Schacker Chiropractic LLC and purge this E-mail and destroy all documents related to this message. > > > >> > >> > >> Not illegal at all. You can't charge the insurance > carrier. You can and should charge the patient if they've > been informed ahead of time, signed an office policy > agreeing to it. I usually give them one chance to mess up. > The staff both verbally tells them and sends a written > reminder of no shows. > >> " The appointment time is reserved > specifically for you. We turn others away to save this space > for your needs. When you don't give notice and don't > show up, we can't offer it to another injured patient. " > >> > >> Our fee is $45. They can't re-schedule until they > pay it. > >> > >> Minga Guerrero DC > >> abowoman@... > >> > >> > >> No show fee and PIP > >> > >> > >> Is it illegal to charge a PIP patient for a no show > if they have signed a financial policy that delineates the > no show fee? > >> > >> McCabe, DC, DACBSP > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Ben > Attorney at Law > > 1205 NW 25th Avenue > Portland, OR 97210 > > p. > f. > e. Ben@... > w. coxlawpdx.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > All posts must adhere to OregonDCs rules located on homepage > at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oregondcs/ > Tell a colleague about OregonDCs! (must be licensed Oregon > DC) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Dear colleagues, As per PIP patients a well as work comp patients (probable litigation involved). When this happens on rare occasion I have my staff put the patient in my private office and then I come in and tell them the following; You need to be here for your scheduled appointments because, 1. You have injuries that I can’t fix if you’re not here in short I can’t help you if your simply not here. 2. Staff documents each and every missed appointment and it will not look good for you, for your case, nor to the insurer nor to the court if your case goes to court or hearing. Why? Because the question will arise if Mr. had this or that injured Dr. Saboe and was having these supposed symptoms and they were so significant why did Mr. miss this appointment, this appointment and this appointment etc., etc., etc. reading each and every appointment you missed 3. and finally (Joe, Sally, Sue, Jim whatever) my professional reputation is extremely important to me and I’m not going to look silly on the witness stand or in hearing for anyone including you, so here’s the deal if you miss another appointment I’m going to fire you as my patient, do you understand? I will no longer be willing to manage you case, do you understand me? Kind of rare but it does the trick every time….. As per the standard insurance patient or cash paying patient that constantly misses their appointment and don’t even call to cancel….which I can think of maybe two or three cases over 31 years of practice, I simply send them my termination letter. One of these three or two came in pleading that I take her back as a patient vowing never to miss again…she didn’t….. Vern Saboe From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of ph MedlinSent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:37 AMTo: AboWoman@...; KalbCc: oregondcs Subject: Re: No show fee and PIP I’ve never charged PIP patients, but do have a “24 Hour Notice” form that is part of everyone’s intake. They must sign it and agree to pay a $50 fee for failure to provide a 24hour notice of cancellation to the office. I use discretion when imposing the fee and it is rare, but it does seem to keep folks on top of their appointments. Most patients understand the need for this and many offer to pay for the visit if they miss it. Repeatedly rude offenders are slapped with the fine. If only we could figure out how to deal with the ones that schedule an appointment and then just don’t show up for it....... ph Medlin D.C. From: Kalb Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:12 PMTo: AboWoman@... Cc: oregondcs Subject: Re: No show fee and PIP Minga - I'd like to hear from an attorney as to whether it might be called abandonment not allow hem to reschedule because of failure to pay an missed appointment fee. I personally have never charged for a missed appointment. M Kalb MS DCAuthor of Winning at Aging www.winningataging.com Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com Not illegal at all. You can't charge the insurance carrier. You can and should charge the patient if they've been informed ahead of time, signed an office policy agreeing to it. I usually give them one chance to mess up. The staff both verbally tells them and sends a written reminder of no shows. " The appointment time is reserved specifically for you. We turn others away to save this space for your needs. When you don't give notice and don't show up, we can't offer it to another injured patient. " Our fee is $45. They can't re-schedule until they pay it. Minga Guerrero DCabowoman@... No show fee and PIP Is it illegal to charge a PIP patient for a no show if they have signed a financial policy that delineates the no show fee? McCabe, DC, DACBSP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Elliiot, you CAN NOT charge the ins carrier. It's not their fault if the patient no shows. It's the patient's responsibility to uphold the office policy contract they sign. If it's a new patient, they have not signed a contract. I have never charged a new patient who no shows. I don't advise it. I did have one NP who no showed on 3 consecutive appts. I had the secretary let them know that they needed to pay a $45 fee to 'hold' their appt. The fee would be applied to the first visit when they showed up. However, if they no showed again, the fee would be forfeit. They never called back. I don't m ind losing patients that are that difficult to schedule in the first place. Yes, I have repeat patients who have paid the no show fee. I've had some who bring flowers and chocolates to the front desk with a sincere apology. We waive the NS fee when there is respect...and chocolate! Minga Guerrero DC abowoman@... No show fee and PIP Is it illegal to charge a PIP patient for a no show if they have signed a financial policy that delineates the no show fee? McCabe, DC, DACBSP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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