Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

[Guest guest]

I agree emphatically!!  Let the experiment end as soon as possible-like this November.  Thanks for sharing Vern. Schneider DCPDX

 

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to

the list serve our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion…

 

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

 

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

 

..

 A good walk for all of us.  Very interesting.

 

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

 

-- Schneider DC PDX

[Guest guest]

not to get in a religious debate [there is enough of that going in the Middle East} okay the Pres may be an ultraliberal Protestant who wans all creeds to share in America but remember the other guy is of a beleif that does not use that symbol or the suprise at the end of the video..That is his right. As a son of a 33 degree Mason who has visted DC a couple of timrs I am of the opinion that this nation is found on Masonic principles. Kahn DC Eugene To: Dr. Vern Saboe Cc: oregondcs DC'S <oregondcs > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 10:23 PM Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

I agree emphatically!! Let the experiment end as soon as possible-like this November. Thanks for sharing Vern. Schneider DCPDX

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to

the list serve our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: http://www.drvernsaboe.com/

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

-- Schneider DC PDX

[Guest guest]

Dear Uncle Vern,It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversialBest regards, Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to

the list serve our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

, you don't get it, it's not about Christianity or non Christianity, ITS ABOUT THE NEW WORLD ORDER. Your deeply saddening statement to Dr. Saboe is really saddening to hear you don't get it and make others not get it. Look deeper, it's not even about Republican or Democrat anymore, that's why the other docs statement from Eugene about "what about the to the guy in this race". again it's not about that either, they are both under the same control, BUT what choice do we have when they set the stage. Once thing for sure it's not about democrat it is about getting Obama out with his belief.

Walt

Eagle point

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.915 19th Ave SEAlbany, OR 97322phone: e-mail: vern@...website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: Rome Hanning Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PMTo: ;Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation” and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others)

are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ]

On Behalf Of Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Dear Uncle Vern,

It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?

E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial

Best regards,

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important

the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

The President makes the same point, that from the many, one America with unity in diversity evolves. Using Christianity (or any religion) to politically divide that unity chills our freedom "to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose," IMHO. Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97210The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation” and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others) are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern -----Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.915 19th Ave SEAlbany, OR 97322phone: e-mail: vern@...website: www.drvernsaboe.com From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of SearsSent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AMTo: Dr. Vern SaboeCc: 'oregondcs DC'S'Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President Dear Uncle Vern, It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree? E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial Best regards, Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209 Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion… -----Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.915 19th Ave SEAlbany, OR 97322phone: e-mail: vern@...website: www.drvernsaboe.com From: Rome Hanning Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PMTo: ;Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President . A good walk for all of us. Very interesting. good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

The President stated “America is not a Christian nation” and I strongly disagree….yes he then went on to refer to other religions (freedom to worship) which

I equally and strongly support and religious freedoms which our Christian founding fathers believed to be extremely key is partly what makes our country great.

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 9:01 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

The President makes the same point, that from the many, one America with unity in diversity evolves. Using Christianity (or any religion) to politically divide that unity chills our freedom " to worship whatever belief system or religion

we choose, " IMHO.

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97210

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation” and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others)

are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On

Behalf Of Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Dear Uncle Vern,

It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?

E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial

Best regards,

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve

our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

Mates - Strictly speaking this nation was founded by "Deists" not "Christians."I just copied this from the Deist entry in Wikipedia:Deism in the United States

Paine

In the United States,

Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Jefferson, lin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur , and Hugh on. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include Madison, possibly Hamilton, Ethan ,[44] and Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).A major contributor was Elihu Palmer (1764–1806), who wrote the "Bible" of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York".In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45][46] Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of lin, Jefferson, and Washington.[47][48][49] lin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on

me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.

My arguments perverted some others, particularly and Ralph; but

each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting 's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho'

it might be true, was not very useful."[50][51]

lin also wrote that "the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[52]

He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that "the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs

in the affairs of men."[53]For his part, Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers

with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian. In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible,

exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and

dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom, characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a "theistic rationalist", because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[54][55] Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia,

where he wrote, "I tremble" at the thought that "God is just," and he warned of eventual "supernatural influence" to abolish the scourge of slavery.[56][57]

M Kalb MS DCAuthor of Winning at Aging www.winningataging.com Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation” and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others)

are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ]

On Behalf Of Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Dear Uncle Vern,

It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?

E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial

Best regards,

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important

the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

So what is a "Diest" and what are "Deist ideals"Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office fax CC: dm.bones@...; oregondcs To: Vern@...From: drjohnkalb@...Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:14:40 -0700Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Mates - Strictly speaking this nation was founded by "Deists" not "Christians."I just copied this from the Deist entry in Wikipedia:Deism in the United States

Paine

In the United States,

Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Jefferson, lin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur , and Hugh on. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include Madison, possibly Hamilton, Ethan ,[44] and Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).A major contributor was Elihu Palmer (1764–1806), who wrote the "Bible" of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York".In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45][46] Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of lin, Jefferson, and Washington.[47][48][49] lin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on

me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.

My arguments perverted some others, particularly and Ralph; but

each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting 's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho'

it might be true, was not very useful."[50][51]

lin also wrote that "the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[52]

He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that "the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs

in the affairs of men."[53]For his part, Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers

with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian. In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible,

exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and

dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom, characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a "theistic rationalist", because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[54][55] Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia,

where he wrote, "I tremble" at the thought that "God is just," and he warned of eventual "supernatural influence" to abolish the scourge of slavery.[56][57]

M Kalb MS DCAuthor of Winning at Aging www.winningataging.com Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation” and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others)

are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ]

On Behalf Of Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Dear Uncle Vern,

It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?

E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial

Best regards,

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important

the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

That's always been the way I read/heard/understood that word 'God' when used inthese texts. We all seem to have a belief in some higher spirit or diety, 'god' is the generic term to indicate that presence. SunnySunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com CC: dm.bones@...; oregondcs To: Vern@...From: drjohnkalb@...Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:14:40 -0700Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Mates - Strictly speaking this nation was founded by "Deists" not "Christians."I just copied this from the Deist entry in Wikipedia:Deism in the United States

Paine

In the United States,

Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Jefferson, lin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur , and Hugh on. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include Madison, possibly Hamilton, Ethan ,[44] and Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).A major contributor was Elihu Palmer (1764–1806), who wrote the "Bible" of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York".In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45][46] Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of lin, Jefferson, and Washington.[47][48][49] lin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on

me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.

My arguments perverted some others, particularly and Ralph; but

each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting 's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho'

it might be true, was not very useful."[50][51]

lin also wrote that "the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[52]

He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that "the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs

in the affairs of men."[53]For his part, Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers

with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian. In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible,

exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and

dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom, characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a "theistic rationalist", because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[54][55] Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia,

where he wrote, "I tremble" at the thought that "God is just," and he warned of eventual "supernatural influence" to abolish the scourge of slavery.[56][57]

M Kalb MS DCAuthor of Winning at Aging www.winningataging.com Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation” and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others)

are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ]

On Behalf Of Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Dear Uncle Vern,

It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?

E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial

Best regards,

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important

the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

actually I think this discussion is healthy. As someone who was born in these United States, I think having a sense of history and looking back to where we came from is important. That does include those Deist-Masonic-Anglican-Unitarian founding fathers. What were they thinking? Kahn DC From: Kalb

Cc: Sears ; 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:14 AM Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Mates - Strictly speaking this nation was founded by "Deists" not "Christians."I just copied this from the Deist entry in Wikipedia:Deism in the United States

Paine

In the United States,

Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Jefferson, lin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur , and Hugh on. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include Madison, possibly Hamilton, Ethan ,[44] and Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and

Europe).A major contributor was Elihu Palmer (1764–1806), who wrote the "Bible" of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York".In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45][46] Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of lin, Jefferson, and Washington.[47][48][49] lin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on

me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.

My arguments perverted some others, particularly and Ralph; but

each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting 's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho'

it might be true, was not very useful."[50][51]

lin also wrote that "the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[52]

He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that "the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs

in the affairs of men."[53]For his part, Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers

with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian. In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible,

exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and

dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom, characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a "theistic rationalist", because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[54][55] Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia,

where he wrote, "I tremble" at the thought that "God is just," and he warned of eventual "supernatural influence" to abolish the scourge of slavery.[56][57]

M Kalb MS DCAuthor of Winning at Aging http://www.winningataging.com/ Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachhttp://www.drkalb.com/

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation†and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others)

are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern -----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ]

On Behalf Of Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Dear Uncle Vern,

It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?

E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial

Best regards,

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important

the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: http://www.drvernsaboe.com/

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

Charlie - I don't know much about it but what I have read does resonate with me. If you are interested, read the whole wiki article. I do think that freedom and freedom of religion (and/or no religion, perhaps) is a deist value.

M Kalb MS DCAuthor of Winning at Aging www.winningataging.com Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com

So what is a "Diest" and what are "Deist ideals"Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office fax CC: dm.bones@...; oregondcs To: Vern@...From: drjohnkalb@...Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:14:40 -0700Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Mates - Strictly speaking this nation was founded by "Deists" not "Christians."I just copied this from the Deist entry in Wikipedia:Deism in the United States

Paine

In the United States,

Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Jefferson, lin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur , and Hugh on. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include Madison, possibly Hamilton, Ethan ,[44] and Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).A major contributor was Elihu Palmer (1764–1806), who wrote the "Bible" of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York".In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45][46] Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of lin, Jefferson, and Washington.[47][48][49] lin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on

me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.

My arguments perverted some others, particularly and Ralph; but

each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting 's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho'

it might be true, was not very useful."[50][51]

lin also wrote that "the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[52]

He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that "the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs

in the affairs of men."[53]For his part, Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers

with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian. In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible,

exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and

dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom, characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a "theistic rationalist", because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[54][55] Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia,

where he wrote, "I tremble" at the thought that "God is just," and he warned of eventual "supernatural influence" to abolish the scourge of slavery.[56][57]

M Kalb MS DCAuthor of Winning at Aging www.winningataging.com Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation” and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others)

are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ]

On Behalf Of Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Dear Uncle Vern,

It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?

E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial

Best regards,

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important

the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

Again, I would like to point out the bigger picture here.. What ever name you call God it is the principle this country is based on God and the principle of what God stands for in moral and good values. God is being removed from our country in false statement that make people discuss all these issues I am hearing but diverting to what they are really doing behind the larger curtain. They removed God out of the schools under the laws of Discrimination, they removed God out of the courts by removing the bible and having people place their hand on a bible (only a symbol for telling the true under a higher value) by putting in military law in secret. This list goes on and on to what is going on this country. This video is about removing God not Christianity and it values. It's to teach our children it is OK to be homosexual,

because in the bible it says it is not. Our country values are going out with this idea that our country has the freedom to express we are many thing, but in reality it is to remove the values of God. That is why our country is falling apart. Look at the bigger picture, most people are not seeing this as this country is falling. We are like the frog slowly boiling as we discuss all these other issues looking all separately at the pot we are in. What color is it, how round is it, how deep is it, none of this will manner at some point. MY simple two cents.

Walt

Eagle Point

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.915 19th Ave SEAlbany, OR 97322phone: e-mail: vern@...website: www.drvernsaboe.com

From: Rome Hanning Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PMTo: ;Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

Walter,

A patient of mine, atheist, said she felt prejudice against her simply because she didn't believe in God. She made a comment, "If there were no God, would people still be good? I am." She is a highly intelligent, socially conscious person. A great mother, pays taxes, volunteers in many areas and expresses love everywhere she goes.

I don't think one has to use the name of any god or believe in god, to believe in the principles of our country. That's what's promised by our country's values. Liberty and Justice for all. Not just those who believe in a god of some sort. I choose to believe. I don't hold it against anyone else who doesn't.

I don't hold the bible as the authority to ALL Americans. Some Americans are Muslim, wiccan, Deist, Native American. The bible is not part of their cultural or religious belief system. That doesn't make them any less American. One can't hold the bible as law to all Americans, no matter how much one believes in it. Why? Because we have an inalienable right to freedom of religion. It's not the government's place to mandate religious belief.

If one doesn't agree with Stern, don't watch or listent to him. If one doesn't agree with homosexuality, don't enter into those relationships. We have the freedom to love whom we choose in America. It's not so in other countries.

Minga Guerrero DC

abowoman@...

Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

They were not.

And may God strike you down for saying so.

In a brotherly way, of course!

Smite. Smite. Smite.

Actually, the Diest argument has been pretty thoroughly debunked.

It sort of defines God as a distant being who formed the world and sent it off spinning on its own.

The Judeo-christian God that the founders believed in was a real time father who loves his children and is involved in their lives in a very complicated way.

He invented time so he gets to be everywhere and every when simultaneously.

Sort of like us being able to hold a videotape of a movie with the beginning, middle, and end in hand while the characters have to live out the tape as it goes.

DVDs are more complicated.

But I remember what my old Dad used to say [in discussions] like these:

He’d say, " What the h*ll are you doing in the bathroom day and night?

Why don't you get out of there and give someone else a chance? "

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:14:40 -0700

To: " Dr. Vern Saboe "

Cc: Sears , 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs >

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Mates - Strictly speaking this nation was founded by " Deists " not " Christians. "

I just copied this from the Deist entry in Wikipedia:

Deism in the United States

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:_Paine.jpg>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:_Paine.jpg>

Paine

In the United States <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States> , Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution> . American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States> , who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Jefferson, lin, Cornelius Harnett <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Harnett> , Gouverneur <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouverneur_> , and Hugh on <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_on> . Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.

Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include Madison <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Madison> , possibly Hamilton <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Hamilton> , Ethan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_> ,[44] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-43> and Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).

A major contributor was Elihu Palmer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elihu_Palmer> (1764–1806), who wrote the " Bible " of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the " Deistical Society of New York " .

In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-44> [46] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-45> Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of lin, Jefferson, and Washington <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Washington> .[47] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-46> [48] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-47> [49] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-48>

lin wrote in his autobiography, " Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist. My arguments perverted some others, particularly and Ralph; but each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting 's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho' it might be true, was not very useful. " [50] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-49> [51] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-50> lin also wrote that " the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[52] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-51> He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that " the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men. " [53] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-52>

For his part, Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers> with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism> . In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Morals_of_Jesus_of_Nazareth> , but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Ahlstrom> , characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a " theistic rationalist " <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_rationalism> , because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[54] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-53> [55] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-54> Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, where he wrote, " I tremble " at the thought that " God is just, " and he warned of eventual " supernatural influence " to abolish the scourge of slavery.[56] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-55> [57] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-56>

M Kalb MS DC

Author of Winning at Aging

www.winningataging.com <http://www.winningataging.com>

Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach

www.DrKalb.com <http://www.DrKalb.com>

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation” and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others) are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/>

From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Dear Uncle Vern,

It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?

E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial

Best regards,

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/>

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

My dad's Christian attitude was a bit tempered. He would

always say, " In God we trust. All others must pay cash. "

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolvingDaily.com

> Charlie - I don't know much about it but what I have read

> does resonate with me. If you are interested, read the

> whole wiki article. I do think that freedom and freedom of

> religion (and/or no religupn

, perhaps) is a deist value.

>

> M Kalb MS DC

> Author of Winning at Aging

> www.winningataging.com

> Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach

> www.DrKalb.com

>

>

>

>

> >

> > So what is a " Diest " and what are " Deist ideals "

> >

> > Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC

> > 155 NW 1st Ave

> > Day, Or. 97845

> > office

> > fax

> >

> > CC: dm.bones@...; oregondcs

> > To: Vern@...

> > From: drjohnkalb@...

> > Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:14:40 -0700

> > Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk

> > for the President

> >

> >

> > Mates - Strictly speaking this nation was founded by

> > " Deists " not " Christians. " I just copied this from the

> > Deist entry in Wikipedia: Deism in the United States

> >

> >

> >

> > Paine

> > In the United States, Enlightenment philosophy (which

> itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a

> major role in creating the principle of religious freedom,

> expressed in Jefferson's letters and included in

> the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

> American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution,

> who were especially noted for being influenced by such

> philosophy include Jefferson, lin,

> Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur , and Hugh on.

> > Their political speeches show distinct deistic

> influence. Other notable Founding Fathers may have been

> more directly deist. These include Madison, possibly

> Hamilton, Ethan ,[44] and Paine (who

> published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to

> > popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe). A major

> contributor was Elihu Palmer

(1764–1806), who wrote the

> " Bible " of American deism in his Principles of Nature

> (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the

> > " Deistical Society of New York " . In the United States

> there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers

> were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45][46]

> Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of

> lin, Jefferson, and

> > Washington.[47][48][49] lin wrote in his

> autobiography, " Some books against Deism fell into my

> hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons

> preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they

> wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was

> inteed by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which

> were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger

> than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough

> Deist. My arguments perverted some others, particularly

> and Ralph; but each of them having afterwards

> wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and

> recollecting 's conduct towards me (who was another

> freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read,

> which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect

> that this doctrine, tho' it might be true, was not very

> useful. " [50][51] lin also wrote that " the Deity

> sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and

> sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been

> produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of

> Man.[52] He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention

> , that " the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I

> see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of

> > men. " [53] For his part, Jefferson is perhaps one

> of the Founding Fathers with the most outspoken of Deist

> tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself

> a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian. In

> particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he

> titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, but which

> subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson

> Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away

> all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Christ

> story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney

> Ahlstrom, characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a

> " theistic rationalist " , because Jefferson believed in

> God's continuing activity in human affairs.[54][55] Frazer

> cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, where he

> wrote, " I tremble " at the thought that " God is just, " and

> he warned of eventual " supernatural influence " to abolish

> > the scourge of slavery.[56][57] M Kalb MS DC

> > Author of Winning at Aging

> > www.winningataging.com

> > Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach

> > www.DrKalb.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > The point is that this nation was founded on

> Christianity we are indeed a “Christian

nation†and as a

> free people all Americans (unlike many others) are free to

> worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I

> am simply pointing out a historical truth about the

> wonderful country we have the privilege of living

in…

> > blessings, Vern

> >

> > -----

> > Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

> > 915 19th Ave SE

> > Albany, OR 97322

> > phone:

> > e-mail: vern@...

> > website: www.drvernsaboe.com

> >

> >

> > From: oregondcs

> [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of

> > Sears Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

> > To: Dr. Vern Saboe

> > Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

> > Subject: Re: FW...OT....A Walk

> > for the President

> >

> >

> > Dear Uncle Vern,

> >

> > It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and

> spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the

> sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all

> > leaves of the same tree?

> >

> > E Pluribus Unum

>

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unu\

m-becomes-controversial

> >

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Sears, DC, IAYT

> >

> > 1218 NW 21st Ave

> >

> > Portland, Oregon 97209

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent

> to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and

> after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list

> serve our nation’s future is just too important the

> > experiment is over….just my opinion…

> >

> > -----

> > Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC.15 19th Ave SE

> > Albany, OR 97322

> > phone:

> > e-mail: vern@...

> > website: www.drvernsaboe.com

> >

> >

> > From: Rome Hanning

> > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

> > To: ;

> > Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

> >

> >

> > .

> >

> > A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

> >

> > http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

A Christian and an athiest were having lunch. The athiest

complained, " It's not fair. You Christians have all these

holidays on the calendar. How come us athiests don't have a

holiday? " The Christian replied, " You do. April 1st. "

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolvingDaily.com

> Walter,

> A patient of mine, atheist, said she felt prejudice

> against her simply because she didn't believe in God. She

> made a comment, " If there were no God, would people still

> be good? I am. " She is a highly intelligent, socially

> conscious person. A great mother, pays taxes, volunteers

> in many areas and expresses love everywhere she goes.

>

> I don't think one has to use the name of any god or

> believe in god, to believe in the principles of our

> country. That's what's promised by our country's values.

> Liberty and Justice for all. Not just those who believe in

> a god of some sort. I choose to believe. I don't hold it

> against anyone else who doesn't.

>

> I don't hold the bible as the authority to ALL Americans.

> Some Americans are Muslim, wiccan, Deist, Native American.

> The bible is not part of their cultural or religious

> belief system. That doesn't make them any less American.

> One can't hold the bible as law to all Americans, no

> matter how much one believes in it. Why? Because we have

> an inalienable right to freedom of religion. It's not the

> government's place to mandate religious belief.

>

> If one doesn't agree with Stern, don't watch or

> listent to him. If one doesn't agree with homosexuality,

> don't enter into those relationships. We have the freedom

> to love whom we choose in America. It's not so in other

> countries. Minga Guerrero DC

> abowoman@...

>

>

>

>

> Fw: A Walk for the President

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> A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

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> good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

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> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

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[Guest guest]

Love it!!!! Vern Saboe....

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com

A Christian and an athiest were having lunch. The athiest

complained, " It's not fair. You Christians have all these

holidays on the calendar. How come us athiests don't have a

holiday? " The Christian replied, " You do. April 1st. "

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolvingDaily.com

> Walter,

> A patient of mine, atheist, said she felt prejudice

> against her simply because she didn't believe in God. She

> made a comment, " If there were no God, would people still

> be good? I am. " She is a highly intelligent, socially

> conscious person. A great mother, pays taxes, volunteers

> in many areas and expresses love everywhere she goes.

>

> I don't think one has to use the name of any god or

> believe in god, to believe in the principles of our

> country. That's what's promised by our country's values.

> Liberty and Justice for all. Not just those who believe in

> a god of some sort. I choose to believe. I don't hold it

> against anyone else who doesn't.

>

> I don't hold the bible as the authority to ALL Americans.

> Some Americans are Muslim, wiccan, Deist, Native American.

> The bible is not part of their cultural or religious

> belief system. That doesn't make them any less American.

> One can't hold the bible as law to all Americans, no

> matter how much one believes in it. Why? Because we have

> an inalienable right to freedom of religion. It's not the

> government's place to mandate religious belief.

>

> If one doesn't agree with Stern, don't watch or

> listent to him. If one doesn't agree with homosexuality,

> don't enter into those relationships. We have the freedom

> to love whom we choose in America. It's not so in other

> countries. Minga Guerrero DC

> abowoman@...

>

>

>

>

> Fw: A Walk for the President

>

>

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>

> A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

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> good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

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> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

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[Guest guest]

- Can you give some reference for your debunking the deist argument?

M Kalb MS DCAuthor of Winning at Aging www.winningataging.com Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com

Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

They were not.

And may God strike you down for saying so.

In a brotherly way, of course!

Smite. Smite. Smite.

Actually, the Diest argument has been pretty thoroughly debunked.

It sort of defines God as a distant being who formed the world and sent it off spinning on its own.

The Judeo-christian God that the founders believed in was a real time father who loves his children and is involved in their lives in a very complicated way.

He invented time so he gets to be everywhere and every when simultaneously.

Sort of like us being able to hold a videotape of a movie with the beginning, middle, and end in hand while the characters have to live out the tape as it goes.

DVDs are more complicated.

But I remember what my old Dad used to say [in discussions] like these:

He’d say, "What the h*ll are you doing in the bathroom day and night?

Why don't you get out of there and give someone else a chance?"

<image.jpg>

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

<image.jpg>

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:14:40 -0700

To: "Dr. Vern Saboe"

Cc: Sears , 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs >

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Mates - Strictly speaking this nation was founded by "Deists" not "Christians."

I just copied this from the Deist entry in Wikipedia:

Deism in the United States

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:_Paine.jpg>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:_Paine.jpg>

Paine

In the United States <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States> , Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution> . American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States> , who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Jefferson, lin, Cornelius Harnett <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Harnett> , Gouverneur <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouverneur_> , and Hugh on <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_on> . Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.

Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include Madison <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Madison> , possibly Hamilton <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Hamilton> , Ethan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_> ,[44] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-43> and Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).

A major contributor was Elihu Palmer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elihu_Palmer> (1764–1806), who wrote the "Bible" of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York".

In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-44> [46] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-45> Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of lin, Jefferson, and Washington <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Washington> .[47] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-46> [48] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-47> [49] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-48>

lin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist. My arguments perverted some others, particularly and Ralph; but each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting 's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho' it might be true, was not very useful."[50] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-49> [51] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-50> lin also wrote that "the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[52] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-51> He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that "the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men."[53] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-52>

For his part, Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers> with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism> . In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Morals_of_Jesus_of_Nazareth> , but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Ahlstrom> , characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a "theistic rationalist" <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_rationalism> , because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[54] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-53> [55] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-54> Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, where he wrote, "I tremble" at the thought that "God is just," and he warned of eventual "supernatural influence" to abolish the scourge of slavery.[56] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-55> [57] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-56>

M Kalb MS DC

Author of Winning at Aging

www.winningataging.com <http://www.winningataging.com>

Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach

www.DrKalb.com <http://www.DrKalb.com>

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation” and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others) are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/>

From: oregondcs [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Dear Uncle Vern,

It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?

E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial

Best regards,

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/>

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

Ok, you saw my serious side, so now it is my turn

Walt

Eagle Point

Subject: An Atheist in the Woods...> > An atheist was walking through the woods. > 'What majestic trees'! > 'What powerful rivers'! > 'What beautiful animals'! > He said to himself.> > As he was walking alongside the river, he heard a> rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to> look. He saw a 7-foot grizzly bear charge towards> him. > > He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked> over his shoulder & saw that the bear was closing in> on him. > > He looked over his shoulder again, & the bear was> even closer. He tripped & fell on the ground. He> rolled over to pick himself up but saw

that the bear> was right on top of him, reaching for him with his> left paw & raising his right paw to strike him. > > At that instant the Atheist cried out, 'Oh my God!' > > Time Stopped. > The bear froze. > The forest was silent.> > As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came> out of the sky. 'You deny my existence for all> these years, teach others I don't exist and even> credit creation to cosmic accident.' 'Do you expect> me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to> count you as a believer'? > The atheist looked directly into the light, 'It> would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask you to> treat me as a Christian now, but perhaps you could> make the BEAR a Christian'?> >

'Very Well,' said the voice. > > The light went out. The sounds of the forest> resumed. And the bear dropped his right paw, brought> both paws together, bowed his head & spoke: > > 'Lord bless this food, which I am about to receive> from thy bounty through Christ our Lord, Amen.' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to> me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after> viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our>

nation’s future is just tooimportant the experiment is> over….just myopinion…> > > > > > -----> Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.> 915 19th Ave SE> Albany, OR 97322> phone: > e-mail: vern@...> website: wverizon.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM> To: ;> Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President> > > > > > > > > A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.> > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------All posts must adhere to OregonDCs rules located on homepage at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oregondcs/Tell a colleague about OregonDCs! (must be licensed

Oregon DC)

[Guest guest]

Yesiree my critical thinking friend.

In all fairness, the largest gatherings of Christian quotes from and about our founders will be found on friendly websites so they need to be vetted.

And we must bear in mind that the Salem witch atrocities and others were aberrations just like scaring patients into 180 visit treatment plans on fear of death is not chiropractic. (I never go over 150 visits with my scare patients plan.)

One of my favorite speakers and writers is Rabbi Lapin (probably because of his British accent being from S. Africa).

Lapin (born January 1, 1947) is an American Orthodox rabbi, author, public speaker, and heads the American Alliance of Jews and Christians.

Two of his quotes:

" America is what she is because her founders chose to follow the Word of God. America is as successful as she is because of the Christian system of values our founders implanted in this land. " (Rabbi Lapin. America's Real War . p. 73)

" That America was founded as a Christian nation is beyond debate…we were founded as a Christian nation that took Judeo-Christian principles so much for granted that the founding fathers saw little reasons to state the obvious. " (Lapin. Ibid. p. 93)

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Other stuff listed on a website:

" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion…are undermining the solid morals, the best security for the duration of free government. " ( Carroll. Signer of the Declaration of Independence.)

" Today's widespread relegation of religion to merely something people do only in the privacy of their homes or churches would have been unimaginable to the founders of the republic – even those who personally repudiated orthodox Christian faith. " (p. 121. Colson. Ibid.)

" The Founders believed that pluralism survived only within the concept of religious liberty espoused by American Christianity. " (p. 33)

" My only hope of salvation is in the infinite transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of his Son upon the Cross. Nothing but his blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come quickly! " ( Rush, Signer of the Declaration, The Autobiography of Rush – W. Corner, editor. 1948.)

" Our Founders never envisioned that the First Amendment would become a weapon to excise Christian or traditional religious expressions from the public arena. " ( Barton. Original Intent. p. 150)

" An early House Judiciary Committee affirmed the Founders' lack of pluralistic intent when it declared: ' Christianity…was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.' " (B. F. . The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the Unites States. Philadelphia: Childs. 1864.)

" The Founders understood that Biblical values formed the basis of the republic and that the republic would be destroyed if the people's knowledge of those values should ever be lost. " (Barton. Ibid. p. 337)

" There must be religion. When that ligament is torn, society is disjointed and its members perish. The nation is exposed to foreign violence and domestic convulsion. " (Gouverneur . Signer of the Constitution. Sept. 4, 1816.)

" There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost and religious liberty preserved entire. " ( Witherspoon. May 17, 1776 at Princeton.)

" I have been alternately called an aristocrat and a democrat. I am now neither. I am a Christocrat…He alone who created and redeemed man is qualified to govern him. " ( Rush. Signer of the Declaration of Independence; served in the Presidential administrations of , Jefferson, and Madison.)

" At the time of the adoption of the Constitution…the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the State so far as such encouragement was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience and the freedom of religious worship. " (Supreme Court Justice ph Story. 2 Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States 593.)

" It is not the American tradition for Christians to stay out of politics. Reverend Witherspoon was teacher of Presidents, member of the Continental Congress, and signer of the Declaration of Independence. A majority of the delegates to the Constitutional Convention were professing Christians, many had theological training, and at least one had been a licensed preacher. At least 44 of the delegates to the various state ratifying conventions were ordained ministers. " ( Eidsmoe. Ibid. p. 408.)

" The highest glory of the American Revolution was this, it connected in one indissoluble bond, principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. " ( Quincy . July 4, 1821)

" Whereas we all came into these parts of America with one and the same end and aim, namely, to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ. " (The New England Confederation. May 19, 1643.)

" Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. " (President . Military Address – October 11, 1798.)

" We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God. " ( Madison.)

" Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interests of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. " ( Jay. Supreme Court Chief Justice of the United States. Oct. 12, 1816.)

" Whatever makes men good Christians, makes them good citizens. " ( Webster.)

" 'The Christian Constitutional Society,' its object to be first: the support of the Christian religion; second: the support of the United States. " " ( Hamilton. 1802. Signer and ratifier of the Constitution.)

" The name of American…with slight shades of difference, you have same religion, manners, habits and political principles…Of all the dispositions and habits which led to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. " ( Washington. Sept. 19, 1796. Washington's Farewell Address to the nation.)

" Let my neighbor once persuade himself that there is no God, and he will soon pick my pocket, and break not only my leg but my neck. If there be no God, there is no law, no future account; government then is ordinance of man only, and we cannot be subject to conscience sake. " ( Linn . Chaplain of the House of Representatives in 1789.)

" Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. " ( Jay. Oct. 12, 1816. First Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court.)

" Through most of our history as a nation, Christianity was the dominant religion. At independence, the Founding Fathers declared a national day of prayer and thanksgiving – a holiday we still celebrate. " (Chuck Colson. Dance of Deception. p. 131)

" We have been told over and over that the Founding Fathers were Deists and skeptics. Those who make this claim seldom produce proof for the assertion. Frequently they cite no sources at all. " ( Amos. The Christian and American Law. p. 84)

" Two political-science professors, Lutz and Hyneman, conducted a detailed study of political writings from the founding period of American history, 1760-1805…they studied these closely for the purpose of identifying quotations…where (the framers) derived their ideas…34% was the Bible. " ( Eidsmoe. The Christian and American Law. p. 84)

" The late Dr. M. E. Bradford of the University of Dallas undertook a detailed study of the 55 delegates to the Convention and concluded that at most only three or four of them were Deists. The vast majority were professing Christians and actively affiliated with Christian churches. " ( Eidsmoe. The Christian and American Law. p. 85)

" I believe no one can read the history of our country without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the Saviour have from the beginning been our guiding geniuses…the same objective is present; a Christian land governed by Christian perspectives. " (Earl Warren. Former Governor of California and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Time magazine. Feb. 15, 1954. p. 49.)

" Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith… " (The Mayflower Compact)

" Of the 56 men who signed the nation's birth certificate, definitely 50, maybe 52, were Christians. " (Dr. M. E. Bradford. A Worthy Company. University of Dallas.)

" The Constitution of the United States, declared the skeptical historian H.G. Wells, is 'indubitably Christian.' " (p. 71)

" If the founders of the new nation intended this to be a secular state, then why did they, when governing, perform so many religious acts which were officially part of the government? (p. 73)

" Religion, morality and knowledge being essential to good government and the happiness of mankind… " (Northwest Ordinance of 1787) (p. 73)

" The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. " ( Quincy . Quoted in Verna M. Hall's The Christian History of the Constitution of the United States. 1966.)

" The Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth and laid the corner stone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity. " ( Quincy . An Oration Delivered Before the Inhabitants of th4e Town of Newburyport at their Request on the 61st Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. 1837. p. 5-6.)

" America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scripture. " (President Woodrow )

" The foundations of our society and of our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible, that it would be difficult to support them, if faith in these teachings should cease to be practically universal in this country. " (President Calvin Coolidge)

" Our Founding Fathers established our fledgling nation upon a central belief in a Supreme Power, and they based the government of this republic upon Judeo-Christian principles. Today, Christians are being shocked (rightfully so) by court decisions, legislative actions, and public policies which are brazenly antagonistic to moral (and Biblical) values. " (Vernon McLellan. The Great American Arena! p. 29)

Here is an article from a Jewish scholar who produces some great lectures and hosts on radio:

http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelmedved/2007/10/03/the_founders_intended_a_christian,_not_secular,_society/page/full/

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 22:42:03 -0700

To: Abrahamson

Cc: " Dr. Vern Saboe " , 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs >

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

- Can you give some reference for your debunking the deist argument?

M Kalb MS DC

Author of Winning at Aging

www.winningataging.com <http://www.winningataging.com>

Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach

www.DrKalb.com <http://www.DrKalb.com>

Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

They were not.

And may God strike you down for saying so.

In a brotherly way, of course!

Smite. Smite. Smite.

Actually, the Diest argument has been pretty thoroughly debunked.

It sort of defines God as a distant being who formed the world and sent it off spinning on its own.

The Judeo-christian God that the founders believed in was a real time father who loves his children and is involved in their lives in a very complicated way.

He invented time so he gets to be everywhere and every when simultaneously.

Sort of like us being able to hold a videotape of a movie with the beginning, middle, and end in hand while the characters have to live out the tape as it goes.

DVDs are more complicated.

But I remember what my old Dad used to say [in discussions] like these:

He’d say, " What the h*ll are you doing in the bathroom day and night?

Why don't you get out of there and give someone else a chance? "

<image.jpg>

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com <http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com/>

<image.jpg>

>

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:14:40 -0700

To: " Dr. Vern Saboe " >

Cc: Sears >, 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs <x-msg://177/oregondcs > >

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Mates - Strictly speaking this nation was founded by " Deists " not " Christians. "

I just copied this from the Deist entry in Wikipedia:

Deism in the United States

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:_Paine.jpg>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:_Paine.jpg>

Paine

In the United States <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States> , Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution> . American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States> , who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Jefferson, lin, Cornelius Harnett <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Harnett> , Gouverneur <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouverneur_> , and Hugh on <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_on> . Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.

Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include Madison <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Madison> , possibly Hamilton <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Hamilton> , Ethan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_> ,[44] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-43> and Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).

A major contributor was Elihu Palmer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elihu_Palmer> (1764–1806), who wrote the " Bible " of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the " Deistical Society of New York " .

In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-44> [46] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-45> Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of lin, Jefferson, and Washington <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Washington> .[47] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-46> [48] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-47> [49] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-48>

lin wrote in his autobiography, " Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist. My arguments perverted some others, particularly and Ralph; but each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting 's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho' it might be true, was not very useful. " [50] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-49> [51] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-50> lin also wrote that " the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[52] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-51> He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that " the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men. " [53] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-52>

For his part, Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers> with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism> . In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Morals_of_Jesus_of_Nazareth> , but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Ahlstrom> , characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a " theistic rationalist " <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_rationalism> , because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[54] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-53> [55] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-54> Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, where he wrote, " I tremble " at the thought that " God is just, " and he warned of eventual " supernatural influence " to abolish the scourge of slavery.[56] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-55> [57] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-56>

M Kalb MS DC

Author of Winning at Aging

www.winningataging.com <http://www.winningataging.com> <http://www.winningataging.com <http://www.winningataging.com/> >

Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach

www.DrKalb.com <http://www.DrKalb.com> <http://www.DrKalb.com <http://www.DrKalb.com/> >

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation” and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others) are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com <http://www.drvernsaboe.com> <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/>

From: oregondcs <x-msg://177/oregondcs > [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Dear Uncle Vern,

It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?

E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial

Best regards,

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com <http://www.drvernsaboe.com> <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/>

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

Many of the world empires had official state religions at the time Anglican, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox Christian and Islam. A nation without an official religion may have seemed a radical step at that time.

Kahn DC Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire

To: Kalb ; Sears ; 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 2:27 PMSubject: Re: FW:

OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Yesiree my critical thinking friend.In all fairness, the largest gatherings of Christian quotes from and about our founders will be found on friendly websites so they need to be vetted.And we must bear in mind that the Salem witch atrocities and others were aberrations just like scaring patients into 180 visit treatment plans on fear of death is not chiropractic. (I never go over 150 visits with my scare patients plan.)One of my favorite speakers and writers is Rabbi Lapin (probably because of his British accent being from S. Africa). Lapin (born January 1, 1947) is an American Orthodox rabbi, author, public speaker, and heads the American Alliance of Jews and Christians. Two of his quotes:"America is what she is because her founders chose to follow the Word of God. America

is as successful as she is because of the Christian system of values our founders implanted in this land." (Rabbi Lapin. America's Real War . p. 73)"That America was founded as a Christian nation is beyond debate…we were founded as a Christian nation that took Judeo-Christian principles so much for granted that the founding fathers saw little reasons to state the obvious." (Lapin. Ibid. p. 93)XxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxOther stuff listed on a website:"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion…are undermining the solid morals, the best security for the duration of free government." ( Carroll. Signer of the Declaration of Independence.) "Today's widespread relegation of religion to merely something people

do only in the privacy of their homes or churches would have been unimaginable to the founders of the republic – even those who personally repudiated orthodox Christian faith." (p. 121. Colson. Ibid.) "The Founders believed that pluralism survived only within the concept of religious liberty espoused by American Christianity." (p. 33) "My only hope of salvation is in the infinite transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of his Son upon the Cross. Nothing but his blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come quickly!" ( Rush, Signer of the Declaration, The Autobiography of Rush – W. Corner, editor. 1948.) "Our Founders never envisioned that the First Amendment would become a weapon to excise Christian or traditional religious

expressions from the public arena." ( Barton. Original Intent. p. 150) "An early House Judiciary Committee affirmed the Founders' lack of pluralistic intent when it declared: ' Christianity…was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.'" (B. F. . The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the Unites States. Philadelphia: Childs. 1864.) "The Founders understood that Biblical values formed the basis of the republic and that the republic would be destroyed if the people's knowledge of those values should ever be lost." (Barton. Ibid. p. 337) "There must be religion. When that ligament is torn, society is disjointed and its members perish. The nation is exposed to foreign violence and domestic convulsion."

(Gouverneur . Signer of the Constitution. Sept. 4, 1816.) "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost and religious liberty preserved entire." ( Witherspoon. May 17, 1776 at Princeton.) "I have been alternately called an aristocrat and a democrat. I am now neither. I am a Christocrat…He alone who created and redeemed man is qualified to govern him." ( Rush. Signer of the Declaration of Independence; served in the Presidential administrations of , Jefferson, and Madison.) "At the time of the adoption of the Constitution…the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the State so far as such encouragement

was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience and the freedom of religious worship." (Supreme Court Justice ph Story. 2 Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States 593.) "It is not the American tradition for Christians to stay out of politics. Reverend Witherspoon was teacher of Presidents, member of the Continental Congress, and signer of the Declaration of Independence. A majority of the delegates to the Constitutional Convention were professing Christians, many had theological training, and at least one had been a licensed preacher. At least 44 of the delegates to the various state ratifying conventions were ordained ministers." ( Eidsmoe. Ibid. p. 408.) "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this, it connected in one indissoluble bond,

principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." ( Quincy . July 4, 1821) "Whereas we all came into these parts of America with one and the same end and aim, namely, to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ." (The New England Confederation. May 19, 1643.) "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." (President . Military Address – October 11, 1798.) "We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God." ( Madison.) "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the

privilege and interests of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." ( Jay. Supreme Court Chief Justice of the United States. Oct. 12, 1816.) "Whatever makes men good Christians, makes them good citizens." ( Webster.) "'The Christian Constitutional Society,' its object to be first: the support of the Christian religion; second: the support of the United States.""( Hamilton. 1802. Signer and ratifier of the Constitution.) "The name of American…with slight shades of difference, you have same religion, manners, habits and political principles…Of all the dispositions and habits which led to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports." ( Washington. Sept. 19, 1796. Washington's Farewell Address to the nation.) "Let my neighbor once persuade himself that there is

no God, and he will soon pick my pocket, and break not only my leg but my neck. If there be no God, there is no law, no future account; government then is ordinance of man only, and we cannot be subject to conscience sake." ( Linn . Chaplain of the House of Representatives in 1789.) "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." ( Jay. Oct. 12, 1816. First Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court.) "Through most of our history as a nation, Christianity was the dominant religion. At independence, the Founding Fathers declared a national day of prayer and thanksgiving – a holiday we still celebrate." (Chuck Colson. Dance of Deception. p. 131) "We have

been told over and over that the Founding Fathers were Deists and skeptics. Those who make this claim seldom produce proof for the assertion. Frequently they cite no sources at all." ( Amos. The Christian and American Law. p. 84) "Two political-science professors, Lutz and Hyneman, conducted a detailed study of political writings from the founding period of American history, 1760-1805…they studied these closely for the purpose of identifying quotations…where (the framers) derived their ideas…34% was the Bible." ( Eidsmoe. The Christian and American Law. p. 84) "The late Dr. M. E. Bradford of the University of Dallas undertook a detailed study of the 55 delegates to the Convention and concluded that at most only three or four

of them were Deists. The vast majority were professing Christians and actively affiliated with Christian churches." ( Eidsmoe. The Christian and American Law. p. 85) "I believe no one can read the history of our country without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the Saviour have from the beginning been our guiding geniuses…the same objective is present; a Christian land governed by Christian perspectives." (Earl Warren. Former Governor of California and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Time magazine. Feb. 15, 1954. p. 49.) "Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith…" (The Mayflower Compact) "Of the 56 men who signed the nation's birth certificate, definitely 50, maybe 52, were Christians." (Dr. M. E. Bradford. A Worthy

Company. University of Dallas.) "The Constitution of the United States, declared the skeptical historian H.G. Wells, is 'indubitably Christian.'" (p. 71) "If the founders of the new nation intended this to be a secular state, then why did they, when governing, perform so many religious acts which were officially part of the government? (p. 73) "Religion, morality and knowledge being essential to good government and the happiness of mankind…" (Northwest Ordinance of 1787) (p. 73) "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." ( Quincy . Quoted in Verna M. Hall's The Christian History of the Constitution of the United States. 1966.) "The Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact

on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth and laid the corner stone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity." ( Quincy . An Oration Delivered Before the Inhabitants of th4e Town of Newburyport at their Request on the 61st Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. 1837. p. 5-6.) "America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scripture." (President Woodrow ) "The foundations of our society and of our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible, that it would be difficult to support them, if faith in these teachings should cease to be practically universal in this country." (President Calvin Coolidge) "Our

Founding Fathers established our fledgling nation upon a central belief in a Supreme Power, and they based the government of this republic upon Judeo-Christian principles. Today, Christians are being shocked (rightfully so) by court decisions, legislative actions, and public policies which are brazenly antagonistic to moral (and Biblical) values." (Vernon McLellan. The Great American Arena! p. 29)Here is an article from a Jewish scholar who produces some great lectures and hosts on radio:http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelmedved/2007/10/03/the_founders_intended_a_christian,_not_secular,_society/page/full/-- E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com/

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 22:42:03 -0700To: Abrahamson , Sears , 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs >Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the

President - Can you give some reference for your debunking the deist argument? M Kalb MS DCAuthor of Winning at Aging www.winningataging.com <http://www.winningataging.com/> Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com <http://www.drkalb.com/>

Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President They were not.And may God strike you down for saying so.In a brotherly way, of course!Smite. Smite. Smite.Actually, the Diest argument has been pretty thoroughly debunked. It sort of defines God as a distant being who formed the world and sent it off spinning on its own.The Judeo-christian God that the founders believed in was a real time father who loves his children and is involved in their lives in a very complicated way.He invented time so he gets to be everywhere and every when simultaneously. Sort of like us being able to hold a videotape of a movie with the beginning, middle, and end in hand while the characters have to live out the tape as

it goes. DVDs are more complicated.But I remember what my old Dad used to say [in discussions] like these:He’d say, "What the h*ll are you doing in the bathroom day and night? Why don't you get out of there and give someone else a chance?"<image.jpg>-- E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com/ <http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com/> <image.jpg>

>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:14:40 -0700To: "Dr. Vern Saboe" >Cc: Sears >, 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs <x-msg://177/oregondcs > >Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President Mates - Strictly speaking this nation was founded by "Deists" not "Christians."I just copied this from the Deist entry in Wikipedia:Deism in the United States<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:_Paine.jpg>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:_Paine.jpg> PaineIn the United States <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States> , Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution> . American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States> , who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Jefferson, lin, Cornelius Harnett <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Harnett> , Gouverneur <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouverneur_> , and Hugh on <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_on> . Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include Madison <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Madison> , possibly Hamilton <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Hamilton> , Ethan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_> ,[44] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-43> and Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).A major contributor was Elihu Palmer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elihu_Palmer> (1764–1806), who wrote the "Bible" of

American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York".In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-44> [46] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-45> Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of lin, Jefferson, and Washington <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Washington> .[47] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-46> [48] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-47> [49] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-48> lin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist. My arguments perverted some others, particularly and Ralph; but each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting 's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho' it might be true, was not very useful."[50] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-49> [51] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-50> lin also wrote that "the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[52] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-51> He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that "the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men."[53] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-52> For his part, Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers> with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism> . In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled

The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Morals_of_Jesus_of_Nazareth> , but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Ahlstrom> , characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a "theistic rationalist" <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_rationalism> , because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[54]

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-53> [55] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-54> Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, where he wrote, "I tremble" at the thought that "God is just," and he warned of eventual "supernatural influence" to abolish the scourge of slavery.[56] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-55> [57] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-56> M Kalb MS DCAuthor of Winning at Aging www.winningataging.com <http://www.winningataging.com/> <http://www.winningataging.com/ <http://www.winningataging.com/> > Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com <http://www.drkalb.com/> <http://www.drkalb.com/ <http://www.DrKalb.com/> >

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation†and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others) are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern -----Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.915 19th Ave SEAlbany, OR 97322phone: e-mail: vern@... website: www.drvernsaboe.com <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/> <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/> From: oregondcs <x-msg://177/oregondcs > [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of SearsSent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AMTo: Dr. Vern SaboeCc: 'oregondcs DC'S'Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President Dear Uncle Vern, It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree? E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial Best regards, Sears, DC, IAYT1218 NW 21st AvePortland, Oregon 97209 Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion… -----Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.915 19th Ave SEAlbany, OR 97322phone: e-mail: vern@... website: www.drvernsaboe.com <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/> <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/> From: Rome Hanning Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PMTo: ;Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President.A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end. http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

You will waste your time bruin over this.

It is bearly worth considering.

Although one would want to avoid being eaten by a Bostonian bear if they don’t make the playoffs.

Had to be said.

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

Reply-To: Kahn

Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:00:06 -0700 (PDT)

To: Walter Wiese , " oregondcs " <oregondcs >

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Hmmm maybe the deeper question is " would I rather be eaten by a Pagan bear or a Christian bear? " Kahn DC Eugene

To: oregondcs

Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:34 PM

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President [1 Attachment]

Ok, you saw my serious side, so now it is my turn

Walt

Eagle Point

Subject: An Atheist in the Woods...

>

> An atheist was walking through the woods.

> 'What majestic trees'!

> 'What powerful rivers'!

> 'What beautiful animals'!

> He said to himself.

>

> As he was walking alongside the river, he heard a

> rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to

> look. He saw a 7-foot grizzly bear charge towards

> him.

>

> He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked

> over his shoulder & saw that the bear was closing in

> on him.

>

> He looked over his shoulder again, & the bear was

> even closer. He tripped & fell on the ground. He

> rolled over to pick himself up but saw that the bear

> was right on top of him, reaching for him with his

> left paw & raising his right paw to strike him.

>

> At that instant the Atheist cried out, 'Oh my God!'

>

> Time Stopped.

> The bear froze.

> The forest was silent.

>

> As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came

> out of the sky. 'You deny my existence for all

> these years, teach others I don't exist and even

> credit creation to cosmic accident.' 'Do you expect

> me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to

> count you as a believer'?

> The atheist looked directly into the light, 'It

> would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask you to

> treat me as a Christian now, but perhaps you could

> make the BEAR a Christian'?

>

> 'Very Well,' said the voice.

>

> The light went out. The sounds of the forest

> resumed. And the bear dropped his right paw, brought

> both paws together, bowed his head & spoke:

>

> 'Lord bless this food, which I am about to receive

> from thy bounty through Christ our Lord, Amen.'

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to> me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after> viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our> nation’s future is just tooimportant the experiment is> overâ€&brkbar;.just myopinionâ€&brkbar;> > > > > > -----> Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.> 915 19th Ave SE> Albany, OR 97322> phone: > e-mail: http://us.mc1132.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vern@...> website: wverizon.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM> To: ;> Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President> > > > > > > > > A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.> > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------All posts must adhere to OregonDCs rules located on homepage at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oregondcs/Tell a colleague about OregonDCs! (must be licensed Oregon DC)

[Guest guest]

Thanks ! I still think they are deists. I am leaving on vacation but I will try to locate some primary references, more than just someone's opinion!

M Kalb MS DCAuthor of Winning at Aging www.winningataging.com Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coachwww.DrKalb.com

Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Yesiree my critical thinking friend.

In all fairness, the largest gatherings of Christian quotes from and about our founders will be found on friendly websites so they need to be vetted.

And we must bear in mind that the Salem witch atrocities and others were aberrations just like scaring patients into 180 visit treatment plans on fear of death is not chiropractic. (I never go over 150 visits with my scare patients plan.)

One of my favorite speakers and writers is Rabbi Lapin (probably because of his British accent being from S. Africa).

Lapin (born January 1, 1947) is an American Orthodox rabbi, author, public speaker, and heads the American Alliance of Jews and Christians.

Two of his quotes:

"America is what she is because her founders chose to follow the Word of God. America is as successful as she is because of the Christian system of values our founders implanted in this land." (Rabbi Lapin. America's Real War . p. 73)

"That America was founded as a Christian nation is beyond debate…we were founded as a Christian nation that took Judeo-Christian principles so much for granted that the founding fathers saw little reasons to state the obvious." (Lapin. Ibid. p. 93)

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Other stuff listed on a website:

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion…are undermining the solid morals, the best security for the duration of free government." ( Carroll. Signer of the Declaration of Independence.)

"Today's widespread relegation of religion to merely something people do only in the privacy of their homes or churches would have been unimaginable to the founders of the republic – even those who personally repudiated orthodox Christian faith." (p. 121. Colson. Ibid.)

"The Founders believed that pluralism survived only within the concept of religious liberty espoused by American Christianity." (p. 33)

"My only hope of salvation is in the infinite transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of his Son upon the Cross. Nothing but his blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come quickly!" ( Rush, Signer of the Declaration, The Autobiography of Rush – W. Corner, editor. 1948.)

"Our Founders never envisioned that the First Amendment would become a weapon to excise Christian or traditional religious expressions from the public arena." ( Barton. Original Intent. p. 150)

"An early House Judiciary Committee affirmed the Founders' lack of pluralistic intent when it declared: ' Christianity…was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.'" (B. F. . The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the Unites States. Philadelphia: Childs. 1864.)

"The Founders understood that Biblical values formed the basis of the republic and that the republic would be destroyed if the people's knowledge of those values should ever be lost." (Barton. Ibid. p. 337)

"There must be religion. When that ligament is torn, society is disjointed and its members perish. The nation is exposed to foreign violence and domestic convulsion." (Gouverneur . Signer of the Constitution. Sept. 4, 1816.)

"There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost and religious liberty preserved entire." ( Witherspoon. May 17, 1776 at Princeton.)

"I have been alternately called an aristocrat and a democrat. I am now neither. I am a Christocrat…He alone who created and redeemed man is qualified to govern him." ( Rush. Signer of the Declaration of Independence; served in the Presidential administrations of , Jefferson, and Madison.)

"At the time of the adoption of the Constitution…the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the State so far as such encouragement was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience and the freedom of religious worship." (Supreme Court Justice ph Story. 2 Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States 593.)

"It is not the American tradition for Christians to stay out of politics. Reverend Witherspoon was teacher of Presidents, member of the Continental Congress, and signer of the Declaration of Independence. A majority of the delegates to the Constitutional Convention were professing Christians, many had theological training, and at least one had been a licensed preacher. At least 44 of the delegates to the various state ratifying conventions were ordained ministers." ( Eidsmoe. Ibid. p. 408.)

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this, it connected in one indissoluble bond, principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." ( Quincy . July 4, 1821)

"Whereas we all came into these parts of America with one and the same end and aim, namely, to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ." (The New England Confederation. May 19, 1643.)

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." (President . Military Address – October 11, 1798.)

"We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God." ( Madison.)

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interests of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." ( Jay. Supreme Court Chief Justice of the United States. Oct. 12, 1816.)

"Whatever makes men good Christians, makes them good citizens." ( Webster.)

"'The Christian Constitutional Society,' its object to be first: the support of the Christian religion; second: the support of the United States.""( Hamilton. 1802. Signer and ratifier of the Constitution.)

"The name of American…with slight shades of difference, you have same religion, manners, habits and political principles…Of all the dispositions and habits which led to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports." ( Washington. Sept. 19, 1796. Washington's Farewell Address to the nation.)

"Let my neighbor once persuade himself that there is no God, and he will soon pick my pocket, and break not only my leg but my neck. If there be no God, there is no law, no future account; government then is ordinance of man only, and we cannot be subject to conscience sake." ( Linn . Chaplain of the House of Representatives in 1789.)

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." ( Jay. Oct. 12, 1816. First Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court.)

"Through most of our history as a nation, Christianity was the dominant religion. At independence, the Founding Fathers declared a national day of prayer and thanksgiving – a holiday we still celebrate." (Chuck Colson. Dance of Deception. p. 131)

"We have been told over and over that the Founding Fathers were Deists and skeptics. Those who make this claim seldom produce proof for the assertion. Frequently they cite no sources at all." ( Amos. The Christian and American Law. p. 84)

"Two political-science professors, Lutz and Hyneman, conducted a detailed study of political writings from the founding period of American history, 1760-1805…they studied these closely for the purpose of identifying quotations…where (the framers) derived their ideas…34% was the Bible." ( Eidsmoe. The Christian and American Law. p. 84)

"The late Dr. M. E. Bradford of the University of Dallas undertook a detailed study of the 55 delegates to the Convention and concluded that at most only three or four of them were Deists. The vast majority were professing Christians and actively affiliated with Christian churches." ( Eidsmoe. The Christian and American Law. p. 85)

"I believe no one can read the history of our country without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the Saviour have from the beginning been our guiding geniuses…the same objective is present; a Christian land governed by Christian perspectives." (Earl Warren. Former Governor of California and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Time magazine. Feb. 15, 1954. p. 49.)

"Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith…" (The Mayflower Compact)

"Of the 56 men who signed the nation's birth certificate, definitely 50, maybe 52, were Christians." (Dr. M. E. Bradford. A Worthy Company. University of Dallas.)

"The Constitution of the United States, declared the skeptical historian H.G. Wells, is 'indubitably Christian.'" (p. 71)

"If the founders of the new nation intended this to be a secular state, then why did they, when governing, perform so many religious acts which were officially part of the government? (p. 73)

"Religion, morality and knowledge being essential to good government and the happiness of mankind…" (Northwest Ordinance of 1787) (p. 73)

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." ( Quincy . Quoted in Verna M. Hall's The Christian History of the Constitution of the United States. 1966.)

"The Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth and laid the corner stone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity." ( Quincy . An Oration Delivered Before the Inhabitants of th4e Town of Newburyport at their Request on the 61st Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. 1837. p. 5-6.)

"America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scripture." (President Woodrow )

"The foundations of our society and of our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible, that it would be difficult to support them, if faith in these teachings should cease to be practically universal in this country." (President Calvin Coolidge)

"Our Founding Fathers established our fledgling nation upon a central belief in a Supreme Power, and they based the government of this republic upon Judeo-Christian principles. Today, Christians are being shocked (rightfully so) by court decisions, legislative actions, and public policies which are brazenly antagonistic to moral (and Biblical) values." (Vernon McLellan. The Great American Arena! p. 29)

Here is an article from a Jewish scholar who produces some great lectures and hosts on radio:

http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelmedved/2007/10/03/the_founders_intended_a_christian,_not_secular,_society/page/full/

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

<image.jpg>

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 22:42:03 -0700

To: Abrahamson

Cc: "Dr. Vern Saboe" , 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs >

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

- Can you give some reference for your debunking the deist argument?

M Kalb MS DC

Author of Winning at Aging

www.winningataging.com <http://www.winningataging.com>

Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach

www.DrKalb.com <http://www.DrKalb.com>

Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

They were not.

And may God strike you down for saying so.

In a brotherly way, of course!

Smite. Smite. Smite.

Actually, the Diest argument has been pretty thoroughly debunked.

It sort of defines God as a distant being who formed the world and sent it off spinning on its own.

The Judeo-christian God that the founders believed in was a real time father who loves his children and is involved in their lives in a very complicated way.

He invented time so he gets to be everywhere and every when simultaneously.

Sort of like us being able to hold a videotape of a movie with the beginning, middle, and end in hand while the characters have to live out the tape as it goes.

DVDs are more complicated.

But I remember what my old Dad used to say [in discussions] like these:

He’d say, "What the h*ll are you doing in the bathroom day and night?

Why don't you get out of there and give someone else a chance?"

<image.jpg>

--

E. Abrahamson, D.C.

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com <http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com/>

<image.jpg>

>

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:14:40 -0700

To: "Dr. Vern Saboe" >

Cc: Sears >, 'oregondcs DC'S' <oregondcs <x-msg://177/oregondcs > >

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Mates - Strictly speaking this nation was founded by "Deists" not "Christians."

I just copied this from the Deist entry in Wikipedia:

Deism in the United States

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:_Paine.jpg>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:_Paine.jpg>

Paine

In the United States <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States> , Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution> . American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States> , who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Jefferson, lin, Cornelius Harnett <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Harnett> , Gouverneur <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouverneur_> , and Hugh on <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_on> . Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.

Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include Madison <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Madison> , possibly Hamilton <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Hamilton> , Ethan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_> ,[44] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-43> and Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).

A major contributor was Elihu Palmer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elihu_Palmer> (1764–1806), who wrote the "Bible" of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York".

In the United States there is controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[45] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-44> [46] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-45> Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of lin, Jefferson, and Washington <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Washington> .[47] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-46> [48] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-47> [49] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-48>

lin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist. My arguments perverted some others, particularly and Ralph; but each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting 's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho' it might be true, was not very useful."[50] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-49> [51] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-50> lin also wrote that "the Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc'd in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man.[52] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-51> He later stated, in the Constitutional Convention, that "the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men."[53] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-52>

For his part, Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers> with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he is not known to have called himself a deist, generally referring to himself as a Unitarian <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism> . In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Morals_of_Jesus_of_Nazareth> , but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Christ story. However, Frazer, following the lead of Sydney Ahlstrom <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Ahlstrom> , characterizes Jefferson as not a Deist but a "theistic rationalist" <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_rationalism> , because Jefferson believed in God's continuing activity in human affairs.[54] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-53> [55] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-54> Frazer cites Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, where he wrote, "I tremble" at the thought that "God is just," and he warned of eventual "supernatural influence" to abolish the scourge of slavery.[56] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-55> [57] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#cite_note-56>

M Kalb MS DC

Author of Winning at Aging

www.winningataging.com <http://www.winningataging.com> <http://www.winningataging.com <http://www.winningataging.com/> >

Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach

www.DrKalb.com <http://www.DrKalb.com> <http://www.DrKalb.com <http://www.DrKalb.com/> >

The point is that this nation was founded on Christianity we are indeed a “Christian nation” and as a free people all Americans (unlike many others) are free to worship whatever belief system or religion we choose. I am simply pointing out a historical truth about the wonderful country we have the privilege of living in… blessings, Vern

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com <http://www.drvernsaboe.com> <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/>

From: oregondcs <x-msg://177/oregondcs > [mailto:oregondcs ] On Behalf Of Sears

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:08 AM

To: Dr. Vern Saboe

Cc: 'oregondcs DC'S'

Subject: Re: FW: OT...OT...OT....A Walk for the President

Dear Uncle Vern,

It's deeply saddening, frightening for humanity, and spiritually immature to assume that Christianity is the sole dawning point of the light of God. Are we not all leaves of the same tree?

E Pluribus Unum http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201103/e-pluribus-unum-becomes-controversial

Best regards,

Sears, DC, IAYT

1218 NW 21st Ave

Portland, Oregon 97209

Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion…

-----

Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.

915 19th Ave SE

Albany, OR 97322

phone:

e-mail: vern@...

website: www.drvernsaboe.com <http://www.drvernsaboe.com> <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/>

From: Rome Hanning

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PM

To: ;

Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President

..

A good walk for all of us. Very interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY

[Guest guest]

Good one . Ok, sorry I usually resist this but the link below sent to me by my old orthopedic buddy and proud veteran and after viewing it I just had to forward it to the list serve our nation’s future is just too important the experiment is over….just my opinion… -----Vern Saboe, Jr, DC., DACAN., FICC., DABFP., FACO.915 19th Ave SEAlbany, OR 97322phone: e-mail: vern@... website: www.drvernsaboe.com <http://www.drvernsaboe.com> <http://www.drvernsaboe.com/> From: Rome Hanning Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:47 PMTo: ;Subject: Fw: A Walk for the President.A good walk for all of us. Very

interesting.

good, with a wonderful surprise at the end. http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FKhVnAgt0EY