Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

July 27, 2012

I am forwarding this on, as it just came into me today. I personally do not believe in the devil, but I do believe this county is falling from within.

Back to being serious

Walt

Eagle point

In God We Trust"

This shows how far the progressive, socialist, left has already gotten in â€œtransformingâ€ America.

Do you remember the famous ABC radio news commentator Harvey?

Millions of Americans listened to his programs which were broadcast over 1,200 radio stations nationwide.

When you listen to it, remember the commentary was broadcast 47 years ago.... April 3, 1965.

It's short... less than 3 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/H3Az0okaHig?rel=0

=

Fw: the devilDate: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 19:30:13 -0500

"In God We Trust"

This is really scary. It shows how far the progressive, socialist, left has already gotten in â€œtransformingâ€ America.

Do you remember the famous ABC radio news commentator Harvey?

Millions of Americans listened to his programs which were broadcast over 1,200 radio stations nationwide.

When you listen to it, remember the commentary was broadcast 47 years ago.... April 3, 1965.

It's short... less than 3 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/H3Az0okaHig?rel=0

=

1 of 1 File(s)

Fw_thedevil.eml

July 28, 2012

, it will take more than a few references to prove that our country was founded by deists. It is beyond any reasonable doubt that this country was founded by men and women with deep religious beliefs-chief amongst which was the Christian belief system. Calling our founding fathers and mothers deists really does nothing to change this basic reality . It is merely a word game . In God We Trust really says it all for most of us with an open mind. The God inferred by these powerful words is not a cold impersonal God but a caring loving God who will spare nothing to care for His children.

Schneider DCPDX

Thanks ! I still think they are deists. I am leaving on vacation but I will try to locate some primary references, more than just someone's opinion!

M Kalb MS DC

Author of Winning at Aging www.winningataging.com

Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com

Yesiree my critical thinking friend.

In all fairness, the largest gatherings of Christian quotes from and about our founders will be found on friendly websites so they need to be vetted.

And we must bear in mind that the Salem witch atrocities and others were aberrations just like scaring patients into 180 visit treatment plans on fear of death is not chiropractic. (I never go over 150 visits with my scare patients plan.)

One of my favorite speakers and writers is Rabbi Lapin (probably because of his British accent being from S. Africa).

Lapin (born January 1, 1947) is an American Orthodox rabbi, author, public speaker, and heads the American Alliance of Jews and Christians.

Two of his quotes:

" America is what she is because her founders chose to follow the Word of God. America is as successful as she is because of the Christian system of values our founders implanted in this land. " (Rabbi Lapin. America's Real War . p. 73)

" That America was founded as a Christian nation is beyond debate…we were founded as a Christian nation that took Judeo-Christian principles so much for granted that the founding fathers saw little reasons to state the obvious. " (Lapin. Ibid. p. 93)

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Other stuff listed on a website:

" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion…are undermining the solid morals, the best security for the duration of free government. " ( Carroll. Signer of the Declaration of Independence.)

" Today's widespread relegation of religion to merely something people do only in the privacy of their homes or churches would have been unimaginable to the founders of the republic – even those who personally repudiated orthodox Christian faith. " (p. 121. Colson. Ibid.)

" The Founders believed that pluralism survived only within the concept of religious liberty espoused by American Christianity. " (p. 33)

" My only hope of salvation is in the infinite transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of his Son upon the Cross. Nothing but his blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come quickly! " ( Rush, Signer of the Declaration, The Autobiography of Rush – W. Corner, editor. 1948.)

" Our Founders never envisioned that the First Amendment would become a weapon to excise Christian or traditional religious expressions from the public arena. " ( Barton. Original Intent. p. 150)

" An early House Judiciary Committee affirmed the Founders' lack of pluralistic intent when it declared: ' Christianity…was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.' " (B. F. . The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the Unites States. Philadelphia: Childs. 1864.)

" The Founders understood that Biblical values formed the basis of the republic and that the republic would be destroyed if the people's knowledge of those values should ever be lost. " (Barton. Ibid. p. 337)

" There must be religion. When that ligament is torn, society is disjointed and its members perish. The nation is exposed to foreign violence and domestic convulsion. " (Gouverneur . Signer of the Constitution. Sept. 4, 1816.)

" There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost and religious liberty preserved entire. " ( Witherspoon. May 17, 1776 at Princeton.)

" I have been alternately called an aristocrat and a democrat. I am now neither. I am a Christocrat…He alone who created and redeemed man is qualified to govern him. " ( Rush. Signer of the Declaration of Independence; served in the Presidential administrations of , Jefferson, and Madison.)

" At the time of the adoption of the Constitution…the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the State so far as such encouragement was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience and the freedom of religious worship. " (Supreme Court Justice ph Story. 2 Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States 593.)

" It is not the American tradition for Christians to stay out of politics. Reverend Witherspoon was teacher of Presidents, member of the Continental Congress, and signer of the Declaration of Independence. A majority of the delegates to the Constitutional Convention were professing Christians, many had theological training, and at least one had been a licensed preacher. At least 44 of the delegates to the various state ratifying conventions were ordained ministers. " ( Eidsmoe. Ibid. p. 408.)

" The highest glory of the American Revolution was this, it connected in one indissoluble bond, principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. " ( Quincy . July 4, 1821)

" Whereas we all came into these parts of America with one and the same end and aim, namely, to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ. " (The New England Confederation. May 19, 1643.)

" Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. " (President . Military Address – October 11, 1798.)

" We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God. " ( Madison.)

" Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interests of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. " ( Jay. Supreme Court Chief Justice of the United States. Oct. 12, 1816.)

" Whatever makes men good Christians, makes them good citizens. " ( Webster.)

" 'The Christian Constitutional Society,' its object to be first: the support of the Christian religion; second: the support of the United States. " " ( Hamilton. 1802. Signer and ratifier of the Constitution.)

" The name of American…with slight shades of difference, you have same religion, manners, habits and political principles…Of all the dispositions and habits which led to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. " ( Washington. Sept. 19, 1796. Washington's Farewell Address to the nation.)

" Let my neighbor once persuade himself that there is no God, and he will soon pick my pocket, and break not only my leg but my neck. If there be no God, there is no law, no future account; government then is ordinance of man only, and we cannot be subject to conscience sake. " ( Linn . Chaplain of the House of Representatives in 1789.)

" Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. " ( Jay. Oct. 12, 1816. First Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court.)

" Through most of our history as a nation, Christianity was the dominant religion. At independence, the Founding Fathers declared a national day of prayer and thanksgiving – a holiday we still celebrate. " (Chuck Colson. Dance of Deception. p. 131)

" We have been told over and over that the Founding Fathers were Deists and skeptics. Those who make this claim seldom produce proof for the assertion. Frequently they cite no sources at all. " ( Amos. The Christian and American Law. p. 84)

" Two political-science professors, Lutz and Hyneman, conducted a detailed study of political writings from the founding period of American history, 1760-1805…they studied these closely for the purpose of identifying quotations…where (the framers) derived their ideas…34% was the Bible. " ( Eidsmoe. The Christian and American Law. p. 84)

" The late Dr. M. E. Bradford of the University of Dallas undertook a detailed study of the 55 delegates to the Convention and concluded that at most only three or four of them were Deists. The vast majority were professing Christians and actively affiliated with Christian churches. " ( Eidsmoe. The Christian and American Law. p. 85)

" I believe no one can read the history of our country without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the Saviour have from the beginning been our guiding geniuses…the same objective is present; a Christian land governed by Christian perspectives. " (Earl Warren. Former Governor of California and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Time magazine. Feb. 15, 1954. p. 49.)

" Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith… " (The Mayflower Compact)

" Of the 56 men who signed the nation's birth certificate, definitely 50, maybe 52, were Christians. " (Dr. M. E. Bradford. A Worthy Company. University of Dallas.)

" The Constitution of the United States, declared the skeptical historian H.G. Wells, is 'indubitably Christian.' " (p. 71)

" If the founders of the new nation intended this to be a secular state, then why did they, when governing, perform so many religious acts which were officially part of the government? (p. 73)

" Religion, morality and knowledge being essential to good government and the happiness of mankind… " (Northwest Ordinance of 1787) (p. 73)

" The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. " ( Quincy . Quoted in Verna M. Hall's The Christian History of the Constitution of the United States. 1966.)

" The Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth and laid the corner stone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity. " ( Quincy . An Oration Delivered Before the Inhabitants of th4e Town of Newburyport at their Request on the 61st Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. 1837. p. 5-6.)

" America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scripture. " (President Woodrow )

" The foundations of our society and of our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible, that it would be difficult to support them, if faith in these teachings should cease to be practically universal in this country. " (President Calvin Coolidge)

" Our Founding Fathers established our fledgling nation upon a central belief in a Supreme Power, and they based the government of this republic upon Judeo-Christian principles. Today, Christians are being shocked (rightfully so) by court decisions, legislative actions, and public policies which are brazenly antagonistic to moral (and Biblical) values. " (Vernon McLellan. The Great American Arena! p. 29)

Here is an article from a Jewish scholar who produces some great lectures and hosts on radio:

http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelmedved/2007/10/03/the_founders_intended_a_christian,_not_secular,_society/page/full/

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

<image.jpg>

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 22:42:03 -0700

To: Abrahamson

Cc: " Dr. Vern Saboe " , 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs >

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

- Can you give some reference for your debunking the deist argument?

M Kalb MS DC

Author of Winning at Aging

www.winningataging.com <http://www.winningataging.com>

Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach

www.DrKalb.com <http://www.DrKalb.com>

Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

They were not.

And may God strike you down for saying so.

In a brotherly way, of course!

Smite. Smite. Smite.

Actually, the Diest argument has been pretty thoroughly debunked.

It sort of defines God as a distant being who formed the world and sent it off spinning on its own.

The Judeo-christian God that the founders believed in was a real time father who loves his children and is involved in their lives in a very complicated way.

He invented time so he gets to be everywhere and every when simultaneously.

Sort of like us being able to hold a videotape of a movie with the beginning, middle, and end in hand while the characters have to live out the tape as it goes.

DVDs are more complicated.

But I remember what my old Dad used to say [in discussions] like these:

He’d say, " What the h*ll are you doing in the bathroom day and night?

Why don't you get out of there and give someone else a chance? "

<image.jpg>

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com <http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com/>

<image.jpg>

>

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:14:40 -0700

To: " Dr. Vern Saboe " >

Cc: Sears >, 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs <x-msg://177/oregondcs > >

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Mates - Strictly speaking this nation was founded by " Deists " not " Christians. "

I just copied this from the Deist entry in Wikipedia:

Deism in the United States

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:_Paine.jpg>

Paine

In the United States <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States> , Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution> . American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States> , who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Jefferson, lin, Cornelius Harnett <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Harnett> , Gouverneur <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouverneur_> , and Hugh on <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_on> . Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.

Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include Madison <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Madison> , possibly Hamilton <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Hamilton> , Ethan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_> ,[44] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-43> and Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).

A major contributor was Elihu Palmer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elihu_Palmer> (1764–1806), who wrote the " Bible " of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the " Deistical Society of New York " .

In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-44> [46] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-45> Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of lin, Jefferson, and Washington <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Washington> .[47] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-46> [48] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-47> [49] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-48>

lin wrote in his autobiography, " Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist. My arguments perverted some others, particularly and Ralph; but each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting 's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho' it might be true, was not very useful. " [50] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-49> [51] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-50> lin also wrote that " the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[52] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-51> He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that " the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men. " [53] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-52>

For his part, Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers> with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism> . In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Morals_of_Jesus_of_Nazareth> , but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Ahlstrom> , characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a " theistic rationalist " <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_rationalism> , because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[54] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-53> [55] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-54> Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, where he wrote, " I tremble " at the thought that " God is just, " and he warned of eventual " supernatural influence " to abolish the scourge of slavery.[56] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-55> [57] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-56>

M Kalb MS DC

Author of Winning at Aging

www.winningataging.com <http://www.winningataging.com> <http://www.winningataging.com <http://www.winningataging.com/> >

Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach

www.DrKalb.com <http://www.DrKalb.com> <http://www.DrKalb.com <http://www.DrKalb.com/> >

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation” and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others) are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com <http://www.drvernsaboe.com> <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/>

From: oregondcs <x-msg://177/oregondcs > [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Dear Uncle Vern,

It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?

E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial

Best regards,

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com <http://www.drvernsaboe.com> <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/>

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

-- Schneider DC PDX

July 28, 2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html http://kevincraig.us/deism.htm people will believe what they want to believe.These days you hear more about atheism than deism. It appears to me the models are God will not intervine in human affairs to the other extreme; pray and make offering to God, the gods or the saints about everthing that concerns you. This later perpective is currently very popular in Mexico and other countries like India and more externally visible there than here.The great thing about the USA is you

have the freedom of belief as long as you do no harm. Kahn DC Eugene To: Kalb Cc: Abrahamson ; Sears ; oregondcs DC'S <oregondcs > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:26 PM Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

, it will take more than a few references to prove that our country was founded by deists. It is beyond any reasonable doubt that this country was founded by men and women with deep religious beliefs-chief amongst which was the Christian belief system. Calling our founding fathers and mothers deists really does nothing to change this basic reality . It is merely a word game . In God We Trust really says it all for most of us with an open mind. The God inferred by these powerful words is not a cold impersonal God but a caring loving God who will spare nothing to care for His children.

Schneider DCPDX

Thanks ! I still think they are deists. I am leaving on vacation but I will try to locate some primary references, more than just someone's opinion!

M Kalb MS DC

Author of Winning at Aging http://www.winningataging.com/

Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachhttp://www.drkalb.com/

Yesiree my critical thinking friend.

In all fairness, the largest gatherings of Christian quotes from and about our founders will be found on friendly websites so they need to be vetted.

And we must bear in mind that the Salem witch atrocities and others were aberrations just like scaring patients into 180 visit treatment plans on fear of death is not chiropractic. (I never go over 150 visits with my scare patients plan.)

One of my favorite speakers and writers is Rabbi Lapin (probably because of his British accent being from S. Africa).

Lapin (born January 1, 1947) is an American Orthodox rabbi, author, public speaker, and heads the American Alliance of Jews and Christians.

Two of his quotes:

"America is what she is because her founders chose to follow the Word of God. America is as successful as she is because of the Christian system of values our founders implanted in this land." (Rabbi Lapin. America's Real War . p. 73)

"That America was founded as a Christian nation is beyond debateâ€¦we were founded as a Christian nation that took Judeo-Christian principles so much for granted that the founding fathers saw little reasons to state the obvious." (Lapin. Ibid. p. 93)

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Other stuff listed on a website:

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religionâ€¦are undermining the solid morals, the best security for the duration of free government." ( Carroll. Signer of the Declaration of Independence.)

"Today's widespread relegation of religion to merely something people do only in the privacy of their homes or churches would have been unimaginable to the founders of the republic â€“ even those who personally repudiated orthodox Christian faith." (p. 121. Colson. Ibid.)

"The Founders believed that pluralism survived only within the concept of religious liberty espoused by American Christianity." (p. 33)

"My only hope of salvation is in the infinite transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of his Son upon the Cross. Nothing but his blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come quickly!" ( Rush, Signer of the Declaration, The Autobiography of Rush â€“ W. Corner, editor. 1948.)

"Our Founders never envisioned that the First Amendment would become a weapon to excise Christian or traditional religious expressions from the public arena." ( Barton. Original Intent. p. 150)

"An early House Judiciary Committee affirmed the Founders' lack of pluralistic intent when it declared: ' Christianityâ€¦was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.'" (B. F. . The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the Unites States. Philadelphia: Childs. 1864.)

"The Founders understood that Biblical values formed the basis of the republic and that the republic would be destroyed if the people's knowledge of those values should ever be lost." (Barton. Ibid. p. 337)

"There must be religion. When that ligament is torn, society is disjointed and its members perish. The nation is exposed to foreign violence and domestic convulsion." (Gouverneur . Signer of the Constitution. Sept. 4, 1816.)

"There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost and religious liberty preserved entire." ( Witherspoon. May 17, 1776 at Princeton.)

"I have been alternately called an aristocrat and a democrat. I am now neither. I am a Christocratâ€¦He alone who created and redeemed man is qualified to govern him." ( Rush. Signer of the Declaration of Independence; served in the Presidential administrations of , Jefferson, and Madison.)

"At the time of the adoption of the Constitutionâ€¦the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the State so far as such encouragement was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience and the freedom of religious worship." (Supreme Court Justice ph Story. 2 Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States 593.)

"It is not the American tradition for Christians to stay out of politics. Reverend Witherspoon was teacher of Presidents, member of the Continental Congress, and signer of the Declaration of Independence. A majority of the delegates to the Constitutional Convention were professing Christians, many had theological training, and at least one had been a licensed preacher. At least 44 of the delegates to the various state ratifying conventions were ordained ministers." ( Eidsmoe. Ibid. p. 408.)

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this, it connected in one indissoluble bond, principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." ( Quincy . July 4, 1821)

"Whereas we all came into these parts of America with one and the same end and aim, namely, to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ." (The New England Confederation. May 19, 1643.)

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." (President . Military Address â€“ October 11, 1798.)

"We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God." ( Madison.)

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interests of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." ( Jay. Supreme Court Chief Justice of the United States. Oct. 12, 1816.)

"Whatever makes men good Christians, makes them good citizens." ( Webster.)

"'The Christian Constitutional Society,' its object to be first: the support of the Christian religion; second: the support of the United States.""( Hamilton. 1802. Signer and ratifier of the Constitution.)

"The name of Americanâ€¦with slight shades of difference, you have same religion, manners, habits and political principlesâ€¦Of all the dispositions and habits which led to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports." ( Washington. Sept. 19, 1796. Washington's Farewell Address to the nation.)

"Let my neighbor once persuade himself that there is no God, and he will soon pick my pocket, and break not only my leg but my neck. If there be no God, there is no law, no future account; government then is ordinance of man only, and we cannot be subject to conscience sake." ( Linn . Chaplain of the House of Representatives in 1789.)

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." ( Jay. Oct. 12, 1816. First Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court.)

"Through most of our history as a nation, Christianity was the dominant religion. At independence, the Founding Fathers declared a national day of prayer and thanksgiving â€“ a holiday we still celebrate." (Chuck Colson. Dance of Deception. p. 131)

"We have been told over and over that the Founding Fathers were Deists and skeptics. Those who make this claim seldom produce proof for the assertion. Frequently they cite no sources at all." ( Amos. The Christian and American Law. p. 84)

"Two political-science professors, Lutz and Hyneman, conducted a detailed study of political writings from the founding period of American history, 1760-1805â€¦they studied these closely for the purpose of identifying quotationsâ€¦where (the framers) derived their ideasâ€¦34% was the Bible." ( Eidsmoe. The Christian and American Law. p. 84)

"The late Dr. M. E. Bradford of the University of Dallas undertook a detailed study of the 55 delegates to the Convention and concluded that at most only three or four of them were Deists. The vast majority were professing Christians and actively affiliated with Christian churches." ( Eidsmoe. The Christian and American Law. p. 85)

"I believe no one can read the history of our country without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the Saviour have from the beginning been our guiding geniusesâ€¦the same objective is present; a Christian land governed by Christian perspectives." (Earl Warren. Former Governor of California and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Time magazine. Feb. 15, 1954. p. 49.)

"Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faithâ€¦" (The Mayflower Compact)

"Of the 56 men who signed the nation's birth certificate, definitely 50, maybe 52, were Christians." (Dr. M. E. Bradford. A Worthy Company. University of Dallas.)

"The Constitution of the United States, declared the skeptical historian H.G. Wells, is 'indubitably Christian.'" (p. 71)

"If the founders of the new nation intended this to be a secular state, then why did they, when governing, perform so many religious acts which were officially part of the government? (p. 73)

"Religion, morality and knowledge being essential to good government and the happiness of mankindâ€¦" (Northwest Ordinance of 1787) (p. 73)

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." ( Quincy . Quoted in Verna M. Hall's The Christian History of the Constitution of the United States. 1966.)

"The Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth and laid the corner stone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity." ( Quincy . An Oration Delivered Before the Inhabitants of th4e Town of Newburyport at their Request on the 61st Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. 1837. p. 5-6.)

"America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scripture." (President Woodrow )

"The foundations of our society and of our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible, that it would be difficult to support them, if faith in these teachings should cease to be practically universal in this country." (President Calvin Coolidge)

"Our Founding Fathers established our fledgling nation upon a central belief in a Supreme Power, and they based the government of this republic upon Judeo-Christian principles. Today, Christians are being shocked (rightfully so) by court decisions, legislative actions, and public policies which are brazenly antagonistic to moral (and Biblical) values." (Vernon McLellan. The Great American Arena! p. 29)

Here is an article from a Jewish scholar who produces some great lectures and hosts on radio:

http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelmedved/2007/10/03/the_founders_intended_a_christian,_not_secular,_society/page/full/

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com/

<image.jpg>

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 22:42:03 -0700

To: Abrahamson

Cc: "Dr. Vern Saboe" , 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs >

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

- Can you give some reference for your debunking the deist argument?

M Kalb MS DC

Author of Winning at Aging

http://www.winningataging.com/ <http://www.winningataging.com/>

Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach

http://www.drkalb.com/ <http://www.drkalb.com/>

Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

They were not.

And may God strike you down for saying so.

In a brotherly way, of course!

Smite. Smite. Smite.

Actually, the Diest argument has been pretty thoroughly debunked.

It sort of defines God as a distant being who formed the world and sent it off spinning on its own.

The Judeo-christian God that the founders believed in was a real time father who loves his children and is involved in their lives in a very complicated way.

He invented time so he gets to be everywhere and every when simultaneously.

Sort of like us being able to hold a videotape of a movie with the beginning, middle, and end in hand while the characters have to live out the tape as it goes.

DVDs are more complicated.

But I remember what my old Dad used to say [in discussions] like these:

Heâ€™d say, "What the h*ll are you doing in the bathroom day and night?

Why don't you get out of there and give someone else a chance?"

<image.jpg>

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com/ <http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com/>

<image.jpg>

>

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:14:40 -0700

To: "Dr. Vern Saboe" >

Cc: Sears >, 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs <x-msg://177/oregondcs > >

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Mates - Strictly speaking this nation was founded by "Deists" not "Christians."

I just copied this from the Deist entry in Wikipedia:

Deism in the United States

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:_Paine.jpg>

Paine

In the United States <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States> , Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution> . American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States> , who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Jefferson,

lin, Cornelius Harnett <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Harnett> , Gouverneur <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouverneur_> , and Hugh on <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_on> . Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.

Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include Madison <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Madison> , possibly Hamilton <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Hamilton> , Ethan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_> ,[44] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-43> and Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).

A major contributor was Elihu Palmer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elihu_Palmer> (1764â€“1806), who wrote the "Bible" of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York".

In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-44> [46] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-45> Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of lin, Jefferson, and Washington <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Washington> .[47] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-46> [48] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-47> [49] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-48>

lin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist. My arguments perverted some others, particularly and Ralph; but each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting 's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho' it might be true, was not very useful."[50] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-49> [51]

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-50> lin also wrote that "the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[52] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-51> He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that "the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men."[53] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-52>

For his part, Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers> with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism> . In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Morals_of_Jesus_of_Nazareth> , but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural

and dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Ahlstrom> , characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a "theistic rationalist" <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_rationalism> , because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[54] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-53> [55] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-54> Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, where he wrote, "I tremble" at the thought

that "God is just," and he warned of eventual "supernatural influence" to abolish the scourge of slavery.[56] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-55> [57] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-56>

M Kalb MS DC

Author of Winning at Aging

http://www.winningataging.com/ <http://www.winningataging.com/> <http://www.winningataging.com/ <http://www.winningataging.com/> >

Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach

http://www.drkalb.com/ <http://www.drkalb.com/> <http://www.drkalb.com/ <http://www.DrKalb.com/> >

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a â€œChristian nationâ€ and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others) are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living inâ€¦ blessings, Vern

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: http://www.drvernsaboe.com/ <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/> <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/>

From: oregondcs <x-msg://177/oregondcs > [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Dear Uncle Vern,

It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?

E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial

Best regards,

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nationâ€™s future is just too important the experiment is overâ€¦.just my opinionâ€¦

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: http://www.drvernsaboe.com/ <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/> <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/>

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

-- Schneider DC PDX

August 2, 2012

Someone sent me a link to a video purportedly giving evidence of our founding fathers’ religion.

It’s pretty Christianated but it presents some fairly Incontrovertible evidence.

(Not to be confused with incontrohardtop evidence. Nevermind.)

http://stg.do/Iwpc

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 20:52:40 -0700